2020 the battle of the septuagenarians - Trump vs Biden, Part 2

eagle eye

namloc1980 wrote:

Trump wasn't able to deliver anything close to a knockout blow to a guy supposedly suffering dementia. He probably inflicted a few damaging hits on himself if anything. Doesn't say much for Trump to be honest.

His 47 months to 47 years comparison was a win. Biden losing his cool a couple of times were wins too. The first five minutes was won by Trump.
Biden won the covid argument by a long way. His looking at the camera and telling people to vote was a win too. His looking at the camera and smiling was a win.
I'm missing a few things but generally it was awful and there was no winner.

The Rooster

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Sky bet have Biden 4/7 Trump 11/8 at the moment.

Yep. It's still pretty marginal and all based on money staked in UK and Ireland.

https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/us-politics/us-presidential-election-2020/winner?selectionName=donald-trump

Quin_Dub

eagle eye wrote: »

His 47 months to 47 years comparison was a win. Biden losing his cool a couple of times were wins too. The first five minutes was won by Trump.
Biden won the covid argument by a long way. His looking at the camera and telling people to vote was a win too. His looking at the camera and smiling was a win.
I'm missing a few things but generally it was awful and there was no winner.

That's not an unreasonable summary.

Fundamentally though if you consider what each side needed from the Debate , who achieved more of their Goals?

Biden needed to be steady , not lose his temper and avoid any major "meme-able" gaffs.

By and large he achieved those things , he got pulled into the street fight a few times by Trump , but pulled himself back fairly quickly.

Trump on the other hand needed Biden to stumble to validate his whole "Sleepy Joe" thing , he needed to land major punches which I don't think he did to any major extent.

So , whilst neither side could confidently call last night a win , in terms of delivering on the Debate "table stakes" I think Biden did far better.

tobefrank321

eagle eye wrote: »

His 47 months to 47 years comparison was a win. Biden losing his cool a couple of times were wins too. The first five minutes was won by Trump.
Biden won the covid argument by a long way. His looking at the camera and telling people to vote was a win too. His looking at the camera and smiling was a win.
I'm missing a few things but generally it was awful and there was no winner.

Ah stop it. He was blaming Biden for failures that happened on his watch and had nothing to do with Biden.

The rest was just one very long list of lies.

MeMen2_MoRi_

terryduff12 wrote: »

More like when when a couple have forgotten seeing each other 20 minutes earlier in the car ride over to the debate. Cause every husband and wife greet like that every time they see each other.

She's more Android then Donnie, perfect couple!!

tobefrank321

The only way Trump can "win" debates like this is by turning them into such a sh1tshow that a large number of independents and undecideds get turned off politics. And there appears to be evidence already for that happening. He's dragged the presedential race through the mud and turned off millions who probably can't be bothered voting.

hynesie08

[QUOTE=eagle eye;114775944]His 47 months to 47 years comparison was a win. Biden losing his cool a couple of times were wins too. The first five minutes was won by Trump.
Biden won the covid argument by a long way. His looking at the camera and telling people to vote was a win too. His looking at the camera and smiling was a win.
I'm missing a few things but generally it was awful and there was no winner.[/QUOTE]

As a soundbite its a win, although it was balanced out by bidens suburb zinger....

As a checkable fact though, every time trump made a claim, Biden seemed to either have a researched, fact check rebuttal (trump defunding the police, coronavirus deaths, climate change) or trump was just pulling statements out of his ass (vaccine in weeks, insulin as cheap as water)

Biden ducked and dodged a few questions, and if you put any of the last 3 potus up against either of them, they would have pissed themselves, but I'm at a loss to see how anyone can claim trump won last night.

tobefrank321

At this stage its best for Biden to forego remaining debates. He could beat Trump in every one hands down and all people will remember is them being chaos and Trump turning everyone off voting. That's what happens when you mud wrestle. Everyone gets mud on them no matter how clean they were at the start.

tobefrank321

The suburb one landed cleanly as did Biden telling Trump to get off the golf course and back into the Oval Office.

Bass Reeves

eagle eye wrote: »

His 47 months to 47 years comparison was a win. Biden losing his cool a couple of times were wins too. The first five minutes was won by Trump.
Biden won the covid argument by a long way. His looking at the camera and telling people to vote was a win too. His looking at the camera and smiling was a win.
I'm missing a few things but generally it was awful and there was no winner.

