Cannabis Legalisation Ireland

Ultrflat

I don't have a problem with ending prohibition on weed.

How ever I draw the line at bunch of stoners walking around Dublin in some pathetic attempt of protesting about it. While smoking joints the size of sausages and claiming this is the way to get it legalized. Because its not. It just signif's that you have no idea how to present an argument.

If you want to fight to leagalize weed then I'm behind it but do it in a way that's both informative and educational. More people are likely to listen. When you walk around monged out of your mind coming up with bull ****...

Then your only hurting your self.

Yes I partake. I don't feel the need to shove it in peoples faces.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Absolutely.

And the only arguments people can produce in favour of prohibition are the nonsensical "it's trendy" and the hypocritically lazy generalisation "everyone who smokes it is a loser".

What about the fact that countries with with no real culture of alcohol consumption, or even an outright prohibition - such as in muslim countries - also tend to have very low levels of alcoholics?

And those countries with the highest consumption of alcohol, tend to have the highest amount of alcoholics!?

You cannot escape the fact that the culture of drug use creates the subculture of problem users. The bigger and more open the culture, the more problem users you will create.

If you opened public houses tomorrow, legally selling crack or heroin to anyone over 18... like we do with alcohol... (which is a much more dangerous drug btw) the country would very quickly develop many multiples of the problem users we currently have today with those drugs.

Just because most people can avoid abusing a drug doesn't mean their use has no effect on society. Ubiquitous drug use creates problem users... always has and always will.

Our culture of alcohol consumption has had disastrous consequences on millions of individuals throughout our history, and 1,000's of families have been completely destroyed by that particular drug culture. It's actually the moderate users that create the culture, that in turn destroys people's lives!

Saying I don't have a problem, and my friends don't have a problem, Steve Jobs didn't have a problem... therefore what's the problem? Sorry but that's head in the sand sort of thinking. We need more intelligent thinking than this... we need people who can look at the bigger picture, and not just view this through their own very small and misguided prism of the world.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya!

Ultrflat wrote: »

I don't have a problem with ending prohibition on weed.

How ever I draw the line at bunch of stoners walking around Dublin in some pathetic attempt of protesting about it. While smoking joints the size of sausages and claiming this is the way to get it legalized. Because its not. It just signif's that you have no idea how to present an argument.

If you want to fight to leagalize weed then I'm behind it but do it in a way that's both informative and educational. More people are likely to listen. When you walk around monged out of your mind coming up with bull ****...

Then your only hurting your self.

Yes I partake. I don't feel the need to shove it in peoples faces.

But that's what many people do when they use the drug... so why would that not be a great way to portray the drug to the masses?

Unless you would prefer to present a more dishonest picture, so as to give a more respectable image of the drug?

It's a hallucinogenic drug... so why wouldn't people who want to push it's legalization, be hallucinating while promoting it? Perfect advertisement!

Wanderer78

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

Yeah maaaan... legalize it all maaaannn... groovy... peace and free love dude! :rolleyes:

You seem so cool and open minded... how can I be more like YOU?

Maybe I should buy some flares too, and we can braid each others hair and sing kumbaya together!

I've no problem if anyone wants to be a pothead... knock yourself out. It's the idea that these notions are somehow revolutionary or that they're going to bring society forward into a new enlightened future.

Everyone chill out, smoke some pot and all society's issues will melt away in a beautiful haze... that's the way I thought too, when I was a smoker.

That's the way potheads think... why can't everyone else just chill out and enjoy the buzz. Your typical pothead thinks if only we could get more people to smoke, everyone would see the world in a new revolutionary way... we'd transcend all these silly problems we have and become a new breed of people!

Cannabis can be fun, but if you spend enough time on it your brain gradually turns to mush... And don't give me that BS about using it properly - everyone thinks they use it the "right" way. And they're all wrong!

You could transport all of these people back into the 60's, and their braindead ideas for society would be just as revolutionary and groundbreaking as those lads...

I'm sure 50 years from now, we'll have the same people thinking the same copy and paste thoughts too. Evolution clearly is a very slow process... (considerably slower for some people!) :pac:

what are you even trying to say???

Gretas Gonna Get Ya!

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

But that's what many people do when they use the drug... so why would that not be a great way to portray the drug to the masses?

