Shelbourne Hotel remove historic statues due to association with slavery - *Read OP**

Strumms

You have to say, whatever about these woke munchers wanting historical statues torn down, what next ? They’ll probably go into said hotel, see two white Irish people (in Ireland mind) behind the reception desk and kick up a fuss that there were no people of black / African ethnicity to greet and talk to them...want THEM torn down.. can people not see what’s going on here ? They want their culture to replace the culture of ours, of us.

jimgoose

Strumms wrote: »

You have to say, whatever about these woke munchers wanting historical statues torn down, what next ? They’ll probably go into said hotel, see two white Irish people (in Ireland mind) behind the reception desk and kick up a fuss that there were no people of black / African ethnicity to greet and talk to them...want THEM torn down.. can people not see what’s going on here ? They want their culture to replace the culture of ours, of us.

Fear not, young Padowan - these people have finally encountered Dark Forces indeed, in the form of the planning department at Dublin City Council. :pac:

conorhal

Strumms wrote: »

You have to say, whatever about these woke munchers wanting historical statues torn down, what next ? They’ll probably go into said hotel, see two white Irish people (in Ireland mind) behind the reception desk and kick up a fuss that there were no people of black / African ethnicity to greet and talk to them...want THEM torn down.. can people not see what’s going on here ? They want their culture to replace the culture of ours, of us.

A lot of this stems from the Marxist entryism of acedemia.


#JoeMcCarthyDidNothingWrong

ohnonotgmail

conorhal wrote: »

A lot of this stems from the Marxist entryism of acedemia.


#JoeMcCarthyDidNothingWrong

complaining about cancel culture and then endorsing Joe McCarthy who had people blacklisted because he didnt like their views. you couldn't make it up.

Strumms

jimgoose wrote: »

Fear not, young Padowan - these people have finally encountered Dark Forces indeed, in the form of the planning department at Dublin City Council. :pac:

I’d be surprised if they get put back but we shall see. I’d say the investigation is just a move to pacify the other side of the argument... “ well after much consideration...” madness, country has gone mad. We are literally handing over and destroying culture that has been admired, respected and enjoyed for 153 years because new arrivals, who are here to get much needed help (apparently) assistances a free leg up, simply don’t like it.... imagine me, arriving in Nairobi say, saying...” ok, now feed me, clothe me, give me money, a place to live, ohh and see that hotel over there.. remove all these statues that have been there 153 years please, actually no please, just do it now.

What next ? Will there be a clamor to turn Connolly Station into a sports campus only accessible to people of color, rename O’Connell st as Ebun Joseph St... are they wonder why Ireland has always had a ’racist policy’ of naming streets after white Irish ?... should we have to remove that statue of Collins and replace it with one of..... :rolleyes:

weldoninhio

nullzero wrote: »

That person seems like an rational individual with well thought out opinions. Love the use of "muh", very entertaining.

Had a look through his twitter, heres one relevant tweet; "if you don't think racism is a problem in the UK & Ireland, read the comments under this. this woman is as Irish as they come but to them it's 'our country and if you're not happy with our racism, go back to where your parents came from, which we probably colonised at some point"

I forgot that Ireland colonised Africa, must have missed that.

This individual is also on youtube tasting foods in those god awful "Irish people try (insert food or drink name) videos. Plenty of SJW nonsense spouted by him there as well.

Thankfully most people are calling him what he is. A clown. He’s from that “TryChannel”, isn’t that where the rapey comedian was from recently??

weldoninhio

Tony EH wrote: »

Exactly.

I'm certainly no expert on ancient Egyptian history, it's a bit before my historical interest point. But I do find it very difficult, very difficult indeed, to buy that there were no slaves involved in the building of the pyramids, given the fact that Egypt regularly used slaves in every day life, like all empires of the time and after.

The reasoning for this belief is very tenuous as well. So, they found some graves of skilled labourers, who were well fed. So what? That doesn't mean that there weren't any slaves doing the heavy lifting and the donkey work.

There's probably no doubt that the passover myth of Jewish slaves and the further Hollywood myth making involving Jews hasn't much basis in fact and slaves or any kind probably weren't involved in the design, or the skilled stone masonry, for sure. But there were thousands and thousands involved in the work to construct the pyramids and other Egyptian structures. Are we really to believe that there were no slaves used at all?

