2020 the battle of the septuagenarians - Trump vs Biden, Part 2

gmisk

Cody montana wrote: »

I wonder what scandal will break today?

Will this one from y'day do?
DHS told to stop digging into possible russian interference nothing to see here...
https://twitter.com/axios/status/1303771929149673478?s=19

Carfacemandog

rossie1977 wrote: »

200k is only the government reported numbers. Real figures likely multiple times that.

When the official figures were at 155,000 the excess mortality numbers were a little above 200,000 which would mean about an additional 25%.

However when our deaths were at about 1,730 our excess mortality was at something like 950 if I recall, as less people being out and about meant less deaths being caused by other reasons.

The US did not have anywhere near as tight or unified a national lockdown measure as we did (owed in no small part to their woeful national leadership, while Varadkar for all his other flaws did very well in this regard over here) so the discrepancy would not be as high, but it is likely considerably above the '25% more than reported' figure.

Quin_Dub

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

I'm not saying what he did was right but I can understand why he didn't want to create a panic amongst the people.

Not creating a panic is saying.

"This is really serious , but rest assured the full weight of the United States Federal Government is here to do whatever is necessary to get us through this"

You know , the sort of thing that pretty much every other World leader said at least a variation of in March/April.

It is not any of the things that Trump said.

ohnonotgmail

gmisk wrote: »

Will this one from y'day do?
DHS told to stop digging into possible russian interference nothing to see here...
https://twitter.com/axios/status/1303771929149673478?s=19

that was another of yesterdays scandals

namloc1980

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

that was another of yesterdays scandals

Trump has multiple scandals in a given day, any one of which would sink another politician.

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

Yeah, 47 years in politics but the next 4 is where he really makes the difference :rolleyes:

Versus man who claimed the global pandemic was a hoax and repeatedly tried to downplay it. Now verging on 200k dead.

MadYaker

American democracy is essentially dead if such a large % of the voting population will no longer hold their leaders to account. That’s the whole point of democracy. Might as well just go back to a monarchy.

PropJoe10

MadYaker wrote: »

American democracy is essentially dead if such a large % of the voting population will no longer hold their leaders to account. That’s the whole point of democracy. Might as well just go back to a monarchy.

Well, it will be a monarchy if Trump wins again in November. If he does, he'll no longer have to answer to anyone. Expect plenty of executive orders in order to get around Congress.

LessOutragePlz

MadYaker wrote: »

American democracy is essentially dead if such a large % of the voting population will no longer hold their leaders to account. That’s the whole point of democracy. Might as well just go back to a monarchy.

Just imagine Trump gets re-elected, then Don jr. runs for president gets 2 terms and then another one of his children runs maybe even Ivanka becomes the first female president.

Wanderer78

MadYaker wrote:

American democracy is essentially dead if such a large % of the voting population will no longer hold their leaders to account. That’s the whole point of democracy. Might as well just go back to a monarchy.

Twas long gone before trump stuck his beak in, he's just making sure of it

Igotadose

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Not creating a panic is saying.

"This is really serious , but rest assured the full weight of the United States Federal Government is here to do whatever is necessary to get us through this"

You know , the sort of thing that pretty much every other World leader said at least a variation of in March/April.

It is not any of the things that Trump said.

And, lest we forget, all those other countries save a few even more incompetently run places, like the UK and Brazil, did better. Even Sweden, with limited lockdowns, did better. Even *Rwanda and New Zealand* did better.

Just want to beat my head against the wall over the repetitive nonsense you see here, which is worlds better than Facebook. Great place to learn to hate people you once might've liked.

Wanderer78

LessOutragePlz wrote:

Just imagine Trump gets re-elected, then Don jr. runs for president gets 2 terms and then another one of his children runs maybe even Ivanka becomes the first female president.

Can't ever see that happening, they'd be after nuking themselves by then

Penn

PropJoe10 wrote: »

Well, it will be a monarchy if Trump wins again in November. If he does, he'll no longer have to answer to anyone. Expect plenty of executive orders in order to get around Congress.

