2020 the battle of the septuagenarians - Trump vs Biden, Part 2

The Nal

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

Sure he could have handled it better but I believe that he would have done a better job than Biden would have and that Trump is a lot more capable of running the county for the next 4 years than Biden is.

The sad truth is that they're both terrible.

ohnonotgmail

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

It's a bit outdated but still relevant IMO.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/president-donald-j-trump-delivered-record-breaking-results-american-people-first-three-years-office/

The pandemic has hit every country so we can't lay all the blame for the unemployment levels on Trump.

Sure he could have handled it better but I believe that he would have done a better job than Biden would have and that Trump is a lot more capable of running the county for the next 4 years than Biden is.

how could have done a better job than biden? he hasn't done anything. He is still holding mass rallies. he still refuses to set an example by wearing a mask because he is afraid his makeup will be rubbed off.

LessOutragePlz

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

how could have done a better job than biden? he hasn't done anything. He is still holding mass rallies. he still refuses to set an example by wearing a mask because he is afraid his makeup will be rubbed off.

I think we're just going to go around in circles here you believe that Biden is a better candidate for various reasons and I believe that Trump is a better candidate for various reasons.

Tell me how

The Nal wrote: »

The sad truth is that they're both terrible.

By what measure is Biden terrible?

I mean, this is from his wikipedia page.

He opposed the Gulf War in 1991 but supported the expansion of the NATO alliance into Eastern Europe and its intervention in the Yugoslav Wars of the 1990s. He supported the resolution authorizing the Iraq War in 2002 but opposed the surge of U.S. troops in 2007. He also served as chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee from 1987 to 1995, dealing with issues related to drug policy, crime prevention, and civil liberties. Biden led the efforts to pass the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act and the Violence Against Women Act, and oversaw the contentious U.S. Supreme Court nominations of Robert Bork and Clarence Thomas. Biden ran unsuccessfully for the Democratic presidential nomination in 1988 and 2008.

Biden was reelected six times to the U.S. Senate and was the fourth-most senior senator when he resigned after winning the vice presidency alongside Barack Obama in the 2008 presidential election.[4] Obama and Biden were reelected in 2012. As Vice President, Biden oversaw infrastructure spending in 2009 to counteract the Great Recession. His negotiations with congressional Republicans helped the Obama administration pass legislation including the 2010 Tax Relief Act, which resolved a taxation deadlock; the Budget Control Act of 2011, which resolved a debt ceiling crisis; and the American Taxpayer Relief Act of 2012, which addressed the impending fiscal cliff. In foreign policy, Biden led the efforts to pass the United States–Russia New START treaty; supported military intervention in Libya, and helped formulate U.S. policy toward Iraq through the withdrawal of U.S. troops in 2011. Following the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting, Biden led the Gun Violence Task Force, created to address the causes of gun violence in the United States.[5]

Now, I am not saying he is the best thing since slice bread, but when compared to the bluffer that Trump is who paid someone to take exams for him, who refused the draft numerous times was handed a fortune, who has had numerous business ventures fail, who has had 6 companies declare bankruptcy, who has paid hush money to a porn star who he cheated on his pregnant wife with, who has pulled the US out of the Paris Accord, The Iran Nuclear Deal, has undermined and inhibited the WHO, has pushed his peers out of the way in an effort to get attention, has supported white supremacists while President of the US, who has undermined the medical and military communities in the US, who was impeached while in Office, who has sought to divide and stoke fear and panic amongst Americans, who used tear gas on his own citizens exercising their first amendment right, who has lied over 20,000 times while in office and who criminally undermined the worst pandemic in 100 years leading to 200K of Americans to die from it in 6 months, there is no competition.

All people want from the US President at the moment is for them to be a symbol of dignity, unity and diplomacy after the train wreck of the last 4 years.

Tell me how

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

I think we're just going to go around in circles here you believe that Biden is a better candidate for various reasons and I believe that Trump is a better candidate for various reasons.

Please list them.

Overheal

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

Since President Trump took office, over 2.4 million Americans have been lifted out of poverty.

Poverty rates for African Americans and Hispanic Americans have reached record lows.

Since President Trump’s election, nearly 7 million Americans have been lifted off of food stamps.

Are they not good things that have happened while Trump has been president?

Are these pre-Covid figures again? They sound like pre-Covid figures. I can show you some footage of some mile long lines for food banks happening far more recently.

briany

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

Sure he could have handled it better but I believe that he would have done a better job than Biden would have and that Trump is a lot more capable of running the county for the next 4 years than Biden is.