Trump needs a win Biden only needs a score draw. Not sure if Biden losing his cool was a win for Trump. On the other hand it show he is not willing to be bullied by Trump. As we. His shut up comment show how Trump usually tries to bully other speakers. As long as Biden can hold his own in these debates and not stumble he is winning.

It like a football or hurling match you are 4-5 points up and the other side score a point it no problem as long as you go back down the field and do the same. Where the problem is if you let the other team in for a goal or a few points without reply.

Trump's statement to the proud boys ''to stand down stand by'' may come back to haunt them his shifting to get this vote out may leave him open to attack on the moderate right who may get queasy about it and consider it an attack on democracy. In his attempt to win extreme sections of voters he may stumble himself and Biden may have an open goal to score into. It like in a match and you are all out attacking to get a score you are vunerable to counter attack.

However Trump is a wiley operator as he showed against Hillary in 2016 and if any attack shoes success he will hammer home that point.. with two older candidates the VP debate may be just as important and Harris will need to win big on that

MeMen2_MoRi_

15 undecided voters..

"Despite their indecisiveness, most described Trump in a negative light, including one of the participants who was leaning toward voting for the president. The voters characterized Trump as “unhinged,” “arrogant,” “forceful," a “bully,” “chaotic” and “un-American.”

When asked to describe Biden they offered: “better than expected,” “politician,” “compassion,” “coherent,” and a “nice guy lacking vision.”

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/30/undecided-voters-trump-biden-debate-423545

Loving this quote..

The roughly four voters who ended the night in Biden’s corner were stunned by Trump’s performance. Ruthie, a voter from Pennsylvania, described it as trying to “win an argument with a crackhead.”

Did Donnie take that drug test?

Quin_Dub

tobefrank321 wrote: »

At this stage its best for Biden to forego remaining debates. He could beat Trump in every one hands down and all people will remember is them being chaos and Trump turning everyone off voting. That's what happens when you mud wrestle. Everyone gets mud on them no matter how clean they were at the start.

Totally disagree - Biden backing out plays into Trumps hands as no matter the reasons that Biden might put forward , it will be spun by Trump as Biden being afraid or Not up to the job etc.

The next Debate is Townhall style - Given how the townhalls they both held recently went I think that will work for Biden.

Trump will get at least one question that he really doesn't like from the audience and if he responds to them the way he spoke last night it will damage him.

I honestly don't think that there's any question that someone could ask Biden that would go as low a Trump did last night so I think that Biden will handle them quite well.

It will be interesting to hear the line taken by Trump today/tomorrow when they start to get their feedback and polling data after the debate. At best, their data will tell them that it made no difference to the current standings

I genuinely think that if anyone pulls out of the debates it'll be Trump - He'll go and hold rallies in Swing States instead , like he did in the Primary debates last time around.

He'll claim the moderators are in the bag for Biden etc.

hynesie08

tobefrank321 wrote: »

At this stage its best for Biden to forego remaining debates. He could beat Trump in every one hands down and all people will remember is them being chaos and Trump turning everyone off voting. That's what happens when you mud wrestle. Everyone gets mud on them no matter how clean they were at the start.

If Biden refuses to debate, he's effectively handing trump the election, he just has to do more of what he did last night, and not rise to trumps baiting. Trump proved last night that he can't handle being ignored.

And selfishly I really want to see the town hall debate, that'll be a car crash of epic proportions.

Igotadose

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Totally disagree - Biden backing out plays into Trumps hands as no matter the reasons that Biden might put forward , it will be spun by Trump as Biden being afraid or Not up to the job etc.

The next Debate is Townhall style - Given how the townhalls they both held recently went I think that will work for Biden.

Trump will get at least one question that he really doesn't like from the audience and if he responds to them the way he spoke last night it will damage him.

I honestly don't think that there's any question that someone could ask Biden that would go as low a Trump did last night so I think that Biden will handle them quite well.

It will be interesting to hear the line taken by Trump today/tomorrow when they start to get their feedback and polling data after the debate. At best, their data will tell them that it made no difference to the current standings

I genuinely think that if anyone pulls out of the debates it'll be Trump - He'll go and hold rallies in Swing States instead , like he did in the Primary debates last time around.

