2020 the battle of the septuagenarians - Trump vs Biden, Part 2

ELM327

Wanderer78 wrote: »

he could, but he is an absolute dreadful candidate, so maybe not

This we can agree on for sure. I've said it for months, he was a terrible pick by the Dems.

Timberrrrrrrr

mcmoustache wrote: »

It's been a while since I've seen so much hay made from so little.

He got a nomination from some crank and you'd swear that he actually won it.

And hopefully the news that he allowed 200,000+ American people die due to his stupidity will have the NPP committee laughing his nomination out of there.

Wanderer78

ELM327 wrote: »

This we can agree on for sure. I've said it for months, he was a terrible pick by the Dems.

ah shur the dems are a train wreck, but the whole left is also a train wreck, same here

LessOutragePlz

duploelabs wrote: »

What do you think about Trump lying to the american people saying 'it would disappear like a miracle', when in truth (by his own words) he knew how deadly it was

In his own words he didn't want to create a panic, him acknowledging how bad it was that early actually gives credit to the idea that he doesn't believe some of the stuff he says himself on certain occasions.

As some posters such as myself have previously said that he wasn't being serious when he said certain things but, apparently we were "telepathic" according to some posters.

duploelabs

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

In his own words he didn't want to create a panic, him acknowledging how bad it was that early actually gives credit to the idea that he doesn't believe some of the stuff he says himself on certain occasions.

As some posters such as myself have previously said that he wasn't being serious when he said certain things but, apparently we were "telepathic" according to some posters.

Oh so he's joking about it??
Hardly a time to be joking or at least caveat it when you're talking to Bob Woodward

LessOutragePlz

duploelabs wrote: »

Oh so he's joking about it??
Hardly a time to be joking or at least caveat it when you're talking to Bob Woodward

Not joking about it just downplaying the severity to avoid a mass panic among the public. I was referencing other occasions when he has mentioned fairly outlandish things such as the time he supposedly suggested that people inject disinfectant to cure themselves of covid. Some people took him literally on that while others assumed that he wasn't being serious.

Wanderer78

LessOutragePlz wrote:

Not joking about it just downplaying the severity to avoid a mass panic among the public. I was referencing other occasions when he has mentioned fairly outlandish things such as the time he supposedly suggested that people inject disinfectant to cure themselves of covid. Some people took him literally on that while others assumed that he wasn't being serious.

There's a possibility, he actually was being serious, we ll never know for sure, but a head of state has a duty of care to all citizens, this is how not to fulfill this duty

ohnonotgmail

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

Not joking about it just downplaying the severity to avoid a mass panic among the public. I was referencing other occasions when he has mentioned fairly outlandish things such as the time he supposedly suggested that people inject disinfectant to cure themselves of covid. Some people took him literally on that while others assumed that he wasn't being serious.

he downplayed the severity publicly and then acted like there wasn't a problem privately as well. Knowing there is a problem and doing nothing about is a dereliction of his duty as a president.

duploelabs

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

Not joking about it just downplaying the severity to avoid a mass panic among the public. I was referencing other occasions when he has mentioned fairly outlandish things such as the time he supposedly suggested that people inject disinfectant to cure themselves of covid. Some people took him literally on that while others assumed that he wasn't being serious.

So by downplaying it, he knew that by doing so would lead to more deaths which is favourable to causing a (rightful) panic?

Carfacemandog

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

In his own words he didn't want to create a panic

In which case he failed, and failed terribly. In Ireland we had a proper lockdown and a government that was very open and direct about the risks and the precautions needed. As a result, thousands of lives were saved and tens of thousands if not more were prevented from catching the virus. There is a reason Trump apologists stopped comparing Ireland to the US long ago over Covid figures, and it is because we handled the crisis well despite getting hit hard quite early, while the US under Trump's leadership failed utterly despite almost avoiding it entirely at the start outside of NY & NJ.

This is not how you avoid a panic during a pandemic:


This has been yet another example of completely and utterly feckless leadership under Trump brought about by the complete lack of transparency in his government and his repeatedly needing to lie to the public about 'hoaxes and miracles'.

LessOutragePlz

I'm not saying what he did was right but I can understand why he didn't want to create a panic amongst the people.

duploelabs

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

I'm not saying what he did was right but I can understand why he didn't want to create a panic amongst the people.

So by that logic a 'panic' is worse than 180,000+ deaths? is there anything you won't excuse?

Leroy42

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

Not joking about it just downplaying the severity to avoid a mass panic among the public. I was referencing other occasions when he has mentioned fairly outlandish things such as the time he supposedly suggested that people inject disinfectant to cure themselves of covid. Some people took him literally on that while others assumed that he wasn't being serious.

