2020 the battle of the septuagenarians - Trump vs Biden, Part 2

sydthebeat

Trump gets a free pass cos he's very stupid, no??

Kidchameleon

Feel free to take it with a pinch of salt. Hopefully more (verifiable) information comes out in the coming days. Whats the general consensus re. 1000's of fake drivers licences coming in at election time? Could cause some vote fraud?

ohnonotgmail

The Unbearables wrote: »

Biden is showing obvious signs of stage 1 dementia. Right now I'd say it's 50/50 if he makes the debates or not.

post up your medical qualifications and we will take what you say seriously.

Leroy42

threeball wrote: »

I can't stand Trump but I think you're expecting these debates to be actual debates. Trump doesn't debate, he bullies, he insults, he lies. He doesn't engage in any two way conversation, hes just not capable of that. And Americans lap up soundbites and put downs. It won't really matter what points Biden covers if the soundbites are what make the headlines and the tweets.

For the record, Biden didn't beat Sanders in the debates either. Anyone who wasn't dyed in the wool democrat or terrified of commies thought Sanders won them convincingly.

Agree on the likely process of the debates.

Don't agree on the Sanders thing. He he clearly won the debates then why didn't the DNC voters vote for Sanders. It seems the 'left' is always obsessed with the moral victory. The point of the debates was to win votes in the primary. Biden did it, Sanders did not.

HC clearly 'won' the debates in 2016, when looked at in any rational debate review. However, clearly Trump was the winner as he came out of them looking better than when he went in.

duploelabs

The Unbearables wrote: »

Biden is showing obvious signs of stage 1 dementia. Right now I'd say it's 50/50 if he makes the debates or not.

So you got a ban for posting this crap on the politics forum, do you think it'll be equally welcomed here?

Mr E

The Unbearables wrote: »

Biden is showing obvious signs of stage 1 dementia. Right now I'd say it's 50/50 if he makes the debates or not.

Mod: Post proof or never mention it again (you'll get a thread ban)

Quin_Dub

Here's the thing about the debates.

First off - Biden will of course be there for all of the debates , that is not a question nor has it ever been.

But Trump has essentially handed Biden a win in the debates - Certainly in the 1st one.

He and his surrogates have spent months and months telling everyone that Biden is incapable of speaking , that he's not fit enough for office , that he's suffering severe mental decline etc. etc. etc. they have lowered the bar so far in terms of what would be construed as a "good performance" from Biden

If any undecided voters (if any truly still exist) actually are buying in to the "Biden isn't well" angle , all Biden has to do to utterly blow up what is essentially the only Trump angle on him is not drool or walk into walls.

Biden doesn't even have to try to win the first debate , he already has.

dwayneshintzy

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Feel free to take it with a pinch of salt. Hopefully more (verifiable) information comes out in the coming days. Whats the general consensus re. 1000's of fake drivers licences coming in at election time? Could cause some vote fraud?

How?

Quin_Dub

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Feel free to take it with a pinch of salt. Hopefully more (verifiable) information comes out in the coming days. Whats the general consensus re. 1000's of fake drivers licences coming in at election time? Could cause some vote fraud?

Almost certainly no.

How exactly would the holder of a fake drivers licence get registered to vote??

Does the fake drivers licence also come with a valid social security number etc.?

It's fake ID - Used to get served in bars , not for voting?

American Teenagers pay top dollar for good fake ID - They are likely no different than fake gucci bags - Someone was planning to use them to make money , not influence elections.

Leroy42

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Here's the thing about the debates.

First off - Biden will of course be there for all of the debates , that is not a question nor has it ever been.

But Trump has essentially handed Biden a win in the debates - Certainly in the 1st one.

He and his surrogates have spent months and months telling everyone that Biden is incapable of speaking , that he's not fit enough for office , that he's suffering severe mental decline etc. etc. etc. they have lowered the bar so far in terms of what would be construed as a "good performance" from Biden

If any undecided voters (if any truly still exist) actually are buying in to the "Biden isn't well" angle , all Biden has to do to utterly blow up what is essentially the only Trump angle on him is not drool or walk into walls.

Biden doesn't even have to try to win the first debate , he already has.

It almost the exact reversal of 2016, when Trump was painted (correctly btw) as so useless that people expected HC to simply walk the debates and that Trump might actually concede and drop out!

So, when Trump actually managed to not 'grab em by the pussy' in the middle of the debate it was seen as a win.

mcmoustache

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Feel free to take it with a pinch of salt. Hopefully more (verifiable) information comes out in the coming days. Whats the general consensus re. 1000's of fake drivers licences coming in at election time? Could cause some vote fraud?

