2020 the battle of the septuagenarians - Trump vs Biden, Part 2

Kidchameleon

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I believe Hillary should get a visit also. I hope during the second term, President Trump makes good on his promise to have her investigated. In my opinion she obstructed justice relating to the private server debacle.

*yawn *, he's had 4 years and if he had anything on her they'd have gone after her. The lock her up narrative is long spent.

mcmoustache

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I believe Hillary should get a visit also. I hope during the second term, President Trump makes good on his promise to have her investigated. In my opinion she obstructed justice relating to the private server debacle.

She was investigated for years, including by the FBI.

It's not that long ago. You should be able to remember these things and if not, you could always check with the internet.

Kidchameleon

Overheal wrote: »

Demonstrate it, then. And I don't mean with a photo op or pardoning someone who is long dead. What has Trump done to further women's rights?

OK, how about giving a woman of color a job?

mcmoustache

Kidchameleon wrote: »

OK, how about giving a woman of color a job?

By your rationale, Hitler had nothing against the Jews. We know that to be true since he was photographed with them.

Kidchameleon

mcmoustache wrote: »

She was investigated for years, including by the FBI.

It's not that long ago. You should be able to remember these things and if not, you could always check with the internet.

Yes. The FBI under Comey (who was in Hillary's pocket) found that that "Clinton did not act with criminal intent". Yeah, sure.

mcmoustache

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Yes. The FBI under Comey (who was in Hillary's pocket) found that that "Clinton did not act with criminal intent". Yeah, sure.

By the way, do you think that every member of an administration should go to jail for having classified info on private devices or on the cloud?

Carfacemandog

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I believe Hillary should get a visit also. I hope during the second term, President Trump makes good on his promise to have her investigated. In my opinion she obstructed justice relating to the private server debacle.

You'll agree that Trump should have his own daughter Ivanka and her husband Jared Kushner investigated and imprisoned for the exact same offense, right?

Overheal

Kidchameleon wrote: »

OK, how about giving a woman of color a job?

...

Maybe I should clue you in a bit better to the hill you plan to die on. Here is a list someone compiled after Trump's first 100 days in office, a list of 100 items that Trump had already done that eroded women's rights or dis-enabled them:

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/women/reports/2017/04/25/430969/100-days-100-ways-trump-administration-harming-women-families/

Couple highlights:

Eliminated child care for military families: Trump’s federal hiring freeze forced at least two military bases to suspend enrollment at military child care facilities when they were unable to hire child care providers. Service members depend on high-quality child care to perform their duties each day.8

Endangered women’s retirement security: Trump instructed the U.S. Labor Department to delay implementing an Obama-era rule requiring retirement advisers to put clients first. Women live longer and make less income over their lifetimes, which make them more vulnerable to poverty in retirement.9
Failed to advance equal pay: Trump’s administration made no movement on equal pay in the first 100 days, despite referencing support for equal pay occasionally throughout his campaign. Trump offered no concrete action to strengthen equal pay protections.10

Threatens child care assistance: Child care assistance currently reaches just 1 in 6 eligible children, but the Trump budget would cut it further, which could mean even fewer children served and lead low-income families to leave the workforce.11

Stalled paid family and medical leave: Despite Trump’s campaign promises and some fleeting general references to paid family leave, there has been no concrete action on advancing a comprehensive paid family and medical leave program. Nothing in the Trump budget includes a serious commitment to any form of paid family and medical leave, such as continuing funding for state grants to explore paid leave options.12

Impairs FMLA enforcement: The Trump budget would cut the U.S. Department of Labor by 21 percent, or $2.5 billion. If implemented, these cuts would seriously impair robust enforcement of critical labor and work-family protections, such as the Family and Medical Leave Act, or FMLA.13
Cuts nurse training: The Trump budget would cut $403 million in health profession and nurse training programs, jobs that are disproportionately held by women workers.14

Drops LGBTQ seniors and people with disabilities from data collection: The Trump administration is proposing to end vital data collection programs about LGBTQ seniors and people with disabilities, erasing evidence of disparities and potential discrimination in federal programs. Lesbian and bisexual women are more likely to live in poverty than heterosexual women, and transgender women are 3.8 times more likely to live in poverty than the general population.15

