Shelbourne Hotel remove historic statues due to association with slavery - *Read OP**

TomTomTim

homes_for_all wrote: »

Far Left and Far Right, united once more in being happy that statues of black people have been taken down.

Show me one person on the "far right" who's happy about this. You're just making up nonsense. This is the work of one side only.

nullzero

TheCitizen wrote: »

What’s ad hominem about it? I think a lot of the reaction to removing these statues outside the Shelbourne is shrill overreaction predictably from certain quarters.

How can an opinion written in text be defined as shrill precisely?

The issue here isn't so much the removal of these statues but the willingness to allow a platform for a person spouting hate filled rhetoric into a country with a negligible level of overt racism.
Ebun Joseph is doing more for the tiny minority of right wing racist loonies in this country than they could ever achieve by themselves.

KrustyUCC

https://twitter.com/uneamino/status/1289085966616010757

Retweeted by Ebun Joseph

Ebun makes a disgrace of herself on national TV but sure anybody who disagrees with her will be using racist rhetoric whatever that means

homes_for_all

TomTomTim wrote: »

Show me one person on the "far right" who's happy about this. You're just making up nonsense. This is the work of one side only.

It might be the work of one side only, but they broadly share the ideals and beliefs of far right racists when it comes to matters like race, segregation etc. Can't imagine too many skinheads will shed a tear that statues of black people are being taken down.

nullzero

ParkRunner wrote: »

Whatever goes up there better be an ethically sourced, culturally pleasing, inoffensive, carbon neutral, locally produced gem.

You forgot vegan and non binary, I'm taking offence because I identify as an umbrella.

Rodney Bathgate

ParkRunner wrote: »

Whatever goes up there better be an ethically sourced, culturally pleasing, inoffensive, carbon neutral, locally produced gem.

Maybe they should move the Luke Kelly statues there?

ParkRunner

nullzero wrote: »

You forgot vegan and non binary, I'm taking offence because I identify as an umbrella.

Can we not just move the big head of luke kelly in front of the Shelbourne and everyone will be happy..well most people.

ParkRunner

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

Maybe they should move the Luke Kelly statues there?

That’s just weird!

nullzero

ParkRunner wrote: »

Can we not just move the big head of luke kelly in front of the Shelbourne and everyone will be happy..well most people.

God no, imagine the riff raff it would attract with tins of emulsion, a terrible idea.

ParkRunner

Art upon art, a symbol of frustration from social deprivation outside one of the most expensive hotels in the country

suicide_circus

tintin67 wrote: »

Does anyone know why Ebun Joseph chose to move to Europe? Why would she put herself through this pain, suffering and obvious unhappiness on a daily basis?

she sacrifices herself for us (we know not what we do) and she has selflessly taken it upon herself to show us the errors of our ways. She's sort of a Christ figure really.

nigeldaniel

Well, all I can say is, God be the day when RTE had decent presenters. These days they seem preoccupied with celebrity entertainment ideas rather than journalistic ideology.

tintin67

suicide_circus wrote: »

she sacrifices herself for us (we know not what we do) and she has selflessly taken it upon herself to show us the errors of our ways. She's sort of a Christ figure really.

Yeh, thought it might be something like that.

WrenBoy

TheCitizen wrote: »

Statues and monuments get moved from time to time. Street names get renamed. It happens. They will not be cancelling the Colosseum don’t be ridiculous

Why not ? Whats the difference, sincerely ?

Tony EH

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

RTÉ should not be giving this woman a platform to spew absolute ignorant and downright poisonous nonsense.

The fact of the matter is, she is probably the only one who is willing to go on TV to discuss the topic from her POV (apart from that O'Dowd ejit in America).

It still didn't stop the discussion from being a farce from her end.

There is no "right" on her side regarding this. The statues DO NOT depict what she has in her head and she needs to adjust her aim.

