2020 the battle of the septuagenarians - Trump vs Biden, Part 2

Timberrrrrrrr

timsey tiger wrote: »

The talking points, must be a bit late today.

They are waiting to see how Fox and Brietbart spin it so they can mirror that.

Leroy42

It is crazy that the US have got to the point where the opposition party are asking people to vote early to try to avoid the POTUS looking to stop them voting.

This is, apparently, the home of democracy, the country that wants to spread democracy to the rest of the world. And essentially the leader of the country is actively looking for ways to stop people voting!

I mean, that is incredible that it has got to that point. Whilst I was one of those that was not happy with Trump winning, I could see where it came from but was worried about the effects.

But I never really imagined that the US would now be looking at a situation whereby the POTUS is actively looking to discredit the entire democratic system.

Timberrrrrrrr

Leroy42 wrote: »

It is crazy that the US have got to the point where the opposition party are asking people to vote early to try to avoid the POTUS looking to stop them voting.

This is, apparently, the home of democracy, the country that wants to spread democracy to the rest of the world. And essentially the leader of the country is actively looking for ways to stop people voting!

I mean, that is incredible that it has got to that point. Whilst I was one of those that was not happy with Trump winning, I could see where it came from but was worried about the effects.

But I never really imagined that the US would now be looking at a situation whereby the POTUS is actively looking to discredit the entire democratic system.

No matter the result in November the ramifications of Trumps presidency and his attack on the democratic voting rights for US citizens will be felt for years, maybe even decades.

Wanderer78

Leroy42 wrote: »

It is crazy that the US have got to the point where the opposition party are asking people to vote early to try to avoid the POTUS looking to stop them voting.

This is, apparently, the home of democracy, the country that wants to spread democracy to the rest of the world. And essentially the leader of the country is actively looking for ways to stop people voting!

I mean, that is incredible that it has got to that point. Whilst I was one of those that was not happy with Trump winning, I could see where it came from but was worried about the effects.

But I never really imagined that the US would now be looking at a situation whereby the POTUS is actively looking to discredit the entire democratic system.

errr emm, hasnt been for a very long time, if ever!

again, this has been going on for decades now

Leroy42

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

No matter the result in November the ramifications of Trumps presidency and his attack on the democratic voting rights for US citizens will be felt for years, maybe even decades.

And the most worrying aspect of it is that it seems that a huge amount, the majority I would say, don't even realise what is happening.

For all their gun carrying, we stand for freedom and democracy, this is the US, greatest country in the world etc they seemingly are happy enough to stand by and watch their judicial system be systemically politicised, their voting system politicised and their media become more and more polarised.

For all the money they spend on their military, they real threats are themselves.

Wanderer78

Leroy42 wrote: »

And the most worrying aspect of it is that it seems that a huge amount, the majority I would say, don't even realise what is happening.

For all their gun carrying, we stand for freedom and democracy, this is the US, greatest country in the world etc they seemingly are happy enough to stand by and watch their judicial system be systemically politicised, their voting system politicised and their media become more and more polarised.

For all the money they spend on their military, they real threats are themselves.

we can never rule out civil war here!

LuckyLloyd

Seems like an excellent convention all round for Biden.

duploelabs

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

No matter the result in November the ramifications of Trumps presidency and his attack on the democratic voting rights for US citizens will be felt for years, maybe even decades.

It's not just the voting rights, I think a lot of the Biden presidency will be closing all the loopholes that Trump exploited to make sure they are not abused again

Leroy42

duploelabs wrote: »

It's not just the voting rights, I think a lot of the Biden presidency will be closing all the loopholes that Trump exploited to make sure they are not abused again

I wouldn't be too sure about that. There has been plenty of time in the past for DNC to deal with issues like Gerrymandering, corporate donations etc etc but they consistently fail to do anything.

A lot will depend on the results of the Senate and House elections and the impact on who is in majority. If the GoP maintain control of the Senate then Biden will be forced into EO to get anything done and that solves nothing really.

That the parties couldn't come together to deal with such a threat as COVID does not bode well for any cross party work in the future.

Biden can't be seen to change too much, as he will quickly be labelled as ignoring those that didn't vote for him. That that is exactly what Trump did isn't the point.

PropJoe10

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Trump should adopt that as a campaign slogan. "I'm not having a breakdown, I'm just a dumb fool"

He could, and he'd still barely lose a vote from the uneducated masses that call themselves his "base".

ohnonotgmail

Leroy42 wrote: »

I wouldn't be too sure about that. There has been plenty of time in the past for DNC to deal with issues like Gerrymandering, corporate donations etc etc but they consistently fail to do anything.