Slashes nutrition assistance for WIC: The Trump budget would slash $200 million from the Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants, and Children, or WIC, and threaten other nutrition initiatives with a 21 percent cut to the U.S. Department of Agriculture.19

Sparked an increase in bullying and anxiety: Per the Southern Poverty Law Center, Trump’s hateful rhetoric has led to increased bullying in public schools and increased anxiety rates among children of color.20

Cuts after-school programs: Despite his campaign rhetoric on child care, Trump’s budget would eliminate $1.2 billion for 21st Century Community Learning Centers and summer programs, which provide before- and after-school care for 1.6 million children nationwide and make it possible for parents go to work.21

Slashes Head Start funding and jobs: Trump’s budget proposes an 18 percent cut to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, which would kick 160,000 children out of Head Start programs and kill jobs for 40,000 people, mostly women, if applied to Head Start.22

Harmed transgender students: The Trump administration rescinded Obama-era guidance to keep transgender students in schools, including equal access to bathrooms and other school facilities and programs.23

Strips public school funding: Trump and Education Secretary DeVos want to use vouchers to channel funds away from public schools toward private schools—which are not held to same quality, equity, anti-discrimination, and accommodation standards. In addition, voucher programs can discriminate against students in admissions based on gender, religion, race, and income.24
Promotes vouchers that are especially harmful for kids with disabilities: Children with disabilities often must sign away their rights as guaranteed by the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act, or IDEA, to receive a voucher. In Florida, a similar system left mothers fighting with school systems to get the children access to services and combat discrimination.25

Eliminates Boys and Girls Clubs: The Trump budget proposes eliminating the Corporation for National and Community Service, which funds programs such as AmeriCorps, Teach For America, and the Boys and Girls Clubs of America. Boys and Girls Clubs serve approximately 1.8 million girls every year.26

Abandons efforts to tackle sexual assault and harassment in education: Appointee Candice Jackson will be acting secretary in the U.S. Department of Education Office for Civil Rights until there is a nominee for that position, which requires Senate confirmation. Her appointment raises serious concerns about how the department will address sexual assault and harassment in education, and she has criticized programs designed to help people of color.27

Endangers homeless youth: Youth often become homeless after fleeing family conflict and abuse or after being forced out of their homes because of rejection of their LGBTQ identity. With anti-LGBTQ Housing and Urban Development Secretary Ben Carson, it is unlikely that the Trump administration will take comprehensive action to help some of the most vulnerable young people.28

Threatens safety of LGBTQ students in schools: Secretary DeVos’ troubling history signals that the U.S. Department of Education may not fulfill its duty to protect the rights of LGBTQ students. Her family’s foundation has donated hundreds of thousands of dollars to anti-gay groups that push conversion therapy.29

Denies women reproductive, educational, and counseling services by limiting Title X availability: Trump signed a bill to overturn Obama-era protections for Title X grantees, allowing states to block Title X funding for providers that also offer abortion with nonfederal funds, including Planned Parenthood. Title X funding provides critical reproductive, educational, and counseling services related to family planning and contraception to 4 million clients each year.33

Attacks Planned Parenthood: The American Health Care Act would deny Planned Parenthood clinics Medicaid reimbursements for serving low-income patients. Planned Parenthood is a front-line provider for underserved communities, serving approximately 2.5 million patients in 2014.34

Endangers funds for Zika research: While the Trump budget would set aside funds for a new Federal Emergency Response Fund that would support rapid response needs to emerging public health threats such as the Zika virus, it would cut funding to the National Institutes of Health, or NIH, by $5.8 billion. Cuts to the NIH could undermine long-term efforts to adequately address public health concerns by affecting research in key areas of women’s health, including vaccine and treatment discovery efforts related to Zika virus transmission.35

Brought back the Global Gag Rule: One of Trump’s first actions as president reinstated and expanded the Global Gag Rule, which prevents recipients of U.S. foreign aid from offering any information, referrals, services, or advocacy regarding abortion care—even if they do so with separate funding sources. The Global Gag Rule will lead to more maternal deaths, more unintended pregnancies, and higher rates of unsafe abortion.36