Unless you would prefer to present a more dishonest picture, so as to give a more respectable image of the drug?

It's a hallucinogenic drug... so why wouldn't people who want to push it's legalization, be hallucinating while promoting it? Perfect advertisement!

Not really... most stoners will smoke at home or in a more secluded area. Dealing with loads of strangers isn't the most attractive thing. And I don't think I've ever hallucinated while stoned. You must be mixing.

In any case, public displays of it's effects only reinforce the stereotypes, and detract from any non-stoners supporting the movement. Showing that it's something that people can partake of responsibly, would be the best way to show it off.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya!

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

What about the fact that countries with with no real culture of alcohol consumption, or even an outright prohibition - such as in muslim countries - also tend to have very low levels of alcoholics?

Do they though? I have never researched that to see what the actual figures are or if they are figures that are compiled in useful ways. You did remind me of this article for example however which I read a few years ago.

As I said in my previous post - we already have a drug culture and we already have problem users. Legalising the drug is not suddenly going to make these things a reality out of nowhere.

Also what happens - we see it recently for example with the figures on abortion in Ireland since the referendum - is that much of the existing problem is under the radar and we have no good figures on the realities. When we make it legal and take it out from the black market we suddenly get better figures. And this can make it _appear_ that making the thing legal - caused this sudden increase in the figures.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

You cannot escape the fact that the culture of drug use creates the subculture of problem users.

You can say that about anything however. From computer games to guns. And everything in between. You bring some new product or service to the market - you will create problem users. No one wants to "escape" from the fact as you put it. Rather we believe that fact alone is not an excuse to make or keep something illegal. We should not "escape" the fact but move forward cognizant of it and accounting for it.

The only people I see trying to "escape" it in other words - are the people who give up and throw their hands in the air and just demand that it all be illegal as if that will make the issue(s) magically go away. But it doesn't. It just NIBY-ifies them.

So you need to get into that "bigger picture" and broader thinking that you are recommending for others. Because I am not seeing it here.

Wanderer78

Deleted User wrote: »

Not really... most stoners will smoke at home or in a more secluded area. Dealing with loads of strangers isn't the most attractive thing. And I don't think I've ever hallucinated while stoned. You must be mixing.

In any case, public displays of it's effects only reinforce the stereotypes, and detract from any non-stoners supporting the movement. Showing that it's something that people can partake of responsibly would be the best way to show it off.

common enough amongst the autistic community!

Gretas Gonna Get Ya!

Deleted User wrote: »

Not really... most stoners will smoke at home or in a more secluded area. Dealing with loads of strangers isn't the most attractive thing. And I don't think I've ever hallucinated while stoned. You must be mixing.

In any case, public displays of it's effects only reinforce the stereotypes, and detract from any non-stoners supporting the movement. Showing that it's something that people can partake of responsibly, would be the best way to show it off.

But the stereotypes are true... I was a smoker for years, myself and everyone else who used it were basically dead to the world while on it.

And that's it's great appeal of course... people want to disconnect from society and reality for a while.

So if you want to promote its use and legalization - do it honestly. Show people exactly what you behave like when using the drug.

You must not have used it much or used any decent quantities, if you've never hallucinated - it's a very common effect. As are anxiety, paranoia, impaired concentration, short term memory etc etc...

Hence why you're not fit do almost anything while on it... except sit around and laugh at your own stupid thoughts. (Which of course seem so profound and amazing to you!)

Legalise it.

Thelonious Monk

I like some from time to time and trying to acquire it means I as a grown man have to be involved in ridiculous clandestine operations but that's just how it is.
Ireland is too conservative at a political level for it ever to be legalised here. If you're a casual user like myself it doesn't really make any difference, it's still not that hard to get, so although I would like it to be legalised it wouldn't really make any difference to me personally.

Thelonious Monk

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

Yeah maaaan... legalize it all maaaannn... groovy... peace and free love dude! :rolleyes:

You seem so cool and open minded... how can I be more like YOU?

Such a lame post

Gretas Gonna Get Ya!

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

But the stereotypes are true... I was a smoker for years, myself and everyone else who used it were basically dead to the world while on it.

And I responded to that but you decided to skip that part of my original post. Your personal anecdote is just that. Personal. It does not support any stereotype nor does it represent the whole.

