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2020 the battle of the septuagenarians - Trump vs Biden, Part 2

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    #992
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,619 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    It is clearly a sign that the Trump team are worried. Traditionally, debates offer little to incumbents or front runners. At best they can maintain their advantage.

    The debates were good for Trump in 2016 since the expectations were so low. Once he didn't completely fall apart, and he came pretty close in the 1st debate, it would be seen that he did well against the vastly more experienced HC.

    So asking for a debate, when he has spent the past four years actively avoiding talking to what he considers to be hostile press only supports the idea that they are failing around looking for something.

    The hope would be that he would bully and beat Biden in a debate. And IMO, he probably is right to think that. Biden would look to be staesman like, stick to facts and talking points, whilst Trump will try to bully and shout and demean and pull him into the gutter. THat is an area that Trump undoubtedly has the advantage.

    That is not to say that I think Biden will necessarily do badly, just that the possibility, on both sides, exists. But with Biden leading the polls, there is simply no need to increase any risks.

    What I would say is that the Walace interview and then particularly the Axios interview gives a big insight into how to totally derial Trump. HC decided to almost ignore Trump and stick the her talking points, but it is clear that by directly challenging Trump, and following up, it is very easy to get him totally off centre and he starts to flap about and becomes more and more incoherent.

    Absolutely agree with what you are saying.

    I'm not sure though how Biden can apply the "Wallace/Swan" template to the debates - I don't think they can ask questions of each other - They can contradict each other in real time , but Trump will deny anything Biden says and equally will say that everything that Biden offers is a lie or "fake news" etc.

    It would be down to the moderator to challenge blatant falsehoods which they might not do - This is a large part of the reason Trump submitted his "list" , if he gets one of those on the list he'll get a largely free-hand to say whatever he wants unchallenged.

    If they do not chose one of his preferences he will start to dismiss the debates as a "Crooked Media set-up" well in advance of the actual debates. That way if he is seen to have lost he will fall back on the "crooked media out to get me" trope and if he does even passably well he'll tout it as a "huge victory in the face of incredible adversity blah blah blah".


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    #993
    ollkiller
    Registered Users Posts: 864 ✭✭✭ollkiller


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    and let us not forget

    Interviewer: she is charged with child sex trafficking

    Trump : Big Deal!

    Yup. And the court documents earlier in this thread of the rape of a 13 year old girl. The co defendants. Epstein and Trump.


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    #994
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,491 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    ollkiller wrote: »
    Yup. And the court documents earlier in this thread of the rape of a 13 year old girl. The co defendants. Epstein and Trump.

    Ghislaines case will help set the stage for Trumps case.


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    #995
    ollkiller
    Registered Users Posts: 864 ✭✭✭ollkiller


    Overheal wrote: »
    Ghislaines case will help set the stage for Trumps case.

    Here's hoping.


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    #996
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,663 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    ollkiller wrote: »
    Here's hoping.

    There is no way that Trump will face that. An Ex-POTUS up a statutory rape charges? No way.

    Just as Prince Andrew will be protected in the UK, the US will protect an Ex-POTUS


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    #997
    MadYaker
    Registered Users Posts: 12,222 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    If only trump cared about coronavirus as much as he cares about TikTok, he might have gotten re-elected.


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    #998
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,491 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    There is no way that Trump will face that. An Ex-POTUS up a statutory rape charges? No way.

    Just as Prince Andrew will be protected in the UK, the US will protect an Ex-POTUS

    I wouldn't be so sure. The federal government won't pursue federal crimes, war crimes etc. against a POTUS, but a state sure can pursue them for state offenses. Bill Clinton settled his state level lawsuit with Paula Jones in the waning days before he left office and gave up his law license as part of that deal. The alternative was he was still going to face the lawsuit when he walked out.


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    #999
    Chris_Heilong
    Registered Users Posts: 4,974 ✭✭✭Chris_Heilong


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    There is no way that Trump will face that. An Ex-POTUS up a statutory rape charges? No way.