Halted family planning funds abroad: Trump administration cut U.S. funding to the U.N. Population Fund, which works on women’s rights worldwide, maternal health, family planning, and gender equity programs.37

Interferes with abortion care: Trump’s health care bill, the American Health Care Act, would interfere with the patient-provider relationship and restrict women’s choices by denying abortion coverage through the private insurance market.38

Threatened maternity coverage by nominating Seema Verma: Trump’s pick to run Medicare and Medicaid, Seema Verma, has argued that maternity coverage should be optional for insurers. And the American Health Care Act would make that happen.39

Cuts funding for teen pregnancy prevention: The Trump budget proposes a $50 million reduction in funding for the Teen Pregnancy Prevention Program, which works with organizations across the United States to implement evidence-based, proven programming.40

Limits coverage of abortion by calling for the Hyde Amendment to become permanent: Both Trump and Vice President Mike Pence have promised the make the Hyde Amendment permanent. The Hyde Amendment is a restriction on Medicaid coverage of abortion, renewed annually by the federal appropriations process. Exceptions are permitted in the limited cases of rape, incest, and life of the woman. Codifying the amendment would set a dangerous precedent and permanently subject women who receive Medicaid to the restrictions without a regular review of their impact.41

Expands religious exemptions: A leaked draft executive order of the Trump administration included sweeping religious exemptions to allow federal contractors to deny services based on religion, permitting religiously affiliated federal contractors to fire LGBTQ employees, sanction workplace discrimination, and restrict access to preventive health services, including contraception, for women. Furthermore, this executive order would impose restrictions on adoption for LGBTQ families, deny access to abortion, interfere with doctor-patient relationships, and promote misinformation about reproductive health care.42

Slashes health and human services: The Trump budget proposes a $15 billion reduction in funding for the office responsible for implementing the Affordable Care Act, or ACA, and ensuring that women and families have access to vital health services. Such cuts would limit access to reproductive health care under Medicaid and Medicare, as well as strip funding for the NIH, the Food and Drug Administration, and the Center for Disease Control and Prevention.43

Attacks abortion rights: Trump ran on the promise to nominate a Supreme Court justice who would “automatically” overturn Roe v. Wade. Neil Gorsuch—his eventual nominee and now Supreme Court justice—has a history of arguing against Roe’s legal foundation, refused to state a clear position on Roe in his confirmation hearing, and admitted that he and Trump discussed abortion in his prenomination interview.49

Puts religious views of employers before workers: Justice Gorsuch’s confirmation risks weakening the rights of working women. As an appellate judge, he ruled that a corporation was a person who has the First Amendment right to freedom of religion. Therefore, an employer’s religious beliefs can trump employees’ religious beliefs, and an employer can prevent an employee from using health insurance to cover contraception because of the employer’s religious beliefs.50

Threatens the legal rights of LGBTQ people: Gorsuch’s confirmation to the Supreme Court is a blow to the rights of LGBTQ workers and families. He criticized the court’s ruling in favor of marriage equality and refuses to say whether he believes that LGBTQ people should be a protected class. In addition, Gorsuch has argued that the religious beliefs of employers should come before employees, and overly broad religious exemptions mean his appointment could significantly erode the rights of LGBTQ people in employment, housing, health care, and other key areas of life. 51

Defended lies about Planned Parenthood: While Gorsuch was on the 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, he defended the governor of Utah’s attempt to defund Planned Parenthood because of false accusations that the organization was selling fetal tissue.52

Cuts the National Domestic Violence Hotline: Trump’s budget proposes cutting the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services budget by 18 percent. If that cut is applied to the National Domestic Violence Hotline, it would mean that more than 200,000 calls for help would go unanswered.55
Failed to oppose sexual assault: Jeff Sessions was confirmed as attorney general despite refusing to say that nonconsensual groping constitutes sexual assault, contrary to the U.S. Justice Department’s definition.56

Refused to fight sexual assault in schools: In her nomination hearing, now-Secretary of Education DeVos said it would be “premature” to commit to maintaining the department’s guidance aimed at combating sexual assault in schools.57

