2020 the battle of the septuagenarians - Trump vs Biden, Part 2

Quin_Dub

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

There's going to be some collateral damage in any trade war but it will be worth it in the long run because it will make the American economy less reliant on China.

How long is this "long run"??

How long will they continue to have to spend Billions of dollars trying to keep American farmers afloat while Trump rattles his sabre with China?

How many farms will simply disappear never to return, during this period before these "in the long run" benefits eventually accrue?

Eric Cartman

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Yeah, America deserves a misogynistic, racist, grifter who openly insults the memories of their fallen soldiers and openly lies about it.

But Joe Biden.

Carfacemandog

Eric Cartman wrote: »

But Joe Biden.

Yes, Joe Biden. He's not great by any stretch but he's clearly the better option to Trump who has also destroyed the economy at this point.

namloc1980

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

There's going to be some collateral damage in any trade war but it will be worth it in the long run because it will make the American economy less reliant on China.

The trade deficit hit a 12 year high in June. Under Trump imports actually increased significantly than under Obama and the trade deficit has widened. "America First"

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/imports

US IMPORTS

LessOutragePlz

mcmoustache wrote: »

Em, you're aware that the trade deficit to China is higher now than at any time since 2008?

Or did Ben Shapiro forget to mention it?

Or do you just think that buying more from China decreases reliance on China?

News to me, hopefully the trade tariffs will help reduce the trade deficit.

LessOutragePlz

randd1 wrote: »

But what happens when all those people lose their jobs?

Hopefully they be able to get jobs in the industry where more jobs will be created.

Gerry Hatrick

Gerry Hatrick wrote: »

They are. As are Biden's fan boys and girls.

Biden is a twat, he is just not as much of a twat as Trump.

randd1

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

Hopefully they be able to get jobs in the industry where more jobs will be created.

What industry?

And why didn't he protect their jobs in the first place?

LessOutragePlz

Quin_Dub wrote: »

How long is this "long run"??

How long will they continue to have to spend Billions of dollars trying to keep American farmers afloat while Trump rattles his sabre with China?

How many farms will simply disappear never to return, during this period before these "in the long run" benefits eventually accrue?

Difficult to answer that really America has been reliant on China for many years so presumably it will take a few years for America to become a lot less reliant on China.

LessOutragePlz

randd1 wrote: »

What industry?

And why didn't he protect their jobs in the first place?

Whatever ever industry will benefit as a result of the trade tariffs.

As I've stated already some collateral damage is inevitable in any trade war.

mcmoustache

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

News to me, hopefully the trade tariffs will help reduce the trade deficit.

Do you think that your strategy for informing yourself might be related to the fact that this was news for you?

Gerry Hatrick

Carfacemandog wrote: »

Yes, Joe Biden. He's not great by any stretch but he's clearly the better option to Trump who has also destroyed the economy at this point.

The virus is Trump's fault?

Okay.

Gerry Hatrick

Deleted User wrote: »

Biden is a twat, he is just not as much of a twat as Trump.

I beg to differ but respect your opinion.

Penn

Gerry Hatrick wrote: »

The virus is Trump's fault?

Okay.

Trump's mishandling of the US response to the virus is Trump's fault, and that has also exacerbated the effect on the economy.

randd1

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

Whatever ever industry will benefit as a result of the trade tariffs.

As I've stated already some collateral damage is inevitable in any trade war.

What industry will benefit from the tariff's? Apart from the steel industry, none have, as the cost of American goods that rely on steel has gone up.

And if the collateral damage means collapsing the economy, or leaving massive amounts of people unemployed?

salmocab

Gerry Hatrick wrote: »

The virus is Trump's fault?

Okay.

Nobody has claimed it was his fault but the handling of it is. He’s the leader. It’s amazing that he claims everything good as his but as soon as something bad happens it’s nothing to do with him.

LessOutragePlz

mcmoustache wrote: »

Do you think that your strategy for informing yourself might be related to the fact that this was news for you?

I can't read up on everything as there isn't enough hours in the day so I try to keep myself as best informed as I can.

Leroy42

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

Difficult to answer that really America has been reliant on China for many years so presumably it will take a few years for America to become a lot less reliant on China.

Reliant is a weird choice of word. The US, almost uniquely, is not reliant on any other country really. It has almost everything it needs within its own borders. Raw materials, finance, knowledge, workforce etc.

So unlike, say Ireland, it is not reliant on countries for oil, or coal, or steel etc.

It could, potentially, be completely self-reliant. It chooses not to be, for a multitude of reason, one of which is that prices from other countries to produce products are lower than in the US.

