2020 the battle of the septuagenarians - Trump vs Biden, Part 2

Quin_Dub

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Proud Boys



Gavin McInnes - "Quite a funny guy online" - really?

Here are some quotes from Mr McInnes










Yeah.. He's Hilarious alright..

I think if you ever watch his videos it's pretty clear he's mostly having a laugh. He is not anywhere in the same universe as Richard Spencer though, despite the smears from the media.

He is non-PC but he is not HATING any particular group.

hynesie08

hynesie08 wrote: »

Pride boys...... Steal their logo and font but have it in the rainbow colours....... That'd be incredible.

I wish the left would be more creative like your suggestion.

That's a much better reaction than suppression and censorship.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

breezy1985 wrote: »

Cool thanks I hadn't really been checking the betting throughout this. I'm not really into betting so when you said "odds dropped" I was worried that meant less chance of Biden winning not the other way round

Odds dropping means getting closer to a certainty. Bides odds dropped from 1.90 to abotu 1.65 (1.00 is dead certainty, 2.00 is a 50/50 chance).
Odds lenghtening or drfiting means less likely to happen.

eagle eye

The VP candidate debates men nothing although it'll be interesting to see if Pence is willing to get down and dirty and drag up Harris' affair with Willie Brown.

The Rooster

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

That's not how it works - if it was, bookie's wouldn't stay in busimess long.

Other factors are taken into account.

I know exactly how it works, and 100% stand over my previous post.
The few people who are interested in such things can google it to see who's right regarding fluctuations in such markets.

1800_Ladladlad

The main thing that got on my tits was Wallace trying to get Trump to condemn the Proud Boys specifically, and as much as people want them to be, they are not white supremacists. Biden stating antifa is not an organisation but an idea was just delusional. Biden had the chance to disavow Antifa and distance himself from them and he just couldn’t do it, instead stating he doesn’t condemn violence. He was directly asked to condemn Antifa rioters actually. Trump should have questioned why Obama and Biden failed to declare the KKK as terrorist org in their 8 years in office? Was it because it was founded by democrats or of its Democrat founding?

Trump didn't "refuse" to denounce white supremacy, as much of the media and social media is now propagating.There has been months of continuous Antifa and BLMs violence, undeniable hoards of evidence to prove this, but still, its white supremacy. He has condemned white supremacists on multiple occasions. The MSM fail to portray this, nor will perpetual anti Trump people accept it. He signed an executive order naming the KKK a terrorist organisation https://nypost.com/2020/09/25/trump-to-designate-kkk-antifa-as-terrorist-groups-in-black-empowerment-plan/amp/ . There aren't many stronger condemnations of white supremacists than that. But Trump could say it 1,000,00 times on prime time tv and the people who don't like him would want 1,000,001.

How many white supremacists do you see burning buildings, rioting, attacking and killing people in the street? It isn’t “white supremacists" ruining cities and killing people. It’s Antifa and BLM.. We have seen weeks of footage showing their anarchy and racist Ideologies but yet Trump is demanded to disavow Proud Boys? What have the PB set fires to. What homes have they destroyed? What black businesses have they destroyed or burned down? What stores have they looted? Where is the evidence of this to match the extensive video evidence of the chaos in the states, as result of BLM and antifa, which shows Proud boys doing the same. And yet we have a member of the PB who was murdered in a co-ordinated assassination by a self confessed member of antifa….. A cold blooded murder. The current leader the Proud Boys is Enrique Tarrio who is missed race. A half black, half Cuban guy lad and the democrats/wallace call it a white supremacist group? TBH I don’t know why Trump said he was “willing to do that” when he was asked to condemn white supremacy as if he hasn’t done it before, that was strange. When he shifted it to antifa because he knew Wallace wasn’t going to push Biden on antifa what so ever, I don’t blame him for doing this as Trump wasn’t only debating Biden.

A person who has the ability to remain neutral should only moderate debates. The US viewer wasn’t even a secondary concern to wallace. Biased media from either side should not have any role in debates in the future. Trump is asked about NY Times story and Biden gets a pass on his own aswell as Hunter. Every time Biden was getting pummelled, Chris shielded him hard. Debated on bidders behalf. Wallace laughing along with Biden also was not a good look. Biden went unchallenged by Wallace on numerous occasions. Allowing Biden to not answering questions or follow up. This is supposed to be a “conservative” mod. Wallace Pushed the “fine people” narrative, and tried working it in when footage shows Trump clarifying what he said but as usual its taken out of context completely to fit the lefts narrative. What was with “community policing”? Is that the democrats round about way of stating defund the police?

