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Shelbourne Hotel remove historic statues due to association with slavery - *Read OP**
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That recent Hot Press interview she did made interesting reading. It did seem to me she choose to omit a lot though after reading up on recent Nigerian history. Mentions very little about her fathers role in the government. A government where during the civil war up to 3 million people of the opposing tribe were wiped out. And the rest.
She calls herself an Irish woman of Nigerian descent, yet she was born in and grew up in Nigeria, only then to relocate and be educated in England in her 20s and only moved here to Ireland in her 30s?
She has no prior links to Ireland yet comes here ****stirring, all the while ignoring Irelands own history of colonialisation by the Brits whilst at the same time accusing us of kneeling on the necks of blacks and apparantly describing us Irish as worse than the KKK.
Since when was Ireland the United States? I dont seem to remember reading of any lynchings of black people in these parts. If she despises and keeps knocking Ireland all the time, why is she still living and working here? It's not like she is being forced to stay.
To me, she is a Nigerian economic migrant who happens to live and work in Ireland.
Not saying that Ireland doesnt have racism problems but definitely not to the extent she claims.
She has a loyal group of followers on twitter who swallow every word she comes out with and back her up no matter what she says, mostly upper middle class folks who want to be seen to be right on and woke.
Anyone who challenges her is immediately blocked.
Sure its the same in television interviews, she is let ramble on no matter how stupid the guff she comes out with is.0 -
greymister wrote: »People that don't see the difference is what terrifies me. It seems like that's what has happened to some extent in regards to the statues at the hotel, which is deeply worrying.
This is what annoys me about how the BLM movement has evolved recently. Its main focus was about the police not being allowed murder people with impunity if they think the person they are dealing with is not from a social class where it will have any repercussions for them. Then it became about confederate statues. Um.. okay. Then iconography that was deemed offensive in general (including an immigrant abolitionist who died fighting against the Confederates). It has become about figures like Churchill in England. People wanting to get in on the act here must have searched high and low, and settled on Nubian princesses in front of the Shelbounre.
What's that about police murdering blacks in America? Wait, I thought it was whether that piece of metal around the Nubian girl's ankle was a bangle, or whether Hans Christian Heg represents a white savior?
It's a bit like when someone goes missing and there is a hue and cry, and people want to become part of the action; they often end up making the situation worse by filing false sightings of the missing person. People want to be part of a movement, even if they are actively detrimental to it. There's added monetary motive in the case of BLM - Ebun has presumably been paid for all of her media appearances, and has launched a book (at the low-low price of just €80). She has got me mentioning her name again, which is exactly what she wanted.
I think all the reasonable people among us are able to agree that people should not be dicks to one another. That's a reasonable thing to demand. Attacking someone because of the way they look is not acceptable.
It is when the message gets muddied, when it becomes about unconscious bias, about guilt, about division rather than unity that this simple aim gets undermined. I cannot imagine that terms like 'mansplaining' or 'man-spreading' has helped advance women's rights anywhere, but by God I'm sure that it's helped a couple of individuals get the bit of attention that they craved.0 -
Here's the link to the PBH interview with Kyle Leydon.
https://www.rte.ie/radio/utils/share/radio1/218120060 -
Here's the link to the PBH interview with Kyle Leydon.
https://www.rte.ie/radio/utils/share/radio1/21812006
Fake news.
He's white so doesnt know what he is talking about. :rolleyes:0 -
Here's the link to the PBH interview with Kyle Leydon.
https://www.rte.ie/radio/utils/share/radio1/21812006
Thanks for that.
A very balanced reading of the whole situation by that chap.
When all is said and done, these statues should be put back in their rightful place and this whole sorry affair put to bed.0 -
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That recent Hot Press interview she did made interesting reading. It did seem to me she choose to omit a lot though after reading up on recent Nigerian history. Mentions very little about her fathers role in the government. A government where during the civil war up to 3 million people of the opposing tribe were wiped out. And the rest.
She calls herself an Irish woman of Nigerian descent, yet she was born in and grew up in Nigeria, only then to relocate and be educated in England in her 20s and only moved here to Ireland in her 30s?
She has no prior links to Ireland yet comes here ****stirring, all the while ignoring Irelands own history of colonialisation by the Brits whilst at the same time accusing us of kneeling on the necks of blacks and apparantly describing us Irish as worse than the KKK.
