2020 the battle of the septuagenarians - Trump vs Biden, Part 2

Tell me how

ChikiChiki wrote: »

I'm surprised he is still using the MAGA slogan. To me it infers that he has not done such a great job in his first term as promised in his previous campaign. It's a tired lazy slogan.

They had selected a new one which, if you were a Trump supporter, made since up until March.

The Trump campaign could ditch its 'Keep America Great' slogan, report says, as the US is ravaged by COVID-19, job losses, and anti-racism protests

Going back to the MAGA is an own goal though because as you pointed out it feels like his first term was a failure.

Professor Moriarty

Rjd2 wrote: »

Tucker or maybe someone like Hawley. You could see someone emerge from congress who may run on a similar Trump type vibe, not sure who yet though?

Thankfully Tom Cotton is to dull to win anything because he is the worst of all worlds, he was at one time both liked by Anne Coulter and Bill Kristol.

Imagine how bad you have to be to get both on your side.

Dunno about Hawley. Seems a bit too milk and water. Carlson could be the new Trump. Infinitely smarter too. Incidentally, there's an article about Carlson's possible candidature here.

Carfacemandog

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Who do you think might be that competent fascist?

Tucker Carlson is a decent bet, he has become the leading voice of more or less open fascism in America, henknows how to make people angry (both in support and opposition of him), and to many remaining Republicans it is fair at this stage to say that those two features are seen as huge positives, while the remainders are ire than happy to ignore it and vote for anything with the letter R beside it (include student sexual abuse enablers like Gym Jordan).

He also knows how to not scream the quiet part out loud, like Trump oso often does.

Eric Cartman

Carfacemandog wrote: »

Tucker Carlson is a decent bet, he has become the leading voice of more or less open fascism in America, henknows how to make people angry (both in support and opposition of him), and to many remaining Republicans it is fair at this stage to say that those two features are seen as huge positives, while the remainders are ire than happy to ignore it and vote for anything with the letter R beside it (include student sexual abuse enablers like Gym Jordan).

He also knows how to not scream the quiet part out loud, like Trump oso often does.

:rolleyes: If I called Steven Colbert a communist I'd quite rightly be told I was over reacting, on that same vein , with regards to tucker Carlson host of political talk television, Im going to say that you are massively over reacting.

Leroy42

Tell me how wrote: »

They had selected a new one which, if you were a Trump supporter, made since up until March.



Going back to the MAGA is an own goal though because as you pointed out it feels like his first term was a failure.

Only if one thinks it ever meant anything. What was wrong with America and how would it fixed?
When was America great and why?

Since nobody even asked, never mind answered, any of those type of questions, then saying it again isn't really a problem since people like because of a feeling, not facts.

Professor Moriarty

Carfacemandog wrote: »

Tucker Carlson is a decent bet, he has become the leading voice of more or less open fascism in America, henknows how to make people angry (both in support and opposition of him), and to many remaining Republicans it is fair at this stage to say that those two features are seen as huge positives, while the remainders are ire than happy to ignore it and vote for anything with the letter R beside it (include student sexual abuse enablers like Gym Jordan).

He also knows how to not scream the quiet part out loud, like Trump oso often does.

The article I linked to above puts the GOP's dilemma very well:

"The sudden enthusiasm about Carlson as a candidate may betray a certain awareness on the right of lean political days ahead. Some Republicans have warned that with Trump, the party has careened down a dead-end street, with a base too small and a message too extreme.

But now, with the prospect of Carlson as standard-bearer, the party appears to be flirting with a giddy alternative strategy: grip the wheel and hit the gas."

Rjd2

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Dunno about Hawley. Seems a bit too milk and water. Carlson could be the new Trump. Infinitely smarter too. Incidentally, there's an article about Carlson's possible candidature here.

Carlson is incredibly dangerous.

His "gift" is the ability to convey some pretty drastic opinions in a reasonable style type delivery tone. Its a skill and why he is so popular. I am "hopeful" though that he may not bother. Tucker has absolute **** you money when you look at his deals and family background.

Who knows with Hawley, possibly to early and may come across as to elite for the GOP base. But then not as if Trump or Tucker are self made.

I see Rubio has tried to walk that line of economic populism recently, but he is an empty politician, basically the right wing version of Mayor Pete but much more dull.