And of course Biden used the cameras to his advantage, the numerous scripted, grand standing plea's looking into the camera to talk to the viewers as if they haven’t got a clue. Like he does with black people. When Biden said Trump is the worst President America has ever had, I couldn’t help but facepalm. I would have though the presidents that ok'd slavery maybe? no?

Does Biden think people are that gullible to believe this? “We left him a booming economy. And he caused the recession.” The Obama administration did not leave the economy booming and I think he forgets we are in the middle of a Global pandemic.

Even tho it was a bit of a sh**T show, this was the highlight for me:
https://twitter.com/M2Madness/status/1311132315163258888

Penn

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

The main thing that got on my tits was Wallace trying to get Trump to condemn the Proud Boys specifically

He didn't. He said White Supremacists. It was Biden who said "Proud Boys" when Trump was asking who specifically Wallace wanted him to condemn.

https://twitter.com/axios/status/1311127476391772160?s=20

1800_Ladladlad

Penn wrote: »

He didn't. He said White Supremacists. It was Biden who said "Proud Boys" when Trump was asking who specifically Wallace wanted him to condemn.

https://twitter.com/axios/status/1311127476391772160?s=20

Yeah I mixed that up cheers. Trump saying stand back and stand by was moronic!!!!

Justin Credible Darts

Well that debate only served to reinforce my opinion neither of those clowns are fit to be president,

sadly one of them is getting the job.

breezy1985

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I wish the left would be more creative like your suggestion.

That's a much better reaction than suppression and censorship.

I imagine you would be a fan. Being a bear and all

Overheal

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

Yeah I mixed that up cheers. Trump saying stand back and stand by was moronic!!!!

It wasn't moronic it's the agenda. He wants civil unrest. He think it helps him. He wants people to rush the polls and harass voters and trained poll watchers and poll workers.

And the Proud Boys heard him. They're all over the internet fapping themselves that they have a new commander.

Biden was honestly doing well just to keep his train of thought over constant interruptions. Trump was clearly preying on his speech impediment.

Foxtrol

humberklog wrote: »

Just to say firstly that I'm far from a Trump supporter.

Trump was never going to debate Biden, the dogs on the street know this and the Dems should've known this. But Biben being a weak opponent isn't the problem. Biden is the wrong opponent and by saying that that doesn't mean I think Trump is a particularly strong opponent.

A person can be critical of two opposing teams.

I disagree on Biden. He is far from the perfect candidate but he is a good candidate against Trump. Trump, Rudy, GOP, Right Wing media have tried every trick to attack Biden and his family and have failed to make anything stick. It is obvious Trump wished he was running against Bernie, Warren, etc. The only tactic I saw from Trump last night was trying to get Biden to either associate himself with or attack the left of the party and Biden managed to say the right things to keep both sides happy.

TexasTornado

The debate crystalised all that is wrong in America and increasingly society worldwide in general. Division and willful ignorance.

Biden may win, Trump may win but unless people are prepered to open up and at least have the conversation about where we are headed then we will be back in the same spot in another 4 years.

Foxtrol

Richard Hillman wrote: »

It's a bit mad, Joe Biden is asking people to for him as President, even though we all know he won't actually have much say if he gets in office. The decisions will be all made for him. They'll be electing the very shady inner workings of the democrat party and their vested interests.

Unlike Trump who in his first days of office removed the public disclosure of attendees to the Whitehouse, has given his biggest donors positions that are in complete conflict of interest with their personal businesses, and who has bent over backwards to accept lists of judges from right wing groups.

At least with Trump you know he is the leader.

He is seen as a leader by people who have never worked with a real leader and see power being a person who is loudest.

The party falls in line for what he wants.

He regularly doesn't know what he wants, which has lead to deadlock passing key things for the American people.

You won't be getting into any shady wars.

The guy bombed a general of another country. The only reason that didn't start a war was pure luck.

He won't sign up for shabby trade deals.

His trade deals have been little to no improvement on previous, while having Americans pay billions on tariffs, and the trade deficit has gotten worse.

Immigration will be limited.

This one is true and has made things a nightmare for Irish people there.

astrofool

eagle eye wrote: »

I agree, three draws is a win for Biden. He just needs to not lose ground to win.

