2020 the battle of the septuagenarians - Trump vs Biden, Part 2

LessOutragePlz

mcmoustache wrote: »

I don't know where you're getting that.

Regardless, it's clear that you'll just continue to redefine what you consider to be a criminal to avoid having Trump fit that definition. That's your right, childish and illogical as it may be.

I assume you can be held to that definition in future conversations?

Yes of course once he is convicted of a crime in a court he will be a criminal, until then he is not a criminal IMO.

ELM327

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Ever hear of Schrodinger's cat?

Yes. We in fact have a longhaired persian called Schrodinger.


Unfortunately he doesnt make the law.

ELM327

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

Yes of course once he is convicted of a crime in a court he will be a criminal, until then he is not a criminal IMO.

No need for the IMO, what you have stated is determined to be correct by statute.

Penn

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

So your basically saying that a person is not innocent until proven guilty?

And that a crime has been committed but there isn't enough evidence to prove it.

Tell me this: Who decides that a person is guilty of a crime even when there isn't enough evidence to prove it?

I'm saying "Innocent until proven guilty" doesn't mean what you think it does. It relates to ensuring a fair trial.

Again, if I punched you in the face, it doesn't mean I haven't punched you in the face until it's been proven in a court of law, and that if there isn't enough evidence to convict me and I'm found not guilty, it doesn't mean I didn't punch you in the face.

To bring it back to Trump rather than go further down this rabbit hole, the number of criminal investigations he's currently subject to, an unindicted co-conspirator to, and fighting to prevent release of evidence for.... I think it's a pretty safe bet to say he's guilty of something, and his position as POTUS is helping him fight them (especially with Barr on his side).

mcmoustache

ELM327 wrote: »

You are not a criminal until you are tried and convicted by a jury of your peers. The law is pretty clear and unanimous in most western countries about this. The US (and Ireland for that matter) is no exception.

That's the definition used by the State and with good reason.

Among humans, the definition is closer to "someone who committed a crime". If some scumbag robs a shop, a human considers them a criminal at that point. The State on the other hand can only do this after a process.

By your strict definition, many of the gangsters in this country and abroad aren't criminals. It's fine to believe that but not particularly useful.

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

You are not a criminal until you are tried and convicted by a jury of your peers. The law is pretty clear and unanimous in most western countries about this. The US (and Ireland for that matter) is no exception.

You can be a criminal, you're just not a convicted criminal. Trump does have a history and pattern of criminality, he just used wealth to avoid outright convictions.

mcmoustache

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

Yes of course once he is convicted of a crime in a court he will be a criminal, until then he is not a criminal IMO.

You're thinking of the state's point of view. In the eyes of the state, you aren't a criminal until you've been tried and found guilty. There are good reasons for that.

For humans, you are a criminal if you commit crimes.

Carfacemandog

ELM327 wrote: »

You are not a criminal until you are tried and convicted by a jury of your peers. The law is pretty clear and unanimous in most western countries about this. The US (and Ireland for that matter) is no exception.

This is a bit of a joke given you were literally calling for protesters to be shot on sight earlier in these protests for entering the house of a man who had invited them into his home.

Quin_Dub

Is Hilary Clinton a criminal??

LessOutragePlz

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Is Hilary Clinton a criminal??

No because she wasn't convicted of a crime.

duploelabs

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

Yes of course once he is convicted of a crime in a court he will be a criminal, until then he is not a criminal IMO.

We was an unnamed indicted co-conspirator in the southern district of new york in the trial of Michael Cohen, the fact that he's president meant that he escaped punishment.
That's pretty much black and white for you

namloc1980

Donald Trump said yesterday that people should vote twice (once by mail and once in person) to somehow test the system. He said this in North Carolina where it is a felony to induce others to vote more than once:

§ 163-275. Certain acts declared felonies.
Any person who shall, in connection with any primary, general or special election held in this State, do any of the acts or things declared in this section to be unlawful, shall be guilty of a Class I felony. It shall be unlawful:
- For any person with intent to commit a fraud to register or vote at more than one precinct or more than one time, or to induce another to do so, in the same primary or election, or to vote illegally at any primary or election;

https://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/ByChapter/Chapter_163.html

If a Democratic candidate came out and said that the conservative media and Trumpists would lose their absolute minds over it. And here we have the President of the US encouraging people to vote twice.