Defended accused sexual harassers: In an Oval Office interview, Trump defended conservative commentator Bill O’Reilly from sexual harassment allegations despite evidence that Fox has already paid more than $13 million to settle five claims against O’Reilly. Trump’s assumption that the complaints were false reveals his instinct to doubt women who experience harassment and assault and mirrors the attitudes that make it hard for victims to come forward. Sadly, this is only the latest example of Trump defending harassers and echoes his support of former Fox executive Roger Ailes.58

Cuts violence against women programs: Trump proposed Justice Department cuts that could affect Violence Against Women Act, or VAWA, program funding and civil rights enforcement. VAWA serves survivors of domestic and intimate partner violence, supports efforts to reduce sexual assault, and helps indigenous and tribal communities affected by violence. In addition to the proposed cuts, there are reports that Trump may be considering eliminating the Office on Violence Against Women entirely.59

Endangered Muslim women: After the election, news outlets reported a spike in anti-Muslim bigotry and attacks—many targeting women wearing hijabs. The Council on American-Islamic Relations reports “tremendous levels of fear” among American Muslims due to Trump.60

Silences victims of domestic abuse: Amid Trump’s immigration crackdown, unauthorized immigrant women experiencing intimate partner violence face the impossible choice of seeking protection and risking deportation or enduring continued abuse. In February, a Border Patrol agent arrested a woman who came to an El Paso courthouse seeking a protective order. Police in several major cities say reports of domestic violence and sexual abuse by Latinos have already dropped precipitously, and prosecutors have been forced to drop domestic violence prosecutions because victims are afraid to cooperate.61

Cuts requirement that insurers cover domestic violence screenings: Under the American Health Care Act, insurers would have the option to stop covering preventive care, including access to birth control, breast-feeding support, and domestic violence screening and counseling.62

Allowed contracting with companies with sexual assault violations: By undoing the Fair Pay and Safe Workplaces Executive Order, Trump eliminated a ban that kept federal contractors from using forced arbitration clauses for sexual assault, sexual harassment, or discrimination allegations. The clauses can help employers hide claims from the public, limit remedies for victims, and make it harder to ensure claims are fairly considered.63

Broke promise not to deport DACA recipients: Despite repeated statements that his administration would not target immigrants who gained legal status through President Obama’s Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals, or DACA, program, about a dozen DACA recipients are currently in federal custody. And in April, Juan Manuel Montes became the first known DACA recipient with active status to be deported by Trump.78

Carried out immigration raids, causing prenatal stress: The immigration raids carried out by the Trump administration could have harmful effects on birth outcomes. A study found that stress created by immigration raids is linked to an increase in premature births and low birth weights.79

Threatened to separate families seeking asylum: Trump’s Secretary of Homeland Security John Kelly has at times threatened to split up families at the border—families fleeing extreme violence in nations with some of the highest rates of violence against women and girls. In addition to being morally wrong, the plan would be incredibly costly.80

....so I think you'll have to do somewhat better than 'look at this black woman he done hired'

Kidchameleon

Carfacemandog wrote: »

You'll agree that Trump should have his own daughter Ivanka and her husband Jared Kushner investigated and imprisoned for the exact same offense, right?

I never said Hillary should be imprisoned. I said she should be investigated. Ivanka and Jared did not commit the same offense. Clinton dealt with classified information.

mcmoustache wrote: »

By the way, do you think that every member of an administration should go to jail for having classified info on private devices or on the cloud?

No. They should be investigated and disciplined accordingly IMHO.

Overheal

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I never said Hillary should be imprisoned. I said she should be investigated.

She already was.

ohnonotgmail

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I never said Hillary should be imprisoned. I said she should be investigated. Ivanka and Jared did not commit the same offense. Clinton dealt with classified information.



No. They should be investigated and disciplined accordingly IMHO.

what information do you think jared and ivanka deal with?

namloc1980

ELM327 wrote: »

But that's not relevant, as, the us being a union of states, most states did not vote for Hilary. As you well know.

