Second Captains Part II

Beersmith

kilns wrote: »

Was looking forward to it too but then realized Eoin was not presenting and they will have bloody Miguel Delaney on

Yeah it wasn't a good episode at all. Ken went off on strange tangents about messi inspiring other younger players via TV and mobile phones. Seemed like 4 or 4 half points balled up together and Murph didn't reel him in like Eoin would have. RH on again and he was good.

al87987

The messi take was a weird one alright, thought he might have gone after him for his poor recent record in the champions league.

RH is always good. Him, Tim Vickery and Jonathan Wilson would be my favourites.

MercuryBoy

Is Miguel Delaney to Pochettino what Duncan Castles is to Jose Mourinho? i.e a paid cheerleader?

In the last few weeks Delaney has "linked" Pochettino to the jobs at Juve and Barca, only for them to give the job to someone else a few hours later..fairly lame

jaykay74

Todays pod should be good

Ep 1836: Football Men Take Aim At Ken Again......

Say Your Number

Ken and Giles did seem to agree that Messi playing that way for Munich wouldn't be a problem.

kilns

MercuryBoy wrote: »

Is Miguel Delaney to Pochettino what Duncan Castles is to Jose Mourinho? i.e a paid cheerleader?

In the last few weeks Delaney has "linked" Pochettino to the jobs at Juve and Barca, only for them to give the job to someone else a few hours later..fairly lame

No he is just a terrible journalist

Hippo

Beersmith wrote: »

Yeah it wasn't a good episode at all. Ken went off on strange tangents about messi inspiring other younger players via TV and mobile phones. Seemed like 4 or 4 half points balled up together and Murph didn't reel him in like Eoin would have. RH on again and he was good.

RH? Surely you mean 'Raffi'.

Arghus

Say Your Number wrote: »

Ken and Giles did seem to agree that Messi playing that way for Munich wouldn't be a problem.

I'm sure he agrees with plenty.

Say Your Number

Arghus wrote: »

I'm sure he agrees with plenty.

I'm sure if you showed Giles some of Ken's articles without a name attached, he probably would agree with a fair amount of what he has to say, I'd love to know what Ken said when they met to get that level of disdain anytime his name gets mentioned by Dunphy.

duffman13

Arghus wrote: »

I'm sure he agrees with plenty.

He just took the headline and said I wouldn't agree with anything then he actually says fairly similar things to what Ken said in the article. Enjoyable pod today, I usually miss Eoin but Ciaran did well today. RH is brilliant, loved the story about him correcting Kens grammar

Brock Turnpike

Hippo wrote: »

RH? Surely you mean 'Raffi'.

Was ready to put my fist through the phone with him saying that. I'd say RH can't stand him.

Cienciano

humberklog wrote: »

I can hear new Giles audio bed already.

Over on The Stand with Dunphy they had a pop and a laugh at Ken... "he mustn't know much about football". They didn't mention Ken by name, didn't need to.

From the 2 guys that for years were telling us Ronaldo was shíte

EltonJohn69

Ken got hit hard again today.... I would say his nerves are shot.

cmac2009

EltonJohn69 wrote: »

Ken got hit hard again today.... I would say his nerves are shot.

Liked the cancellation threat that Ken threw at Tim after that atrocious Irish accent attempt.

Cienciano

Dunphy also supported John Delaney up until recent enough.

They need Richie on tomorrow. His bit on PSG and RB Leipzig has gone viral

[Deleted User]

Cienciano wrote: »

Dunphy also supported John Delaney up until recent enough.

They need Richie on tomorrow. His bit on PSG and RB Leipzig has gone viral

He’s been retweeting it just in case it doesn’t.

Jim Root

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

He’s been retweeting it just in case it doesn’t.

Meeeowww

Loafing Oaf

cmac2009 wrote: »

Liked the cancellation threat that Ken threw at Tim after that atrocious Irish accent attempt.

I've always found it bewildering that foreigners use that leprechaun accent to imitate all Irish people. I remember Michael Palin doing it to mimic Bob Geldof. Do the likes of Ken and Bob really sound like Barry Fitzgerald in The Quiet Man to outsiders?

Also, I never knew Murph had played in a Galway county final. I wonder was he really as bad as Ken intimates. They only lost by a few points...