I would not represent the entire industry of alcohol by picking out one single user who was an alcoholic and fits some stereotype of alcoholics. So why would we do it here?

It sounds like it was the wrong drug for you at the time you used it. Which we already know as we have studies already showing that the age of use should be higher than alcohol. But the fact it is an underground drug and not regulated and sold legitimately means we also have no useful tools to identify problem users either. Your average drug pusher does not tend to say "Oh by the say you might not want this drug if you have the following preexisting conditions or tendencies" or "Oh the last batch made you a little paranoid well here I have a different blend that accounts for that in the average user".

These are all things we need to improve and I do not see how to do that in a climate of black market product - taboo - and criminalisation of the user.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

So if you want to promote its use and legalization - do it honestly. Show people exactly what you behave like when using the drug.

No we should run trials and use the correct procedures of epidemiology to show how people in general act on it and how it affects them. We should not pick any one anecdote or contrived set of people. How you act when you used it differs so widely from the times I would have used it for example - that anecdote helps nothing.

And we should base those trials on representations of the actual product we would be selling if it were legal and not the kinds of things you were hawked when you were getting it illegally.

EmmetSpiceland

I don’t think “legalising” is a good idea. I, certainly, believe it is a waste of Garda time to be raiding grow houses or “busting” a dealer.

My main fear is people taking up weed smoking at an early age. It just isn’t good for “developing” brains. Anyone I know that smoked the weed when we were growing up, the ones who didn’t like sports, just became slow witted and unhealthy.

Most went nowhere, they’d still be living at home “puffing” their life away now. With their poor parents worried about who will look after the guy when they are gone. It’s just a very sad situation.

If it was ever to be “legalised” I would like to see excessive punishments for those found “dealing” to anyone under 18. We really don’t need anymore of these infantilised, grown assed, man-children, addicted to the weed, and computer games, and being cared for by their, pension age, parents.

Thelonious Monk

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

I don’t think “legalising” is a good idea. I, certainly, believe it is a waste of Garda time to be raiding grow houses or “busting” a dealer.

My main fear is people taking up weed smoking at an early age. It just isn’t good for “developing” brains. Anyone I know that smoked the weed when we were growing up, the ones who didn’t like sports, just became slow witted and unhealthy.

Most went nowhere, they’d still be living at home “puffing” their life away now. With their poor parents worried about who will look after the guy when they are gone. It’s just a very sad situation.

If it was ever to be “legalised” I would like to see excessive punishments for those found “dealing” to anyone under 18. We really don’t need anymore of these infantilised, grown assed, man-children, addicted to the weed, and computer games, and being cared for by their, pension age, parents.

Well it wasn't legal in the 90s and me and my friends used to get stoned all the time, all of us turned out ok and have good careers etc. And we were all crap at sports!
I would say the people you're talking about wouldn't have made much of themselves either way, wouldn't put it down to reefer.

Wanderer78

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Well it wasn't legal in the 90s and me and my friends used to get stoned all the time, all of us turned out ok and have good careers etc.And we were all crap at sports!
I would say the people you're talking about wouldn't have made much of themselves either way, wouldn't put it down to reefer.

those that struggle with it, more than likely have underlining issues

My own take is that it will be legalised in the UK long before here.

And when that happens prohibition becomes a farce here as people will just head over the border to buy it. And then we'll be forced to adapt as well.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya!

Deleted User wrote: »

Do they though? I have never researched that to see what the actual figures are or if they are figures that are compiled in useful ways. You did remind me of this article for example however which I read a few years ago.

As I said in my previous post - we already have a drug culture and we already have problem users. Legalising the drug is not suddenly going to make these things a reality out of nowhere.

Also what happens - we see it recently for example with the figures on abortion in Ireland since the referendum - is that much of the existing problem is under the radar and we have no good figures on the realities. When we make it legal and take it out from the black market we suddenly get better figures. And this can make it _appear_ that making the thing legal - caused this sudden increase in the figures.

Yes, they do... lower levels of alcohol consumption directly results in lower levels of alcoholism.

The problem with the anti prohibition arguments, is that western examples of prohibition didn't really remove most of the consumption - it just went underground. So making the argument that banning a drug doesn't work, is a non argument if you don't alter the culture.

