2020 the battle of the septuagenarians - Trump vs Biden, Part 2

Leroy42

I found this tweet thread pretty interesting

Basically, behind all the noise and the disaster of a debate, there are clear differences in the aims of the two candidates, quite apart from their style.

https://twitter.com/NPRinskeep/status/1311331854444826628?s=19

Politico.com also had a good article explaining, in the authors opinion why Trump had no choice but to turn into a shouting playground fight. He has no policies and no plans and so simply cannot afford to let debate happen as it would expose that.

tobefrank321

There are absolutely clear differences between them which got lost in the noise.

Biden is for the Paris Accords, Trump against.
Biden believes in the science behind climate change, Trump doesn't believe it or else believes it but chooses to ignore it.
Biden is for a deal with Iran to stop them enriching uranium, Trump opposes it.
Biden is for Obamacare, Trump against.

There are numerous key differences and Biden is without question the more impressive person and would be a far better leader.

briany

Leroy42 wrote: »

I found this tweet thread pretty interesting

Basically, behind all the noise and the disaster of a debate, there are clear differences in the aims of the two candidates, quite apart from their style.

https://twitter.com/NPRinskeep/status/1311331854444826628?s=19

Politico.com also had a good article explaining, in the authors opinion why Trump had no choice but to turn into a shouting playground fight. He has no policies and no plans and so simply cannot afford to let debate happen as it would expose that.

Trump's response to criticism on his handling of COVID was just childish. Not childish for a politician, but just flat childish. Like, it's insane that this is comings out of the POTUS. Trump makes Homer Stokes look smooth.

Trump's retort was, "I did a better job than you would have!", with no qualifier of that. No how or why.

Let's be quite real here. Does anyone think that Trump would think it was a fair handling if it were a Dem president? The answer to that is: no.

duploelabs

briany wrote: »

Trump's response to criticism on his handling of COVID was just childish. Not childish for a politician, but just flat childish. Like, it's insane that this is comings out of the POTUS. Trump makes Homer Stokes look smooth.

Trump's retort was, "I did a better job than you would have!", with no qualifier of that. No how or why.

Let's be quite real here. Does anyone think that Trump would think it was a fair handling if it were a Dem president? The answer to that is: no.

Given the level of discourse exhibited here by the trumpettes, Trump's level of debate akin to 'I know I am but what about you' is what makes them think that he won the debate

namloc1980

Latest Rasmussen Poll has Biden +8 over Trump. They are notoriously Republican leaning and had Trump level with Biden a few weeks ago! Not a good sign for Trump at all. https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2020/white_house_watch_sep30

dark crystal

briany wrote: »

Trump's response to criticism on his handling of COVID was just childish. Not childish for a politician, but just flat childish. Like, it's insane that this is comings out of the POTUS. Trump makes Homer Stokes look smooth.

Trump's retort was, "I did a better job than you would have!", with no qualifier of that. No how or why.

Let's be quite real here. Does anyone think that Trump would think it was a fair handling if it were a Dem president? The answer to that is: no.

Donald Trump is not fit for the job. Period.

He calls Biden 'not smart' and mocks his education, yet according to his own family, he paid someone to take his college entrance exams for him.

He hasn't got the temperament, the intelligence, the experience to be President. He's corrupt. He's not capable of listening.

Listen to what a former WH chief of Staff talks about here...many of his own staff didn't believe he had the mental acuity to do his job:

https://twitter.com/TomthunkitsMind/status/1311140501777776640

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

The VP candidate debates men nothing although it'll be interesting to see if Pence is willing to get down and dirty and drag up Harris' affair with Willie Brown.

Except it wasn't an affair...

MeMen2_MoRi_

Which one looks smart and has proof that they are smart..

https://preview.redd.it/wh164j8dva851.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&0cf3ddb9

PropJoe10

tobefrank321 wrote: »

There are absolutely clear differences between them which got lost in the noise.

Biden is for the Paris Accords, Trump against.
Biden believes in the science behind climate change, Trump doesn't believe it or else believes it but chooses to ignore it.
Biden is for a deal with Iran to stop them enriching uranium, Trump opposes it.
Biden is for Obamacare, Trump against.

There are numerous key differences and Biden is without question the more impressive person and would be a far better leader.

I think aside from those policy differences, which are totally fair - the main reason why it's vital that Biden wins is that the country needs to start to be brought back together. The only thing that Trump has done is sow division and discord and debase the office of President. Biden is by no means anywhere near a perfect candidate but at least he's capable of standing up and making a unifying, compassionate speech.


That concept is totally alien to Trump. He is not capable of that. People can go on about Biden's long career and his stumbles and mis-statements but the fact is, that country has NEVER been as divided or volatile as it is right now. This is Trump's America and it's a dark, dark place.

sdanseo

Well, that was a shambles.