What we have here is, yet again, fucking dim-witted Americans (or so-called "Irish Americans") sticking their noses into something where they're not wanted and causing a mess, coupled with an opportunist who aspires to be the black go-to person regarding racism in Ireland.

Astonishing drivel altogether.

TheCitizen

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

Thanks for the heads up, mate. Advice from you is always welcome.

Rodney Bathgate

TheCitizen wrote: »

So having a problem with this freeloading grifter makes me a racist? Cop yourself on lad.

TheCitizen

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

So having a problem with this freeloading grifter makes me a racist? Cop yourself on lad.

"freeloading grifter" you see that there is the sort of thing we're talking about, time you woke up there and smelled the coffee.

Rodney Bathgate

TheCitizen wrote: »

"freeloading grifter" you see that there is the sort of thing we're talking about, time you woke up there and smelled the coffee.

It’s more than coffee that you’ve been smelling lately. Lay off the solvents, they are turning your brain to mush.

RandomName2

mike_ie wrote: »

Mod: Thread has gone wildly off topic. Can we please get back to discussing the removal of historic statues from the Shelbourne Hotel and the actual content of the Prime Time discussion, rather than your personal feelings about Dr Ebun Joseph.

It's funny that you should say that. I was all for forgetting about her. Radicals like that thrive on the oxygen of publicity. Then RTE wheeled her on to debate the Shelbourne hotel. She became the face of the debate.

I thought it might be interesting to see how low the thoughts of Ebun Akpoveta go, and they are a objectively pretty low. It informs her entire position in relation to the statues, which are slave iconography, fetishtic symbols, homages to the opulence indulged in by the 'Whites' of Dublin, an embodiment of the way in which the 'White' Irish treat 'Blacks' as servants. These are all her positions, and in turn they become the defense of why it's a good idea to get rid of the statues.

Displaying her innate bias, her lack of logic, and her expediency is all useful is destroying this position. I think destroying this position is important, not because the statues are important. They are, but they are nowhere near as important as combating ignorant demagogy.

KevRossi wrote: »

I think a lot of African-Irish are either plssed off with her, or just embarrassed with her. It's a bit like Michale Lowry in Tipperary, some love him, most people hate him.

She has become a de facto spokesperson for the black community here, much the same way as the radical conservative cleric Iman Halawa was wheeled out for any comments on Muslims, when most Muslims here abhorred the man. Most black Africans I know disagree with her and her methods.

RTE need to get a bit more diversification when talking about diversity. She's a radical, radicals represent the fringes, not the majority.

She does a great disservice to multiculturalism. She says that immigrants that are not 'White' cannot assimilate, and even the concept of doing such is racist. People should speak in their own language, in their own accents, adhere wholly to the customs that they bring, and not allow the culture they have moved to encroach upon their identities. This makes integration a still birth.

I disagree with this position. I think that people of other creeds and cultures can be wholly integrated. Granted that they have to give up some of their identity in doing so, but that is the price. The reward should surely be worth it. Furthermore the country they have come to should learn of and from these different cultures. In doing so both parties will benefit. That's my view.

I think there is nothing more dangerous or damaging than saying that Black Irish will never be the same. She says that to not see the difference between White Irish and Black Irish is racist. Her position is one of the worst that I've witnessed in recent years, and we have an abundance of demagogues to choose from.

jimgoose

TheCitizen wrote: »

"freeloading grifter" you see that there is the sort of thing we're talking about, time you woke up there and smelled the coffee.

She is a freeloading grifter. As well as a racist bully, and someone who sees everything through the prism of "racism".

TheCitizen

WrenBoy wrote: »

Why not ? Whats the difference, sincerely ?

Course there's a difference. Roman ruins are all over Europe. Exploring the sites and learning of the history does not mean celebrating the barbarism that was also part and parcel of human life thousands of years ago. That's totally different than erecting monuments to historical figures that profited from slavery or monuments that perhaps depict people of certain race in a stereotypical or racist fashion.