All he had to do last night was turn up and be active, polls show him as ahead Trumps support isn't really shifting, and Trump played to his audience again, which is perfect for Biden. Of course the polling could be very wrong, but it's staying steady, is adjusted for the last election, and Trump is getting mired into more controversies, while Biden has none.

The proud boys remark is probably the stupidest thing said in any American presidential debate ever, it will be interesting to see how Trump sets a lower bar for next time.

DrumSteve

astrofool wrote: »

All he had to do last night was turn up and be active, polls show him as ahead Trumps support isn't really shifting, and Trump played to his audience again, which is perfect for Biden. Of course the polling could be very wrong, but it's staying steady, is adjusted for the last election, and Trump is getting mired into more controversies, while Biden has none.

The proud boys remark is probably the stupidest thing said in any American presidential debate ever, it will be interesting to see how Trump sets a lower bar for next time.

The bit people are forgetting is what he said directly after that, to effectively show up at the polls and keep an eye on things.

The guy is a scumbag of the highest order and a terrible, terrible person.

Timberrrrrrrr

eagle eye wrote: »

The VP candidate debates men nothing although it'll be interesting to see if Pence is willing to get down and dirty and drag up Harris' affair with Willie Brown.

And Harris cones right back with stormy daniels.

I think Pence will try avoid that being bought up.

Danzy

Better off going for her history as a Prosecutor and attorney general.

Lots of material there.

Foxtrol

Danzy wrote: »

Better off going for her history as a Prosecutor and attorney general.

Lots of material there.

That doesn't make much sense when they're spending so much time as painting Biden/Harris as weak on Law and Order.

It wouldn't surprise me if they went that direction because their conflicting messaging has been terrible all campaign. They are a month away from the election and have come up with nothing that sticks, everything is either bouncing off, conflicting, or is also a weakness for Trump.

duploelabs

Danzy wrote: »

Better off going for her history as a Prosecutor and attorney general.

Lots of material there.

Hard to do so and then say the GOP is the party of law and order

gmisk

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

And Harris cones right back with stormy daniels.

I think Pence will try avoid that being bought up.

I don't think Pence would want to be in a room alone with a woman tbh....mother wouldn't like it!

I would predict Harris will be extremely strong in any debate. A debate between her and Pence might actually be semi polite

Penn

gmisk wrote: »

I don't think Pence would want to be in a room alone with a woman tbh....mother wouldn't like it!

I would predict Harris will be extremely strong in any debate

Yeah. In 2016 Pence only had to go up against Tim Kaine, someone so bland he's not allowed to be a picture in Guess Who. I think someone of Harris' ability, combined with the administration's record.... I think Pence is in for a rough time.

Deebles McBeebles

astrofool wrote: »

The proud boys remark is probably the stupidest thing said in any American presidential debate ever, it will be interesting to see how Trump sets a lower bar for next time.

Couldn't believe that. Yes, the shouting and bickering was embarrassing but that was another chance for him to disavow white supremacists and again, he didn't. Whole new level.

DrumSteve wrote: »

The bit people are forgetting is what he said directly after that, to effectively show up at the polls and keep an eye on things.

Yep, disgusting. Hopefully the undecided voters will remember that.

eire4

Foxtrol wrote: »

So he couldn't get the party of the 'left' in the US to support his policies but you believe there is widespread support for them?



There is no significant right wing party in Ireland but it doesn't stop the left calling FG it.

If you're calling the democrat supporters too far right then you're narrowing yourself to a tiny proportion of the population.



You're just on your high horse calling things that are life and death for people 'crumbs'.



I'm sorry if you're offended but the 'either get everything I want or I throw a tantrum' mindset is the definition of childishness.



The GOP's long game was to rig the system so they can win with less voters. Your long game is to allow the GOP more and more power to rig the system in a gamble that this group of voters want your model, despite there being no evidence of them on a national level electorally or in polling. It is pure fantasy that you're willing for others to hurt or die to test out.

Again utterly risible that you describe the centre right economically Democratic party as the party of the left. Maybe that is why your confused because you think the Democrats are a left wing party when they are centre right economically.


Agree with you there is no significant right wing party in Ireland thankfully. It is one of the benefits of having a PR system it makes it very difficult for extremist parties like the Republicans in the US to become powerful enough to form a government. I would say Fine Gael is a centre right party economically IMHO but no question they are not some far right extremist party.

