2020 the battle of the septuagenarians - Trump vs Biden, Part 2

drunkmonkey

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

by muzzles i presume you mean the masks that will help put an end to a pandemic that killed 1500 people yesterday?

That's an untested in the real world theory, there is 0 evidence to back up such a claim in a real world setting. Antidotal evidence is showing them to have the opposite effect. Large scale testing happening at the moment, results should be out soon.
Don't point me to a labatory test to back up your assumption.

Quin_Dub

drunkmonkey wrote: »

How will Bidens muzzles for all go down with voters, he's coming across as a scared old man.

According to Fox News - Really really well.

Q:- Do you favour requiring everyone to wear a face mask outside of their home?

Response - 74% YES , 21% NO

Q - Do you have a favourable or unfavourable view of people who wear masks?

Response - 80% Favourable , 13% Unfavourable

For "Require everyone to wear a mask" question , here's the demographic breakdown for support

Men - 72%
Women -75%
White - 72%
Black- 80%
Hispanic - 74%

Under 45 - 70%
Over 45 - 77%
Over 65 - 80%

Democrat - 90%
GOP - 58%
Independent - 67%

White Evangelical - 66%
Suburbanite - 77%
Urban - 83%
Rural - 64%

Biden Supporters - 90%
Trump Supporters - 54%


Seems to me like one candidate has a firm sense of what the people want on this matter , the other hasn't got a clue.

Which one is which do you think???

Doctor Jimbob

drunkmonkey wrote: »

That's an untested in the real world theory, there is 0 evidence to back up such a claim in a real world setting. Antidotal evidence is showing them to have the opposite effect. Large scale testing happening at the moment, results should be out soon.
Don't point me to a labatory test to back up your assumption.

No evidence that wearing masks will help stop a virus that's spread by droplets from coughing/sneezing?

I assume you're on a wind-up mission here.

drunkmonkey

drunkmonkey wrote: »

That's an untested in the real world theory, there is 0 evidence to back up such a claim in a real world setting. Antidotal evidence is showing them to have the opposite effect. Large scale testing happening at the moment, results should be out soon.
Don't point me to a labatory test to back up your assumption.

There's actually considerable research done on that at this stage. They're found to be highly effective in terms of reducing transmission. You might feel better in the conspiracies forum.

ohnonotgmail

drunkmonkey wrote: »

That's an untested in the real world theory, there is 0 evidence to back up such a claim in a real world setting. Antidotal evidence is showing them to have the opposite effect. Large scale testing happening at the moment, results should be out soon.
Don't point me to a labatory test to back up your assumption.

what do you mean by the opposite effect and what antidotal(sic) evidence have you seen?

drunkmonkey

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

No evidence that wearing masks will help stop a virus that's spread by droplets from coughing/sneezing?

Show me any real world evidence, there is none. It's coming soon.

drunkmonkey

Deleted User wrote: »

There's actually considerable research done on that at this stage. They're found to be highly effective in terms of reducing transmission. You might feel better in the conspiracies forum.

In a labatory. There has been no real world testing, it's happening at the moment and the data will be with the WHO soon.

Doctor Jimbob

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Show me any real world evidence, there is none. It's coming soon.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0843-2?ContensisTextOnly=true

I'd suggest Nature is a more credible source than whatever blog or YouTube channel you're getting your info from.

Doctor Jimbob

drunkmonkey wrote: »

In a labatory. There has been no real world testing, it's happening at the moment and the data will be with the WHO soon.

A lot of research tends to take place in laboratories. Is there any particular reason you're dismissing it or is it just because it doesn't suit your argument?

Igotadose

drunkmonkey wrote: »

In a labatory. There has been no real world testing, it's happening at the moment and the data will be with the WHO soon.

Wait, we can trust the WHO now? Good to know!

drunkmonkey

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0843-2?ContensisTextOnly=true

I'd suggest Nature is a more credible source than whatever blog or YouTube channel you're getting your info from.

I asked not to be furnished labatory results, it's not the real world.

To repeat there is no real world results yet. Trials are under way.

ohnonotgmail

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I asked not to be furnished labatory results, it's not the real world.

To repeat there is no real world results yet. Trials are under way.

so what "opposite effect" do masks produce and what is your source for that claim?

Igotadose

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I asked not to be furnished labatory results, it's not the real world.

To repeat there is no real world results yet. Trials are under way.

Slow day for trolling I guess. What a ridiculous position.