It's why I think the battle for the Senate is more important than Trump/Biden. If the GOP keep the Senate, they'll either let Trump do whatever the hell he wants, or they'll block Biden even more than they did with Obama.

LessOutragePlz

Igotadose wrote: »

And, lest we forget, all those other countries save a few even more incompetently run places, like the UK and Brazil, did better. Even Sweden, with limited lockdowns, did better. Even *Rwanda and New Zealand* did better.

Just want to beat my head against the wall over the repetitive nonsense you see here, which is worlds better than Facebook. Great place to learn to hate people you once might've liked.

Brazil and the UK haven't done better though when you compare the deaths per million neither has Sweden.

USA deaths per million is 576.48 while in Brazil it is 604.72 in the UK is it 612.70 and in Sweden it is 578.46.

You won't hear that though when all people focus on is deaths comparing deaths per million is a more meaningful comparison as to how countries have handled it. As such America's handling of the pandemic is not terrible compared to those 3 countries.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/total-covid-deaths-per-million?tab=table&year=latest&time=2020-01-31..latest

Igotadose

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

Brazil and the UK haven't done better though when you compare the deaths per million neither has Sweden.

USA deaths per million is 576.48 while in Brazil it is 604.72 in the UK is it 612.70 and in Sweden it is 578.46.

You won't hear that though when all people focus on is deaths comparing deaths per million is more meaningful comparison as to how countries have handled it. As such America's handling of the pandemic is not terrible compared to those 3 countries.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/total-covid-deaths-per-million?tab=table&year=latest&time=2020-01-31..latest

Ehh, you're confirming what I said. USA datehs are lower than Brazil and the UK, and (slightly) higher than Sweden.

But, 'not terrible' is pretty low standard. Why can't the US do as well as some of the other countries with large populations? Like, say, South Korea? Japan? China?

Muahahaha

Al Jazeera have published a good timeline of Trumps response to the coronavirus and what he said and when, its an interesting read
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/04/timeline-trump-administration-coronavirus-actions-200414131306831.html

March 17: Trump asks workforce to stay home, says he's always known it was a pandemic

During a news conference, Trump asks "everyone to work at home, if possible, postpone unnecessary travel, and limit social gatherings to no more than 10 people".
That same day, Trump states he has "always known this is a real, this is a pandemic. I've felt it was a pandemic long before it was called a pandemic".

Note: The World Health Organization declared the coronavirus a pandemic on March 11. Trump had previously stated in February the heat could limit the spread of the virus and make it "go away" by April.

mcmoustache

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

Brazil and the UK haven't done better though when you compare the deaths per million neither has Sweden.

USA deaths per million is 576.48 while in Brazil it is 604.72 in the UK is it 612.70 and in Sweden it is 578.46.

You won't hear that though when all people focus on is deaths comparing deaths per million is a more meaningful comparison as to how countries have handled it. As such America's handling of the pandemic is not terrible compared to those 3 countries.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/total-covid-deaths-per-million?tab=table&year=latest&time=2020-01-31..latest

95% of countries have a lower deaths-per-million number. Like I said before, if this was the English Premier League, the US would be sitting in the relegation zone.

salmocab

Well I see it’s once again circled back to America didn’t do as bad as some other countries with coronavirus which ranks as one of the stupidest things that can be said. Not being quite as bad as others that did terrible is not a good thing.

Regards his not causing panic thing that would be admirable if he had then done something but he didn’t he tried not to cause panic and then pretended it wasn’t too bad because he only had one worry in it all and that was how it would affect him and his position. People died in their thousands because he didn’t do what leaders do, lead!

LessOutragePlz

mcmoustache wrote: »

95% of countries have a lower deaths-per-million number. Like I said before, if this was the English Premier League, the US would be sitting in the relegation zone.

I was just pointing out the fact that a poster claimed that the UK, Brazil and Sweden had "done better" than America in their response to the pandemic while the deaths per million figures show that this is not true at all.