That will take more a simple trade war to remedy. That will require everyone in society to sign up to higher prices, lower wages, longer working hours, less benefits, less choice etc etc.

namloc1980

Gerry Hatrick wrote: »

No jobs sound good to people right now and even the most rabid Biden fans on here have to admit Trump pre the virus brought record numbers of employment to Americans.

The democrats have made a huge error putting forward someone so connected to the Obama era and he will fail just like Clinton. Shame on the dems they should have known better.

Rabid Biden fans? The projection is unreal.

Trump brought no record numbers of employment to anyone. The positive employment trends started under Obama and continued under Trump until 22 million people became unemployed in the last few months.

Unemployment peaked at 10% across the the board in October 2009 after Obama took office. By the time he left office it was at 4.7% - a reduction of 5.3%. Under Trump it reached a low of 3.5% - a reduction of 1.2% under Trump. Today it currently stands at 10.2% - worse than the worst peak under Obama.

The best you can say is that Trump continued the reduction started and mostly done under Obama only to end up in a worse starting position than Obama. Giving Trump all the credit is very disingenuous.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/UNRATE

Igotadose

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

Hopefully they be able to get jobs in the industry where more jobs will be created.

What's the #IMPOTUS plan for that,?

Carfacemandog

Gerry Hatrick wrote: »

The virus is Trump's fault?

Okay.

Dont you mean this 'hoax' is Trumps fault?

And yes, yes it is.

Leroy42

namloc1980 wrote: »

Rabid Biden fans? The projection is unreal.

Trump brought no record numbers of employment to anyone. The positive employment trends started under Obama continued under Trump until 22 million people became unemployed in the last few months.

Unemployment peaked at 10% across the the board in October 2009 after Obama took office. By the time he left office it was at 4.7% - a reduction of 5.3%. Under Trump it reached a low of 3.5% - a reduction of 1.2%> Today it currently stands at 10.2% - worse than the worst peak under Obama.

The best you can say is that Trump continued the reduction started and mostly done under Obama. Giving Trump all the credit is very disingenuous.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/UNRATE

And one must remember that Trump gave out the biggest corporate tax cut in history, with one of the claims being that it would help allow companies to invest in jobs.

So it is not some miracle, these jobs have been paid for by way of a tax cut, and even after such a tax cut, the job numbers did not see any significant increase in rate

Igotadose

Gerry Hatrick wrote: »

The virus is Trump's fault?

Okay.

Models this am showing over 400k deaths on the US by January. The US response is on Trump

Gerry Hatrick

salmocab wrote: »

Nobody has claimed it was his fault but the handling of it is. He’s the leader. It’s amazing that he claims everything good as his but as soon as something bad happens it’s nothing to do with him.

Deaths per million in the US aren't as bad as Spain, Sweden, Italy, Peru, UK etc...

But yeah it's all Trump's fault.

LessOutragePlz

Igotadose wrote: »

What's the #IMPOTUS plan for that,?

I can't say with 100% certainty what his plan is but my best guess would be for him to continue to create more jobs and stimulate an economic recovery once the pandemic is over

Gerry Hatrick

Igotadose wrote: »

Models this am showing over 400k deaths on the US by January. The US response is on Trump

Projections. The death rate is what at the moment 190k?

salmocab

Gerry Hatrick wrote: »

Deaths per million in the US aren't as bad as Spain, Sweden, Italy, Peru, UK etc...

But yeah it's all Trump's fault.

So your defence is he’s not doing quite as bad as some other countries, namely the ones doing bad. That must be the stupidest defence I’ve ever read.

namloc1980

So we've established the following:

- that the unemployment numbers under this president are much higher than those under Bush / Obama even at the height of the global economic crisis 2008-2011.
- the employment and job creation claimed by Trump was just a continuation of Obama's economic growth and job growth with most of the jobs created under Obama since the economic crisis.
- that Trump created less jobs in his best year than in each of the last 3 years under Obama.
- that the US trade deficit has in fact increased under Trump (hitting a 12 year high in June) and imports have also increased - a key promise of his first term was that the deficit would "go away".
- his tarriffs have increased the costs of goods for American consumers and business.

So much #winning!

WrenBoy

when Trump first Implemented Travel restrictions earlier in the pandemic didn't the Dems call him racist and tell people to go visit Chinatown or something like that ? I remember Pelosi did anyway.

Gerry Hatrick

salmocab wrote: »

So your defence is he’s not doing quite as bad as some other countries, namely the ones doing bad. That must be the stupidest defence I’ve ever read.

Where am i defending him? I'm pointing out facts.