2020 the battle of the septuagenarians - Trump vs Biden, Part 2

extra gravy

Eric Cartman wrote: »

at the end on some columns is some sort of unique ID string, probably from a social media profile. Im going to take a hard guess here and say that its a list from an analytics company who were trying to assess how to target likely voters, listed all of the key demographic correlations and had a list of those that were not worth targeting for votes, a large amount of those vocal supporters happen to be black so channel 4 'arranged by column' and turned up the shock factor.

The Channel 4 news team are one of the best in the business and I expect nothing less than a thorough investigation. You can guess all you want, I'd rather watch it.

MrMusician18

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

Trump was a kick in the balls 4 years ago and he still won.


My point is, if the democrats had a single candidate , instead of the atrocious and detestable hilary, and this bumbling old geriatric biden, they would romp home.


If trump does ever get in, you do not only blame the voters, but the blame should also lie with the democrats, for choosing yet another abysmal candidate.

They wouldn't. The US is so divided and polarised that you are now in one camp or the other. Everything is seen through a partisan lens.

If one side did field the technically perfect candidate, the other side would still find reasons not to vote for him or her.

namloc1980

DraftDodger wrote: »

I'm still finding it hard to understand why the Democrats put Biden forward. They had a wide open goal and they'll be lucky to even hit the crossbar.

He won a primary process which had a host of other candidates and was by far the most popular candidate amongst Democrat voters in the primaries. He wasn't just plucked out of thin air.

eire4

DraftDodger wrote: »

I'm still finding it hard to understand why the Democrats put Biden forward. They had a wide open goal and they'll be lucky to even hit the crossbar.

I would say it is because they are a corporate owned party that has no interest in legislating for the best economic interests of the vast majority of Americans. The Republicans work for and on behalf of the richest 1% of Americans and big business.
The Democrats maybe the richest 20%.But that still leaves the vast majority of Americans on the outside and they simply have no interest in them other then throwing them a few crumbs to keep them pacified.

Quin_Dub

Ouch!!

After a reasonably steady run in recent times from his favourite pollster - Rasmussen , Trumps numbers fall off a cliff today.

9 point drop in Net approval rating in the figures today , from -2 to -11 - The lowest it's been in about 6/7 weeks.

48% say they "Strongly Disapprove" of him .

As far as I know the data published today would be from surveys done on Friday , so before the Tax information dropped over the week-end . Tomorrow could be interesting.

Justin Credible Darts

the problem with the polls is they are not always accurate.

I suspect a lot of people are secretive Trump supporters and wont admit to it for fear of abuse or ridicule.

guess that shows how tolerant the democrat supporters are. This is a factor the polls dont take in to account.

namloc1980

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

the problem with the polls is they are not always accurate.

I suspect a lot of people are secretive Trump supporters and wont admit to it for fear of abuse or ridicule.

guess that shows how tolerant the democrat supporters are. This is a factor the polls dont take in to account.

Gotta laugh at the suggestion of a shy Trump vote. One thing you can say about Trumpists is that they are far from shy.

And you just made up the scenario in bold. Do you think the pollsters are going to abuse and ridicule them or something?

namloc1980

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Ouch!!

After a reasonably steady run in recent times from his favourite pollster - Rasmussen , Trumps numbers fall off a cliff today.

9 point drop in Net approval rating in the figures today , from -2 to -11 - The lowest it's been in about 6/7 weeks.

48% say they "Strongly Disapprove" of him .

As far as I know the data published today would be from surveys done on Friday , so before the Tax information dropped over the week-end . Tomorrow could be interesting.

When Rasmussen have his approval dropping like that you know it's bad.

jill_valentine

Penn wrote: »

As much as I agree that Biden is a bland, uninspiring choice... He may also be the best bet at beating Trump regardless, because he is centrist enough that he'll appeal to more independents/moderates than most of the other candidates. Besides which, the candidate is nominated by votes in the primaries, and Biden picked up more votes, which is mainly from registered members of the Democratic Party.

As awful as he is, he may have the best shot against Trump.

They picked Biden because he's been absolutely ****ing Teflon to all Trump's nonsense. Papers fell over themselves to give column inches to Clinton's email categorisation, an absolutely nothing story. By comparison, Trumpland hasn't been able to get one single thing to stick on Biden outside their own Facebook circles for more than a day or two despite their best efforts.

He's not a woman so they can't call him a bitch. He's not black so they can't darken his skin in photos and pretend they think he's African. He's too oldschool for them to blather on about socialism, and his son was in the Army so they can't gob on about supporting the troops. And the National Enquirer hasn't spent 20 years priming people to believe any aul bs they read about him so Trump had to start from cold.

Trump's campaign against Clinton worked as well as it did because it found lots of eager ears outside its own petrie dish. His campaign against Biden can't seem to find any traction at all by comparison.