100%. In 500 years they’ll probably find graves and records in Qatar of the well fed designers and engineers who drew up the plans for the WC stadiums. There’ll be no mention of the slave labour used to build them. FIFA are doing their best to hide it now.

conorhal

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

complaining about cancel culture and then endorsing Joe McCarthy who had people blacklisted because he didnt like their views. you couldn't make it up.

You just did.



There is a delicate balance that must be walked to ensure that the fragile liberty we enjoy remains enjoyable.
You don't grant freedom to people that will use that very freedom to dismantle your rights and replace them with authoritatianism, not commies and not fascists.

That delicate balance is mantained by the carefully considered rules of law that protect inalienable rights (which is why courts and jails exist or are you against those also?).
The rule of mobs, (commie or facist) must be crushed. Those that whip these mobs into a frenzyand enable them must be thrown out of any position of power that they use to subvert democratic freedoms also.

A prime example of this was the Arab Spring and the Islamists that used democracy to dismantle democracy.
If your idea of democracy is 'one man, one vote .....one time' (and then democracy has served it's purpose) then by all means cancel those kind of people.

KevRossi

SouthWesterly wrote: »

Does she realise that they depict black on black slavery.?

Yeah, but she'd rather not mention the war. She's also from Benin City, interesting place with an amazing history, but also one of the centres of the slave trade. Her family is part of the more priviliged higher civil service sector in Nigeria, the fact that she went to Uni in the 1980's puts her in the more 'priviliged' part of society there.

She's also never explained to my knowledge what she fled from in Nigeria and why she choose Ireland rather than the UK/USA/Canada/Cameroon/Togo/Ghana, or any other of the traditional destinations of political dissidents from Nigeria.

LineOfBeauty

Heaps of comments about leftist Sharia Law and freedom of speech being denied yet nobody noticed pages ago that the GM of the hotel said that nobody asked for them to be taken down, nobody raised the issue, rather the hotel took it upon themselves to do it.

What you've got here is a hotel doing a spot of virtue signalling and you've got a group of people creating a strawman argument. A perfect storm of nonsense.

Bobblehats

Strumms wrote: »

You have to say, whatever about these woke munchers wanting historical statues torn down, what next ? They’ll probably go into said hotel, see two white Irish people (in Ireland mind) behind the reception desk and kick up a fuss that there were no people of black / African ethnicity to greet and talk to them...want THEM torn down.. can people not see what’s going on here ? They want their culture to replace the culture of ours, of us.

I reckon this sums them up

https://youtu.be/iGhEOyypT2A

ohnonotgmail

conorhal wrote: »

You just did.



There is a delicate balance that must be walked to ensure that the fragile liberty we enjoy remains enjoyable.
You don't grant freedom to people that will use that very freedom to dismantle your rights and replace them with authoritatianism, not commies and not fascists.

That delicate balance is mantained by the carefully considered rules of law that protect inalienable rights (which is why courts and jails exist or are you against those also?).
The rule of mobs, (commie or facist) must be crushed. Those that whip these mobs into a frenzyand enable them must be thrown out of any position of power that they use to subvert democratic freedoms also.

A prime example of this was the Arab Spring and the Islamists that used democracy to dismantle democracy.
If your idea of democracy is 'one man, one vote .....one time' (and then democracy has served it's purpose) then by all means cancel those kind of people.

what does any of that have to do with supporting Joe McCarthy who caused scores of people in hollywood to be blacklisted?

jimgoose

conorhal wrote: »

...You don't grant freedom to people that will use that very freedom to dismantle your rights....

No-one, in most particular not black people, was complaining in the slightest about those statues. However, now that the deed is done, you have fat, beardy, unwashed malcontent nincompoops like that Niall Gleeson person on the Twitter kindly deciding that black people should have been offended by them the whole time. And that sort of mindset, as far as I'm concerned, is considerably more racist than any statue in Ireland.

joe40

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Heaps of comments about leftist Sharia Law and freedom of speech being denied yet nobody noticed pages ago that the GM of the hotel said that nobody asked for them to be taken down, nobody raised the issue, rather the hotel took it upon themselves to do it.

What you've got here is a hotel doing a spot of virtue signalling and you've got a group of people creating a strawman argument. A perfect storm of nonsense.

Exactly, nobody in Ireland went looking to have the statues removed. It was solely the hotel owners decision.
Pages and pages of "what next?" nonsense then follow.
Make up some ridiculous hypothetical nonsense and argue against it.

We live in a democracy, "what happens next?"will depend on what the majority of the people want

eddie73

Censoring Art is a very dodgy game indeed.