The Democratic party has many supporters of different persuasions politically. No way can you paint their voters with one brush. The party itself though economically is centre right.

No worries not offended in the slightest by your insults. So continue to insult away not a bother to me. It is the kind of behaviour I expect from corporate Democrats when people dare to not vote for a party that does not care about the best economic interests of the vast majority of Americans.

Never gone horse riding myself personally. Simply pointing out the facts that the cooperate Democrats have no interest in legislating for the best economic interests of most Americans. All they care about are the wealthiest say top 20% or so. The last 40 years have made that very clear.


No question the Republican party over these past 40 years have abused the American system and lurched as a party further and further to the extreme right. To the point I would say that they are at best IMHO a semi-democratic party. But the Democrats have to look in the mirror too. They have long ignored local and state races to the extent now that most state legislatures and governors in the US are Republican controlled. The have also though nationally not done very much to make the economic lives of most Americans better and they are part and parcel of the corrupt system that keeps DC a duopoly on power in the US. This means when voters who do vote get ticked off with Democrats there is only one place for them to go. The reverse of course does apply.

Economically the Democrats have for the past 40 years legislated mostly for the benefit of the wealthy and helped maintain the corrupt system that has most of DC bought and paid for by the wealthy and major corporations. This time has seen income and wealth inequality spiral to rates not seen since the 19th century. The corporate Democrats vote again and again to increase the obscene defence budget rather then fund programmes that would help most Americans. As long as they continue along the line of being a corporate party then the US will continue to decline as it has done for decades now.

However a return to a more FDR style party and focusing on what genuinely is in most Americans best economic interests can not just be a winner at the ballot box but it is the right thing to do. Now no way things can all get turned around over night. But it can be done. To give an example that is current take the Democratic governor of Illinois Pritzker. Certainly no radical but he won against a Republican with one of his big campaign points being he would end the patently bad flat state tax in Illinois and replace it with a graduated tax that would significantly raise taxes on the wealthy. I guess they need a state constitutional amendment to make that happen and he followed through on his promise and it is on the ballot in Illinois and will go into effect January 1 if pasted which seems likely it will. The measure would see taxes for the wealthy increase a fair bit and either stay the same or decrease for most in Illinois Latest polls have support in the mid 60's range. This is the kind of bold legislating they clearly benefits the majority that Democrats should be moving towards and away from just doing the bidding of the wealthy and major corporations.

briany

How do you 'keep an eye on things' at a polling station? Surely they can't have members of the public skulking around inside livestreaming from their phones, screeching at the people staffing it?

Not much you can do outside except to try and intimidate and harass voters. Are the Proud Boys going to be there insisting on seeing voter ID 'just to check'?

One worry would be Trump mentallers who actually staff those places. I wonder what they'd be capable of doing?

tobefrank321

Trump's been bullying and shutting down everyone for years, using insults like crooked hillary, sleepy joe, or shutting down the media when they ask an awkward question.

So it was beautiful to see Biden tell him to shut up and name call him several times. No one deserved it more. Biden is more than a match for him and landed some nice ones like saying Trump wouldn't know a suburb if he took a wrong turn. It sums up the absolute sham of Trump pretending to be a man of the people. He truly despises most people and is despised in turn.

Cody montana

Person man yelling camera tv.

Cody montana

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Trump's been bullying and shutting down everyone for years, using insults like crooked hillary, sleepy joe, or shutting down the media when they ask an awkward question.

So it was beautiful to see Biden tell him to shut up and name call him several times. No one deserved it more. Biden is more than a match for him and landed some nice ones like saying Trump wouldn't know a suburb if he took a wrong turn. It sums up the absolute sham of Trump pretending to be a man of the people. He truly despises most people and is despised in turn.

He did the same at the Coronavirus briefing, never answered the questions, spewed a load of nonsense or just ignored the questions.

He's not a leader and takes no responsibility.

Danzy

duploelabs wrote: »

Hard to do so and then say the GOP is the party of law and order

Maybe but pointing out that Harris built her career on riding roughshod over young black men in California and now doe political gain is supporting bail campaigns for a movement of of largely rich white activist kids.

Foxtrol

Danzy wrote: »

Maybe but pointing out that Harris built her career on riding roughshod over young black men in California and now doe political gain is supporting bail campaigns for a movement of of largely rich white activist kids.

So he will be saying she has a history of being strong on law and order and will protect 'the suburbs'?