Legalizing something like cannabis, along with promoting all of it's BS unproven health benefits etc... is basically repeating the same mistakes we made with alcohol and tobacco... hundreds of years after we should have learned our lessons from those mistakes.

Deleted User wrote: »

You can say that about anything however. From computer games to guns. And everything in between. You bring some new product or service to the market - you will create problem users. No one wants to "escape" from the fact as you put it. Rather we believe that fact alone is not an excuse to make or keep something illegal. We should not "escape" the fact but move forward cognizant of it and accounting for it.

The only people I see trying to "escape" it in other words - are the people who give up and throw their hands in the air and just demand that it all be illegal as if that will make the issue(s) magically go away. But it doesn't. It just NIBY-ifies them.

So you need to get into that "bigger picture" and broader thinking that you are recommending for others. Because I am not seeing it here.

It's not enough to be cognizant of the guaranteed problems that we will create... as you put it.

What does being cognizant of the problems actually do unless you have solution to remedy them?

(The most obvious remedy is not to deliberately create the problem in the first place, while you still have the chance to stop it)

Your attitude that the problem already exists... so what's the point in maintaining it's current legal status... I'm sorry but Ireland's drug problems are nowhere near what they are in other regions (with the exception of alcohol obviously), so that argument is a non-starter.

Legalization can and more than likely will create a much larger drug problem than we currently have. And just like alcohol, it may very well become so widespread that it's basically impossible to get back under control after we open the gates!

Okay, so you mentioned guns... we don't have much of a gun culture in this country. Our gun laws are quite tough, and owning a gun is not the most straight-forward process.

Regardless of what some deluded Americans will tell, a gun culture and a country packed full of guns... creates more problem gun users and more gun crimes. The facts show this. And the facts also show that countries like Australia that basically banned gun ownership for most citizens... dramatically reduced problem gun users and gun crimes!

So why would the same not apply to drugs? Crack down on the drug culture, before it gets out of control and you will dramatically reduce problem users and abusers.

Our drug laws are not working very well... but make no mistake, they certainly are still keeping the drug culture from exploding like it could.

Bad laws or ineffective laws, are not an excuse for having no laws... I've never understood that logic. But that's the hairbrained line of thinking that many potheads are in favour of implementing.

If your laws were inadequate for say road traffic offences... you wouldn't address this by creating a free-for-all with little or no laws. That would be considered a dumb idea.

But yet this is the best gameplan some people can come up with for getting a better grip on drug use in society? lol And tragically some places in the world have listened to these clowns, and are going full steam ahead with these madcap ideas!

We're already seeing the very early effects of these braindead policies in certain parts of the US, like San Fran and LA. But it's only the tip of the crazy iceberg that's about to reveal itself...

If we do the same here, we are basically willingly putting our own head in the hangman's noose. But far too many people have their collective heads in the sand to see it.

Anyway, I've had my fill of these type of discussions... they always seem to go the same way. I imagine it's must like watching people make all the wrong moves regarding alcohol way back in the distant past. Those folks who were wise enough to see the coming tital wave, must have been equally frustrated trying to reason with people who could not see any sense. And look where that got us with the booze!

EmmetSpiceland

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Well it wasn't legal in the 90s and me and my friends used to get stoned all the time, all of us turned out ok and have good careers etc. And we were all crap at sports!
I would say the people you're talking about wouldn't have made much of themselves either way, wouldn't put it down to reefer.

Your “standard” didn’t matter, T. There were always a couple of weaker lads who weren’t up to much on the pitch, or even on the street, but damned if they didn’t give it a “go”.

Participation is a huge part of development, being crap isn’t the “issue”. The “common denominator” with the loser lads is that they all smoked the weed from a young age, didn’t play sports and spent their, from their teenage years, indoors, with the curtains closed, playing computer games.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

What about the fact that countries with with no real culture of alcohol consumption, or even an outright prohibition - such as in muslim countries - also tend to have very low levels of alcoholics?

And those countries with the highest consumption of alcohol, tend to have the highest amount of alcoholics!?

You cannot escape the fact that the culture of drug use creates the subculture of problem users. The bigger and more open the culture, the more problem users you will create.