Panic? What sort of panic? What did he think was going to happen?

And it seems odd that a person that was so worried about panic was openly calling for the opening of churches for Easter, calling governors that wanted to lockdown as crazy and openly calling out support for those crying out that being asked to wear a mask was against their rights.

So whilst one could believe he wanted to avoid panic, although that of course was the completely wrong approach as has been proved by other countries and tells you more about his ability to get a serious message across, but then why did he go out of his way to not only downplay it but to call out anyone who tried to get the right things in place?
The calls that he lied to avoid panic simply do not align with his actions.

ohnonotgmail

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

I'm not saying what he did was right but I can understand why he didn't want to create a panic amongst the people.

he did nothing while a virus he knew to be dangerous was spreading around the country. he help rallies while this was going on. he acted contrary to all the best advice on how to behave during a pandemic. and the best you can say is "I'm not saying what he did was right". cult behaviour. god forbid you criticise the dear leader.

Hoop66

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

I'm not saying what he did was right but I can understand why he didn't want to create a panic amongst the people.

Well there's "create a panic amongst the people"

And there's "warn them to take sensible precautions and perhaps slow the rapid spread of a disease that's killed close to 200,00 Americans"

Trump did neither, he prevaricated and played it like a game of favours. Thousands and thousands of Americans have needlessly died because of his inability to manage a crisis.

He has none of the skills necessary to lead, and this is being demonstrated in real time with horrific consequences.

Carfacemandog

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

I'm not saying what he did was right but I can understand why he didn't want to create a panic amongst the people.

It's already been pointed out that he failed utterly at that - by intentionally lying and keeping the public out of the loop he created a bigger panic, by claiming the entire virus was a hoax by his political opponents he created a bigger panic, by facilitating the spread of the virus by hosting large public events he increased the panic, and by encouraging heavily armed protests among his supporters he created a bigger panic.

The truth of the matter is that he didn't want this to impact the pockets of the wealthy in America, and didn't care if he had to kill tens, if not hundreds, of thousands to do so. In doing so he also caused the economy to fall through the floor, with a 32.9% drop in GDP from April-June in the US (Ireland despite lockdown, by comparison had a drop of 6.1%).

He's got some others like Boris and Bolsonaro giving him a good run for his money, but factoring in the resources the US had available to deal with this and the fact that they had months longer to understand and prepare for it before it hit through most of the rest of the country, it's hard to say anyone failed as badly as Trump during the Covid crisis, which largely had to do with his own lying and unwillingness to be open and honest with the people he is supposed to represent.

LessOutragePlz

Carfacemandog wrote: »

It's already been pointed out that he failed utterly at that - by intentionally lying and keeping the public out of the loop he created a bigger panic, by claiming the entire virus was a hoax by his political opponents he created a bigger panic

This is a lie that was created by a dishonest Biden ad that used video manipulation to make it appear that he called the virus a hoax it was fact checked and awarded 4 Pinocchios.

"The Washington Post's fact-checker column awarded four Pinocchios to former Vice President Joe Biden on Friday for a campaign ad that creates a false narrative that does not reflect the event as it occurred."

https://thehill.com/homenews/media/487461-washington-post-fact-checker-biden-ad-hitting-trump-uses-video-manipulation

Timberrrrrrrr

ELM327 wrote: »

How many Nobels have you been nominated for?

None

I also haven't lost in a nomination so I'm doing one better than #IMPOTUS

Timberrrrrrrr

ELM327 wrote: »

Yeah, 47 years in politics but the next 4 is where he really makes the difference :rolleyes:

4 years as president

But yeah, its the next 4 years where really makes the difference :rolleyes:

Leroy42

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

This is a lie that was created by a dishonest Biden ad that used video manipulation to make it appear that he called the virus a hoax it was fact checked and awarded 4 Pinocchios.

"The Washington Post's fact-checker column awarded four Pinocchios to former Vice President Joe Biden on Friday for a campaign ad that creates a false narrative that does not reflect the event as it occurred."

https://thehill.com/homenews/media/487461-washington-post-fact-checker-biden-ad-hitting-trump-uses-video-manipulation

You have it on tape from the great man himself that he wanted to downplay it. Whether you call it a hoax, or simply pretending that it was something not to be too worried about is irrelevant.

And it still doesn't deal with the fact that Trump called many governors out when they wanted to lockdown. He wanted to reopen the churches. He continues to insist that schools should be open.

It doesn't deal with his insistance that the heat would take it away, that it would all be gone soon.

And why, if he is so worried about creating panic, has he been pushing the narrative that Democratic held cities are wastelands of riotors and violence and that a vote for Biden would result in the collapse of the US. Is that not creating panic? So on something that might be seen as looking bad for him, C19, he seemingly cares about panic, but on something that he thinks works in his favour he is all in in creating as much panic as possible.

