2020 the battle of the septuagenarians - Trump vs Biden, Part 2

Gerry Hatrick

Quin_Dub wrote: »

But you believe your YouTube guys who also use "sources"?

So it's not the use of sources you have an issue with , just the fact that the story they tell doesn't align with your world-view.

Bad News isn't Fake News despite what Trump thinks - Most of the time , it's just bad news (or maybe just unflattering)

Has there been a single negative story about Trump that he hasn't called "fake news" ???

If we were to believe the stance he takes , he has never made an error , never misspoke , never made a wrong choice , nothing.

Just absolute unfiltered perfection , all day every day for his entire life.

That is simply impossible - EVERYBODY makes mistakes , mostly small things , but sometimes Big things. We've all done it and will continue to do it.

But for Donald Trump , everything negative that happens in his world is either "FAKE NEWS" or it was someone elses fault and he bears absolutely no responsibility for it.

Here's a little task for anyone interested.

Try and find a quote (an audio recording for Gerry) of Trump accepting responsibility for something bad that he was involved in.

Doesn't have to be during his time as President , anytime in his career will do.

No point finding anything for me pal, i haven't a horse in this race and if you aren't a voter in the states either do you.

I would have liked to see the Democrats put forward a decent candidate though to challange Trump.

Igotadose

Gerry Hatrick wrote: »

No point finding anything for me pal, i haven't a horse in this race and if you aren't a voter in the states either do you.

I would have liked to see the Democrats put forward a decent candidate though to challange Trump.

Joe Biden. As someone with a horse in this race, I'm thrilled with Biden as a candidate. #BIDEN2020

Timberrrrrrrr

Wow!

The resident #IMPOTUS zealots have really doubled down on protecting the cult today!

"He didn't say it, it's fake news"

Shown a tweet where he literally called McCain a loser.

"OK he said it but the rest of the article is a lie"

Shown that the article comes from multiple reputable sources including an ex US marine.

"Yeah well....ermmmmm.... FAKE NEWS, FAKE NEWS, FAKE NEWS"

You would almost pity them now, they are so blinded by the glow from the fake tan that they literally believe #IMPOTUS even when they know he is telling lies!

LessOutragePlz

namloc1980 wrote: »

If you actually read this thread there are very few if any "Biden fan boys and girls" in here. Nobody going to massive lengths to defend him or claim he is brilliant unlike those who are on the Trump train.

So you and others wouldn't vote for Biden in an election against Trump?

namloc1980

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

So you and others wouldn't vote for Biden in an election against Trump?

I'd vote for an inanimate carbon rod over Trump.

namloc1980

Gerry Hatrick wrote: »

Although i don't support Trump he has done a lot of good for Americans also and i respect your point of view on him. Well done for sticking to your guns.

Could you list out these things that he has done that are good?

Muahahaha

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

I don't believe the sources, plenty of people out there that hate Trump and don't want to see him get re-elected so there's plenty of motivation out there for "sources" to come up with some fake allegations.

Also the owner of the Atlantic has previously donated to the Democratic party including to Hilary Clinton and Barrack Obama so there's a bit of bias there already.

Politically, Bradley considers himself a centrist. He has contributed to the Democratic Party.[1] In the 2008 U.S. presidential primaries he donated $104,300 to Hillary Clinton and $102,300 to Barack Obama and $69,000 to Mitt Romney

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_G._Bradley#:~:text=Bradley%20(born%201953)%20is%20the,The%20Hotline%2C%20and%20Government%20Executive.

Donald Trump also donated to the Democrats, in fact he has even donated to Kamala Harris but he didnt donate to his Vice President Mike Pence.

mcmoustache wrote: »

Is he saying that he'll swear on a bible or something that he never called John McCain a loser?

Thats literally his favourite book and he likes the Old Testament and the New Testament equally. Just dont ask him to recite his favourite passage because thats very personal and he'll refuse to do it. But its definitely his favourite book, he even likes to hold it upside down

Eric Cartman

namloc1980 wrote: »

I'd vote for an inanimate carbon rod over Trump.

at this point the rod might be more useful than Biden.

I don't think theres anyone here who genuinely believes Donald trump is the greatest president ever that you seem to think people fanboy him as,
but in my book he's certainly better than Joe Biden or Harris.

if the Dems had a decent offering the debate might be easier to make but at present its madness to suggest Biden is an actual strong contender on his own merit.

