2020 the battle of the septuagenarians - Trump vs Biden, Part 2

Professor Moriarty

Rjd2 wrote: »

Yes and no.

Demographics are not good for the GOP but tbf Trump was doing ok with Hispanics and not as bad as Romney with black males as Romney did.

I think the other major issue is those who fund the GOP are devoted to free markets etc, while someone like Tucker would likely run as a big government type Republican.

Meh , we probably get Laura Loomer v Michael Bloomberg in 2024.

Nah, I think Bernie will finally get his chance. He'll only be 82.

Professor Moriarty

joseywhales wrote: »

You can see through Carlson in about 10 seconds. Conjecture, straw man, argue by extremes, more hypotheticals, don't make points just ask questions without the opportunity for anyone to respond and of course never ever provide evidence, apart from selective snippets with no context. This is American TV news.

He rarely gives the opportunity to those he attacks to argue with him. Anyone could seem convincing in such a doctored environment with no opposition. He is basically pointless as a human being.

"just ask questions" aside, you could be describing Trump.

Rjd2

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

"just ask questions" aside, you could be describing Trump.

What makes him quite formidable is when he talks about the ills about the obsession about "free markets" he actually does sometimes make sense.

His solutions are probably best not thought about but the ability to now and then talk complete sense clearly adds to his appeal and makes his racism etc easier to sell and for the left much more formidable than many run of the mill conservatives like Cruz and Rubio who may run in 2024.

He has a hugely successful tv show and numerous adoring elements of right wing media who adore him , he doesn't need to expose himself to someone who can shut him down. Trump a much dumber person got murdered on policy by Hilary and we see how that worked out.:rolleyes:

Igotadose

Rjd2 wrote: »

What makes him quite formidable is when he talks about the ills about the obsession about "free markets" he actually does sometimes make sense.

His solutions are probably best not thought about but the ability to now and then talk complete sense clearly adds to his appeal and makes his racism etc easier to sell and for the left much more formidable than many run of the mill conservatives like Cruz and Rubio who may run in 2024.

He has a hugely successful tv show and numerous adoring elements of right wing media who adore him , he doesn't need to expose himself to someone who can shut him down. Trump a much dumber person got murdered on policy by Hilary and we see how that worked out.:rolleyes:

Yeah, he got murdered on policy and lost the popular vote.

But, the now and then make sense was by far the funniest thing I've read on this thread for some time since Amerika left.


On a different note, the 'roll call' for the DNC was, overall, great. Especially Virginia, Florida and Wyoming, and a shout out to Hawaii and Alaska for cool looking delegates.

Professor Moriarty

Rjd2 wrote: »

What makes him quite formidable is when he talks about the ills about the obsession about "free markets" he actually does sometimes make sense.

His solutions are probably best not thought about but the ability to now and then talk complete sense clearly adds to his appeal and makes his racism etc easier to sell and for the left much more formidable than many run of the mill conservatives like Cruz and Rubio who may run in 2024.

He has a hugely successful tv show and numerous adoring elements of right wing media who adore him , he doesn't need to expose himself to someone who can shut him down. Trump a much dumber person got murdered on policy by Hilary and we see how that worked out.:rolleyes:

I wonder though. If the polls are correct then many moderate Republicans have seen what Trump brought to the party and didn't like it. Carlson's problem would be in trying to hold on to the white angry males who love his right wing conservative rhetoric while also trying to appeal to those who were appalled by Trump.

feargale

Tell me how wrote: »

Going back to the MAGA is an own goal though because as you pointed out it feels like his first term was a failure.

How about Make America Hate Again?

Rjd2

Igotadose wrote: »

Yeah, he got murdered on policy and lost the popular vote.

But, the now and then make sense was by far the funniest thing I've read on this thread for some time since Amerika left.


.

Was referring to Tucker not Trump tbf.

LessOutragePlz

Trump has done some pretty sh1tty things but, has he prosecuted an innocent man, with him serving 6.5 years in prison and then fighting his appeal?

Sonics2k

Eric Cartman wrote: »

:rolleyes: If I called Steven Colbert a communist I'd quite rightly be told I was over reacting, on that same vein , with regards to tucker Carlson host of political talk television, Im going to say that you are massively over reacting.

But here's the thing. You have Trump, and his supporters, openly calling for him to serve an additional 4 years (assuming he wins this one) and make it 12 years. Openly against the US Constitution.

And then you have others calling for Ivanka to serve two terms, and so on. You can't deny there is a cult-ish attitude around Trump from a large chunk of his supporters.

The horrible irony of course if they are actively looking for and promoting a Trump dynasty to run their country, after years of propaganda and lies that the Democrats are the big bad evil and out to get them. I've got to say, American propaganda over the last 60 years has been incredible and how they've managed to convince their own people it's all true.