Since when was Ireland the United States? I dont seem to remember reading of any lynchings of black people in these parts. If she despises and keeps knocking Ireland all the time, why is she still living and working here? It's not like she is being forced to stay.
To me, she is a Nigerian economic migrant who happens to live and work in Ireland.
Not saying that Ireland doesnt have racism problems but definitely not to the extent she claims.
An what makes you so sure of this? Are you suggesting she's making up stories about racial abuse?0 -
Anyone else think this whole story is less about racism and BLM than it is about an international hotel chain stealing valuable local fixtures from a historic hotel? Where are the statues now? They are worth over a million together at auction and dont think there isn't a large number rich investors, probably some who sit on the Marriott's board, that have a place already picked out for them in their garden.
Where are the statues? I see not one comment in the vast number of journalist stories about this mention that. We can debate the politics and suitability of them after but personally I think the Marriott should have to cough up the stolen goods. They may own the hotel but they have not legal right to remove historic fixtures from it. A crime has been committed yet all I read is comments on whether a statue is wearing an ankle bracelet or manacle.0 -
An what makes you so sure of this? Are you suggesting she's making up stories about racial abuse?
Let us take a balanced view of it.
I'm sure racism exists in Ireland, I personally have not witnessed any significant overt racism myself, Im white though.
Now, in Dr. Ebun Joseph's life Im sure she has experienced racial abuse. To what levels we may never truely know. Was it higher in the UK vs Ireland? Who knows, either way it is not acceptable.
Do I think she attracts daily racial abuse in Ireland? I doubt it.
Now objectively, Dr. Joseph's past, current and future earnings stem from the study and dissemination of historical, annecdotal, theoretical and personal accounts of racism.
She has a vested interest in the subject. It is perfectly plausable that someone with a vested interest in such an emotive topic would stand to gain considerably with the false inflation or exageration of such claims.
It does her no good to say "racism in Ireland is on the decline".
She also comes across (to me) as a very racist person herself. This is not good when you want to be taken seriously as a bastion against racism. In her recent interview on PT, she was hell bent on her views being heard above all else, even though evidence presented to her that this was not a racial issue.
Would you not agree that there is potential for Dr. Joseph to fabricate stories to support her position?0 -
Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »Do I think she attracts daily racial abuse in Ireland? I doubt it.
She would definitely describe this entire thread as racist. She says all Whites are racist until they experience reeducation.
A Communist talking about factory owners may well occasionally hit on the truth, but it's almost incidental if they do. Their entire veracity is in the shítter given their lack of objectivity, their aims of personal reward, and habitual use of propaganda and outright lies.0 -
Here's the link to the PBH interview with Kyle Leydon.
https://www.rte.ie/radio/utils/share/radio1/21812006
Thanks for the link.0 -
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RandomName2 wrote: ».
It is when the message gets muddied, when it becomes about unconscious bias, about guilt, about division rather than unity that this simple aim gets undermined. I cannot imagine that terms like 'mansplaining' or 'man-spreading' has helped advance women's rights anywhere, but by God I'm sure that it's helped a couple of individuals get the bit of attention that they craved.
On RTE 1 Today programme on Friday a contributor, Alan Farrell TD, made a comment about law to a female contributor (either Colette Brown or Jennifer Whitmore...but I think it was Whitmore). She was in disagreement with Farrell throughout the debate. Rather than counter argue with Farrell, she said "thanks for mansplaining law to me". She thought she'd landed a stinging blow. In reality she'd just shown herself to be sexist.0 -
Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »Let us take a balanced view of it.
I'm sure racism exists in Ireland, I personally have not witnessed any significant overt racism myself, Im white though.
Now, in Dr. Ebun Joseph's life Im sure she has experienced racial abuse. To what levels we may never truely know. Was it higher in the UK vs Ireland? Who knows, either way it is not acceptable.
Do I think she attracts daily racial abuse in Ireland? I doubt it.
Now objectively, Dr. Joseph's past, current and future earnings stem from the study and dissemination of historical, annecdotal, theoretical and personal accounts of racism.
She has a vested interest in the subject. It is perfectly plausable that someone with a vested interest in such an emotive topic would stand to gain considerably with the false inflation or exageration of such claims.