You might not find him especially exciting, but the fact he doesn't fit comfortably into the subtler sexist or racist receptors lots of people have without knowing has served him very well so far. Excitement is what Harris is for,

DraftDodger

DraftDodger wrote: »

I'm still finding it hard to understand why the Democrats put Biden forward. They had a wide open goal and they'll be lucky to even hit the crossbar.

Perfect analogy. Trump winning and 2016 and 2020 is not because America suddenly became racist. It is entirely down to how brazenly corrupt the Democrats are. They don't care about losing the election, their priority is nominating someone who will do what they're told, play by the old rules, take care of the donors and the corporate interests. They shafted Bernie 4 years ago, when he would have easily taken a lot of Trump voters and won. They're doing the same now, putting in a safe establishment guy rather than some of the young gun populist left wingers, the AOCs etc. When they lose, they will blame everyone but themselves.

DraftDodger

Penn wrote: »

As much as I agree that Biden is a bland, uninspiring choice... He may also be the best bet at beating Trump regardless, because he is centrist enough that he'll appeal to more independents/moderates than most of the other candidates. Besides which, the candidate is nominated by votes in the primaries, and Biden picked up more votes, which is mainly from registered members of the Democratic Party.

As awful as he is, he may have the best shot against Trump.

America is craving change. Obama promised and failed, Trump promised and hasn't. Joe Biden is not change. He represents the status quo and was an absolute disaster of a pick.

DraftDodger

DraftDodger wrote: »

America is craving change. Obama promised and failed, Trump promised and hasn't. Joe Biden is not change. He represents the status quo and was an absolute disaster of a pick.

What positive change has Trump brought? He's treated the presidency as a way to engage further in his narcissism. He's stoked divisions and during one of the biggest disasters in living history, he's managed to divide the nation further and left 200k citizens to die.

namloc1980

Deleted User wrote: »

Perfect analogy. Trump winning and 2016 and 2020 is not because America suddenly became racist. It is entirely down to how brazenly corrupt the Democrats are. They don't care about losing the election, their priority is nominating someone who will do what they're told, play by the old rules, take care of the donors and the corporate interests. They shafted Bernie 4 years ago, when he would have easily taken a lot of Trump voters and won. They're doing the same now, putting in a safe establishment guy rather than some of the young gun populist left wingers, the AOCs etc. When they lose, they will blame everyone but themselves.

It obviously needs to be pointed out again but Biden won a primary process of numerous candidates and comfortably won more votes than any other candidate.

namloc1980

namloc1980 wrote: »

Gotta laugh at the suggestion of a shy Trump vote. One thing you can say about Trumpists is that they are far from shy.

And you just made up the scenario in bold. Do you think the pollsters are going to abuse and ridicule them or something?

Do you think it's possible that you only notice the loud ones? There a lot of silent Trump voters who would never admit it in public because of the fear of retribution and racism accusations. Being accused of racism is unbelievably powerful in the Western world. It's a big weapon in the left's arsenal.

DraftDodger

namloc1980 wrote: »

Gotta laugh at the suggestion of a shy Trump vote. One thing you can say about Trumpists is that they are far from shy.

And you just made up the scenario in bold. Do you think the pollsters are going to abuse and ridicule them or something?

They are extremely shy tbh. Clinton was consistently ahead in the polls by a huge margin and lost because people won't admit to voting Trump. This will be no different

Tell me how

DraftDodger wrote: »

America is craving change. Obama promised and failed, Trump promised and hasn't. Joe Biden is not change. He represents the status quo and was an absolute disaster of a pick.

What type of change does America want though?

Obama fans wanted progressiveness. Increased healthcare, climate action, inclusivity etc
Trump fans wanted to step back. Reduced healthcare, less climate legislation, race division etc.

DraftDodger

Deleted User wrote: »

What positive change has Trump brought? He's treated the presidency as a way to engage further in his narcissism. He's stoked divisions and during one of the biggest disasters in living history, he's managed to divide the nation further and left 200k citizens to die.

None. Where did I say he has.

namloc1980

namloc1980 wrote: »

It obviously needs to be pointed out again but Biden won a primary process of numerous candidates and comfortably won more votes than any other candidate.

He was the winner out of the system that they had set up. Agreed. However he's not a candidate any Democrats feel much love about, as Michael Moore said. Trump supporters will queue for 2 days to get in to hear him speak. There's nothing like the enthusiasm on the Biden side.

DraftDodger

Tell me how wrote: »

What type of change does America want though?

Obama fans wanted progressiveness. Increased healthcare, climate action, inclusivity etc
Trump fans wanted to step back. Reduced healthcare, less climate legislation, race division etc.

Honestly they don't know themselves I'd say. It doesn't matter really they just need to believe in something and Biden brings nothing to them. He's seen as just more Obama or Clinton.