    Just as Prince Andrew will be protected in the UK, the US will protect an Ex-POTUS

    I want to see what happens to Bill Clinton, he was on the flight charter and a witness came forward saying he was seen with two young girls on the island.


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    #1000
    SimonTemplar
    Registered Users Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭SimonTemplar


    MadYaker wrote: »
    If only trump cared about coronavirus as much as he cares about TikTok, he might have gotten re-elected.

    Yes, you might be correct. Had Trump achieved an Italy level of virus suppression, it would be considered a massive success both at home and abroad; and something the democrats would struggle to argue against.

    In the debates, Trump would have been like Johnson during his debate with Corbyn and pivot everything back to a single issue, in this case Trump's successful handling of the virus.

    But that didn't happen. He wasn't shrewd enough to see how politically advantageous the situation could have been in an election year.

    Instead, he made some of the worst mistakes a leader could make during this pandemic.


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    #1001
    Chris_Heilong
    Registered Users Posts: 4,974 ✭✭✭Chris_Heilong


    Carfacemandog wrote: »
    So keeping white supremacists in key white house roles should be entirely unacceptable, and you wouldn't be supportive of a president that does?

    I would have to see proof without assumptions, who is a white supremacists? I will call out people that are wrong no matter the politics.


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    #1002
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    The hope would be that he would bully and beat Biden in a debate. And IMO, he probably is right to think that. Biden would look to be staesman like, stick to facts and talking points, whilst Trump will try to bully and shout and demean and pull him into the gutter. THat is an area that Trump undoubtedly has the advantage.

    That is not to say that I think Biden will necessarily do badly, just that the possibility, on both sides, exists. But with Biden leading the polls, there is simply no need to increase any risks.

    What I would say is that the Walace interview and then particularly the Axios interview gives a big insight into how to totally derial Trump. HC decided to almost ignore Trump and stick the her talking points, but it is clear that by directly challenging Trump, and following up, it is very easy to get him totally off centre and he starts to flap about and becomes more and more incoherent.

    Biden is one of the best 1v1 debaters out there.

    In 2012 it was him who brought momentum back to the campaign after Obama lost convincingly against Romney in their first debate.

    He’s the polar opposite to Hilary in that he’ll let his opponent talk and then be ready to jump in, interrupt and rebuttal with facts. He completely frustrated Paul Ryan back in 2012 and Bernie Sanders only a few months ago. If Trump tries to tell a lie about Biden in a debate, Biden won’t let it go like Hilary did and wait their turn. Back in 2012 the GOP cried about the number of times Biden interrupted Ryan because they knew that he had completely frustrated them.

    People who think Biden will be bullied by anyone in a 1v1 debate clearly doesn’t know anything about how the man debates.


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    #1003
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 22,009 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Faugheen wrote: »
    Biden is one of the best 1v1 debaters out there.

    In 2012 it was him who brought momentum back to the campaign after Obama lost convincingly against Romney in their first debate.

    He’s the polar opposite to Hilary in that he’ll let his opponent talk and then be ready to jump in, interrupt and rebuttal with facts. He completely frustrated Paul Ryan back in 2012 and Bernie Sanders only a few months ago. If Trump tries to tell a lie about Biden in a debate, Biden won’t let it go like Hilary did and wait their turn. Back in 2012 the GOP cried about the number of times Biden interrupted Ryan because they knew that he had completely frustrated them.

    People who think Biden will be bullied by anyone in a 1v1 debate clearly doesn’t know anything about how the man debates.


    He's not even of sound mind anymore...


    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/06/joe-biden-latino-african-american-remark-392354


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    #1004
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,491 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    ELM327 wrote: »
    He's not even of sound mind anymore...


    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/06/joe-biden-latino-african-american-remark-392354

    How does this lead you to conclude he is not of sound mind, exactly?