It does her no good to say "racism in Ireland is on the decline".
She also comes across (to me) as a very racist person herself. This is not good when you want to be taken seriously as a bastion against racism. In her recent interview on PT, she was hell bent on her views being heard above all else, even though evidence presented to her that this was not a racial issue.
Would you not agree that there is potential for Dr. Joseph to fabricate stories to support her position?
Racism does exsist in Ireland it exsists in all forms and ways.
After her appearance on RTE my opinion is she would not be a good candidate to discuss racism in Ireland.
Ok her speciality subject on the RTE programme was slaves and racism towards black people in Ireland.
I think she has put this cause back and done more harm than good.
Im sure there are much more better people than that of this Lady to discuss, bring to public a better version of racism towards the black community in Ireland.0 -
Racism does exsist in Ireland it exsists in all forms and ways.
I can hardly think of a single thing that I hate more than racism.
Except for the Belgians*
(*I think that I can get away with that joke as long as I put a white European nation there. It would be the same joke if I said "the Chinese" or "the Nigerians" but sure people would get offended then......and that's the crazy thing really)0 -
Donald Trump wrote: »I can hardly think of a single thing that I hate more than racism.
Except for the Belgians*
(*I think that I can get away with that joke as long as I put a white European nation there. It would be the same joke if I said "the Chinese" or "the Nigerians" but sure people would get offended then......and that's the crazy thing really)
I think the joke you're trying to remember is; "There's only two things I hate in this world: people who are intolerant of other people's cultures and the Dutch"0 -
While I can accept that Wikipedia sometimes gets things wrong, this is an interesting piece on the hotel and the statues. I wonder if that lady from Prime Time has read this....
A major redesign by John McCurdy was completed in 1867, with the Foundry of Val d'Osne casting the four external caryatid style torchère statues. These were based on two repeated beaux-arts neoclassical models originally sculpted by the prolific French sculptor Mathurin Moreau entitled Égyptienne - the two female Ancient Egyptian[7] figures flanking either side of the front door, and Négresse - the two female ancient Ku****e (Nubian)[8] figures flanking either corner of the main building. All four statues are wearing gold coloured anklets, and are draped, with jewellery picked out in gilt while supporting a torch with a frosted glass flambeau shade.[9][10][11] All four statues are on a circular base with a further square metal plinth with cartouches to the angles indicating royal descent.[12]
In feint writing at the front of the circular base of all four statues can be seen the name of the foundry which produced the statues Val d'Osne. Of the several other examples of the castings, the most notable can be seen in the porch of the Hôtel de ville (town hall) in the French town of Remiremont as well as outside the mausoleum of the architect Temple Hoyne Buell[13][14] in Denver, Colarado and in the Jardins do Palácio de Cristal in Porto.[15][16][17] In all three cases the door is flanked either side by one Égyptienne and one Négresse statue indicating parity.
In July 2020, the statues at the front of the building were removed by management as a precautionary response to the toppling and removal of statues following on from the killing of George Floyd and Black Lives Matter protests. This move resulted from the mistaken belief that either two or all four of the statues represented nubian slaves shown in manacles.[18] Both histories of the Hotel by Elizabeth Bowen (1951) and Michael O'Sullivan (1999) state that two of the statues represent slaves or servants with Bowen stating "on each stands a female statue, Nubian in aspect, holding a torch shaped lamp. Two of the four are princesses; two are slave girls". Neither book notes the source of the information and neither book cites the original catalogue or primary sources.[19] Other references to castings of the statues have cited them incorrectly alternatively as Egyptian and Greek godesses.[20] Kyle Leyden, an art history lecturer at the University of London, indicated that the statues did not depict slaves as claimed, but rather aristocratic women of Egypt and Africa.[21]
Following the removal of the statues the matter was referred by the Irish Georgian Society to the Planning Enforcement Section of Dublin City Council for investigation0 -
While I can accept that Wikipedia sometimes gets things wrong, this is an interesting piece on the hotel and the statues. I wonder if that lady from Prime Time has read this....