He'll claim the moderators are in the bag for Biden etc.

I'm thinking it's even money until the next round of polling to see if the #IMPOTUS pulls out. If he drops in the polls overall, I'd say he will. Biden doesn't have to do much in these debates (which, ffs, aren't debates at all, they're joint press conferences). It's not like the Ford/Carter debates and Ford convincing everyone he really was an idiot with what he said about Poland and the Soviet Union. We *know* the #IMPOTUS. As Biden said last night when quoting Maya Angelou, when someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time. The #IMPOTUS is exactly what he showed last night. He doesn't kid. He doesn't really joke (he's sort of an inept Don Rickles insult comedian). He's dumb, lazy and massively narcissistic.

hynesie08

hynesie08 wrote: »

The proud boys are 100% going to show up armed at the polls, and trump just gave them permission to do it.

What are the proud boys? They seem like a pretty diverse bunch of people with no clear agenda. Gavin McInnes started them and he is not some unhinged white supremacist. He's actually a really funny guy online although every media "file photo" they always use makes him look like an evil modern day Hitler.

osarusan

I don't get the idea that either candidate can drop out of the debates - it would do massive damage to their campaign in terms of the undecided voters. There's no way they can spin it as a positive.

Quin_Dub

Deleted User wrote: »

What are the proud boys? They seem like a pretty diverse bunch of people with no clear agenda. Gavin McInnes started them and he is not some unhinged white supremacist. He's actually a really funny guy online although every media "file photo" they always use makes him look like an evil modern day Hitler.

Proud Boys

Established in the midst of the 2016 presidential election by VICE Media co-founder Gavin McInnes, the Proud Boys are self-described “western chauvinists” who adamantly deny any connection to the racist “alt-right,” insisting they are simply a fraternal group spreading an “anti-political correctness” and “anti-white guilt” agenda.

Gavin McInnes - "Quite a funny guy online" - really?

Here are some quotes from Mr McInnes

"It’s such a rape culture with these immigrants, I don’t even think these women see it as rape. They see it as just like having a teeth [sic] pulled. ‘It’s a Monday. I don’t really enjoy it,’ but that’s what you do. I wouldn’t be surprised if it doesn’t have the same trauma as it would for a middle-class white girl in the suburbs because it’s so entrenched into their culture.” — Gavin McInnes, Get Off My Lawn, June 19, 2018

"Muslims have a problem with inbreeding. They tend to marry their first cousins…and that is a major problem here because when you have mentally damaged inbreds — which not all Muslims are, but a disproportionate number are — and you have a hate book called the Koran…you end up with a perfect recipe for mass murder." — Gavin McInnes, Get Off My Lawn, April 24, 2018

“We brought roads and infrastructure to India and they are still using them as toilets. Our criminals built nice roads in Australia but aboriginals keep using them as a bed. The next time someone b

---

about colonization, the correct response is ‘You’re welcome.’”
—Gavin McInnes, “10 Things I like About White Guys,” Taki’s Magazine, March 2, 2017

“Maybe the reason I’m sexist is because women are dumb. No, I’m just kidding, ladies. But you do tend to not thrive in certain areas — like writing.”
—Gavin McInnes, The Gavin McInnes Show, June 28, 2017

Yeah.. He's Hilarious alright..

breezy1985

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What are the proud boys? They seem like a pretty diverse bunch of people with no clear agenda. Gavin McInnes started them and he is not some unhinged white supremacist. He's actually a really funny guy online although every media "file photo" they always use makes him look like an evil modern day Hitler.

Just to annoy them I hope guys who attended LGBTQ+ pride events start referring to themselves as proud boys

salmocab

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Proud Boys



Gavin McInnes - "Quite a funny guy online" - really?

Here are some quotes from Mr McInnes










Yeah.. He's Hilarious alright..

Jokes, you know every time someone says something offensive it’s jokes.

hynesie08

Deleted User wrote: »

What are the proud boys? They seem like a pretty diverse bunch of people with no clear agenda. Gavin McInnes started them and he is not some unhinged white supremacist. He's actually a really funny guy online although every media "file photo" they always use makes him look like an evil modern day Hitler.