Rjd2

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

I wonder though. If the polls are correct then many moderate Republicans have seen what Trump brought to the party and didn't like it. Carlson's problem would be in trying to hold on to the white angry males who love his right wing conservative rhetoric while also trying to appeal to those who were appalled by Trump.

Good point.

You'd like to think a resounding victory for Biden would probably make Trumpism a little less appealing to the GOP masses.

Maybe in that scenario a vulture like Hailey, Crenshaw who are relatively old school may do well with standard Reagan zombiism and culture war ****e will have a chance.

Still though overcoming Trumpism when you look at Tucker and Trump is going to be very difficult for guys like Larry Hogan etc.

alchemist33

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

Trump has done some pretty sh1tty things but, has he prosecuted an innocent man, with him serving 6.5 years in prison and then fighting his appeal?

He tried to have 5 innocent men executed. And prosecuting isn't even his job!

Kidchameleon

alchemist33 wrote: »

He tried to have 5 innocent men executed. And prosecuting isn't even his job!

They confessed to restraining the victim whilst she was being raped. They should still be in jail IMHO

joseywhales

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

Trump has done some pretty sh1tty things but, has he prosecuted an innocent man, with him serving 6.5 years in prison and then fighting his appeal?

Yes I agree she is a fantastic attorney

You understand the job right?

Chris_Heilong

Tucker completely destroys the lefts unhinged conspiracy about Trump stealing the mailboxes, they should stop getting their news from twitter.

Timberrrrrrrr

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

Tucker completely destroys the lefts unhinged conspiracy about Trump stealing the mailboxes, they should stop getting their news from twitter.

Tucker couldn't destroy a decent breakfast.

Sonics2k

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

Tucker completely destroys the lefts unhinged conspiracy about Trump stealing the mailboxes, they should stop getting their news from twitter.

Ah yes Tucker, a man who famously pushes and encourages a range of madness and conspiracies while propping up Trump with lies. Definitely a man to be trusted.

Quin_Dub

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

Tucker completely destroys the lefts unhinged conspiracy about Trump stealing the mailboxes, they should stop getting their news from twitter.

That's a "destruction of a conspiracy theory" is it??

Aside from the pathetic Pantomime delivery (how do people watch this absolute tool??) at no point does he say "They aren't taking the mailboxes" - He just claims that it won't impact the election and suggests that it's just "normal" - No evidence to support that.

He also repeats the utterly disproved the "mail-in voting in more subject to fraud" lie.

Now THAT's a conspiracy theory.

biko

https://www.wweek.com/news/2020/08/13/united-states-postal-service-confirmed-it-has-removed-mailboxes-in-portland-and-eugene/

A spokesman for the United States Postal Service confirmed that the agency has removed four blue boxes from Portland, and 27 from Eugene this week. The USPS plans to remove a few more boxes from Portland next week.
"The reason we're doing it is because of declining mail volume," USPS spokesman Ernie Swanson told WW. "Ever since the pandemic came along, people are mailing less for some reason."

Manic Moran

ChikiChiki wrote: »

So the Republic Convention is getting the people who pointed guns (rightly or wrongly) at BLM protestors and the kid who had words with a Native American to speak.

I believe the kid had no words at all with the Native American. He's apparently now a hell of a lot richer after settling various defamation suits with a couple of news organisations.

Also - It's not actually a private road. It's a public street that residents have put a gate on.

They have absolutely ZERO legal basis to deny people access to the street - Their property , yes but not the street and at no point did anyone step on their property.

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Did you read the article I linked to?

Under the law, it is not a private Street. The residents would like it to be and by having the gate etc. they try to make it seem that way.

But it is in fact a public Street that any one is allowed to walk down.

Your repeated statements that it is a public road do not make it so. Pretty much every news article on the incident acknowledges that it is a private street. I don't see it as being any different to a communal driveway. Fortunately, MO law actually defines "Private road". https://law.justia.com/codes/missouri/2013/title-xiv/chapter-228/section-228.341
The City of St Louis says it's a private street.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/29/us/st-louis-couple-protest-firearms-trnd/index.html
The St Louis Streets Department confirmed to CNN that Portland Place is a private street

What you want to argue is whether or not folks have a right of passage regardless of if it is a private street or not. That is more debatable. For example, is there a right to passage if the private street is the only access to a public place? (eg beaches and the like). Courts are still wrangling that one. However, there is no such argument here.

I can't help but notice that there actually isn't anything in the link you provide which is substantively supporting your statement. There is a line from a lawyer that the castle doctrine doesn't apply on the street, but that's fine, since they aren't relying on it. (A reliance on Castle Doctrine requires a charge which invokes it, e.g. homicide). There's a line from a Councillor (also a laywer, if you follow the links) who obviously thinks that the folks should be allowed walk up it, but if you go to the link provided in the link you provided, his objection is to the level of the reaction, more than the law. "Beyond the pale", he says.