Snake Plisken

Very true Mr President.
Also Trump closed flights from China back in January and was called racist by Democrats media etc, sure don't we all remember Nancy and the mayor and Governor of New York inviting people down to Chinatown to celebrate Chinese New Year without masks. Woodward should be held accountable for not releasing the info if he thought there was any issue with what Trump said

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1304042651147284480?s=19

irelandrover

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

I was just pointing out the fact that a poster claimed that the UK, Brazil and Sweden had "done better" than America in their response to the pandemic while the deaths per million figures show that this is not true at all.

They didn't claim that, they claimed places other than Brazil and the UK did better.

mcmoustache

Snake Plisken wrote: »

Very true Mr President.
Also Trump closed flights from China back in January and was called racist by Democrats media etc, sure don't we all remember Nancy and the mayor and Governor of New York inviting people down to Chinatown to celebrate Chinese New Year without masks. Woodward should be held accountable for not releasing the info if he thought there was any issue with what Trump said

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1304042651147284480?s=19

Is he really going to go with the "He should have stopped me" defence.

Think about it for a moment.

Leroy42

Snake Plisken wrote: »

Very true Mr President.
Also Trump closed flights from China back in January and was called racist by Democrats media etc, sure don't we all remember Nancy and the mayor and Governor of New York inviting people down to Chinatown to celebrate Chinese New Year without masks. Woodward should be held accountable for not releasing the info if he thought there was any issue with what Trump said

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1304042651147284480?s=19

You don't think Trump should have told the American people himself? Or anyone within the WH?

But this journalist, he is the one to blame?

duploelabs

Snake Plisken wrote: »

Very true Mr President.
Also Trump closed flights from China back in January and was called racist by Democrats media etc, sure don't we all remember Nancy and the mayor and Governor of New York inviting people down to Chinatown to celebrate Chinese New Year without masks. Woodward should be held accountable for not releasing the info if he thought there was any issue with what Trump said

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1304042651147284480?s=19

Closing the airports when the virus is already in the country did the sum of f*ck all except dogwhistle to his base

LessOutragePlz

duploelabs wrote: »

Closing the airports when the virus is already in the country did the sum of f*ck all except dogwhistle to his base

It definitely helped stop the spread of imported cases from China.

Tell me how

Snake Plisken wrote: »

. Woodward should be held accountable for not releasing the info if he thought there was any issue with what Trump said

What an incredible pile of unmitigated BS this is.

That a journalist should be required to keep the President of the US from letting Americans die.

The same President who rants and raves about journalists being fake news.
Imagine how righteously indignant him and the GOP would have been if Woodward had gone to Congress with the info

Can't believe he tweeted that, he's so inept, he's drawing attention to it.

Carfacemandog

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

It definitely helped stop the spread of imported cases from China.

If you had 40 holes in your ceiling and when it started to drizzle, you plugged just one hole while leaving the other 39 untouched... and did nothing else while the drizzle turned torrential and your home flooded, even encouraging other members of the house to bully others to stop trying to stop the rising water levels, resulting in your home becoming one of the most flooded and damaged in the entire area, would you consider that a success, or even a decent attempt at stopping the flood?

Leroy42

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

It definitely helped stop the spread of imported cases from China.

Great. Can you show us the statistics. How many cases, for example, existed before the partial shutdown, and how many are there now?

Or maybe go with deaths. Same deal, how many before the partial lockdown and how many now?

Also, was it a full stoppage of flights, including US citizens or just from certain parts of China for certain people?

LessOutragePlz

Carfacemandog wrote: »

If you had 40 holes in your ceiling and when it started to drizzle, you plugged just one hole

Plugging one hole is better than none at all, it was an effort made to stop more cases coming in from China which was the epicentre of the pandemic.

LessOutragePlz

Leroy42 wrote: »

Great. Can you show us the statistics. How many cases, for example, existed before the partial shutdown, and how many are there now?

Or maybe go with deaths. Same deal, how many before the partial lockdown and how many now?

Also, was it a full stoppage of flights, including US citizens or just from certain parts of China for certain people?

That's way too much effort to back up a statement that I would assume would be universally accepted by everyone or do you disagree with the statement that:

Stopping flights from China resulted in less cases being imported from China.

I would have thought that, that is fairly simple logic to follow?