A major redesign by John McCurdy was completed in 1867, with the Foundry of Val d'Osne casting the four external caryatid style torchère statues. These were based on two repeated beaux-arts neoclassical models originally sculpted by the prolific French sculptor Mathurin Moreau entitled Égyptienne - the two female Ancient Egyptian[7] figures flanking either side of the front door, and Négresse - the two female ancient Ku****e (Nubian)[8] figures flanking either corner of the main building. All four statues are wearing gold coloured anklets, and are draped, with jewellery picked out in gilt while supporting a torch with a frosted glass flambeau shade.[9][10][11] All four statues are on a circular base with a further square metal plinth with cartouches to the angles indicating royal descent.[12]
In feint writing at the front of the circular base of all four statues can be seen the name of the foundry which produced the statues Val d'Osne. Of the several other examples of the castings, the most notable can be seen in the porch of the Hôtel de ville (town hall) in the French town of Remiremont as well as outside the mausoleum of the architect Temple Hoyne Buell[13][14] in Denver, Colarado and in the Jardins do Palácio de Cristal in Porto.[15][16][17] In all three cases the door is flanked either side by one Égyptienne and one Négresse statue indicating parity.
In July 2020, the statues at the front of the building were removed by management as a precautionary response to the toppling and removal of statues following on from the killing of George Floyd and Black Lives Matter protests. This move resulted from the mistaken belief that either two or all four of the statues represented nubian slaves shown in manacles.[18] Both histories of the Hotel by Elizabeth Bowen (1951) and Michael O'Sullivan (1999) state that two of the statues represent slaves or servants with Bowen stating "on each stands a female statue, Nubian in aspect, holding a torch shaped lamp. Two of the four are princesses; two are slave girls". Neither book notes the source of the information and neither book cites the original catalogue or primary sources.[19] Other references to castings of the statues have cited them incorrectly alternatively as Egyptian and Greek godesses.[20] Kyle Leyden, an art history lecturer at the University of London, indicated that the statues did not depict slaves as claimed, but rather aristocratic women of Egypt and Africa.[21]
Following the removal of the statues the matter was referred by the Irish Georgian Society to the Planning Enforcement Section of Dublin City Council for investigation
That's kushite for those confused by boards.ie automatic censoring0 -
She thought she'd landed a stinging blow. In reality she'd just shown herself to be sexist.
The non-sexist word for 'man-splaining' is the word 'patronizing'. You can tell it is not sexist, because you can use it regardless of gender. She may have been right for all I know: maybe he was patronizing, but it undermines the strength of the rebuttal by saying 'well, you would say that, what with you being a man'.
Similarly if you say 'you cannot say or do X because of your skin color' and then claim not to be racist, then it comes off as a bit hypocritical. If you don't extend the same restriction to people with the same skin color as yourself: when you do not censure cultural appropriation when it relates to yourself or those you identify with, then you are a proven hypocrite.
The rebuttal to the above statement is that the same rules don't apply when you are talking about a people that are traditionally considered disadvantaged.
This isn't really true though, is it? Skin-heads and knuckle-dragging far-right members are usually from lower social-economic backgrounds and they don't get a pass. I would make a firm bet now that any of those racist anti-Black rallies we've seen in America have been almost universally attended by economically and socially disadvantaged individuals. There are few apologists for them, or if they are, nobody bothers listening to them. Who cares if they are from a back-water town in the rust belt and have no prospects? I don't, or at least I don't think that it gives their racism any validity. You can't go to third level and have no health insurance, so you think that gives the KKK validity: as if it were people of a different race from you who are to blame, and not the political institutions that actually influence your financial situation.
On the contrary, the people who lecture and harangue about racism are almost invariable people with a ton of privilege, people commanding large incomes and a strong media presence.0 -
On RTE 1 Today programme on Friday a contributor, Alan Farrell TD, made a comment about law to a female contributor (either Colette Brown or Jennifer Whitmore...but I think it was Whitmore). She was in disagreement with Farrell throughout the debate. Rather than counter argue with Farrell, she said "thanks for mansplaining law to me". She thought she'd landed a stinging blow. In reality she'd just shown herself to be sexist.
It was Collete Browne and she was spot on - Farrell told her she wasn't a barrister and didn't understand the law and then he also not a barrister decided to explain.0 -
It was Collete Browne and she was spot on - Farrell told her she wasn't a barrister and didn't understand the law and then he also not a barrister decided to explain.