A lot will depend on the results of the Senate and House elections and the impact on who is in majority. If the GoP maintain control of the Senate then Biden will be forced into EO to get anything done and that solves nothing really.

That the parties couldn't come together to deal with such a threat as COVID does not bode well for any cross party work in the future.

Biden can't be seen to change too much, as he will quickly be labelled as ignoring those that didn't vote for him. That that is exactly what Trump did isn't the point.

i dont think anybody ever imagined that a president would ever be so blatantly criminal.

hotmail.com

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

i dont think anybody ever imagined that a president would ever be so blatantly criminal.

Eh George Bush... Iraq? People have short memories.

Leroy42

But the real fault lies with the GoP. The senate is supposed to be there to help protect America from a criminal POTUS, one of the three equal strands of the executive. But with control of the Seante, McConnell and the rest of the GoP have completely abdicated their responsibilities in favour of party political ends.

Having such sweeping powers invested in one person is always dangerous, unless there are safeguards in place. Up until 2016, these safeguards appeared to be sufficient, but it turns out it was only because they had never been properly put to the test.

They have been over the last 4 years and have been found wanting.

But there are a number or fairly easy solutions to start the process of regaining accountability and control.

SCOTUS, these should be term limits, and all people up forward should be decided upon by a cross party committee involving the current SCOTUS judges. These committees should have a constant short list or candidates which are only discussed by the Senate when a opening arises and must be one of the shortlisted candidates.
Cabinet should be sitting members of either the House or Senate.
They need to place a limit of political spending and tighen up the rules regarding political donations.
End EO, at at least limit them to particular time frames. They should all automatically end at the end of each term.
Remove the power of pardon. Should have nothing to do with POTUS. POTUS is perfectly entitled to ask for judicial review etc but leave justice to the courts

Leroy42

hotmail.com wrote: »

Eh George Bush... Iraq? People have short memories.

God yeah, another Republican. You would have thought people would have learnt their lessons by now.

But the poster was talking abut criminality against the US itself, international criminality, well all POTUS are indicted in that.

duploelabs

hotmail.com wrote: »

Eh George Bush... Iraq? People have short memories.

I would be to readdress that the president is a servant of the people, not a king (as trump likes to think he is).

Quin_Dub

Just a reminder of what motivates Trump.

At a time when legislation needs to be passed to help people in dire need because of Covid-19 - Trump has his lawyers heading for the Supreme court because people are being mean to him on Twitter!!!!


Trump asks the Supreme Court to allow him to block critics on his personal Twitter account

President Donald Trump is asking the Supreme Court to allow him to block critics from his personal Twitter account. The administration said in a high-court filing Thursday that Trump's @realdonaldtrump account, with more than 85 million followers, is his personal property, and argued that blocking people from it is akin to elected officials who refuse to allow their opponents' yard signs on their front lawns.

"President Trump's ability to use the features of his personal Twitter account, including the blocking function, are independent of his presidential office," acting Solicitor General Jeffrey Wall wrote, urging the justices to review the case.

The federal appeals court in New York ruled last year that Mr. Trump uses the account to make daily pronouncements and observations that are overwhelmingly official in nature. It held that Mr. Trump violated the First Amendment whenever he blocked a critic to silence a viewpoint.

A decision about whether even to hear the case is not likely before the November election.

Overheal

Certainly sounds like the stoppage that would fit CONPLAN 3501-08, NTM.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-08-20/usps-cutbacks-post-office-chaos

Rotting food, dead animals, infestation, etc.

Send in the military already to support the postal service.

Manic Moran

Leroy42 wrote: »

It is crazy that the US have got to the point where the opposition party are asking people to vote early to try to avoid the POTUS looking to stop them voting.

If I were cynical, (which I am), I would say that the reason they are asking people to vote early is that Biden is currently in a leading position, and they want to avoid a repeat of 2016 when something at the last minute caused Hillary’s lead to slip. The earlier the vote is put in the mailbox, the sooner it is in the bag. If they were behind at this point, they would not be making such a call. Being able to sound alarmist about the cause is even more icing on the cake.

I wouldn't be too sure about that. There has been plenty of time in the past for DNC to deal with issues like Gerrymandering, corporate donations etc etc but they consistently fail to do anything

That’s because they do it themselves when they can. That Supreme Court case two years ago is associated with Wisconsin as the primary, which the Republicans gerrymandered, but people forget that another case, from Maine, was merged with it, which the Democrats gerrymandered. When California voters moved to take districting power away from Democrat controlled Sacramento in voter-initiated referendums (about half the states have a clause that says a referendum can be placed to the voters if enough signatures are found, regardless of what the politicians want) and create an independent districting commission in Props 11 and 20, the list of opponents included the California Democrat Party and a certain Nancy Pelosi.