Where did this story come from? Was it from the guy who said that 3 million voted illegally in 2016?

dwayneshintzy

I fail to see how fake IDs being seized is evidence of voter fraud anyway......there are many more steps to being able to vote than simply having a fake ID. And many more obvious examples of why people would WANT a fake ID, than using it to commit felony voter fraud.

Quin_Dub

mcmoustache wrote: »

Where did this story come from? Was it from the guy who said that 3 million voted illegally in 2016?

There are actual press reports about a load of fake Drivers licences being seized at O'Hare in Chicago but even the press release from Customs and Border Protection makes no suggestion of a link to Voter fraud.

Just the usual stuff fake ID is used for - Underage drinking, smuggling etc.

Igotadose

Quin_Dub wrote: »

There are actual press reports about a load of fake Drivers licences being seized at O'Hare in Chicago but even the press release from Customs and Border Protection makes no suggestion of a link to Voter fraud.

Just the usual stuff fake ID is used for - Underage drinking, smuggling etc.

As the article says, it's been going on for a long time. As a one-time US teenager in, *cough*, the 1970's, I can confirm it's been going on a long time. Speaking for an old friend, they can be very hit and miss but you can find good ones. You had to be 18 to buy alcohol back then, 21 in PA where I attended University but we sent shoppers to Camden, NJ to get around that.

Now, fast forward to 2020. They're being made in China (somewhat unsurprising a lot of fake things come from there.) The number of US teenagers is much higher today, than in the mid-1970's, when everyone else (yes, really, ghosts of mom and dad, not me no way nope) had one. So, I think this is much ado about nothing; bad reporting in the article, they never asked what's the average number seized in a given year, is this a spike, has been going on for years and only in this election season did it get a news click?

frag420

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Almost certainly no.

How exactly would the holder of a fake drivers licence get registered to vote??

Does the fake drivers licence also come with a valid social security number etc.?

It's fake ID - Used to get served in bars , not for voting?

American Teenagers pay top dollar for good fake ID - They are likely no different than fake gucci bags - Someone was planning to use them to make money , not influence elections.

Aint that the truth! When I was on my first J1 in the late 90's I was able to "change" my dob on my passport. A guy I knew was head of security for some big clubs at the time and he could not spot how I did it. Word got out and I made a tidy sum that summer not only "changing" the DOB on several Irish passports but also charging to change it back before they had to leave again in Sep!

Anyways sorry to go off topic but the memory just came back to me with all the talk about fake ID's...:cool:

threeball

Leroy42 wrote: »

Agree on the likely process of the debates.

Don't agree on the Sanders thing. He he clearly won the debates then why didn't the DNC voters vote for Sanders. It seems the 'left' is always obsessed with the moral victory. The point of the debates was to win votes in the primary. Biden did it, Sanders did not.

HC clearly 'won' the debates in 2016, when looked at in any rational debate review. However, clearly Trump was the winner as he came out of them looking better than when he went in.

Sanders was never getting the DNC vote. Hes a commie in their eyes. He was robbed against Clinton in a number of states. They have no interest in putting him in the whitehouse and stopping the flow of money to big business. The DNC aren't much different than the GOP, slightly less religious, slightly less pro 2nd amendment, slightly more pro choice but theres very littel else to divide them, at least before the tea partiers and Trump got onboard.

Trump never wins any debate but he does land the punches that do damage and that stick in the mind.

Quin_Dub

threeball wrote: »

Sanders was never getting the DNC vote. Hes a commie in their eyes. He was robbed against Clinton in a number of states. They have no interest in putting him in the whitehouse and stopping the flow of money to big business. The DNC aren't much different than the GOP, slightly less religious, slightly less pro 2nd amendment, slightly more pro choice but theres very littel else to divide them, at least before the tea partiers and Trump got onboard.

Trump never wins any debate but he does land the punches that do damage and that stick in the mind.

That's probably true , but will those "punches" win him new support or just get him a few more "Hell Yeahs" from already committed Trump voters?

He needs more voters , not fresh soundbites for his existing support.

Timberrrrrrrr

threeball wrote: »

Sanders was never getting the DNC vote. Hes a commie in their eyes. He was robbed against Clinton in a number of states. They have no interest in putting him in the whitehouse and stopping the flow of money to big business. The DNC aren't much different than the GOP, slightly less religious, slightly less pro 2nd amendment, slightly more pro choice but theres very littel else to divide them, at least before the tea partiers and Trump got onboard.

Trump never wins any debate but he does land the punches that do damage and that stick in the mind.