So as RandomName2 says, it may have been patronising, but why make it about gender? Perhaps if he had said "you wouldn't understand lovey"!0 -
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It was Collete Browne and she was spot on - Farrell told her she wasn't a barrister and didn't understand the law and then he also not a barrister decided to explain.
A bit like how Ebun said that the expert in art history was only a PhD candidate so his opinion shouldn't be counted.You know this because............?
Her right to stay is entirely predicated on her having given birth here. Her son automatically got citizenship at birth, thus giving her an automatic entitlement to citizenship and say 'we Irish' in a Nigerian accent from that point onwards. I'm not sure how short a time she was in Ireland before she gave birth, but it was definitely the same year that she moved to Ireland. She was more English than she was Irish when she got citizenship. That legal loophole was closed two years later when 'the racist Irish public' voted to say that at least one parent of a child has to be legally Irish in order for their child to automatically gain Irish citizenship.0 -
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RandomName2 wrote: »A bit like how Ebun said that the expert in art history was only a PhD candidate so his opinion shouldn't be counted.
Her right to stay is entirely predicated on her having given birth here. Her son automatically got citizenship at birth, thus giving her an automatic entitlement to citizenship and say 'we Irish' in a Nigerian accent from that point onwards. I'm not sure how short a time she was in Ireland before she gave birth, but it was definitely the same year that she moved to Ireland. She was more English than she was Irish when she got citizenship. That legal loophole was closed two years later when 'the racist Irish public' voted to say that at least one parent of a child has to be legally Irish in order for their child to automatically gain Irish citizenship.
She's the one who said something like " equality breathes inequality ".
I mean what the actual fuk. Doctor of bullshiite.0 -
The maths works out. Her son is 18 and she arrived in Ireland in 2002. She would have got leave to remain for giving birth to an Irish born child.
If she arrived here post referendum she’d probably be gone by now.
She's not a doctor for nothing :pac:
Well, at least she can count the months.0 -
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Statue will have to go.
What poor taste among those Georgian Society folks.
Lauding a statue of an African girl complete with shackles around her ankles, obediently holding aloft a light to illuminate the path for the lords and ladies below.
http://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/ecatalogue/2010/19th-century-furniture-sculpture-ceramics-silver-and-works-of-art-n08627/lot.154.html
Insofar as the name or title of the sculpture: "Negresse"; historian Donal Hassett explains this was a colonial term used by those who oppressed and plundered Africa.0 -
Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »Let us take a balanced view of it.
I'm sure racism exists in Ireland, I personally have not witnessed any significant overt racism myself, Im white though.
Now, in Dr. Ebun Joseph's life Im sure she has experienced racial abuse. To what levels we may never truely know. Was it higher in the UK vs Ireland? Who knows, either way it is not acceptable.
Do I think she attracts daily racial abuse in Ireland? I doubt it.
Now objectively, Dr. Joseph's past, current and future earnings stem from the study and dissemination of historical, annecdotal, theoretical and personal accounts of racism.
She has a vested interest in the subject. It is perfectly plausable that someone with a vested interest in such an emotive topic would stand to gain considerably with the false inflation or exageration of such claims.
It does her no good to say "racism in Ireland is on the decline".
She also comes across (to me) as a very racist person herself. This is not good when you want to be taken seriously as a bastion against racism. In her recent interview on PT, she was hell bent on her views being heard above all else, even though evidence presented to her that this was not a racial issue.
Would you not agree that there is potential for Dr. Joseph to fabricate stories to support her position?Let us take a balanced view of it.
I was never doing anything else.I'm sure racism exists in Ireland
Whether you're sure or not racism absolutely exists in Ireland, as it does in most societies.I personally have not witnessed any significant overt racism myself, Im white though.
The last three words may explain the former ten. I've never witnessed a gangland killing but I know they happen!Now, in Dr. Ebun Joseph's life Im sure she has experienced racial abuse. To what levels we may never truely know.
Does it matter, surely any is too much- the fact that you would seek to treat it's seriousness and severity by its quantity is troubling.Was it higher in the UK vs Ireland?
Again with the 'quantity' and again I ask you does it matter, is any justified?Who knows, either way it is not acceptable.
Why mention with 'quantity' at all?Now objectively, Dr. Joseph's past, current and future earnings stem from the study and dissemination of historical, annecdotal, theoretical and personal accounts of racism.