While all rational human beings should find slavery, it is not difficult to find a double standard. Being willing to exist in a 1st world 3rd world Geo political system simply has to involve some form of worker exploitation or other. We can continue to pretend that this does not exist, or that we have no part of it, or we can face up to this. Either way, if we blow whistles or protest, or even agree with these protests against the old world values, it still doesn't mean that we are innocent of being part of a world that relies on these values.

How willing would a more affluent person be if they were told the world would finally be rid of slavery, on condition they had to forfeit 50% of their wages and 3 of their properties in order for this to be so? Or even the less affluent?

Therefore, we can't suddenly find art offensive because it depicts slavery..
In fact, it is the job of art to stimulate debate, feelings, reflections and ideas. We cant go around admiring a child's coloring pencil drawing of a rainbow and think that art should stop here.

You have got to account for the zeitgeist of our times too. There is a culture revolution of sorts going on that threatens to throw the baby out with the bath water, to replace it with their own value system.

Leonard Cohen called out a new world that could replace the current one, but it may not be what we wish for at all.

Rambling a bit here. Just summarizing that these statues are icons. They are not celebrations imo of slavery. Yes they do depict slavery. It would be very different if we had a statue of The Earl of Kildare, who made his fortune on the back of the slave industry, standing outside a building. That sort of art would overlap with honoring the person and should be accompanied with an inditing history beneath the statue for all to read. Only fair. These people should not get away with what they did, nor should they have streets named after them. (which is not art btw).

LineOfBeauty

joe40 wrote: »

Exactly, nobody in Ireland went looking to have the statues removed. It was solely the hotel owners decision.
Pages and pages of "what next?" nonsense.
Make up some ridiculous hypothetical nonsense and argue against it.

We live in a democracy, "what happens next?"will depend on what the majority of the people want

Without saying too much, as someone who knows the hotel I can honestly say not a single guest I've come across has asked about those statues (and they ask about almost anything). They were a nonentity but the hotel has tried to get a bit of positive publicity with this and a certain section of people have taken up the cause and turned it into a "the left are trying to destroy freedom" narrative.

On your point, thank God we live in a democracy and let's hope the majority of people aren't so easily fooled and aren't as vitriolic as some of the many posts on this thread.

conorhal

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

what does any of that have to do with supporting Joe McCarthy who caused scores of people in hollywood to be blacklisted?

Goes to show what you know.
McCarthy had absolutely nothing to do with the Hollywood blacklist (a misconception frequently repeated by guess who's to muddy the waters). He was tasked with rooting communiusts from the state department, which he did, it was riddled with infiltrators tasked with subverting democracy.

CrankyHaus

conorhal wrote: »

Goes to show what you know.
McCarthy had absolutely nothing to do with the Hollywood blacklist. He was tasked with rooting communiusts from the state department, which he did, it was riddled with infiltrators tasked with subverting democracy.

His name has become a byword for the broader Anti-Communist Witchhunts of the period, with good reason.


He wasn't above adding a healthy dose of homophobia to the mix either.


Granted Communist infiltration of US institutions was a serious problem at the time. But the witchhunts allowed dishonest opportunists like McCarthy to prosper by ruining innocent people.

Muahahaha

https://twitter.com/EbunJoseph1/status/1288386954485260288

https://twitter.com/EbunJoseph1/status/1288385048182435846

Kivaro

joe40 wrote: »

Exactly, nobody in Ireland went looking to have the statues removed. It was solely the hotel owners decision.
Pages and pages of "what next?" nonsense then follow.
Make up some ridiculous hypothetical nonsense and argue against it.

Everyone knows that. Most people are talking about the reaction of Ebun Joseph and Irish BLM-type people after the removal of the black-on-black slavery statues.

joe40 wrote: »

We live in a democracy, "what happens next?"will depend on what the majority of the people want

That is so funny.
Like the majority in this country agreeing to all of this non-EU economic migration into Ireland under the guise of asylum seekers?
Or how the majority of people in towns around the country having Direct Provision Centres forced on their communities without any consultation or input?
Or how we have no say in how our welfare system is being abused by asylum tourists who will pretty much be guaranteed leave to remain when they fly into Dublin via London/Berlin/Etc.? And then having them tell us what statues we can keep up in our country and what needs to be removed.