Further, there is ample precedent on the concept of private exclusion as applied to community property: Gated communities are a perfect case in point. Still, we need not look to analogies, the lawyers have been looking at this for ages. See, for example, from the Missouri School of Law in 2007. From Page 17.
https://scholarship.law.missouri.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3750&context=mlr
While we tend to think of private streets in conjunction with gated communities, there are numerous instances of private streets dispersed throughout a municipality. For example, since the mid-19th century St. Louis has had an extensive system of private streets. Another instance of private streets is the crime-combating technique of conveyance of public streets and sidewalks by a city to a public housing project in order to allow exclusion of non-residents. The courts have upheld these private "no trespassing" zones.

Whether the gate was forced or not is irrelevant to trespass, otherwise you could argue that you have no grounds against a burglar who happened to notice you had left your front door open.

Overheal wrote: »

CONPLAN 3501-08 already exists to allow the Military to augment the postal service during a crisis, it is only inaction from POTUS and SecDef for why it is not activated. This would certainly clear out any postal backlog and ensure the speedy delivery of lawful ballots.

https://publicintelligence.net/usnorthcom-dsca/

As mentioned, the contingency plan is predicated on the basis of stoppage of the mail, a not slowdown (It says so in the plan). And Congress would need to ensure that USPS had sufficient funds to cover the cost.

feargale

feargale wrote: »

[notobtuse]When do you think Biden will be allowed out of his basement bunker and finally answer some tough questions?

This was from notobtuse in the predecessor thread. Talking of bunkers, isn't that where Donald spent much of his time during the pandemic? In a golf bunker that is.

Nero fiddled while Rome burned. Trump played golf as Covid ravaged America.

Let's hear it for Golf Bunker Donald.

P.S. Let's see which one sticks best.

joseywhales

It looks to be taking off alright, congratulations

drunkmonkey

He's stirring up Obamagate again...

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1296219101623459841?s=20

dwayneshintzy

Kidchameleon wrote: »

They confessed to restraining the victim whilst she was being raped. They should still be in jail IMHO

The Central Park 5? You're contending that their confessions are still safe? They were kids put under immense pressure to confess; their convictions have been vacated and they've received a settlement from New York.

On what basis are you saying they should still be in prison? Should Gerry Conlon have died in prison?

Kidchameleon

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

The Central Park 5? You're contending that their confessions are still safe? They were kids put under immense pressure to confess; their convictions have been vacated and they've received a settlement from New York.

On what basis are you saying they should still be in prison? Should Gerry Conlon have died in prison?

Firstly, this is pure opinion on my part but... they were in the park that weekend, up to no good (by their own admission). There was a wave of crime in the park over those few days (rapes, robbery's etc). Their parents were present when they confessed (so they were not being forced to confess). The victim stated that there were multiple people involved in her attack. I believe they played the race card to get off and the world being what it is, let them off. Nothing has changed, look at George Floyd for example - a complete waster being deified because of his race - its the same kind of situation.

extra gravy

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

On what basis are you saying they should still be in prison?

His opinion. Facts and evidence don't matter. Typical Trump supporter.

dwayneshintzy

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Firstly, this is pure opinion on my part but... they were in the park that weekend, up to no good (by their own admission). There was a wave of crime in the park over those few days (rapes, robbery's etc). Their parents were present when they confessed (so they were not being forced to confess). The victim stated that there were multiple people involved in her attack. I believe they played the race card to get off and the world being what it is, let them off. Nothing has changed, look at George Floyd for example - a complete waster being deified because of his race - its the same kind of situation.

Pure drivel unsupported by any facts or objective facts; just your "opinion", as you say.


Interesting that you bring up them using the "race card" to get off, but seemingly dismissing the idea that it was only because of their race they got arrested and pressured into confessing in the first place.

Cody montana

“Donald Trump says QAnon followers 'like me very much and I appreciate it' and that they 'love our country' despite his own FBI labeling conspiracy theory a domestic terror threat.”

He’s desperate for votes, now pandering to the conspiracy crowd.....oh wait......again.

biko

Is there anyone who thinks Joe Biden will make a good president?
After all he was vice president for eight years.

ancapailldorcha

biko wrote: »

Is there anyone who thinks Joe Biden will make a good president?
After all he was vice president for eight years.

Define good. Relative to the current IMPOTUS, abso-friggin-lutely.

sydthebeat

biko wrote: »

Is there anyone who thinks Joe Biden will make a good president?
After all he was vice president for eight years.

A good president...... Maybe

Better than the Donald???
Absolutely.