Second Captains Part II

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122218552#Comment_122218552

What is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

Hotblack Desiato

are people OK with no western countries making weapons but russia/china pumping them out?

Apparently so. The hypocrisy is nauseating, the naivete laughable.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122218621#Comment_122218621

I've asserted nothing without evidence. I've repeated what the podcast said.

I don't want weapons manufacturers anywhere near football. The same way I don't want petrochemical states sponsoring football teams. As I said, I like to keep genocide and football separate. Clearly, you don't have an issue with it.

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122218651#Comment_122218651

The podcast presented no evidence that Germany pressured rheinmentall. It was a theory of Ken’s which is fine but that’s all it is: a theory.

In terms of genocide, well the actual last few recorded official instances of genocide in the world happened because the west didn’t bring force to bear on the perpetrators before it was too late.

AdamD

That Spanish lad was painful. Utter refusal to give Vini any credit was frankly bizarre

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122218751#Comment_122218751

As I said, I repeated what the podcast said.

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122218878#Comment_122218878

no one is saying you didn’t.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122218878#Comment_122218878

Yes, you repeated the BS they came out with…

dog_pig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122218878#Comment_122218878

I think it’s safe to assume most people here will have already heard what was said on the podcast.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122219064#Comment_122219064

One aspect of what I said was a repeat of that and which you decided to focus on.

The other part which is that I prefer my football separate to a weapons manufacturer is one you choose to ignore. Theres no BS there. Its simply an opinion. Weapons manufacturers have no place in football the exact same way petrochemical states who have committed mass genocide have no place in football. Of course, that's my opinion. There was nothing sanctimonious about it. Its Germany committing sportswashing and it should be called out just like Man City and the like.

As I said, I'd like to keep football and genocide separate.

Tucker.Tim

https://www.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/jun/04/jose-mourinho-fenerbahce-turkey-football

The hit pieces pretty much every tenured Guardian writer cycle through when José gets a new job have reach complete masturbatory parody at this point, you wouldn’t be surprised if Liew, Ronay and Wilson have a WhatsApp group dedicated to deciding whose turn it is to churn out the next article on the topic.

elefant

Pleased to hear David Sneyd's take on Torres; gives me comfort in skipping that section based on all of the, far far too regular, mentions of the guy by Ken demonstrating that he's a goofball or/and troll.

cheese sandwich

Hopefully Karen Duggan will be on soon to give her view on the wildly successful move by the Irish women’s team to rebel against the manager who got them to the World Cup. It’s definitely going great so far

siblers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122220295#Comment_122220295

Karen said that she wouldn't have given Eileen Gleeson the job (before she was announced). Maybe she was onto something.

What annoys me isn't really the results, it was always going to be difficult but it was the arrogance with how they were coming out that they were going to be a much more offensive, attack minded side and that Vera was holding them back.

They've not scored in their last 6 games and seem absolutely hopeless up front. People got completely carried away with the Nations League results in Group B.

Say Your Number

All three teams in their group are in the top 5 in the world rankings, from what I've seen they have played well, just had a few frustrating lapses at the back and not taken their chances.

Tucker.Tim

Eejits trying to re-litigate Vera’s reign imploding because we lost to three of the five best teams on the planet sure is a choice.

humberklog

Having Torres on the show was brilliant. I thought it was a joke in the byline of the pod as Ken often rips his articles apart. I can't remember him being on in years.

Diego is earnest. He goes all in and I think he believes what he writes. It's not for clicks. He is mad. Or at least.…very odd.

Sneyde's voice messages nicely balanced out what a lot of people were thinking.

I've had a hoot this week on the Podcast. Less so on this thread on Boards.

I'm with Parkinson

Say Your Number

Give it Sheasy till the end of the season

Tucker.Tim

Speaking of bad takes about Ireland managers, how about that Johnno lad now? Better result than any Kenny got after three years absolute inanity.

siblers

Ken will be over the moon.

kksaints

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122220693#Comment_122220693

Did we not hammer Scotland 3-0 in the Nations League under Kenny?

Musicrules

It's amazing the different reaction O Shea is getting compared with Kenny. The game was awful tonight but no worse than a huge number of games under Kenny. Yet, very few are giving O Shea any credit but if we had beaten Hungary under the previous manager, some would be calling for him to get a new contract. 🤣

Musicrules

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122220711#Comment_122220711

Hungary have been unbeaten in 14 games since 2022. They are ranked 26th in the World while Scotland were around 40th. It was the 12th game before Kenny got his first win against Andorra. O Shea has his first win after 3 while playing Belgium, Switzerland and Hungary.

I don't want O Shea to get the job but it's crazy that some who were cheering worse performances for 3 years have now decided that we deserve better.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122220528#Comment_122220528

Vera who qualified us for a WC and drew with the team we lost to 4-0 over two matches?

incredibly people have rewritten history she was a bad manager. She was as good as Jack and Mick. One of only 3 managers to qualify us for a WC.

deisedude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122220961#Comment_122220961

You go on about rewriting history but then don't mention the allegations against her that caused the rift with the squad and got her the sack in the first place. Nobody is saying she was a bad manager

siblers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122220979#Comment_122220979

Loads of people were using her style of play as one of the reasons to get rid of her though. It wasn't just the allegations she got criticism for

sheroman01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122220693#Comment_122220693

Starting Duffy ahead of O’Brien, again, should immediately rule him out of becoming Ireland manager. His first two games in charge were dire too.

Raoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122221239#Comment_122221239

I really wanted O'Shea to do well and before last night I would have been totally happy for him to get the job. The Duffy decision has put me right off him. I don't see how you can start a guy who has just been charged with drink driving over the young lad that last weekend marked Mbappe and scored a goal in the same game.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122220979#Comment_122220979

Loads of people are saying she was a bad manager.

Players very much getting what they deserve now.

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122221344#Comment_122221344

Coleman put mbappe in his pocket last year and people are mad to dispense with him then and now

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122222160#Comment_122222160

Coleman will be 37 by the time the next Euros comes around. Time for him to move on and his replacement incorporated into the team.

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122222171#Comment_122222171

We aren’t in the cycle for the next euros in 2028. We’re in the cycle for the nations league in September 2024.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122222192#Comment_122222192

Thats a typo and should be WC, he'll be 37 by the time the next WC comes around.

The NL qualifies us for the WC. We are in that cycle.

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122222270#Comment_122222270

well I guess it’s a question of picking the team for the NL that is best for that competition and so best to put us for an advantageous ranking for the eventual playoffs in 2025/26 or pick an inferior option now and get that option blooded ahead of next years group campaign while sacrificing our best team for the NL as things stand while also trusting that Coleman will be a busted flush compared to the other guy next year.

Cienciano

Diego Torres is the David Luiz of journalists.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122222403#Comment_122222403

To qualify for a play off, we would have to top the NL group. Thats the criteria for the WC play offs. Coming 2nd won't qualify you for a play off. Do you really think we have a credible chance of topping a group with England in it???

Our best chance is clearly finishing 2nd in main qualification with the NL being used to incorporate a new RB. If not now, when?

Coleman has been great but its time to phase him out.

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122222554#Comment_122222554

I haven’t seen anything that you have to top the NL group to make the playoff but I’ll take your word for it.

What back 4 or 5 would you be currently selecting to blood in the NL?

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122222591#Comment_122222591

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/68209107

The four best Nations League group winners who do not qualify either of those ways will also go into the World Cup play-offs.

Updated at the start of the year. I don't think its a realistic route for Ireland solely based on the group we have. Nothing wrong with playing Coleman against England in September and phasing him out after that.

What back 4 or 5 would you be currently selecting to blood in the NL?

I've no idea but probably a chat more suited to the Ireland thread and not the SCs one.

Raoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122222160#Comment_122222160

What has Coleman got to do with Shane Duffy starting?

Patsy167

Richie Sadlier is addicted to misery. Last weeks 'episode' podcast with Damien Duff was great but back to the trenches this week.

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122223027#Comment_122223027

Ah it’s pretty obvious if you read it in context, if it’s not obvious to you then grand. We’ll let the thread go back on subject.

Dante

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122223027#Comment_122223027

Coleman is ridin' Duffy on the sly.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122220933#Comment_122220933

The Hungary game was also an end of season 'dont get injured' friendly 11 days before the Euros kick off, while Scotland was an actual competitive match, so I'm not sure they're particularly comparable…

This 'one or the other' angle feels like a moot debate anyway though. Kenny wasn't good enough. O'Shea is also not good enough purely by dint of having managed 3 friendly games in his life. Sure his own assistant has far more experience, having actually managed a whole bunch of matches for Palace's reserves with success.

I think the very low bar of 'has actually ever done this thing before' isn't being too unfair. As Duff said, I'd love O'Shea to go off and take a League 1, LOI, or a Premier League EDS squad, and learn management week in week out.

EltonJohn69

Man City’s Reddit is something else

Musicrules

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122223948#Comment_122223948

That's the double standards I'm talking about. Do you remember Kenny's first 12 games? It was diabolical but he was still having his name sung after multiple other failures. O Shea in 3 matches has already got a better win than Kenny had in more than 3 years. I don't think O Shea should get the job but why are those who defended Kenny for 3 horrible years so quick to dismiss a different manager after 3 games?

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122224184#Comment_122224184

I'm not sure that's actually a double standard… I mean, only one of these two being discussed was actually even in the job. Kenny had no shortage of vocal doubters who made clear their dissatisfaction with someone who had only succeeded in the LOI right from the beginning. O'Shea's lack of experience is such that he's not even being considered for the job in the first place - something people are re-emphasizing in this brief window lest the FAI cheap out on him if they think they can get away with it.

Ideally he'll serve out his final match, go off and start managing at the appropriate level, and we get a manager who's managed at least one or two competitive games in their lives before.

Musicrules

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122224637#Comment_122224637

It is a double standard. Some backed the previous manager for over 3 years when it was obvious he was way out of his depth long before that but now the same people are not giving O Shea a chance after 3 games despite already achieving a better victory than the previous manager ever did.

O Shea is trying to play in 'the right way', he's giving young players a chance. Isn't that why the previous manager was supported for over 3 years?

Tucker.Tim

Gavin Cooney seems to be high on his own supply on the Ireland manager story, played well all campaign and now is scuffing the winning shot at an open goal when it comes to O’Shea. It’s as good as a lock he’s going to be the Ireland manager.

halfpastneverr

Has anyone else expressed an interest in the job like? all the speculation for the likes of Carsley, Keane, Poyet, Sagnol etc has died completely since Jonathan Hill jacked it in after his euro-giant-level impersonation of John Delaney. It'll be O'Shea, barring a miracle that someone else suitably qualified would actually risk taking the job on.

bamayang

I got some laugh off the smugness of Murph waxing on about moving to the arse hole of nowhere to write his book. Anyone else would have had a laugh at themselves while telling that story, but he’s ever so slightly above that. Delightful burn from Ken “most Irish man of the year”