I think to analyze who "won" (using the term as loosely as possible), you need to look at the potential swing of American moderates rather than gazing at it from an Irish point of view.

There are deep divisions in the states, the country is probably as polarized as it has been since the 60's if not the Civil War - which was mostly fought over slavery.
It's the guys on the fence who will decide the outcome.
Quick aside, to prove nothing will sway the already decided: I am in a discord with a good few Americans most of whom are Trump supporters. For them, last night he knocked it out of the park. If you listened to them he disassembled the man faster than an AR15 would mow down a row of field mice.
The few dissenters are typically far on the other side of the divide, of the sort that would love to make nonbinary toilets a legal requirement and replace food stamps with sex change vouchers.
Polarized isn't even a strong enough word.

There are a few things which team red and team blue voters do have in common. They are considerably more nationalist than the Irish, would both have an overall more draconian, even Darwinist view of crime and punishment, are more insular and typically less aware of foreign matters than citizens of some other countries. They both consider freedoms and liberties enshrined in the constitution to be vitally important, but choose to interpret them in different ways. And all of America is a very individualistic society tending towards a focus on the strength of a character rather than the strength of the policy behind them.

Trump made some grievous errors that will upset a lot of these swing voters.
He failed to condemn white supremacists.
He may have called them to arms, although as unpopular an admission as it might be I suspect that may genuinely have been an exceptionally poor choice of words over egging on a revolution. But perhaps not.
He criticised two veterans including one who is both dead and decorated - possibly the worst sin of them all in terms of the number of people he could offend in one go. And the word "loser" isn't even a calculated or meaningful criticism, it's pure and simple bullying.
Moderate Americans will not like these things and it will boil the blood of many of them.

Biden did himself few favours.
He came across frail and toothless. Americans like strong Presidents. Biden looked like any half decent breath of wind would topple him.
Repeated himself frequently, especially the phrase "Here's the deal".
Address Trump first by his name, not title; then as a clown, then told him to shut up. Think Band of Brothers - salute the officer not the man. Moderates will expect a certain decorum.

Of course the icing on the decorum cake is Trump's behaviour. He acted like a spoilt brat, refusing to stop talking and deliberately arguing with Wallace and interrupting Joe to rattle him and prevent him from making his points. It wasn't bluster and arrogance, it was exponentially worse, it was calculated manipulative, arrogant, morally bankrupt aresehattery of a magnitude designed to prevent the opponent from being able to speak; and that is going to be his downfall.

Overall not surprised to see Biden taking a hefty lead.
On balance, he offended less moderates but neither man earned new votes.

The whole thing made me want to grab a bottle of something golden brown and neck it while watching Reagan or Kennedy orate gracefully on repeat; to drown out all the absurdity.

/rant

eire4

PropJoe10 wrote: »

I think aside from those policy differences, which are totally fair - the main reason why it's vital that Biden wins is that the country needs to start to be brought back together. The only thing that Trump has done is sow division and discord and debase the office of President. Biden is by no means anywhere near a perfect candidate but at least he's capable of standing up and making a unifying, compassionate speech.


That concept is totally alien to Trump. He is not capable of that. People can go on about Biden's long career and his stumbles and mis-statements but the fact is, that country has NEVER been as divided or volatile as it is right now. This is Trump's America and it's a dark, dark place.

I get where your coming from but I cannot agree in terms of the president. IMHO getting rid of him is not the cure in terms of the Republican party because he is just a symptom of the disease that that party has become not the actual disease itself. Get rid of him and the public vulgarity will be gone to a large extent yes but the Republican party will still be the same utterly corrupt party they are. Getting rid of the president will not change who the Republican party are. I would also say in the actual civil war they clearly were more divided then now but no question the US has declined significantly in recent decades and especially since the turn of the century.

PropJoe10

eire4 wrote: »

I get where your coming from but I cannot agree in terms of the president. IMHO getting rid of him is not the cure in terms of the Republican party because he is just a symptom of the disease that that party has become not the actual disease itself. Get rid of him and the public vulgarity will be gone to a large extent yes but the Republican party will still be the same utterly corrupt party they are. Getting rid of the president will not change who the Republican party are. I would also say in the actual civil war they clearly were more divided then now but no question the US has declined significantly in recent decades and especially since the turn of the century.

Completely agree on the Republican party, an organisation overtaken by self serving slugs and narcissists. I was more saying that they need someone at the head of government that at least tries to bring people together. Trump is obviously not that man. Another 4 years of this and the country will be in anarchy.

eire4

PropJoe10 wrote: »

Completely agree on the Republican party, an organisation overtaken by self serving slugs and narcissists. I was more saying that they need someone at the head of government that at least tries to bring people together. Trump is obviously not that man. Another 4 years of this and the country will be in anarchy.