They're a misogynistic hate group who are a rally away from being a militia. They're also heavily armed because seemingly they can't win a one on one fight.

They're an incel hell's angels without the street cred, and they just got called to arms by trump.

breezy1985

MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »

15 undecided voters..

"Despite their indecisiveness, most described Trump in a negative light, including one of the participants who was leaning toward voting for the president. The voters characterized Trump as “unhinged,” “arrogant,” “forceful," a “bully,” “chaotic” and “un-American.”

When asked to describe Biden they offered: “better than expected,” “politician,” “compassion,” “coherent,” and a “nice guy lacking vision.”

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/30/undecided-voters-trump-biden-debate-423545

Loving this quote..

The roughly four voters who ended the night in Biden’s corner were stunned by Trump’s performance. Ruthie, a voter from Pennsylvania, described it as trying to “win an argument with a crackhead.”

Did Donnie take that drug test?

Funny enough when he done the exact same thing to a female candidate he was "dominant"and "strong"

hynesie08

breezy1985 wrote: »

Just to annoy them I hope guys who attended LGBTQ+ pride events start referring to themselves as proud boys

Pride boys...... Steal their logo and font but have it in the rainbow colours....... That'd be incredible.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

breezy1985 wrote: »

By how much?

The Rooster wrote: »

Yep. It's still pretty marginal and all based on money staked in UK and Ireland.

https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/us-politics/us-presidential-election-2020/winner?selectionName=donald-trump

About the 1.65 mark average (7/11 in old English ) which translates into a 60% chance of winning. It was much closer to the 50% mark afew days ago. He peeked at about 65%-70% just after the George Floys incident. Before that, Trump was down as 55% chance of winning.

breezy1985

hynesie08 wrote: »

Pride boys...... Steal their logo and font but have it in the rainbow colours....... That'd be incredible.

Matching tight fitting t-shirts but with rainbow camo too

breezy1985

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

About the 1.65 mark average (7/11 in old English ) which translates into a 60% chance of winning. It was much closer to the 50% mark afew days ago. He peeked at about 65%-70% just after the George Floys incident. Before that, Trump was down as 55% chance of winning.

Cool thanks I hadn't really been checking the betting throughout this. I'm not really into betting so when you said "odds dropped" I was worried that meant less chance of Biden winning not the other way round

Danzy

breezy1985 wrote: »

Matching tight fitting t-shirts but with rainbow camo too

Probably already have them, they are pro Gay rights.

The Rooster

breezy1985 wrote: »

Cool thanks I hadn't really been checking the betting throughout this. I'm not really into betting so when you said "odds dropped" I was worried that meant less chance of Biden winning not the other way round

It means that in the UK, more money has been placed on Biden than on Trump over the last 24 hours.
If someone decided to put £1 million quid on Trump this afternoon, his odds would come in. Wouldn't mean he'd have more or less chance of winning.

Arghus

I thought Trump came out of the blocks quite well. Now, obviously, nothing he said was actually true, but his relentless jabber seemed to have Biden rattled and he looked tired and old in those first 10-15 minutes. I feared an epic collapse by Biden. He managed to rescue it as the debate went on. He's far from inspiring, it's hard to know what he really stands for and his gaffes are not great: he does look and talk like a man who is nearly 80.

But, Trump, is just a horrible being. Endless windbaggery, constant interruption, zero actual substance, blatant lies - just awful. How anyone, right or left, Republican or Democrat, could vote for that is truly beyond me. It never stops being shocking that he's the President. Surely, enough is enough. What a horrible, horrible man.

In short: Trump would be absolutely annihilated by a younger fresher candidate, but, he's so bad that Biden - for all his flaws - probably will do it.

eagle eye

Quin_Dub wrote:

So , whilst neither side could confidently call last night a win , in terms of delivering on the Debate "table stakes" I think Biden did far better.

I agree, three draws is a win for Biden. He just needs to not lose ground to win.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

The Rooster wrote: »

It means that in the UK, more money has been placed on Biden than on Trump over the last 24 hours.
If someone decided to put £1 million quid on Trump this afternoon, his odds would come in. Wouldn't mean he'd have more or less chance of winning.

That's not how it works - if it was, bookie's wouldn't stay in busimess long.

Other factors are taken into account.