If you opened public houses tomorrow, legally selling crack or heroin to anyone over 18... like we do with alcohol... (which is a much more dangerous drug btw) the country would very quickly develop many multiples of the problem users we currently have today with those drugs.

Just because most people can avoid abusing a drug doesn't mean their use has no effect on society. Ubiquitous drug use creates problem users... always has and always will.

Our culture of alcohol consumption has had disastrous consequences on millions of individuals throughout our history, and 1,000's of families have been completely destroyed by that particular drug culture. It's actually the moderate users that create the culture, that in turn destroys people's lives!

Saying I don't have a problem, and my friends don't have a problem, Steve Jobs didn't have a problem... therefore what's the problem? Sorry but that's head in the sand sort of thinking. We need more intelligent thinking than this... we need people who can look at the bigger picture, and not just view this through their own very small and misguided prism of the world.

I didn't see you make that point in your previous posts?

The culture of drug ABuse creates problems - lots of people use drugs both legal and otherwise are fine - are you avocating prohibition on ALL drugs?

irishblessing

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

Hence why you're not fit do almost anything while on it... except sit around and laugh at your own stupid thoughts. (Which of course seem so profound and amazing to you!)

Two examples for you: I once got stoned and felt so stimulated that I got out a notebook and wrote down a business plan I had been toying with for a while. I followed that through and 5 years later it's proven a great success.

I know people who concepted, wrote and directed very well known ad campaigns after smoking. Most people here would recognise them.

After all your experience in many years of smoking, surely you're aware of the predominately two different strains- Indica and Sativa. You want to chill out, sleep, relax, watch a film, etc? Go for the former. You want to be stimulated, formulate great ideas and flush them out, have fun with your pals while feeling relaxed- go for the latter. Beginning to wonder if you actually smoked before.

Thelonious Monk

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

And look where that got us with the booze!

And yet people would be overwhelmingly in favour of keeping alcohol legal, even with all the trouble it brings. People like to get drunk/high, that's never going to change.

Aongus Von Bismarck

I’d be extremely hesitant about legalising weed. I’ve seen the effects this supposedly harmless drug has on people. My brother started smoking cannabis as a teenager, and he’s now like a character from that Hardy Bucks show. Hanging around a rural town with no ambitions to improve himself, or to face the reality that he’s psychologically addicted to the dissociative effects of cannabis.

He has also mentioned to me that the modern strains of weed are extremely strong, and this is the product being consumed by the majority of users. It’s a drug that is having a devastating impact on the mental health of young men.

I’d also challenge the idea that stoners are relaxed and chilled people. They become extremely angry when their supply of their drugs is affected. My brother and his friends found a large bag of cannabis at a festival a number of years back. Worth hundreds of euros. I was home on holiday at the time, and decided to burn that bag of cannabis as a way of teaching him a lesson, and to make sure he wasn’t tempted to start selling it.

The anger and bile directed at me was astonishing. It’s a nasty, insidious, and dirty drug.

stefanovich

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

I’d be extremely hesitant about legalising weed. I’ve seen the effects this supposedly harmless drug has on people. My brother started smoking cannabis as a teenager, and he’s now like a character from that Hardy Bucks show. Hanging around a rural town with no ambitions to improve himself, or to face the reality that he’s psychologically addicted to the dissociative effects of cannabis.

He has also mentioned to me that the modern strains of weed are extremely strong, and this is the product being consumed by the majority of users. It’s a drug that is having a devastating impact on the mental health of young men.

I’d also challenge the idea that stoners are relaxed and chilled people. They become extremely angry when their supply of their drugs is affected. My brother and his friends found a large bag of cannabis at a festival a number of years back. Worth hundreds of euros. I was home on holiday at the time, and decided to burn that bag of cannabis as a way of teaching him a lesson, and to make sure he wasn’t tempted to start selling it.

The anger and bile directed at me was astonishing. It’s a nasty, insidious, and dirty drug.

If he poured an expensive case of whisky down the drain to teach you a lesson would you be upset?

irishblessing

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

My brother started smoking cannabis as a teenager,

So his growing, adolescent brain was affected as some research has shown to be the case; the issue of minor's (children) partaking in drugs and alcohol is separate to what we are discussing here - the legalisation of cannabis in Ireland for ADULTS.

circadian

stefanovich wrote: »

If he poured an expensive case of whisky down the drain to teach you a lesson would you be upset?