CrankyHaus

Muahahaha wrote: »

https://twitter.com/EbunJoseph1/status/1288386954485260288

https://twitter.com/EbunJoseph1/status/1288385048182435846

The more you hear from these people the clearer the resemblance to the narrow-minded God-Botherers we used to be plagued with becomes.

Tony EH

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Heaps of comments about leftist Sharia Law and freedom of speech being denied yet nobody noticed pages ago that the GM of the hotel said that nobody asked for them to be taken down, nobody raised the issue, rather the hotel took it upon themselves to do it.

What you've got here is a hotel doing a spot of virtue signalling and you've got a group of people creating a strawman argument. A perfect storm of nonsense.

Exactly.

Nobody was worried in the slightest about these statues. They were a part of the Dublin landscape for a 150 years and in that time there hasn't been any clamour to take them down because someone somewhere might be offended by them.

Posters banging on about "Marxists"...FFS. :rolleyes:

joe40

Kivaro wrote: »

Everyone knows that. Most people are talking about the reaction of Ebun Joseph and Irish BLM-type people after the removal of the black-on-black slavery statues.

That is so funny.
Like the majority in this country agreeing to all of this non-EU economic migration into Ireland under the guise of asylum seekers?
Or how the majority of people in towns around the country having Direct Provision Centres forced on their communities without any consultation or input?
Or how we have no say in how our welfare system is being abused by asylum tourists who will pretty much be guaranteed leave to remain when they fly into Dublin via London/Berlin/Etc.? And then having them tell us what statues we can keep up in our country and what needs to be removed.

The national party ran candidates opposed to all those things, How many got elected? The people of Ireland know the issues.

Plenty of people here implying that statues were removed in response to pressure. There was zero pressure beforehand and limited support now.

suicide_circus

jimgoose wrote: »

Fear not, young Padowan - these people have finally encountered Dark Forces indeed, in the form of the planning department at Dublin City Council. :pac:

i dont trust the planning dept not to bend the knee to these book burners

Tony EH

Muahahaha wrote: »

https://twitter.com/EbunJoseph1/status/1288386954485260288

https://twitter.com/EbunJoseph1/status/1288385048182435846

She's just making herself look like a fool.

What's her doctorate in anyway?

jimgoose

Tony EH wrote: »

She's just making herself look like a fool.

What's her doctorate in anyway?

PhD in Equality Studies from the UCD School of Social Justice. Horseshit, in short.

CrankyHaus

suicide_circus wrote: »

i dont trust the planning dept not to bend the knee to these book burners

Has anything even been heard from DCC?


Michael McDowell raised the issue in the Seanad and if he sticks with it something might be done. Otherwise I wouldn't be surprised to see the corporate vandalism quietly ignored. Rules mean nothing if they're selectively enforced.

RandomName2

conorhal wrote: »

A lot of this stems from the Marxist entryism of acedemia.


#JoeMcCarthyDidNothingWrong

McCartyism is the living embodiment of cancel culture. That is what it is defined by: censure and threatening peoples' employment based upon objection to a certain political or social perspective. Just because it was anti-Marxist and anti-homosexual doesn't mean that it isn't the exact same MO.

I am hesitant to blame Marxism, not because Marxism is good, but because it seems unfair to sully Karl Marx's name with the type of neanderthal stupidity that is displayed in woke activism. Besides which, he was a privileged old white dude, so I can hardly imagine that someone who describes themselves as woke would want to be associated with them. #notracistjustantiwhite

Academia is a law unto itself. While results have some standing in academia (particularly in science and technology), belonging to the right political culture would also determine your right to employment. Many academic employers explicitly state

Candidates must demonstrate an awareness of equality, diversity and inclusion agenda.

Consequently those who have a different political or social position from the institution are weeded out (so much for diversity of thought, huh?)

Again, like the hotel in question, many universities have absolutely no interest in progressivism in itself, but just want the accolades that go with it. In the same way as in 1950s America an organisation may boast about its blind patriotism, today organizations want to signal their wokesih credentials. Yuck.

RandomName2

Muahahaha wrote: »

https://twitter.com/EbunJoseph1/status/1288386954485260288

She is to the left what Gemma O'Doherty is to the right. Both complete ignoramuses who crave attention, so **** all over social media in order to get it.

Muahahaha

Tony EH wrote: »

She's just making herself look like a fool.

What's her doctorate in anyway?

I believe she runs the Black Studies course in UCD which is politically incorrect, it should have been called the Person of Colour Studies course.


Shes an absolute dose.