Tell me how

DraftDodger wrote: »

Honestly they don't know themselves I'd say. It doesn't matter really they just need to believe in something and Biden brings nothing to them. He's seen as just more Obama or Clinton.

Which is better?
Believing in someone advocating for positive change? Or someone advocating for rolling back positive steps which have been taken?

I'd prefer to be talking about the possibility of next year bringing a Bernie Presidency and a Democrat led Senate and House but in the absence of that, I would favour someone who isn't making things worse.

1800_Ladladlad

When The Rock endorsed Joe Biden, Joe asked “What about paper and scissors?”.

extra gravy

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

When The Rock endorsed Joe Biden, Joe asked “What about paper and scissors?”.

Posting shiit jokes now, did you run out of videos?

ChikiChiki

Watching the Deterring Democracy piece on C4. Facebook are a ****ing cesspit.

PropJoe10

Tell me how wrote: »

What type of change does America want though?

Obama fans wanted progressiveness. Increased healthcare, climate action, inclusivity etc
Trump fans wanted to step back. Reduced healthcare, less climate legislation, race division etc.

There isn't any sort of change that can keep America together, its too divided. A progressive candidate won't get the votes. An ultra conservative candidate wont either. Its not a real country. Its about ten countries cobbled together. Unsustainable.

Tell me how

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Watching the Deterring Democracy piece on C4. Facebook are a ****ing cesspit.

Saw a tweet yesterday with a video of all the times Zuckerberg has apologised and said that they made a serious judgement. It went back 17 years!!! That's a generation of people who have seen their persona's and data traded and manipulated like in a matrix.

I actually think he has found himself in this accidental position and that he hasn't, for whatever reason, grasped that what they were doing or planning on doing was going to be problematic.

Maybe I am giving him too much credit.

DraftDodger

PropJoe10 wrote: »

There isn't any sort of change that can keep America together, its too divided. A progressive candidate won't get the votes. An ultra conservative candidate wont either. Its not a real country. Its about ten countries cobbled together. Unsustainable.

I laughed at a companion of mine who said to me over 10 years ago now America will have a civil war in our lifetimes (I'm 47). Over the last while I've had a feeling he could be right.

A very fcuked up country.

Rjd2

Deleted User wrote: »

rump supporters will queue for 2 days to get in to hear him speak. There's nothing like the enthusiasm on the Biden side.

You don't get to vote more than once because you are keen.

Trump is great at firing up his base, but also great at firing up his opponents supporters. Their has been numerous type of elections in states since 2016 and the most notable was the 2018 mid terms where turnout from the Dems was excellent and the GOP got smashed in the suburbs aka the base which looks like it will cost Trump the election.

Biden is a meh politician , but it doesn't matter, their is a sizeable portion of Americans who would identify as moderates, centre left, centre right who are apoplectic with rage with Trump and are gagging to vote him out.

Look at how races have gone last few years, early voting numbers and voting enthusiasm, the idea that Trump has the most fired up base is wrong.

And I say that as someone who has little time for Biden.

eire4

namloc1980 wrote: »

It obviously needs to be pointed out again but Biden won a primary process of numerous candidates and comfortably won more votes than any other candidate.

Your absolutely correct in what you say no question. What I would say though is to point out that in actual elections both presidential and mid terms only about half of Americans vote. That is pathetic. On top of that a fraction of that actually vote in primary elections. For the current election in the primaries Montana had the best voter turnout at just under 46%. North Dakota at 2.6% was the worst the overall national average was a paltry 23%. So again yes Biden won the primaries but only based on a national vote turnout of about 23%.

IMHO voter turnout in the US is so pathetic because the system is utterly corrupt and dysfunctional. Neither party has any interest in legislating economically in the best interests of the vast majority of Americans but rather just in the economic interests of the rich and major corporations. Granted the Democrats take in maybe the richest 20% or so compared to the Republicans with the top 1% or so but the fact remains they both have no interest in doing what is best for the vast majority of Americans. Further more both parties use the current corrupt and dysfunctional system to make sure there is no way alternatives that might address the needs of the vast majority of Americans can rise up and become viable nationally.

Justin Credible Darts

why is it the minute some one slates the bumbling biden the first reaction of others is to suddenly mention trump is this and that ?

It seems the only response to the failings of biden is to make out how he is better that Trump, that does not mean Bidens failings are to be simply brushed aside.
Its almost a deflection tactic, when faced with criticism, they shift the argument straight to Trump.

ohnonotgmail

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

why is it the minute some one slates the bumbling biden the first reaction of others is to suddenly mention trump is this and that ?

It seems the only response to the failings of biden is to make out how he is better that Trump, that does not mean Bidens failings are to be simply brushed aside.
Its almost a deflection tactic, when faced with criticism, they shift the argument straight to Trump.

but he is better than trump. in almost every measurable way.