I don't think Donald trump is a brilliant president, but he's the president America deserves and I think he'll win again in a race where his opposition is a lacklustre offering.

Gerry Hatrick

namloc1980 wrote: »

I'd vote for an inanimate carbon rod over Trump.

So you would vote for Biden so?

dwayneshintzy

Gerry Hatrick, are YOU American? Why are you so confident about how Americans will feel about this election?

Timberrrrrrrr

Eric Cartman wrote: »

at this point the rod might be more useful than Biden.

I don't think theres anyone here who genuinely believes Donald trump is the greatest president ever that you seem to think people fanboy him as,
but in my book he's certainly better than Joe Biden or Harris.

if the Dems had a decent offering the debate might be easier to make but at present its madness to suggest Biden is an actual strong contender on his own merit.

I don't think Donald trump is a brilliant president, but he's the president America deserves and I think he'll win again in a race where his opposition is a lacklustre offering.

Yeah, America deserves a misogynistic, racist, grifter who openly insults the memories of their fallen soldiers and openly lies about it.

dwayneshintzy

Incidentally, I AM an American. Biden wasn't close to my first choice; Bernie Sanders had my vote, and I'd have been happy with Warren after him. I feel Biden is too much of a centrist who's happy to cede to Republicans, and is heavily influenced by corporate interests in many of his policy decisions. Fundamentally I believe he's a decent person though, and he seems willing to bring others into a potential administration who I would hope can influence things (Warren on the economy, for instance).

I've got problems with Biden definitely. In a two horse race though, they're nothing compared to the problems I have with Trump.

LessOutragePlz

namloc1980 wrote: »

Could you list out these things that he has done that are good?

African-American, Hispanic-American, and Asian-American unemployment achieved the lowest rate ever recorded prior to the pandemic.

namloc1980

Eric Cartman wrote: »

at this point the rod might be more useful than Biden.

I don't think theres anyone here who genuinely believes Donald trump is the greatest president ever that you seem to think people fanboy him as,
but in my book he's certainly better than Joe Biden or Harris.

if the Dems had a decent offering the debate might be easier to make but at present its madness to suggest Biden is an actual strong contender on his own merit.

I don't think Donald trump is a brilliant president, but he's the president America deserves and I think he'll win again in a race where his opposition is a lacklustre offering.

I never said this. Why are you saying that?

I actually think Biden will win this. One of the big differences from 2016 is that there are relatively fewer undecideds in all the polls compared to this time around. There was an unknown factor with Trump the last time that middle ground people and independents leaned slightly to Trump plus a lot of people just didn't like Hillary Clinton as a person. Trump is very much a known factor now and the polarization of politics over there has seen most people already decided who they are voting for. Polls also show that Independents are more likely to vote for Biden than Trump this time around - in 2016 it was 50/50.

Biden is a boring candidate but a lot of people are tired of the 4 year continuing circus around Trump - boring sounds good to a lot of people in the middle right now.

https://morningconsult.com/2020-presidential-election-tracker/

namloc1980

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

African-American, Hispanic-American, and Asian-American unemployment achieved the lowest rate ever recorded prior to the pandemic.

What specific policies of Trump's do you attribute this to? Any credit for Obama under whom all these trend lines of downwards unemployment actually started?

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNS14000031

Gerry Hatrick

namloc1980 wrote: »

I never said this. Why are you saying that?

I actually think Biden will win this. One of the big differences from 2016 is that there are relatively fewer undecideds in all the polls compared to this time around. There was an unknown factor with Trump the last time that middle ground people and independents leaned slightly to Trump plus a lot of people just didn't like Hillary Clinton as a person. Trump is very much a known factor now and the polarization of politics over there has seen most people already decided who they are voting for. Polls also show that Independents are more likely to vote for Biden than Trump this time around - in 2016 it was 50/50.

Biden is a boring candidate but a lot of people are tired of the 4 year continuing circus around Trump - boring sounds good to a lot of people in the middle right now.

https://morningconsult.com/2020-presidential-election-tracker/

No jobs sound good to people right now and even the most rabid Biden fans on here have to admit Trump pre the virus brought record numbers of employment to Americans.

The democrats have made a huge error putting forward someone so connected to the Obama era and he will fail just like Clinton. Shame on the dems they should have known better.

LessOutragePlz

namloc1980 wrote: »

What specific policies of Trump's do you attribute this to? Any credit for Obama under whom all these trend lines of downwards unemployment actually started?

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNS14000031

His policy of creating more jobs.