What Trump was stooping to during the opening months of Covid was outrageous. Totally nonsensical pandering to his base's paranoid thinking by claiming that the virus was a 'Democrat hoax'. Complete us vs. them nonsense at a time when you would really want to be trying to least look like you're trying to be above day to day politics, make an appeal to unity, and be a proper statesman and deal with the crisis facing your country.

You're seriously saying that Biden would have been out on the stump doing worse than the kind of crazy sh*t Trump was pulling? Blaming everyone but himself and his administration, and acting petulantly, like he really believed the whole pandemic was constructed just to interfere with his chances of election? Letting 200,000 die and shrugging his shoulders about it? Giving the kind of rambling humiliating interviews that Trump was giving on HBO, completely confusing the interviewer?

Give over.

LessOutragePlz

Tell me how wrote: »

Please list them.

He has built the wall as promised.

He has drained the swamp and exposed the deep state as promised.

He has Made America Great Again as promised.

I believe that will continue to Keep America Great for another 4 years or at least do a better job of doing so than Biden would.

Muahahaha

Danzy wrote: »

Trump now several points ahead in Iowa.

He should carry it, though it often flips from party to party.

Given its solid working class population and that its economy is as far from Wall St. And Silicon valley as one can get in America, he should carry it and has to if he has any chance

An old American electoral adage - "Iowa picks corn, New Hampshire picks Presidents". New Hampshire is known as a bellweather state for how often they pick the eventual President. Specifically Rockingham County who went for Trump 50.5% to Hillary 44.6% in 2016 and out of the last 14 Presidential elections they have also correctly picked 11 Presidents.

This time out it is not looking great for Trump, the current state of play in New Hampshire right now (538 poll of polls)
Biden 49.9%
Trump 43.1%

So Biden is just under 7% clear of Trump in a bellweather state, he is well outside the margin of error.

Steady she goes Joe, steady she goes :cool:

Overheal

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

He has built the wall as promised.

He has drained the swamp and exposed the deep state as promised.

He has Made America Great Again as promised.

I believe that will continue to Keep America Great for another 4 years or at least do a better job of doing so than Biden would.

Nope, the wall has not been built, for the most part fencing has been built to replace or augment existing miles of fencing. And Mexico didn’t pay for it. The swamp is certainly not drained and even Republicans admit this Qanon Derp State hoax is bogus. MAGA is a slogan and isn’t a way of demonstrating how it is “great again.”

Igotadose

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

He has Made America Great Again as promised.

Uhh. How? Not seeing it. Place is a lot worse since I last lived there in 2015.

Professor Moriarty

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

He has built the wall as promised.

He has drained the swamp and exposed the deep state as promised.

He has Made America Great Again as promised.

I believe that will continue to Keep America Great for another 4 years or at least do a better job of doing so than Biden would.

None of this is true. This is QAnon stuff.

The Nal

Tell me how wrote: »

By what measure is Biden terrible?

I mean, this is from his wikipedia page.

From your link - "Biden ran unsuccessfully for the Democratic presidential nomination in 1988". 1988 would've been his time.

Hes an old man. A gaffe prone career politician. Theres nothing exceptional about anything hes ever done. His career as a senator mainly dealt with small time stuff. Where to buy chickens and the like. And any of the other bigger stuff was committee driven. As a legal guy he would've helped draft legislation etc but he didn't create it. Its where hes best suited. Half decent operator, easy to deal with. Knows his way around a legal document.

And lets not forget that he was 100% only chosen by Obama to "folksie" up the 2008 ticket. Much like Pence was chosen to God up Trumps ticket.

That said, Biden is a genuinely nice man. One of the good guys.

Tell me how wrote: »

Now, I am not saying he is the best thing since slice bread, but when compared to the bluffer that Trump

No question. And you get wider Democratic policies with him which is the main thing. The actual man is secondary for me. Some of the policies have been disgusting. Particularly the environmental policies, animals, hazardous chemicals etc. The GOP just come in and roll back any progressive policies in favour of short term business gains. That is Trumps real legacy. Hes done huge damage. People get blinded by the other stuff. This all gets reversed if Biden gets in.

Tell me how wrote: »

All people want from the US President at the moment is for them to be a symbol of dignity, unity and diplomacy after the train wreck of the last 4 years.

See I don't think so. This is where the Dems fail. Obama basically ran as a reform candidate. So did Trump. So did Clinton, Reagan, Nixon, JFK....