Doctor Jimbob

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I asked not to be furnished labatory results, it's not the real world.

To repeat there is no real world results yet. Trials are under way.

Why not? Because they don't back up your nonsense?

drunkmonkey

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

so what "opposite effect" do masks produce and what is your source for that claim?

Cases go up. It's been noted in the UK. Our cases are also rising.
It's the wrong thread for this discussion my question was how voters will react to Bidens mask push yesterday.
I suggest you go watch yesterdays debate from the covid advisory committee if you would like to hear some fact based educated information.

drunkmonkey

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Why not? Because they don't back up your nonsense?

Nonsense is believing Johnny & Mary with their dirty chinstraps are helping the fight, there a million miles from labatory test results.

drunkmonkey

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Cases go up. It's been noted in the UK. Our cases are also rising.
It's the wrong thread for this discussion my question was how voters will react to Bidens mask push yesterday.
I suggest you go watch yesterdays debate from the covid advisory committee if you would like to hear some fact based educated information.

You're attributing this to masks with zero basis...

Quin_Dub

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Cases go up. It's been noted in the UK. Our cases are also rising.
It's the wrong thread for this discussion my question was how voters will react to Bidens mask push yesterday.
I suggest you go watch yesterdays debate from the covid advisory committee if you would like to hear some fact based educated information.

And you got the answer - Universal support across every single Demographic in the US , including a Majority of Trump Supporters.

ohnonotgmail

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Cases go up. It's been noted in the UK. Our cases are also rising.
It's the wrong thread for this discussion my question was how voters will react to Bidens mask push yesterday.
I suggest you go watch yesterdays debate from the covid advisory committee if you would like to hear some fact based educated information.

so wearing masks causes covid cases to go up? what covid advisory committee are you referring to because the irish one has certainly made no such claim.

Hoop66

drunkmonkey wrote: »

That's an untested in the real world theory, there is 0 evidence to back up such a claim in a real world setting. Antidotal evidence is showing them to have the opposite effect. Large scale testing happening at the moment, results should be out soon.
Don't point me to a labatory test to back up your assumption.

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Cases go up. It's been noted in the UK. Our cases are also rising.
It's the wrong thread for this discussion my question was how voters will react to Bidens mask push yesterday.
I suggest you go watch yesterdays debate from the covid advisory committee if you would like to hear some fact based educated information.

Are you *actually* a drunk monkey?

Fyi, the official guidance of the cdc is to wear masks. The only addition to that info is they should not have valves as they're ineffective.

https://www.self.com/story/mask-with-valve-cdc-recommendation

drunkmonkey

Deleted User wrote: »

You're attributing this to masks with zero basis...

Another wrong assumption, let's see what the Denmark study reveals. Mandatory masks here was a political move to appease the media nothing more, there was and still not science to say it's a good idea.
https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/masking-lack-of-evidence-with-politics/

Leroy42

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Another wrong assumption, let's see what the Denmark study reveals. Mandatory masks here was a political move to appease the media nothing more, there was and still not science to say it's a good idea.
https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/masking-lack-of-evidence-with-politics/

Interesting. Do you think masks make the situation worse?

What was the point of our parents telling us to put our hands in front of our mouths when we cough or use a hanky when we sneeze.

I guess they, and all parents, have been part of this enormous conspiracy to control the populations across the world as well?

But that isn't really the issue. in the US, the CDC are the established agency to deal with issues like this. And as such to simply dismiss their recommendations without any evidence is beyond reckless. The real issue is that Trump has been sending out mixed signals as of now, and actually totally contrary signals up to a few weeks ago which confused what was actually, from the individuals POV, quite a straight forward siutation.

THat has led to a lack of clear message, and people feeling like they can make up their own minds and then tell others how their opinion is valuable.

Quin_Dub

Leroy42 wrote: »

Interesting. Do you think masks make the situation worse?

What was the point of our parents telling us to put our hands in front of our mouths when we cough or use a hanky when we sneeze.

I guess they, and all parents, have been part of this enormous conspiracy to control the populations across the world as well?

But that isn't really the issue. in the US, the CDC are the established agency to deal with issues like this. And as such to simply dismiss their recommendations without any evidence is beyond reckless. The real issue is that Trump has been sending out mixed signals as of now, and actually totally contrary signals up to a few weeks ago which confused what was actually, from the individuals POV, quite a straight forward siutation.

THat has led to a lack of clear message, and people feeling like they can make up their own minds and then tell others how their opinion is valuable.