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    #1005
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 22,009 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Overheal wrote: »
    How does this lead you to conclude he is not of sound mind, exactly?


    Considering it's his second anti black comment in the past few weeks, in a time when we should be fighting for racial equality.


    It's as cringeworthy as his "if you're black and dont vote for me you aint black" clanger. He needs a carer and a dusting of Ben Gay. Not to be given an open mic and the key to the nuclear codes.


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    #1006
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    ELM327 wrote: »
    He's not even of sound mind anymore...


    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/06/joe-biden-latino-african-american-remark-392354

    Absolutely nothing to do with what I just said. He has already clarified what he meant.

    Only 4 months ago he beat Bernie Sanders convincingly.

    In that time frame, Trump has suggested drinking disinfectant and boasted about knowing the difference between a camera and a TV, and made up comments by doctors telling him how amazing he was that he could tell the difference between a camera and a TV.

    Who is the one not of sound mind here?


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    #1007
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 22,009 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Faugheen wrote: »
    Absolutely nothing to do with what I just said. He has already clarified what he meant.

    Only 4 months ago he beat Bernie Sanders convincingly.

    In that time frame, Trump has suggested drinking disinfectant and boasted about knowing the difference between a camera and a TV, and made up comments by doctors telling him how amazing he was that he could tell the difference between a camera and a TV.

    Who is the one not of sound mind here?
    The one who is President and not the one showing signs of dementia.


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    #1008
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    ELM327 wrote: »
    The one who is President and not the one showing signs of dementia.

    Ah, not even posting in good faith.

    So pathetic.


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    #1009
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,935 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Faugheen wrote: »
    Ah, not even posting in good faith.

    So pathetic.

    They've not really given themselves any other option. They're stuck defending Trump after he's proven himself to be nothing more than an extraordinarily mentally feeble old bigot. He advocated injecting bleach as an antiviral therapy and they're so invested in him that they can't even see it so they continue to defend him.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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    #1010
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,491 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Considering it's his second anti black comment in the past few weeks, in a time when we should be fighting for racial equality.

    If that's your bar, well:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/29/us/looting-starts-shooting-starts.html

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/06/21/democrats-critics-slam-trump-racist-remarks-tulsa-rally/3231914001/

    https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/trump-rally-tulsa-oklahoma/h_441e0800ae5f9ebf9812edd5dd862a4b

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/30/politics/donald-trump-racist-monuments/index.html

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-racism-white-nationalism-republicans/2020/07/04/2b0aebe6-bbaf-11ea-80b9-40ece9a701dc_story.html

    https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/07/trump-is-losing-2020-polls-racism-black-lives-matter.html


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    #1011
    SimonTemplar
    Registered Users Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭SimonTemplar


    Biden has been prone to gaffes for decades. It isn't anything new. This latest one will just be added to the list. I'm not saying this is an ideal quality for a presidential candidate to have, but to suggest it is indicative of dementia is very inaccurate.


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    #1012
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,491 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    They've not really given themselves any other option. They're stuck defending Trump after he's proven himself to be nothing more than an extraordinarily mentally feeble old bigot. He advocated injecting bleach as an antiviral therapy and they're so invested in him that they can't even see it so they continue to defend him.

    [allcaps]"He didn't say 'bleach' he said 'disinfectant' you guys! Jesus Christ."[/allcaps]


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    #1013
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 22,009 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Overheal wrote: »
    If that's your bar, well:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/29/us/looting-starts-shooting-starts.html

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/06/21/democrats-critics-slam-trump-racist-remarks-tulsa-rally/3231914001/

    https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/trump-rally-tulsa-oklahoma/h_441e0800ae5f9ebf9812edd5dd862a4b

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/30/politics/donald-trump-racist-monuments/index.html

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-racism-white-nationalism-republicans/2020/07/04/2b0aebe6-bbaf-11ea-80b9-40ece9a701dc_story.html

    https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/07/trump-is-losing-2020-polls-racism-black-lives-matter.html


    Those posts are pro law and order, not anti black.
    A lot of the looting thugs were whites, and a lot of the victims, and business owners that were targeted, were black.