LessOutragePlz

namloc1980 wrote: »

Donald Trump said yesterday that people should vote twice (once by mail and once in person) to somehow test the system. He said this in North Carolina where it is a felony to induce others to vote more than once:

§ 163-275. Certain acts declared felonies.
Any person who shall, in connection with any primary, general or special election held in this State, do any of the acts or things declared in this section to be unlawful, shall be guilty of a Class I felony. It shall be unlawful:
- For any person with intent to commit a fraud to register or vote at more than one precinct or more than one time, or to induce another to do so, in the same primary or election, or to vote illegally at any primary or election;

https://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/ByChapter/Chapter_163.html

If a Democratic candidate came out and said that the conservative media and Trumpists would lose their absolute minds over it. And here we have the President of the US encouraging people to vote twice.

It's a good way of finding out if the postal system is fit for purpose because, if they caught voting a second time then we'll know that we can trust the postal voting system and if they don't well........... you can come to your own conclusion on that.

namloc1980

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

It's a good way of finding out if the postal system is fit for purpose because, if they caught voting a second time then we'll know that we can trust the postal voting system and if they don't well........... you can come to your own conclusion on that.

The President should not be encouraging people to engage in voter fraud to break the law and indeed breaking it himself to "test the system". There is no evidence at all of widespread systemic voter fraud by mail in. None. In fact there is more evidence that of what voter fraud does occur (which is very low) it is in person voting: people showing up twice to vote by going to different polling stations or voter impersonation etc. Voter suppresion is a much larger issue in the US than voter fraud.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2020/06/02/low-rates-of-fraud-in-vote-by-mail-states-show-the-benefits-outweigh-the-risks/

I presume from your above post that you think it is perfectly acceptable for the President of the United States to encourage people to commit voter fraud? Isn't he the Law & Order President. Encouraging people to break the law doesn't tally with that does it.

Quin_Dub

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

It's a good way of finding out if the postal system is fit for purpose because, if they caught voting a second time then we'll know that we can trust the postal voting system and if they don't well........... you can come to your own conclusion on that.

Your honor , I only held up that corner shop at gun point to test the effectiveness of the Police response times and the efficiencies of the judicial system.It was not my intent to actually commit a crime.

If no one caught me I would of course have brought back the money. It's just resting in my account.

Also , when I told all my friends to do the same they to, were just testing the effectiveness of the system.

FFS.

namloc1980 wrote: »

The President should not be encouraging people to engage in voter fraud to break the law and indeed breaking it himself to "test the system". There is no evidence at all of widespread systemic voter fraud by mail in. None. In fact there is more evidence that of what voter fraud does occur (which is very low) it is in person voting: people showing up twice to vote by going to different polling stations or voter impersonation etc.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2020/06/02/low-rates-of-fraud-in-vote-by-mail-states-show-the-benefits-outweigh-the-risks/

I presume from your above post that you think it is perfectly acceptable for the President of the United States to encourage people to commit voter fraud? Isn't he the Law & Order President. Encouraging people to break the law doesn't tally with that does it.

In fact when asked by a Judge to provide evidence of said "Rampant fraud" in court , they were unable to provide a SINGLE EXAMPLE of voter fraud relating to mail-in voting , not one.

mcmoustache

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

It's a good way of finding out if the postal system is fit for purpose because, if they caught voting a second time then we'll know that we can trust the postal voting system and if they don't well........... you can come to your own conclusion on that.

That's quite impressive. You really will just believe whatever Trump says.