Thankfully unlike his father Donald JR and Ivanka have absolute zero charisma so if either do run they will fail and yes you can hold me to that.!

ohnonotgmail

namloc1980 wrote: »

This is absolutely delicious. Jim Jordan, Republican House Representative from Ohio, wrote a piece today claiming that if Joe Biden gets elected President, 'cancel culture' will get worse. On the same day President Trump is urging people to boycott and essentially 'cancel' Goodyear - an American company based in OHIO!!!

That's just comical. :pac:

.

he is the guy who knew that wrestlers he coached were being sexually abused and did nothing about it. probably best to ignore him.

Rjd2

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

The article I linked to above puts the GOP's dilemma very well:

"The sudden enthusiasm about Carlson as a candidate may betray a certain awareness on the right of lean political days ahead. Some Republicans have warned that with Trump, the party has careened down a dead-end street, with a base too small and a message too extreme.

But now, with the prospect of Carlson as standard-bearer, the party appears to be flirting with a giddy alternative strategy: grip the wheel and hit the gas."

Yes and no.

Demographics are not good for the GOP but tbf Trump was doing ok with Hispanics and not as bad as Romney with black males as Romney did.

I think the other major issue is those who fund the GOP are devoted to free markets etc, while someone like Tucker would likely run as a big government type Republican.

Meh , we probably get Laura Loomer v Michael Bloomberg in 2024.

joseywhales

You can see through Carlson in about 10 seconds. Conjecture, straw man, argue by extremes, more hypotheticals, don't make points just ask questions without the opportunity for anyone to respond and of course never ever provide evidence, apart from selective snippets with no context. This is American TV news.

He rarely gives the opportunity to those he attacks to argue with him. Anyone could seem convincing in such a doctored environment with no opposition. He is basically pointless as a human being.

Professor Moriarty

Rjd2 wrote: »

Yes and no.

Demographics are not good for the GOP but tbf Trump was doing ok with Hispanics and not as bad as Romney with black males as Romney did.

I think the other major issue is those who fund the GOP are devoted to free markets etc, while someone like Tucker would likely run as a big government type Republican.

Meh , we probably get Laura Loomer v Michael Bloomberg in 2024.

Nah, I think Bernie will finally get his chance. He'll only be 82.

Professor Moriarty

joseywhales wrote: »

You can see through Carlson in about 10 seconds. Conjecture, straw man, argue by extremes, more hypotheticals, don't make points just ask questions without the opportunity for anyone to respond and of course never ever provide evidence, apart from selective snippets with no context. This is American TV news.

He rarely gives the opportunity to those he attacks to argue with him. Anyone could seem convincing in such a doctored environment with no opposition. He is basically pointless as a human being.

"just ask questions" aside, you could be describing Trump.

Rjd2

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

"just ask questions" aside, you could be describing Trump.

What makes him quite formidable is when he talks about the ills about the obsession about "free markets" he actually does sometimes make sense.

His solutions are probably best not thought about but the ability to now and then talk complete sense clearly adds to his appeal and makes his racism etc easier to sell and for the left much more formidable than many run of the mill conservatives like Cruz and Rubio who may run in 2024.

He has a hugely successful tv show and numerous adoring elements of right wing media who adore him , he doesn't need to expose himself to someone who can shut him down. Trump a much dumber person got murdered on policy by Hilary and we see how that worked out.:rolleyes:

Igotadose

Rjd2 wrote: »

What makes him quite formidable is when he talks about the ills about the obsession about "free markets" he actually does sometimes make sense.

His solutions are probably best not thought about but the ability to now and then talk complete sense clearly adds to his appeal and makes his racism etc easier to sell and for the left much more formidable than many run of the mill conservatives like Cruz and Rubio who may run in 2024.

He has a hugely successful tv show and numerous adoring elements of right wing media who adore him , he doesn't need to expose himself to someone who can shut him down. Trump a much dumber person got murdered on policy by Hilary and we see how that worked out.:rolleyes:

Yeah, he got murdered on policy and lost the popular vote.

But, the now and then make sense was by far the funniest thing I've read on this thread for some time since Amerika left.


On a different note, the 'roll call' for the DNC was, overall, great. Especially Virginia, Florida and Wyoming, and a shout out to Hawaii and Alaska for cool looking delegates.

Professor Moriarty

Rjd2 wrote: »

What makes him quite formidable is when he talks about the ills about the obsession about "free markets" he actually does sometimes make sense.