DukeCaboom

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

I've always found it bewildering that foreigners use that leprechaun accent to imitate all Irish people. I remember Michael Palin doing it to mimic Bob Geldof. Do the likes of Ken and Bob really sound like Barry Fitzgerald in The Quiet Man to outsiders?

Also, I never knew Murph had played in a Galway county final. I wonder was he really as bad as Ken intimates. They only lost by a few points...

Think he played Galway u21 football.

When they wer on the radio they'd a bed from local Galway radio of a match murf played in. Something like "ciaran Murphy from on the ball or off the ball"

thenightman

Another appearance by 'Migs' this week, ugh! I'd rather they had Richie on to talk about sportswashing etc, seeing as he got more attention with his 60 seconds on RTE than Delaney will ever receive writing his disjointed articles and being annoyingly inarticulate whenever he's interviewed!

healy1835

It's weeks like this one where you really appreciate what Ian McDimwit brings to proceedings.

Salvation Tambourine

I really enjoyed the sports washing chat yesterday. It was nice to see people challenge the views of 'sports washing is evil'. Rory seemed to think it's just not worth it and doesn't really work whereas Miguel thinks it most definitely does work even if we don't know it.

It's hard to judge because we don't just hear about Qatar and the UAE because of football, it's just a part of the overall advertising strategy.

Hynzieh

I didn't think it was great. There were a lot of highly contentious claims presented as if they were indisputable facts. Like when Rory Smith started going on about how vulture capitalist owners are essentially fine and how people like (large-scale political donor) Stan Kroenke are separate from politics because they are not directly involved in government (a totally naive understanding of how power and money work in the US). Or when Delaney made the claim that using a club to promote your state is exploiting people's 'childlike love of football' but buying a club just so that some already very wealth people can make yet more money off it is somehow not. Ken did challenge some of these points but he'd didn't go hard enough IMO. In fairness, he probably didn't want to totally derail the interview but I am frustrated by how narrow and lazy the conversation about money in football has become.

I agree with the general criticism of the owners of PSG and Man City (for obvious reasons) but, ironically, for all the talk of 'sports washing' the only thing that is getting 'washed' in these conversations is the reputation of the other terrible, non Gulf state owners of football clubs. I fear there is a danger of people starting to think that the problem with morally dubious money in football starts and ends with the Gulf states. Take Smith's claim about the relative harmlessness of vulture capitalist investment. Has anyone heard even a hint of criticism from football journalists of the vulture fund (Elliott Management) that bought AC Milan in 2018? They have made money in some really nasty ways (Google the Guardian article titled: "Vulture funds await Jersey decision on poor countries' debts").

Again, I don't say any of that in defense of Qatar or the UAE, they are clearly horrible and need to be called out, but the moral argument these lads are trying to make doesn't have much weight to it if anything short of what the Gulf states do is essentially given a pass or if investment from sources closer to home is given no scrutiny whatsoever.

Brock Turnpike

Hynzieh wrote: »

I didn't think it was great. There were a lot of highly contentious claims presented as if they were indisputable facts. Like when Rory Smith started going on about how vulture capitalist owners are essentially fine and how people like (large-scale political donor) Stan Kroenke are separate from politics because they are not directly involved in government (a totally naive understanding of how power and money work in the US). Or when Delaney made the claim that using a club to promote your state is exploiting people's 'childlike love of football' but buying a club just so that some already very wealth people can make yet more money off it is somehow not. Ken did challenge some of these points but he'd didn't go hard enough IMO. In fairness, he probably didn't want to totally derail the interview but I am frustrated by how narrow and lazy the conversation about money in football has become.

I agree with the general criticism of the owners of PSG and Man City (for obvious reasons) but, ironically, for all the talk of 'sports washing' the only thing that is getting 'washed' in these conversations is the reputation of the other terrible, non Gulf state owners of football clubs. I fear there is a danger of people starting to think that the problem with morally dubious money in football starts and ends with the Gulf states. Take Smith's claim about the relative harmlessness of vulture capitalist investment. Has anyone heard even a hint of criticism from football journalists of the vulture fund (Elliott Management) that bought AC Milan in 2018? They have made money in some really nasty ways (Google the Guardian article titled: "Vulture funds await Jersey decision on poor countries' debts").

Again, I don't say any of that in defense of Qatar or the UAE, they are clearly horrible and need to be called out, but the moral argument these lads are trying to make doesn't have much weight to it if anything short of what the Gulf states do is essentially given a pass or if investment from sources closer to home is given no scrutiny whatsoever.