Whats Biden really offering here in terms of change? That theres a nicer bloke in the White House? Id expect more of an offer considering the ****show of the last 4 years and all the ammo Biden has to use

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

He has built the wall as promised.

No he hasn't.

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

He has drained the swamp and exposed the deep state as promised.

No he hasn't.

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

He has Made America Great Again as promised.

No he hasn't. Its a bull**** stock phrase anyway. Its meaningless. Was bull**** when Reagan said it. Was bull**** when Clinton said it. Was bull**** when Trump said it.

briany

The Nal wrote: »

See I don't think so. This is where the Dems fail. Obama basically ran as a reform candidate. So did Trump. So did Clinton, Reagan, Nixon, JFK....

Whats Biden really offering here in terms of change? That theres a nicer bloke in the White House? Id expect more of an offer considering the ****show of the last 4 years and all the ammo Biden has to use.

Hold on, the word 'reform' is defined as making a change, especially one of a positive nature. Given the way Trump's conducted himself so far, it's hard to say that a return to the presidential style of old, as Biden promises, wouldn't represent a kind of reform at this point.

LessOutragePlz

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

None of this is true. This is QAnon stuff.

How would you know it's QAnon stuff unless you've seen it

Professor Moriarty

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

How would you know it's QAnon stuff unless you've seen it

I believe 1% of what you post. That happened to be the 1%.

Overheal

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

How would you know it's QAnon stuff unless you've seen it

You think it’s very hard to have been informed on what Qanon is about?

LessOutragePlz

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

I believe 1% of what you post. That happened to be the 1%.

Touche

LessOutragePlz

Overheal wrote: »

You think it’s very hard to have been informed on what Qanon is about?

No but it's very hard to be Informed on what is posted there unless you go to the dark side and see if for yourself.

Otherwise you're relying on what other people or outlets tell you that is posted there.

Overheal

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

No but it's very hard to be Informed on what is posted there unless you go to the dark side and see if for yourself.

Otherwise you're relying on what other people or outlets tell you that is posted there.

You linked to whitehouse.gov is that the dark side?

You’ve stopped making much sense in your last few posts.

The Nal

briany wrote: »

Hold on, the word 'reform' is defined as making a change, especially one of a positive nature. Given the way Trump's conducted himself so far, it's hard to say that a return to the presidential style of old, as Biden promises, wouldn't represent a kind of reform at this point.

"Kind of" isn't reform though. Reform means the complete change of big picture stuff on an institutional level. Universal healthcare, gun control, ending a war, regulating Wall St, economical reform, educational changes like college fees etc. Big broad life changing policies.

So far, Bidens message just seems to be "Vote for me, I'm nicer than Trump". Meaning the election is focused on Trump either way.

But we've still a bit to go and Im hoping the Dems have a proper rollout policy in place and we're only seeing fluffy stuff so far. Biden did come out against the NRA yesterday so maybe we'll start see him get serious now.

LessOutragePlz

Overheal wrote: »

You linked to whitehouse.gov is that the dark side?

You’ve stopped making much sense in your last few posts.

You asked if it is hard to be informed on what QAnon posts that was my response. I linked the Whitehouse page in response to a different question I was asked.

dwayneshintzy

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

He has built the wall as promised.

He has drained the swamp and exposed the deep state as promised.

He has Made America Great Again as promised.

I believe that will continue to Keep America Great for another 4 years or at least do a better job of doing so than Biden would.

In what way is America currently great, that was not true in 2016?

weisses

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

If a person believes that he has lived up to his previous campaign promise of Making America Great Again and they believe that he will continue to keep America Great or at least do a better job than Biden of doing so.

Is that reasoning flawed?

There is nothing wrong or flawed If you believe that to be the case. As long as you don't present your believes as being factual.

weisses

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

It's a bit outdated but still relevant IMO.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/president-donald-j-trump-delivered-record-breaking-results-american-people-first-three-years-office/

See ... That is the issue with your claim. WH spin vs factcheck

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/feb/06/donald-trump/trumps-state-union-claim-welfare-food-stamp-declin/

namloc1980

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

He has built the wall as promised.

He has drained the swamp and exposed the deep state as promised.

He has Made America Great Again as promised.

I believe that will continue to Keep America Great for another 4 years or at least do a better job of doing so than Biden would.

No he hasn't and Mexico didn't pay for the bits that were built either as he promised.