ELM327

Carfacemandog wrote: »

This is a bit of a joke given you were literally calling for protesters to be shot on sight earlier in these protests for entering the house of a man who had invited them into his home.

They were caught in the act of actively committing a crime though.

osarusan

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

He didn't really believe that Obama wasn't an American citizen he was just showing us how easy it is to manipulate the media and get them talking about a story that he created.

Jesus that's one of the worst, most stupid, most contorted defences of something Trump said I've ever seen on boards, and there have been some serious contortions before.

Timberrrrrrrr

osarusan wrote: »

Jesus that's one of the worst, most stupid, most contorted defences of something Trump said I've ever seen on boards, and there have been some serious contortions before.

When they talk about Trump derangement syndrome its posts like his that make me believe some Trump supporters are certainy deranged in their undying support for him no matter what.

Danzy

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

When they talk about Trump derangement syndrome its posts like his that make me believe some Trump supporters are certainy deranged in their undying support for him no matter what.

At the very least there is little difference between the very anti Trump and very pro Trump sides.

LessOutragePlz

mcmoustache wrote: »

That's quite impressive. You really will just believe whatever Trump says.

I believe him because he has delivered on his promise of Making America Great Again so he has given me no reason to doubt him and his ability to continue to Make America Great.

mcmoustache

ELM327 wrote: »

They were caught in the act of actively committing a crime though.

So, are you now saying that someone caught in the act of committing a crime is a criminal, even if they have not been found guilty?

Timberrrrrrrr

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

I believe him because he has delivered on his promise of Making America Great Again so he has given me no reason to doubt him and his ability to continue to Make America Great.

If he has made America great again

Why does he want to make America great again.....again?

mcmoustache

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

I believe him because he has delivered on his promise of Making America Great Again so he has given me no reason to doubt him and his ability to continue to Make America Great.

Ah. So that NPC meme from last year was projection too. Who'd have thunk.

LessOutragePlz

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

If he has made America great again

Why does he want to make America great again.....again?

It's a continual process he's building on the great work that he has done over the last 4 years.

It's open to interpretation some would say he has made America Great others would say he can continue to Make America Great.

Billy Mays

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

Not everyone wants to see them since some people don't care about them as long as he keeps his promise of Making America Great Again.

He didn't really believe that Obama wasn't an American citizen he was just showing us how easy it is to manipulate the media and get them talking about a story that he created.

Another Trumper with telepathic powers

Amazing

Carfacemandog

ELM327 wrote: »

They were caught in the act of actively committing a crime though.

They were entering the house of a man who literally invited them into his house to escape rear gassing. You wanted them shot on sight for the action of entering a house with permission.

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/06/02/dc-protesters-welcomed-into-rahul-dubey-home-police/5317028002/
Rahul Dubey let in about 60 protesters around 10 p.m. when he and others were pepper sprayed. Dubey told NBC Washington that the group was "pinned" on his street and that they were "doing nothing wrong other than organizing and fighting to build a future that they want, that I want."

This is exactly what you had to say at the time: "Dirty scumbags of the highest order
Should be shot on sight by the army."

Spare us the nonsense that you care about due process, you very clearly don't.

Quin_Dub

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

It's a continual process he's building on the great work that he has done over the last 4 years.

It's open to interpretation some would say he has made America Great others would say he can continue to Make America Great.

Indeed and some would say he has made America immeasurably worse in every single respect.

In fact 80% of Americans think that the country is on the wrong track and getting worse.

LessOutragePlz

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

It's a good way of finding out if the postal system is fit for purpose because, if they caught voting a second time then we'll know that we can trust the postal voting system and if they don't well........... you can come to your own conclusion on that.

So now you're legitimising the President encouraging criminal behaviour. There doesn't seem to be any real behaviour you won't endorse.

Kidchameleon

ELM327 wrote: »

Apparently to the left, "credibly accused" means convicted.

Except if the accusation is made by Tara Reed, then its fake news