Totally agree another 4 years of this president would be bad not just for the US but the world as well.

Eric Cartman

tobefrank321 wrote: »

There are absolutely clear differences between them which got lost in the noise.

Biden is for the Paris Accords, Trump against.
Biden believes in the science behind climate change, Trump doesn't believe it or else believes it but chooses to ignore it.
Biden is for a deal with Iran to stop them enriching uranium, Trump opposes it.
Biden is for Obamacare, Trump against.

There are numerous key differences and Biden is without question the more impressive person and would be a far better leader.

I would take it the other way, Biden either does or doesn't endorse the green new deal (he got quite confused) which would be a disaster for the economy.
Trump stated that climate change is real and there is a man made element to it which I think is solid enough
Obamacare is a disaster and I don't think putting it back will help, Biden also stated there were 100 million people with pre-existing conditions on which he's wrong.

Cody montana

Presidential debate organizers promise format changes after Tuesday night chaos
The move comes after many criticized the group and the moderator for letting Trump run the show.

duploelabs

Cody montana wrote: »

Presidential debate organizers promise format changes after Tuesday night chaos
The move comes after many criticized the group and the moderator for letting Trump run the show.

Yeah if you think Chris Wallace was ineffectual last night, you should watch some footage of Steve Scully

MadYaker

Danzy wrote: »

Better off going for her history as a Prosecutor and attorney general.

Lots of material there.

How is that going to work with the law & order message of trumps campaign? Are they going to slam her for being too harsh???

Overheal

Rush Limbaugh is bawling about how unfair it is that Trump was 'handcuffed' to the format of debate - one where he agreed ahead of time to act like an adult and be civil.

pjohnson

Overheal wrote: »

Rush Limbaugh is bawling about how unfair it is that Trump was 'handcuffed' to the format of debate - one where he agreed ahead of time to act like an adult and be civil.

Tbf that IS a pretty unfair standard to expect from Trump.

namloc1980

Cody montana wrote: »

Presidential debate organizers promise format changes after Tuesday night chaos
The move comes after many criticized the group and the moderator for letting Trump run the show.

Not sure what can be done when Trump insists on continuously interrupting and being obnoxious.

On another note the amount of crying and moaning by the Trumpists is unreal.

Eric Cartman

pjohnson wrote: »

Tbf that IS a pretty unfair standard to expect from Trump.

ill give you this, that debate was playground level from both sides but moreso trump.

Cody montana

namloc1980 wrote: »

Not sure what can be done when Trump insists on continuously interrupting and being obnoxious.

On another note the amount of crying and moaning by the Trumpists is unreal.

Cut the microphone?

namloc1980

Yikes, someone is not a happy chappy today. While Biden is doing a train tour of Western Pennsylvania and Ohio, Trump is in the White House rage tweeting.

.

Overheal

Speaking of dementia, Trump woke up this morning and can't remember who the Proud Boys even are

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/trump-tries-to-clean-up-bizarre-debate-remarks-i-dont-know-who-the-proud-boys-are/

sdanseo

Edit -in the interests of not doing exactly what people accuse Trump of and saying things that arent completely true;
to be fair, he was cued to say proud boys. He asked Wallace and Biden what they wanted him to denounce and they cued him with that phrase.
It's at least plausible he hasn't a clue who they are because he's well stupid enough to forget the briefings he must surely have had telling him about them.

However, even though ABC think he did, he still didn't denounce them. He was asked repeatedly to do so, and all he said was "any group like that, you have to denounce them"
That's not clear and unambiguous, which speaks volumes, when he was asked to be clear and unambiguous.

Baffling. Absolutely baffling.

Foxtrol

Fox News knows Trump is watching and know how short his attention span is so they boiled down their advice to a level and format you'd use for a young child.

https://twitter.com/colbyhall/status/1311286222082408449?s=20

Brian?

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I would take it the other way, Biden either does or doesn't endorse the green new deal (he got quite confused) which would be a disaster for the economy.
Trump stated that climate change is real and there is a man made element to it which I think is solid enough
Obamacare is a disaster and I don't think putting it back will help, Biden also stated there were 100 million people with pre-existing conditions on which he's wrong.

Biden clearly stated, for the umpteenth time, he doesn’t support the green new deal.

Deshawn

Brian? wrote: »

Biden clearly stated, for the umpteenth time, he doesn’t support the green new deal.

I don't believe that there are 100 million people with pre existing conditions in the United States

Brian?

Deshawn wrote: »

I don't believe that there are 100 million people with pre existing conditions in the United States

How is this a response to my post?

A broken legs can be a pre existing condition, so I don’t think 100m is that outlandish

Foxtrol

Deshawn wrote: »

I don't believe that there are 100 million people with pre existing conditions in the United States

Well facts don't care what you believe.

https://twitter.com/NPR/status/1311119739499020293?s=20