His solutions are probably best not thought about but the ability to now and then talk complete sense clearly adds to his appeal and makes his racism etc easier to sell and for the left much more formidable than many run of the mill conservatives like Cruz and Rubio who may run in 2024.

He has a hugely successful tv show and numerous adoring elements of right wing media who adore him , he doesn't need to expose himself to someone who can shut him down. Trump a much dumber person got murdered on policy by Hilary and we see how that worked out.:rolleyes:

I wonder though. If the polls are correct then many moderate Republicans have seen what Trump brought to the party and didn't like it. Carlson's problem would be in trying to hold on to the white angry males who love his right wing conservative rhetoric while also trying to appeal to those who were appalled by Trump.

feargale

Tell me how wrote: »

Going back to the MAGA is an own goal though because as you pointed out it feels like his first term was a failure.

How about Make America Hate Again?

Rjd2

Igotadose wrote: »

Yeah, he got murdered on policy and lost the popular vote.

But, the now and then make sense was by far the funniest thing I've read on this thread for some time since Amerika left.


.

Was referring to Tucker not Trump tbf.

LessOutragePlz

Trump has done some pretty sh1tty things but, has he prosecuted an innocent man, with him serving 6.5 years in prison and then fighting his appeal?

Sonics2k

Eric Cartman wrote: »

:rolleyes: If I called Steven Colbert a communist I'd quite rightly be told I was over reacting, on that same vein , with regards to tucker Carlson host of political talk television, Im going to say that you are massively over reacting.

But here's the thing. You have Trump, and his supporters, openly calling for him to serve an additional 4 years (assuming he wins this one) and make it 12 years. Openly against the US Constitution.

And then you have others calling for Ivanka to serve two terms, and so on. You can't deny there is a cult-ish attitude around Trump from a large chunk of his supporters.

The horrible irony of course if they are actively looking for and promoting a Trump dynasty to run their country, after years of propaganda and lies that the Democrats are the big bad evil and out to get them. I've got to say, American propaganda over the last 60 years has been incredible and how they've managed to convince their own people it's all true.

Rjd2

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

I wonder though. If the polls are correct then many moderate Republicans have seen what Trump brought to the party and didn't like it. Carlson's problem would be in trying to hold on to the white angry males who love his right wing conservative rhetoric while also trying to appeal to those who were appalled by Trump.

Good point.

You'd like to think a resounding victory for Biden would probably make Trumpism a little less appealing to the GOP masses.

Maybe in that scenario a vulture like Hailey, Crenshaw who are relatively old school may do well with standard Reagan zombiism and culture war ****e will have a chance.

Still though overcoming Trumpism when you look at Tucker and Trump is going to be very difficult for guys like Larry Hogan etc.

alchemist33

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

Trump has done some pretty sh1tty things but, has he prosecuted an innocent man, with him serving 6.5 years in prison and then fighting his appeal?

He tried to have 5 innocent men executed. And prosecuting isn't even his job!

Kidchameleon

alchemist33 wrote: »

He tried to have 5 innocent men executed. And prosecuting isn't even his job!

They confessed to restraining the victim whilst she was being raped. They should still be in jail IMHO

joseywhales

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

Trump has done some pretty sh1tty things but, has he prosecuted an innocent man, with him serving 6.5 years in prison and then fighting his appeal?

Yes I agree she is a fantastic attorney

You understand the job right?

Chris_Heilong

Tucker completely destroys the lefts unhinged conspiracy about Trump stealing the mailboxes, they should stop getting their news from twitter.

Timberrrrrrrr

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

Tucker completely destroys the lefts unhinged conspiracy about Trump stealing the mailboxes, they should stop getting their news from twitter.

Tucker couldn't destroy a decent breakfast.

Sonics2k

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

Tucker completely destroys the lefts unhinged conspiracy about Trump stealing the mailboxes, they should stop getting their news from twitter.

Ah yes Tucker, a man who famously pushes and encourages a range of madness and conspiracies while propping up Trump with lies. Definitely a man to be trusted.

Quin_Dub

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

Tucker completely destroys the lefts unhinged conspiracy about Trump stealing the mailboxes, they should stop getting their news from twitter.

That's a "destruction of a conspiracy theory" is it??

Aside from the pathetic Pantomime delivery (how do people watch this absolute tool??) at no point does he say "They aren't taking the mailboxes" - He just claims that it won't impact the election and suggests that it's just "normal" - No evidence to support that.