You seen the problem don't you?

Timberrrrrrrr

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

he downplayed the severity publicly and then acted like there wasn't a problem privately as well. Knowing there is a problem and doing nothing about is a dereliction of his duty as a president.

As he said himself

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/398887965302091776?s=20

ohnonotgmail

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

As he said himself

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/398887965302091776?s=20

There is always a tweet.

Cody montana

I wonder what scandal will break today?

dwayneshintzy

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

This is a lie that was created by a dishonest Biden ad that used video manipulation to make it appear that he called the virus a hoax it was fact checked and awarded 4 Pinocchios.

"The Washington Post's fact-checker column awarded four Pinocchios to former Vice President Joe Biden on Friday for a campaign ad that creates a false narrative that does not reflect the event as it occurred."

https://thehill.com/homenews/media/487461-washington-post-fact-checker-biden-ad-hitting-trump-uses-video-manipulation

What about Trump on tape saying that he's downplaying the virus? Is that proof that he was downplaying it?

Cody montana

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

I'm not saying what he did was right but I can understand why he didn't want to create a panic amongst the people.

A panic?
200 thousand now dead.

Panic may have actually have made people take it seriously.

LessOutragePlz

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

What about Trump on tape saying that he's downplaying the virus? Is that proof that he was downplaying it?

I'm not disputing that he downplayed the viurs, that poster said he called it a hoax and I was merely pointing out that, that claim was fact checked and proven to be false as video manipulation was used in a Biden campaign ad which claimed that Trump called the virus a hoax.

https://thehill.com/homenews/media/487461-washington-post-fact-checker-biden-ad-hitting-trump-uses-video-manipulation

rossie1977

Cody montana wrote: »

A panic?
200 thousand now dead.

Panic may have actually have made people take it seriously.

200k is only the government reported numbers. Real figures likely multiple times that.

LessOutragePlz

rossie1977 wrote: »

200k is only the government reported numbers. Real figures likely multiple times that.

What are these "real figures" and who would provide them?

Carfacemandog

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

This is a lie that was created by a dishonest Biden ad that used video manipulation to make it appear that he called the virus a hoax it was fact checked and awarded 4 Pinocchios.

"The Washington Post's fact-checker column awarded four Pinocchios to former Vice President Joe Biden on Friday for a campaign ad that creates a false narrative that does not reflect the event as it occurred."

https://thehill.com/homenews/media/487461-washington-post-fact-checker-biden-ad-hitting-trump-uses-video-manipulation

The full quote, with completed and unedited video for it, starting at 3:50:

"Now the Democrats are politicising the coronavirus, you know that right? Coronavirus. They are politicising it. We did one of the great jobs. You say "how is President Trump doing?" They go "oh, not good, not good". They have no clue, they don't have any clue - they can't even count their votes in Iowa, they can't even. No, they can't. They can't count their votes! One of my people came up to me and said "Mr. President, they tried to beat you on Russia, Russia, Russia, that didn't work out too well. They couldn't do it. They tried the impeachment hoax. That was on a perfect conversation. They tried anything, they tried it over and over. They tried anything, they've been doing it since you got in. It's all turning, they lost, it's all turning, think of it, think of it. And this is their new hoax". But you know we did something pretty amazing, we have 15 people in this massive country, and because of the fact that we went early, we went early, we could have had a lot more than that*, we are doing great. Our country is doing so great."

So either he is saying that they are claiming coronavirus is a hoax, or else he is admitting the reports about Russia and Ukraine were accurate, and that the only 'hoax' about them was the Democrats didn't just let them carry on unquestioned.

*The current number as I type this is 6,550,637, which is 436,709 times more than it was when he said this by the way.

---

I can also only assume from your inability to address my other points that you agree Trump intentionally lied and kept the public out of the loop on the virus, knowingly and intentionally facilitated the spread of the virus by hosting large public and encouraged heavily armed protests among his supporters against lockdown measures which caused further spreading of the virus, all of which helped increase panic and show his claim that he wanted to avoid that as being something he either lied about, or absolutely and completely failed at doing.

Leroy42

The use of the term 'downplay' is disingenuous at best. He didn't merely downplay it, it said it was all nothing, would soon disappear, he suported those that wanted to be 'liberated' from governors looking to action action. He allowed Fauci to be openly called out. He questioned the science. He has questioned the numbers. He has reduced testing to hide case numbers.

He didn't downplay it, he actively went out of his way to make it look like it was nothing to worry about.

He even held indoor rallies, despite knowing that the virus was a major risk but made sure any tickets were obtained on the basis of people signing away any responsibility on the campaign.