That's not relevant either. The Electoral College is ultimately what matters, not how many states you win or lose. JFK and Jimmy Carter for instance won the Electoral College but won less States than their opponent.

Kidchameleon

namloc1980 wrote: »

That's not relevant either. The Electoral College is ultimately what matters, not how many states you win or lose. JFK and Jimmy Carter for instance won the Electoral College but won less States than their opponent.

I think you missed this:

namloc1980 wrote: »

Trump is holding Cuomo responsible for Covid deaths in New York. He is projecting very hard here: the President who has overseen 175k deaths.

As Governor of New York, is Cuomo not ultimately responsible for his states response to the pandemic? What specifically did Trump do or not do that led to New York being so hard hit?

Consider some of Cuomo's moves early on in the pandemic:

March 25th:

https://www.propublica.org/article/fire-through-dry-grass-andrew-cuomo-saw-covid-19-threat-to-nursing-homes-then-he-risked-adding-to-it

On March 25, 2020, Cuomo and the New York State Department of Health issued an advisory requiring the admission of patients to nursing homes who test positive for the coronavirus and barred testing prospective nursing home patients. This order was revoked on May 10 after widespread criticism from medical experts. By then, as many as 4,500 COVID-19 infected patients had been sent to nursing homes in NY state. Over 6,000 New York state nursing home residents have died of COVID as of June 2020.

March 28th:

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/03/28/coronavirus-gov-andrew-cuomo-rips-possible-new-york-travel-ban/2934494001/

New York's governor on Saturday ripped suggestions by President Donald Trump that he might institute a ban on New Yorkers' travel to other states amid the coronavirus outbreak, and Cuomo threatened to sue Rhode Island if it continues to seek out New Yorkers entering its borders.

"I don't believe that any federal administration could be serious about physical lockdowns on parts of states across this country," Cuomo said on CNN. "I don't believe it's legal. It would be economic chaos."

https://www.propublica.org/article/two-coasts-one-virus-how-new-york-suffered-nearly-10-times-the-number-of-deaths-as-california

“No city in the state can quarantine itself without state approval,” Cuomo said of de Blasio’s call for a shelter-in-place order. “I have no plan whatsoever to quarantine any city.”

Cuomo’s conviction didn’t last. On March 22, he, too, shuttered his state.

ArmaniJeanss

ELM327 wrote: »

Nothing has changed, I am pro choice.
Abortion is not an easy choice but as a man my role is to shut up and let women and doctors decide the best healthcare for women.


You don't have to be a pro life hick to be a trump supporter.

Does Donald Trumps stated aim to appoint Supreme Court justices to overturn Roe v Wade not bother you?
Especially as the two current justices most likely to retire/die in the next four years (RBG and Breyer) are supportive of women's rights in this area and their replacements under a Trump presidency would almost certainly not be.

You were a commendably strong supporter of the pro-choice side in the Irish referendum, so I'd be surprised if you'd be blasé about it now.

Kidchameleon

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Yes. The FBI under Comey (who was in Hillary's pocket) found that that "Clinton did not act with criminal intent". Yeah, sure.

He announced an investigation 2 weeks before the election which doesn't seem like the behaviour of a man in her pocket. You're pushing a conspiracy with no basis, are you gonna move QAnon next?

Kidchameleon

Deleted User wrote: »

He announced an investigation 2 weeks before the election which doesn't seem like the behaviour of a man in her pocket. You're pushing a conspiracy with no basis, are you gonna move QAnon next?

That's true, I redact the "in her pocket" comment so. The rest stands.

Overheal

Kidchameleon wrote: »

That's true, I redact the "in her pocket" comment so. The rest stands.

Again though she's been investigated, and they keep turning up nothing.

ollkiller

Overheal wrote: »

....so I think you'll have to do somewhat better than 'look at this black woman he done hired'

Wont quote the whole post. Bravo. I hope you sent him some burn cream...

Kidchameleon

Kidchameleon wrote: »

That's true, I redact the "in her pocket" comment so. The rest stands.