No because AVB is a regular wind up merchant and that story is most likely fabricated. Although, no mention of how rich he is which is new.

BagheeraBlue

do it in private by all means but it ****ing stinks so keep it out of public places

Gretas Gonna Get Ya!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

I didn't see you make that point in your previous posts?

Big shocker, eh... I make different points in different posts.

Creates a bit a problem for you though doesn't it?

How do you explain the lack of alcoholics in countries with very little culture of alcohol consumption?

Makes it very difficult to absolve yourself of blame for problem drug users in society, just because you partake in moderation...

But of course, just like alcohol, most people will bury their heads in the sand and ignore the obvious. Because it suits their agenda to do so. The selfish generation.

I think I agree with George Carlin... we are witnessing the end stages of human civilization. The closing act of our species. And although, like George, I enjoy highlighting the mistakes we are making... I am somewhat indifferent to it all in a way.

Not indifferent enough to join the herd as they march defiantly and stridently off the cliff edge, confident that they'll have a soft landing... but indifferent enough to sit back a watch it unfold.

Good old George was a pot smoker too... go figure! :pac:

Gretas Gonna Get Ya!

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

Yes, they do... lower levels of alcohol consumption directly results in lower levels of alcoholism.

And for many reasons including the article I just linked you to - I simply do not take your word for it. Especially as your word for it just happens to support your own narrative. I would prefer to see the figures on it and how those figures were compiled. Is there actually less alcohol and problems with alcohol in those countries - or do we just _see_ less of it when we glance superficially over.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

So making the argument that banning a drug doesn't work, is a non argument if you don't alter the culture.

And doing the opposite appears to be a non-argument too if you do not alter the culture. The culture around drugs both legal and illegal is worth improving. You will get no argument from me on that.

But it does not constitute an argument against legalising something - or making something illegal which was not already.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

Legalizing something like cannabis, along with promoting all of it's BS unproven health benefits etc... is basically repeating the same mistakes we made with alcohol and tobacco... hundreds of years after we should have learned our lessons from those mistakes.

And we should absolutely learn those lessons. For example not one argument you have seen from me so far has relied on _any_ unproven magical health benefits.

Your words here are not against legalisation therefore. They are against legalising it the wrong way through lies and misinformation. And I wholly agree with you on that. We should not make the same mistakes again and we should proceed with making it legal in an open and honest fashion with no nonsense invented to make it look better than it is.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

What does being cognizant of the problems actually do unless you have solution to remedy them?

As I said the problems are already there. You painting it earlier like "creating a drug culture" and therefore "creating problem users". The problem really is that we already have both. And we should not pretend otherwise.

What we need is the tools to address those problems and the the tools to modify the culture. And I see no way to get those tools by fighting the losing battle we have been fighting for so long now to keep things illegal.

You make it sound like only one side need to come up with solutions and remedies in other words if they want to change the status quo. I do not see it that way. I see it that _we all_ need to find remedies and solutions for the things that exist now and changing the status quo is one option in that fight.

You half mention the similar issues "in other regions" but much like your comments at the start of this post - I am not seeing any hard data from you on this. And I do not take your word for any of it.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

Bad laws or ineffective laws, are not an excuse for having no laws...

And bad or ineffective legislation, regulation and enforcement are also no excuse for not attempting better ones. Anti Drug people love to point out jurisdictions where something was tried and failed while ignoring jurisdictions where things were mostly ok. We see this with drugs. We see it with sex work. We see it in many topics. A quick hand wave of "Oh you want to make this legal well look what happened when X and Y tried that!" as if that is case closed.

For example you mention the US. Some areas of the US have made this drug legal. But they have done it in some truly awful and damaging ways. Some of the choices they have made have already caused damage and I see more damage coming too. So of course anti drug people revel in dancing on that grave stone. Why wouldn't they?

But what they don't want you to notice is that many of the horrible effects we observe are nothing to do with the drug itself but some awful decisions made about them. In one area for example shops are legal for it - but it is almost impossible to get a license. In another area the tax laws on it are so painful that legitimate growers find significantly more profit selling their legitimate product to black markets outside their own state than sell it legitimately within their own state.