It's also shown that Trump actually holds on real opinions on anything.

He was for masks a few weeks ago saying that it was "Patriotic to wear masks" , now though he's changed his tune.

Not because there's any updated data to alter his opinion , no he changed his mind simply because it's the opposite of what Biden suggests.

It speaks to his inability to negotiate throughout his Presidency - He takes this all encompassing "you're either with us or you're against us" mentality into everything.

He simply cannot imagine a scenario where he would say "I agree with Joe Biden on this , but not on these other things", It's all or nothing with him. He is incapable of finding common ground with anyone.

Carfacemandog

I wonder what avid Trump supporter Herman Cain has to say about not wearing masks?

drunkmonkey

Leroy42 wrote: »

Interesting. Do you think masks make the situation worse?

What was the point of our parents telling us to put our hands in front of our mouths when we cough or use a hanky when we sneeze.

I guess they, and all parents, have been part of this enormous conspiracy to control the populations across the world as well?

But that isn't really the issue. in the US, the CDC are the established agency to deal with issues like this. And as such to simply dismiss their recommendations without any evidence is beyond reckless. The real issue is that Trump has been sending out mixed signals as of now, and actually totally contrary signals up to a few weeks ago which confused what was actually, from the individuals POV, quite a straight forward siutation.

THat has led to a lack of clear message, and people feeling like they can make up their own minds and then tell others how their opinion is valuable.

Go read the evidence, listen to the experts, wait for better test results. You obviously haven't read the link or the report from Norway contained within it.

Are you asking for my personal opinion, based on my research the mandatory mask policy in all shops is pointless and dangerous as I'm not seeing any clinically acceptable usage of them.
The policy was not guided by factual data and was politically motivated.

I'd be with Trump on his opinion to leave the decision with the individual.

drunkmonkey

Carfacemandog wrote: »

I wonder what avid Trump supporter Herman Cain has to say about not wearing masks?

You should ask him his Twitter handle is alive.

Leroy42

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Go read the evidence, listen to the experts, wait for better test results. You obviously haven't read the link or the report from Norway contained within it.

Are you asking for my personal opinion, based on my research the mandatory mask policy in all shops is pointless and dangerous as I'm not seeing any clinically acceptable usage of them.
The policy was not guided by factual data and was politically motivated.

I'd be with Trump on his opinion to leave the decision with the individual.

Yeah, you didn't answer the question. Do you think masks actually increase the risk of the virus spreading?

And what do you think of Trumps changing position on it. He was first against it then claimed it was patriotic (which of course means anybody that refused to wear them is no better than Colin Kaepernick and the like) but now seems to be have gone off them again. Which is it?

Do you also hold the same view that hand washing is pointless?

drunkmonkey

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Go read the evidence, listen to the experts, wait for better test results. You obviously haven't read the link or the report from Norway contained within it.

Are you asking for my personal opinion, based on my research the mandatory mask policy in all shops is pointless and dangerous as I'm not seeing any clinically acceptable usage of them.
The policy was not guided by factual data and was politically motivated.

I'd be with Trump on his opinion to leave the decision with the individual.

How is wearing a mask in a shop dangerous? I ask because I work in a shop and wear one all day everyday.

Quin_Dub

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Go read the evidence, listen to the experts, wait for better test results. You obviously haven't read the link or the report from Norway contained within it.

Are you asking for my personal opinion, based on my research the mandatory mask policy in all shops is pointless and dangerous as I'm not seeing any clinically acceptable usage of them.
The policy was not guided by factual data and was politically motivated.

I'd be with Trump on his opinion to leave the decision with the individual.

I've read the article you linked to and indeed the articles that it links to.

NONE of them say that masks increase the chance of Infection - NOT ONE.

There is a level debate about how much benefit they provide or that their effectiveness is potentially reduced as a results of incorrect usage etc.

The Norway study basically suggests that at a low level of community infection the benefits of wearing masks are possibly negligible. I'm not sure that the current US Hotspots would qualify as "Low levels of infection" though.

They do say that in the case of universal mask wearing that it's possible that the people that suffer adverse effects from wearing masks (Breathing difficulties , Skin irritation etc.) would outweigh the number of Covid infections it avoids

But as I said absolutely NONE have remotely suggested that wearing masks increases the risk of getting infected.

tl;dr

Masks might not reduce Covid Infefctions significantly, but they absolutely do not make it any worse