He indulged in the swamp. Golf trips to his own resorts costing the tax payers money directly into his pocket / hired a bunch of criminals on his staff and billionaires to his cabinet.

Massive unemployment / 200k dead from a catastrophic response to the virus etc. You might think that's great but it's more in the total disaster bracket.

namloc1980

namloc1980 wrote: »

No he hasn't and Mexico didn't pay for the bits that were built either as he promised.

He indulged in the swamp. Golf trips to his own resorts costing the tax payers money directly into his pocket / hired a bunch of criminals on his staff and billionaires to his cabinet.

Massive unemployment / 200k dead from a catastrophic response to the virus etc. You might think that's great but it's more in the total disaster bracket.

Ah but he's owning the left etc apparently according to his supporters, and even at that he seems to be failing at this

gmisk

namloc1980 wrote: »

No he hasn't and Mexico didn't pay for the bits that were built either as he promised.

He indulged in the swamp. Golf trips to his own resorts costing the tax payers money directly into his pocket / hired a bunch of criminals on his staff and billionaires to his cabinet.

Massive unemployment / 200k dead from a catastrophic response to the virus etc. You might think that's great but it's more in the total disaster bracket.

Didn't trump jr also campaign as part of the "we build the wall" project/scam? Along with a lot of Trump's other mates?
https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/20/politics/bannon-build-the-wall-indictment/index.html
4 charged with fraud so far

This is an excellent watch on the border wall or as Trump puts it "the super duper wall"...it's been a flop unsurprisingly, parts of it collapsing, new sections also easy to get over.... but it has helped line the pockets of a lot of Trump's supporters...standard
https://youtu.be/3ZRE6uVMDAo

dark crystal

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

He has built the wall as promised.

Lol. According to CBP, 317 miles had been completed by September 8. As of May 2020, only 16 miles out of 194 miles of wall constructed under the Trump administration was not replacement fencing. He said Mexico would pay for it, however, that didn't happen. Trump's wall will cost the American taxpayer an estimated $45 billion.
According to a 2020 study, the potential welfare benefits from constructing Trump's proposed border wall (if illegal immigration is reduced massively, with potential increases in the wages of local American low-skilled workers) are substantially smaller than the cost of constructing the wall.
Additionally, a private organization called We Build The Wall constructed 0.5 miles (0.80 km) of new wall on private property near El Paso, Texas, with Trump's encouragement. By August 2020, some of its leaders, including Steve Bannon, were arrested on allegations of defrauding hundreds of thousands of dollars. This case is ongoing.

What a success that wall has been!

He has drained the swamp and exposed the deep state as promised.

Drained the swamp?? He has a number of his children and in-laws working in his administration, none of whom have a notion how to run a bath, let alone the roles they've been gifted. How is that level of nepotism 'draining the swamp'?

To date, at least 7 of Trump's associates have been arrested and/or indicted. These include Steve Bannon, Paul Manafort, Rick Gates, Roger Stone, Michael Flynn, Michael Cohen and George Papadopoulos. The only swamp being drained belongs to Trump himself. Trump himself has been impeached.

Exposed the deep state? What exactly do you believe the deep state is and how has he exposed it?

He has Made America Great Again as promised.

I believe that will continue to Keep America Great for another 4 years or at least do a better job of doing so than Biden would.

Made America great?! 194k deaths from Coronavirus. Protests on the streets. 18 million Americans unemployed. California skies are filled with smoke from widespread wildfires.

Yeah, it's the sort of Utopian existence we all dream of living in...

:rolleyes:

Kidchameleon

No doubt this situation will form part of the election narrative.

BLM riots have broken out in Pennsylvania after a person of color was shot dead by police. The deceased, Ricardo Munoz, had a violent criminal history.

Police were called to a domestic disturbance and upon arriving, were charged at by Munoz who was wielding a large knife. The officer tried to get away but Munoz was too fast, meaning the officer had no choice but to shoot. The whole incident was caught on bodycam and the footage has been released.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/sep/14/ricardo-munoz-shooting-death-police-protests-pennsylvania

After a Pennsylvania police officer fatally shot a man during a domestic disturbance call on Sunday afternoon, street protests were dispersed with teargas.

Not sure why they are being refereed to as "protests", they are clearly riots...

Hundreds took to the streets of Lancaster following the shooting, a crowd forming outside the police station. The department said multiple buildings and government vehicles were damaged.

Some footage of the riots:

Here is a video of the shooting (warning disturbing content):