And the spin anti drug people have put on these effects has been pretty crass.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

Anyway, I've had my fill of these type of discussions... they always seem to go the same way. I imagine it's must like watching people make all the wrong moves regarding alcohol way back in the distant past.

Speaking of alcohol and "culture" and "problem users" with you is interesting for me because I have been thinking a lot about the drug culture and problem users with alcohol recently. Due to Covid.

You see one difference between the "culture" of alcohol and cannabis is that the former is a lot more social than the latter. We have pubs and barmen and friends around us as we drink. Whereas smoking is often a solitary or near solitary private affair in Ireland now. Compared to say smoking cafes in Amsterdam.

So one part of the "culture" is if our drinking gets out of hands we have barmen and friends around us to spot this and intervene. Question if our drinking is getting out of hand. Taking our car keys if we attempt to drive. And so on.

So when you say "culture" you almost say it like it is defacto a bad thing. But many aspects of a drug culture can be positive.

To that end I have been trying to keep an eye out for studies and papers on the usual scholar sites looking at the effect of lockdown, isolation and quarantine on problem users of alcohol. Either existing problem users or the creation of new ones. So far there have not been many but the figures are _not good_ as prelimiarny small studies are indeed showing increasing relapse rates in existing problem users and increase in consumptions from previous non problem users.

"Drug Culture" can be a positive thing as well as a negative. Our agenda should be to build tools and attributes into the system to nurture the former and hamper the latter.

magic_murph

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

Oh, look at me... I'm so cool and trendy and progressive, because I'm pro cannabis legalization!

(So cool - but yet obviously needing mind altering drugs as a crutch to get through life!) :pac:

Anyone who thinks they are forward thinking or more open minded, because they are pro cannabis legalization... really are about as deluded as it's possible to be. And just another mindless sheep following the crowd.

Also, anyone who thinks cannabis is completely harmless and has no negative health effects or negative effects on society, is also quite clueless and probably hasn't been smoking the stuff for long enough.

(I smoked for years through school and most of college btw - so I know very well what I'm talking about - cannabis has plenty of negative effects, just like any other mind altering addictive substance)

Governments have much more important things to be legislating for, rather than focusing their time on something as irrelevant as whatever drug of choice happens to be in vogue at the time for the "oh so trendy and woke" spaced out hipster generation, who think they are some kind of new revolutionary thinking breed of people.... when in fact most you are just a bad ripoff of characters you've watched on American TV shows!

Ever think the reason you know about the negative effects is because you smoke during school....
(I smoked for years through school and most of college btw - so I know very well what I'm talking about - cannabis has plenty of negative effects, just like any other mind altering addictive substance)

stefanovich

stefanovich wrote: »

If he poured an expensive case of whisky down the drain to teach you a lesson would you be upset?

He is a comedy poster. His entire "schtick" is to post a post which contains a line so lacking in self awareness that it triggers the reader. It was funny and well done at the start and less funny now just cause it's old and done to death. Though he occasionally (like 1 / 50 posts) does manage to put some original spin on it which makes it slightly funny again.

Anyway the "joke" in this post is clearly that he is lacking the self awareness to notice that maybe burning 100s of euros of another persons property was what made them angry - but rather it was that he took the kids drugs away.

BagheeraBlue wrote: »

do it in private by all means but it ****ing stinks so keep it out of public places

Actually I quite like the smell even second hand. I can not say the same for the stink when someone comes into work the day after a night on the Guinness and Whisky though. One guy with the stuff coming out of his pours can pollute an entire office for a day.

But hey - smell is subjective. Who knew

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

How do you explain the lack of alcoholics in countries with very little culture of alcohol consumption?

Hard to explain anything until you present the actual studies on it really. Like that article about Morrocco I posted above. If the figures people like the "WHO" are using are self-reported then that is suspect. Show actual hard data before demanding we "explain" that data please.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

But of course, just like alcohol, most people will bury their heads in the sand and ignore the obvious. Because it suits their agenda to do so. The selfish generation.

But who exactly is ignoring it? Read my posts again for example. I do the opposite of ignoring it. I very much _include_ it in the reasons I have for thinking having it illegal is a bad idea.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

Good old George was a pot smoker too... go figure!

So is Joe Rogan apparently. Shame he has ended up so destitute and unsuccessful