So the investigation was entirely legitimate... So it's reasonable to conclude that there's nothing to investigate.

ohnonotgmail

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Does Donald Trumps stated aim to appoint Supreme Court justices to overturn Roe v Wade not bother you?
Especially as the two current justices most likely to retire/die in the next four years (RBG and Breyer) are supportive of women's rights in this area and their replacements under a Trump presidency would almost certainly not be.

You were a commendably strong supporter of the pro-choice side in the Irish referendum, so I'd be surprised if you'd be blasé about it now.

owning the libs is more important.

Irishman80

Not the best decision to have Bill Clinton speaking at the Convention tonight.

Especially now as these images break.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8639501/amp/Bill-Clinton-smiles-receiving-neck-massage-Jeffrey-Epstein-victim.html?__twitter_impression=true

Professor Moriarty

Irishman80 wrote: »

Not the best decision to have Bill Clinton speaking at the Convention tonight.

Especially now as these images break.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8639501/amp/Bill-Clinton-smiles-receiving-neck-massage-Jeffrey-Epstein-victim.html?__twitter_impression=true

Nope. They are old images being reprinted and this is an old story. The woman in question, Chauntae Davis, who was scathing about her treatment at the hands of Epstein, said this about Bill Clinton and the massage:

"Although the image looks bizarre, President Clinton was a perfect gentleman during the trip and I saw absolutely no foul play involving him."

timsey tiger

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Trump pardons Susan B Anthony:



https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/18/us/politics/trump-susan-b-anthony-pardon.html


Fantastic gesture by the president.

I'd be impressed if he pardoned Snowden, even for the wrong reasons.

This is kind of a nothing burger, other than the irony of Trump pardoning somebody for illegal voting. I guess given that she was a rich white racist he has no problem with her voting fraud.

Overheal

Good thing for his former DHS Chief, that Trump is too incompetent to suicide him:

https://twitter.com/gma/status/1295687236856492032?s=21

This is nothing but pure trouble for the Trump camp.

Irishman80

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Nope. They are old images being reprinted and this is an old story. The woman in question, Chauntae Davis, who was scathing about her treatment at the hands of Epstein, said this about Bill Clinton and the massage:

"Although the image looks bizarre, President Clinton was a perfect gentleman during the trip and I saw absolutely no foul play involving him."

First time I'd seen them.

Chauntae Davis was sex-trafficked and raped by Epstein. It's really not a good look for Clinton to be flying around the world on a plane called the "Lolita" Express while getting messages from the victims of sex trafficking.

Professor Moriarty

Irishman80 wrote: »

First time I'd seen them.

Chauntae Davis was sex-trafficked and raped by Epstein. It's really not a good look for Clinton to be flying around the world on a plane called the "Lolita" Express while getting messages from the victims of sex trafficking.

In hindsight, no.

Kidchameleon

Overheal wrote: »

This is nothing but pure trouble for the Trump camp.

Need more info. Apparently Trump has never even met the guy.

Overheal

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Need more info. Apparently Trump has never even met the guy.

What info do you require? From the tweet/interview you have name, position, information, and testimony of conversations he had with the president and of policy initiatives.

Eric Cartman

Irishman80 wrote: »

First time I'd seen them.

Chauntae Davis was sex-trafficked and raped by Epstein. It's really not a good look for Clinton to be flying around the world on a plane called the "Lolita" Express while getting messages from the victims of sex trafficking.

even before the Epstein thing Bill would have been a pretty toxic choice anyway , now after it with a lot of evidence pointing towards bill having abused some of epsteins victims he's absolutely the last person any candidate should be wheeling out, especially with so many questionable images of Biden touching young girls inappropriately.

and no the response to this is not "but trump" if anyone feels like challenging this post id appreciate it being done on its own merit and not just more coal on the 'blame Donald' fire

Professor Moriarty

Eric Cartman wrote: »

even before the Epstein thing Bill would have been a pretty toxic choice anyway , now after it with a lot of evidence pointing towards bill having abused some of epsteins victims he's absolutely the last person any candidate should be wheeling out, especially with so many questionable images of Biden touching young girls inappropriately.

and no the response to this is not "but trump" if anyone feels like challenging this post id appreciate it being done on its own merit and not just more coal on the 'blame Donald' fire

Would you have a link to this evidence?