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    #1014
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,491 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    SimonTemplar wrote: »
    Biden has been prone to gaffes for decades. It isn't anything new. This latest one will just be added to the list. I'm not saying this is an ideal quality for a presidential candidate to have, but to suggest it is indicative of dementia is very inaccurate.

    I'm more excited by the fact that Biden can accept criticism and admit human error in a mature and dignified manner:

    https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1291540507416559617?s=20

    https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1291540508796428290?s=20


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    #1015
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 22,009 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Overheal wrote: »
    [allcaps]"He didn't say 'bleach' he said 'disinfectant' you guys! Jesus Christ."[/allcaps]




    Look, you don't have to 100% align yourself to everything someone says.
    Are you ok with biden's creepy unwanted touches of children?
    creepy-uncle-joe-videos-viral-biden-sexual-abuse-11419.jpg?w=620


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    #1016
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Those posts are pro law and order, not anti black.
    A lot of the looting thugs were whites, and a lot of the victims, and business owners that were targeted, were black.

    Didn’t see any tweets about the white lads storming the Michigan parliament with guns. Nor did I see any federal forces being sent to disperse them

    Once the black lads take a stand though...


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    #1017
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,619 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    ELM327 wrote: »
    He's not even of sound mind anymore...


    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/06/joe-biden-latino-african-american-remark-392354

    Is this really all that Trump and his supporters have?

    I honestly haven't heard a single cogent argument against Biden yet.

    All we have is this incredibly tired trope about his mental health - From the team that brought us "Yo-Semites , Yo-Seminites" in just the last few days.

    Where are the actual arguments about Policy?

    All Trump has managed so far are the well worn scare mongering of "He'll take our guns" and just yesterday "He'll take your churchs and your God".

    Remind me again what Trumps plan is for the next 4 years?

    He got asked AGAIN what his priorities were on Fox & Friends 2 days ago - Which I think is the 5th time he's been asked the question in recent weeks.

    And again , he flubbed and couldn't give an answer - He babbled something about "bringing back the economy" that he just flushed and "making our Nato partners pay their share" and that was it.

    So - Absolutely NOTHING new , at least I guess he didn't mention the wall he didn't build.


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    #1018
    frag420
    Registered Users Posts: 6,158 ✭✭✭frag420


    ELM327 wrote: »
    He's not even of sound mind anymore...


    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/06/joe-biden-latino-african-american-remark-392354

    Person, woman, man, camera, TV...


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    #1019
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 22,009 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Faugheen wrote: »
    Didn’t see any tweets about the white lads storming the Michigan parliament with guns. Nor did I see any federal forces being sent to disperse them

    Once the black lads take a stand though...
    Were they burning buildings? Targeting police? No i didnt think so.
    Good attempt, 3/10.


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    #1020
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,491 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Look, you don't have to 100% align yourself to everything someone says.
    Are you ok with biden's creepy unwanted touches of children?

    [/IMG]

    Doesn't sway my vote, no. He's a genteel old man who lost his 13 month old daughter and wife in a car wreck. I can understand him being eccentric and adoring with kids and young women. It's plainly nonsexual. Trump meanwhile has a well documented history of sexualizing women, even underage girls, in a disturbing and oftentimes explicitly stated manner:


    https://twitter.com/TheDailyEdge/status/1285713278572941313?s=20


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    #1021
    pjohnson
    Registered Users Posts: 23,764 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Look, you don't have to 100% align yourself to everything someone says.
    Are you ok with biden's creepy unwanted touches of children?
    creepy-uncle-joe-videos-viral-biden-sexual-abuse-11419.jpg?w=620
    Where do you stand on Trumps support for Epsteins woman then?



    Every single "critique" of Biden that Trump fans can manage overlooks an often worse example of that very same thing from their saviour Donnie.


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