Sure he got the ball rolling but Trump ensured that the downward trend continued by creating more jobs in the economy.

Gerry Hatrick

Eric Cartman wrote: »

at this point the rod might be more useful than Biden.

I don't think theres anyone here who genuinely believes Donald trump is the greatest president ever that you seem to think people fanboy him as,
but in my book he's certainly better than Joe Biden or Harris.

if the Dems had a decent offering the debate might be easier to make but at present its madness to suggest Biden is an actual strong contender on his own merit.

I don't think Donald trump is a brilliant president, but he's the president America deserves and I think he'll win again in a race where his opposition is a lacklustre offering.

The rod would field more questions that's for sure

randd1

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

His policy of creating more jobs.

Sure he got the ball rolling but Trump ensured that the downward trend continued by creating more jobs in the economy.

How? What policies?

LessOutragePlz

randd1 wrote: »

How? What policies?

His tariffs on imported steel helped create more American jobs in the steel industry.

Quin_Dub

Gerry Hatrick wrote: »

No jobs sound good to people right now and even the most rabid Biden fans on here have to admit Trump pre the virus brought record numbers of employment to Americans.

The democrats have made a huge error putting forward someone so connected to the Obama era and he will fail just like Clinton. Shame on the dems they should have known better.

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

His policy of creating more jobs.

Sure he got the ball rolling but Trump ensured that the downward trend continued by creating more jobs in the economy.

He created less jobs than Obama did

It is true that some of the data points hits "all-time highs" because they were already close to those record levels when Trump took over. but in terms of rate of growth etc. Trumps economy is mediocre at best.

By every single metric, Trumps economy grew more slowly than Obamas (or indeed any other President except GWB) in the last 40 years.

Like everything in Trumps life , any claims of success are illusory and overblown.

namloc1980

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

His policy of creating more jobs.

Sure he got the ball rolling but Trump ensured that the downward trend continued by creating more jobs in the economy.

Just to set it out here - African-American unemployment peaked at 19.3% in March 2010 during the global financial crisis. It had reduced to 7.2% in January 2017 when Obama left office which was a 12.1% reduction. Under Trump it reduced to 5.1% just before pandemic hit - a 2.1% reduction since he took office.

I think it's fair to say that Obama got more than the ball rolling. 85% of the reduction since the peak in 2010 happened under Obama.

Penn

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I don't think Donald trump is a brilliant president, but he's the president America deserves

Sadly, I think you might be right. However, I see that as a bad thing rather than good.

Igotadose

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

African-American, Hispanic-American, and Asian-American unemployment achieved the lowest rate ever recorded prior to the pandemic.

And where are they today?

randd1

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

His tariffs on imported steel helped create more American jobs in the steel industry.

And hurt ten times the numbers who required the cheap steel for their business, especially those who's exports relied on cheap steel. It also pretty much made steel based American goods dearer abroad.

LessOutragePlz

Igotadose wrote: »

And where are they today?

Obviously way up due to the global pandemic.

LessOutragePlz

randd1 wrote: »

And hurt ten times the numbers who required the cheap steel for their business, especially those who's exports relied on cheap steel. It also pretty much made steel based American goods dearer abroad.

There's going to be some collateral damage in any trade war but it will be worth it in the long run because it will make the American economy less reliant on China.

Leroy42

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

There's going to be some collateral damage in any trade war but it will be worth it in the long run because it will make the American economy less reliant on China.

Only if the US is prepared to pay higher prices. The reason the US is so reliant on China is that China produces stuff cheaper than the US can.

Are people in the US ready to pay extra? Sure it would lead to more jobs etc, but that was always the case. Globalisation happened because companies wanted to make more profits, not because they had a liking for China.

Wher did Trump source the steel required to build Trump Tower? Where did he get his clothesline produced? China. He didn't do that because he hates America, he did it because it was cheaper.

So far from it all being China's fault, it is actually America's own fault. Eah and every person, to a larger or lessor degree, played their part in it.

mcmoustache

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

There's going to be some collateral damage in any trade war but it will be worth it in the long run because it will make the American economy less reliant on China.

Em, you're aware that the trade deficit to China is higher now than at any time since 2008?

Or did Ben Shapiro forget to mention it?

Or do you just think that buying more from China decreases reliance on China?

randd1

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

There's going to be some collateral damage in any trade war but it will be worth it in the long run because it will make the American economy less reliant on China.

But what happens when all those people lose their jobs?