He also repeats the utterly disproved the "mail-in voting in more subject to fraud" lie.

Now THAT's a conspiracy theory.

biko

https://www.wweek.com/news/2020/08/13/united-states-postal-service-confirmed-it-has-removed-mailboxes-in-portland-and-eugene/

A spokesman for the United States Postal Service confirmed that the agency has removed four blue boxes from Portland, and 27 from Eugene this week. The USPS plans to remove a few more boxes from Portland next week.
"The reason we're doing it is because of declining mail volume," USPS spokesman Ernie Swanson told WW. "Ever since the pandemic came along, people are mailing less for some reason."

Manic Moran

ChikiChiki wrote: »

So the Republic Convention is getting the people who pointed guns (rightly or wrongly) at BLM protestors and the kid who had words with a Native American to speak.

I believe the kid had no words at all with the Native American. He's apparently now a hell of a lot richer after settling various defamation suits with a couple of news organisations.

Also - It's not actually a private road. It's a public street that residents have put a gate on.

They have absolutely ZERO legal basis to deny people access to the street - Their property , yes but not the street and at no point did anyone step on their property.

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Did you read the article I linked to?

Under the law, it is not a private Street. The residents would like it to be and by having the gate etc. they try to make it seem that way.

But it is in fact a public Street that any one is allowed to walk down.

Your repeated statements that it is a public road do not make it so. Pretty much every news article on the incident acknowledges that it is a private street. I don't see it as being any different to a communal driveway. Fortunately, MO law actually defines "Private road". https://law.justia.com/codes/missouri/2013/title-xiv/chapter-228/section-228.341
The City of St Louis says it's a private street.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/29/us/st-louis-couple-protest-firearms-trnd/index.html
The St Louis Streets Department confirmed to CNN that Portland Place is a private street

What you want to argue is whether or not folks have a right of passage regardless of if it is a private street or not. That is more debatable. For example, is there a right to passage if the private street is the only access to a public place? (eg beaches and the like). Courts are still wrangling that one. However, there is no such argument here.

I can't help but notice that there actually isn't anything in the link you provide which is substantively supporting your statement. There is a line from a lawyer that the castle doctrine doesn't apply on the street, but that's fine, since they aren't relying on it. (A reliance on Castle Doctrine requires a charge which invokes it, e.g. homicide). There's a line from a Councillor (also a laywer, if you follow the links) who obviously thinks that the folks should be allowed walk up it, but if you go to the link provided in the link you provided, his objection is to the level of the reaction, more than the law. "Beyond the pale", he says.

Further, there is ample precedent on the concept of private exclusion as applied to community property: Gated communities are a perfect case in point. Still, we need not look to analogies, the lawyers have been looking at this for ages. See, for example, from the Missouri School of Law in 2007. From Page 17.
https://scholarship.law.missouri.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3750&context=mlr
While we tend to think of private streets in conjunction with gated communities, there are numerous instances of private streets dispersed throughout a municipality. For example, since the mid-19th century St. Louis has had an extensive system of private streets. Another instance of private streets is the crime-combating technique of conveyance of public streets and sidewalks by a city to a public housing project in order to allow exclusion of non-residents. The courts have upheld these private "no trespassing" zones.

Whether the gate was forced or not is irrelevant to trespass, otherwise you could argue that you have no grounds against a burglar who happened to notice you had left your front door open.

Overheal wrote: »

CONPLAN 3501-08 already exists to allow the Military to augment the postal service during a crisis, it is only inaction from POTUS and SecDef for why it is not activated. This would certainly clear out any postal backlog and ensure the speedy delivery of lawful ballots.

https://publicintelligence.net/usnorthcom-dsca/

As mentioned, the contingency plan is predicated on the basis of stoppage of the mail, a not slowdown (It says so in the plan). And Congress would need to ensure that USPS had sufficient funds to cover the cost.

feargale

feargale wrote: »

[notobtuse]When do you think Biden will be allowed out of his basement bunker and finally answer some tough questions?

This was from notobtuse in the predecessor thread. Talking of bunkers, isn't that where Donald spent much of his time during the pandemic? In a golf bunker that is.

Nero fiddled while Rome burned. Trump played golf as Covid ravaged America.

Let's hear it for Golf Bunker Donald.

P.S. Let's see which one sticks best.