In fairness to the SC lads, they had James Montague on to talk about his book "The Billionaires Club" when it was realised a couple of years ago. I'd recommend it if you haven't read it before. It covers not just the Gulf but owners from all over the world and how they got their wealth

Hynzieh

Brock Turnpike wrote: »

In fairness to the SC lads, they had James Montague on to talk about his book "The Billionaires Club" when it was realised a couple of years ago. I'd recommend it if you haven't read it before. It covers not just the Gulf but owners from all over the world and how they got their wealth

No shade meant to the SC lads for yesterday. Like I said, I think Ken did push back a bit, my issue is more with what Delaney and Smith were saying.

I remember that Montague interview, it was very good as you said. The problem is that that's one interview among the countless mentions of the Gulf money. They should be covering the Qataris at the moment with PSG being in the final but (correct me if I'm wrong) Delaney has been writing Gulf state focused articles for well over a year now.

I'm definitively not trying to paint the Gulf states as some sort of victim here, I'm glad they are getting scrutiny, but at some point you would think a good journalist would widen the net a bit. For me, not doing so is a sign of either intellectual laziness or a sheltered worldview in which all the really bad money comes from out foreign.

the_bigman

Miguel has done loads on all different kinds of ownership, to be fair - including English. It's been a fairly big theme of his. And he went to town on Red Bull the other day.

It stands to reason they'd be discussing Gulf states, when it is one of the major Gulf sportswashing projects in the final.

And there are degrees of evil here.

Outright human rights abuses and migrant worker deaths are more direct and worse than many of the effects of the worst types of capitalism.

kilns

the_bigman wrote: »

Miguel has done loads on all different kinds of ownership, to be fair - including English. It's been a fairly big theme of his. And he went to town on Red Bull the other day.

It stands to reason they'd be discussing Gulf states, when it is one of the major Gulf sportswashing projects in the final.

And there are degrees of evil here.

Outright human rights abuses and migrant worker deaths are more direct and worse than many of the effects of the worst types of capitalism.

Miguel is so hard to listen to he is so incoherent. I wish SC would have higher quality contributors than him

Hynzieh

the_bigman wrote: »

Miguel has done loads on all different kinds of ownership, to be fair - including English. It's been a fairly big theme of his. And he went to town on Red Bull the other day.

It stands to reason they'd be discussing Gulf states, when it is one of the major Gulf sportswashing projects in the final.

And there are degrees of evil here.

Outright human rights abuses and migrant worker deaths are more direct and worse than many of the effects of the worst types of capitalism.

I disagree. A lot of the projects in Qatar are being developed by western, privately owned construction firms. So in no way can the exploitation of those workers be separated from capitalism or even western capitalism. Furthermore, capitalism and exploitation are in no way mutually exclusive, especially in the developing world. Just look at Bangladesh. Over 1,000 people were killed in that factory collapse in 2013 while making products in horrendous conditions for companies such as H&M and Walmart (connected to the Kroenke family, don't forget).

On the point about degrees of evil, let's consider the lads who own AC Milan (Elliott). They go around buying sovereign debt second hand for dirt cheap and then sue some of the poorest countries in the world to get full re-payments. Former UK Prime Minister Gordon Brown described the practice as "morally outrageous". The World Bank called vulture funds like Elliott "a threat to debt relief efforts". Their actions also scare away potential investors making it even harder for these countries to build up their economies. That has a direct effect on millions of people in some of the world's poorest countries.

Then you could mention Abramovich, a somewhat forgotten figure these days. He 'made' his fortune in the insanely corrupt and disastrous "shock therapy" economic reforms of the 90's that was foisted upon the former Soviet countries by the west. Many economists estimate that millions more people died than would have been the case if the pre-transition economic trends had continued. This was due to unemployment, mental stress caused by economic insecurity, a sharp rise in alcoholism and other health problems.

So these are not people who made their money in abstract, benign ways. They are very connected to politics and their actions have directly and adversely affected the lives of millions of people. The Gulf states aren't some outlier evil among football owners. There are at least a handful of others who are on their level.

Say Your Number

Not a fan of all the snooker bashing this week

Beersmith

Good episode yesterday. The kenny talking cabbage comment and the coombe raider section at the end was very funny