Both sides are doing whatever they can to win. As you would expect, frankly.

Overheal

This was one of several key moments in last nights convention that blew a gaping hole in the Trump campaign's relentless personal attacks against Joe Biden, this one in particular raising public awareness about stammering:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Id12d8clg_o

also: the Postmaster General hearing is already live,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sGRkgq6YJc

I have to say, DeJoy sounds like yet another mobster.

rossie1977

hotmail.com wrote: »

Eh George Bush... Iraq? People have short memories.

Majority of the American public were firmly behind Bush's decision to go into Iraq, his approval rating skyrocketed at the time.

Yes campaign was disaster but let's not re-write history.

Trump can't even get agreement among his own party that he has to push through legislation in middle of the night without anybody reading it.

Muahahaha

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Seems like an excellent convention all round for Biden.

Just watched Bidens speech now and it was pretty good. He touched on all the main themes from Covid to race relations to the economy. But the overwhelming message was that he wants to unite and heal the country. It was poles apart from whatever Trump will come up with next week.

Kidchameleon

I have only seen a clip of Bidens speech. I'll watch it later. Was the speech pre-recorded?

jamule

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I have only seen a clip of Bidens speech. I'll watch it later. Was the speech pre-recorded?

It is now.

Professor Moriarty

jamule wrote: »

It is now.

Technically, it's now a recorded speech not a prerecorded speech. It's good to be a pedant.

Quin_Dub

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I have only seen a clip of Bidens speech. I'll watch it later. Was the speech pre-recorded?

No, it was live.

Professor Moriarty

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I have only seen a clip of Bidens speech. I'll watch it later. Was the speech pre-recorded?

It was live.

ohnonotgmail

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I have only seen a clip of Bidens speech. I'll watch it later. Was the speech pre-recorded?

LOL

Timberrrrrrrr

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I have only seen a clip of Bidens speech. I'll watch it later. Was the speech pre-recorded?

You know it wasn't, you just asked that to get some sort of childish dig in.

After you watch Bidens excellent speech have a look at at Trumps, the part where he goes of on a rant about sharks and seals is shall we say..... enlightening to say the least.

Leroy42

Manic Moran wrote: »

If I were cynical, (which I am), I would say that the reason they are asking people to vote early is that Biden is currently in a leading position, and they want to avoid a repeat of 2016 when something at the last minute caused Hillary’s lead to slip. The earlier the vote is put in the mailbox, the sooner it is in the bag. If they were behind at this point, they would not be making such a call. Being able to sound alarmist about the cause is even more icing on the cake.


That’s because they do it themselves when they can. That Supreme Court case two years ago is associated with Wisconsin as the primary, which the Republicans gerrymandered, but people forget that another case, from Maine, was merged with it, which the Democrats gerrymandered. When California voters moved to take districting power away from Democrat controlled Sacramento in voter-initiated referendums (about half the states have a clause that says a referendum can be placed to the voters if enough signatures are found, regardless of what the politicians want) and create an independent districting commission in Props 11 and 20, the list of opponents included the California Democrat Party and a certain Nancy Pelosi.

Both sides are doing whatever they can to win. As you would expect, frankly.

If you were being cynical? Really, Trump has openly stated that he wants to limit mail in voting and that if it isn't counted on the night he doesn't want it included.

There is no alternative.

The fact that it actually plays into Bidens hands shows how stupid a position Trump has taken is.

Quin_Dub

Muahahaha wrote: »

Just watched Bidens speech now and it was pretty good. He touched on all the main themes from Covid to race relations to the economy. But the overwhelming message was that he wants to unite and heal the country. It was poles apart from whatever Trump will come up with next week.

It was a solid speech that hit the right key points.

Critically ( and sadly as a reflection of the US today) it didn't contain any verbal gaffes or stumbles that would have fed into the Trump narrative around his mental fitness.

In reality the speech blew a huge hole in that narrative and it was notable that the only tweet that Trump sent contemporaneously about it was

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1296645682875506688

No "Slow Joe" , No "Sleepy Joe" , just Joe.

And the tweets today about Biden are all trying to make him look like the incumbent - All "Joe has done nothing for years" and "Here's something Biden did 25 years ago that isn't consistent with his policy now" stuff.

It will be interesting to see if they pivot away from the "Sleepy Joe" stuff a bit now.