With the way the world is at the moment the debates will be held in studio with no audience, without his MAGA zealots cheering him on i think he will get flustered badly.

alchemist33

I suspect the debates will change few minds. Biden supporters will claim a won because he as more logical and eloquent. Trump supportes will claim a win because he used more insults and nicknames.

salmocab

alchemist33 wrote: »

I suspect the debates will change few minds. Biden supporters will claim a won because he as more logical and eloquent. Trump supportes will claim a win because he used more insults and nicknames.

That’s about the size of it, everyone will be on here claiming victory the next day and sadly the only losers will be the American.

Cody montana

alchemist33 wrote: »

I suspect the debates will change few minds. Biden supporters will claim a won because he as more logical and eloquent. Trump supportes will claim a win because he used more insults and nicknames.

All Biden had to do is run on trumps failure.
He has many to pick from.

Trump is going to lie, deflect, not answer questions and shout over Biden.
But Biden needs to keep pushing to get answers out of Trump.
And then trump will fail.

threeball

Quin_Dub wrote: »

That's probably true , but will those "punches" win him new support or just get him a few more "Hell Yeahs" from already committed Trump voters?

He needs more voters , not fresh soundbites for his existing support.

I think its clear his goose is cooked and he won't get enough supporters barring a complete disaster for Biden. My point was in relation to the assertion that Biden would soundly win the debates. You can't win a debate when there is no debating. Its boxer vs a dirty streetfighter who'll bite and gouge his way through. Nothing is beneath Trump. If he thought holding Biden down and tea bagging him would win him votes he'd give it a go live on stage.

Danzy

sydthebeat wrote: »

Trump gets a free pass cos he's very stupid, no??

He has always been like he is.

Biden is very different from last year and amazingly so from when he was VP.

There is no certainty that Biden will know who he is debating.

mcmoustache

Danzy wrote: »

He has always been like he is.

There are lots of clips of Trump from the 90s and 2000's that tell a different story. While he has always been a cnut, he wasn't anywhere near as incoherent back then.

Timberrrrrrrr

Danzy wrote: »

He has always been like he is.

Biden is very different from last year and amazingly so from when he was VP.

There is no certainty that Biden will know who he is debating.

Another idiotic post questioning Bidens mental health :rolleyes:

rosser44

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Another idiotic post questioning Bidens mental health :rolleyes:

It's the drum that Trump fans have to keep beating because they have no other attack options. Never mind the fact that he is infinitely more eloquent than trump and a much better public speaker despite his lifelong speech impediment .

Oh and he can ride a bike and walk down a ramp without looking like a geriatric on his last legs.

Quin_Dub

rosser44 wrote: »

It's the drum that Trump fans have to keep beating because they have no other attack options. Never mind the fact that he is infinitely more eloquent than trump and a much better public speaker despite his lifelong speech impediment .

Oh and he can ride a bike and walk down a ramp without looking like a geriatric on his last legs.

It is telling that there is an utter lack of specificity about the arguments against Biden.

Beyond the "He's not well" line of attack that is so utterly ridiculous all you have are fairly generic "Socialism!!!!" and "He'll take yer guns!" stuff that has been leveled in some sense or other at every Democrat for decades.

If it's a "Trump Referendum" it's done , he hasn't a hope.

They are desperately trying to shift the narrative away from Trump and make it about what a potential Biden Presidency would look like , they begin to have an outside chance , but so far they have failed miserably at that task.

And the biggest culprit in that is Trump himself , he simply cannot get out of his own way and keeps pushing himself into the spot light to remind people of how bad he is at the job of running the country.

Faugheen

threeball wrote: »

I think its clear his goose is cooked and he won't get enough supporters barring a complete disaster for Biden. My point was in relation to the assertion that Biden would soundly win the debates. You can't win a debate when there is no debating. Its boxer vs a dirty streetfighter who'll bite and gouge his way through. Nothing is beneath Trump. If he thought holding Biden down and tea bagging him would win him votes he'd give it a go live on stage.

Actually I don’t think anyone said Biden would win soundly.

It was in response to people saying Trump will destroy him based on absolutely nothing, and clearly with no idea of what Biden will bring.

dwayneshintzy

Danzy wrote: »

He has always been like he is.

Biden is very different from last year and amazingly so from when he was VP.

There is no certainty that Biden will know who he is debating.

What are some examples you can provide of Biden's dementia?

The Unbearables

Jay Fleitman, MD. Practising in patient care for over 40 years.

https://www.gazettenet.com/Columnist-Jay-Fleitman-35536697

Biden is in big trouble.

Democrats need to start putting together a plan B if Joe doesn't make the debates or he breaks down live during the debate.