A bad sign that that needs to spelled out to you and that the shrill cacophony of the whining Right wingers on here is unduly muddying opinion on these pages.

mick087

If there is going to be a movement in Ireland to dicuss African slavery and Irelands role In this, then a better candidate would be required. What happened on RTE will not help the African Slavery cause.

RandomName2

TheCitizen wrote: »

Course there's a difference. Roman ruins are all over Europe. Exploring the sites and learning of the history does not mean celebrating the barbarism that was also part and parcel of human life thousands of years ago. That's totally different than erecting monuments to historical figures that profited from slavery or monuments that perhaps depict people of certain race in a stereotypical or racist fashion.

A bad sign that that needs to spelled out to you and that the shrill cacophony of the whining Right wingers on here is unduly muddying opinion on these pages.

Course there's a difference. Innocuous statues are all over Europe. They are predominantly a modern invention divorced from barbaric times. Enjoying harmless modern art does not mean conflating it with historic barbarism. That's totally different from structures erected by barbaric people that profited from slavery, or monuments which depict customs or traditions which would not be acceptable now.

A bad sign that that needs to spelled out to you and that the shrill cacophony of the whining Left wingers on here is unduly muddying opinion on these pages.

TheCitizen

RandomName2 wrote: »

Course there's a difference. Innocuous statues are all over Europe. They are predominantly a modern invention divorced from barbaric times. Enjoying harmless modern art does not mean conflating it with historic barbarism. That's totally different from structures erected by barbaric people that profited from slavery, or monuments which depict customs or traditions which would not be acceptable now.

A bad sign that that needs to spelled out to you and that the shrill cacophony of the whining Left wingers on here is unduly muddying opinion on these pages.

:pac: Oh right, so we should keep all the monuments to slave drivers and racially motivated depictions of people in place and instead shut down Roman and Greek and Egyptian and other historical sites just cos a lot of Rightists can't handle a bit of progress. Pathetic.

TheCitizen

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

So having a problem with this freeloading grifter makes me a racist? Cop yourself on lad.

jimgoose wrote: »

She is a freeloading grifter. As well as a racist bully, and someone who sees everything through the prism of "racism".

All out stereotyping and racial tropes on display on these pages now. Disgusting.

jimgoose

TheCitizen wrote: »

All out stereotyping and racial tropes on display on these pages now. Disgusting.

Nonsense.

Hego Damask

tintin67 wrote: »

Does anyone know why Ebun Joseph chose to move to Europe? Why would she put herself through this pain, suffering and obvious unhappiness on a daily basis?

Apparently the real actual academics in UCD know she is a joke, but are afraid of saying anything, as sadly she would have them fired and their lives ruined.

She really is a hack.

jimgoose

TheCitizen wrote: »

:pac: Oh right, so we should keep all the monuments to slave drivers and racially motivated depictions of people in place and instead shut down Roman and Greek and Egyptian and other historical sites just cos a lot of Rightists can't handle a bit of progress. Pathetic.

Have you been following what's going on? There are no "racially motivated depictions of people", even when it was thought at one point that one of the statues was of a slave woman - because it depicted people of the same race from an African civilisation that came to an end 3,500 years ago. And the academics have since pointed out that none of the women depicted were slaves, anyway.

RandomName2

TheCitizen wrote: »

:pac: Oh right, so we should keep all the monuments to slave drivers and racially motivated depictions of people in place and instead shut down Roman and Greek and Egyptian and other historical sites just cos a lot of Rightists can't handle a bit of progress. Pathetic.

Oh right, we should keep all the monuments to slave drivers and racially motivated depictions of people in place on the grounds that they are classical and instead allow arbitrary decisions about what can and cannot be displayed in public, irrespective of whether such displays run counter to any of our morés, simply because a lot of Leftists can't handle the fact that their position is inherently contradictory. Pathetic.