She has a vested interest in the subject. It is perfectly plausable that someone with a vested interest in such an emotive topic would stand to gain considerably with the false inflation or exageration of such claims.
So, in this 'balanced' discussion you are at worst asserting and at best implying that Dr Joseph, an accredited academic is falsely inflating issues around race for self financial gain, yet you have produced not a shred of evidence to back that assertion. Tell me is this some thing you believe academics who write/campaign on issues do, or is it only academics of colour who make you uncomfortable.It does her no good to say "racism in Ireland is on the decline".
In a continuation of your 'balanced view', you are now asserting that she lies and subverts data for financial gain...Let's look at facts....The number of racist incidents reported across the country has more than doubled in the first quarter of 2020 compared to the same period last year, according to the latest figures released by the Irish Network Against Racism (INAR).
A total of 276 racists incidents, ranging from racist hate speech, hate crime, to discriminatory incidents, were reported to INAR in the first three months of 2020 compared to 132 in the first quarter of 2019.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30997027.html
Oh the Dr Lucy Michael in that report is 'white' maybe you'll trust her more?She also comes across (to me) as a very racist person herself.
She is not necessarily responsible for your take on her, that's all down to you. It's an absurd suggestion.This is not good when you want to be taken seriously as a bastion against racism.
She is taken seriously because she has a body of work and research on the matter a damn site more than you, I or many of the dog whistling posters in this thread.In her recent interview on PT, she was hell bent on her views being heard above all else, even though evidence presented to her that this was not a racial issue.
No, she was hell bent on being lectured by a man who was lecturing her on race and slavery, a man who has form in conducting a racist campaign in this state in 2004.Would you not agree that there is potential for Dr. Joseph to fabricate stories to support her position?
Not without some evidence and you have provided not a shred and it's an indictment of the moderator of this thread that you are permitted to propagate such egregious innuendo.0 -
BluePlanet wrote: »Lauding a statue of an African girl complete with shackles around her ankles,
What shackles?BluePlanet wrote: »obediently holding aloft a light to illuminate the path for the lords and ladies below.
They are lamps. Lamps tend to do that.BluePlanet wrote: »Insofar as the name or title of the sculpture: "Negresse"; historian Donal Hassett explains this was a colonial term used by those who oppressed and plundered Africa.
Well yes. The other one is called Egyptienne, which was also a term used by those who oppressed and plundered AfricaBluePlanet wrote: »
These aren't the same sculptures.
Mathurin Moreau produced a lot of these pairs, and this pair that you have copied above were sold in sothebys for about €40K.
here is a another, albeit slightly different pair outside Mairie de Remiremont in Remiremont
https://e-monumen.net/wp-content/uploads/570_image_12.jpg0 -
There are no chains going from anklet to anklet.0
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So, in this 'balanced' discussion you are at worst asserting and at best implying that Dr Joseph, an accredited academic is falsely inflating issues around race for self financial gain, yet you have produced not a shred of evidence to back that assertion. Tell me is this some thing you believe academics who write/campaign on issues do, or is it only academics of colour who make you uncomfortable.
In a continuation of your 'balanced view', you are now asserting that she lies and subverts data for financial gain...Let's look at facts....
Absolutely. She is a liar and a racist. I have shown this clearly by looking at her work.
Her work is full of purple prose, but that's not what makes it academically of no value. What makes it less than valueless is that it built upon a rickety shell of lies in order to confirm a set of biases. She has made a living out of this. This is all objectively the case.
Okay, now adopting her voice:
But you don't deserve to comment on this. You are White. Therefore you should not be talking about this. What are you a white savior, using your privilege to talk about this subject of racism as if you know what you are talking about? I bet you say you are not a racist. This makes you a racist. You are White therefore you are racist. When you can admit that we can move forward to a place where you can be anti-racist. Until we do that, you will be engaging in the big lie that Whites perpetuate. This lie has gone on since the birth of our country, for when we got independence we became white and the jack boot was placed by the Irish on the necks of Blacks.She is taken seriously because she has a body of work and research on the matter a damn site more than you, I or many of the dog whistling posters in this thread.
But less so than the art historian whose view she discounted because he was just a PhD candidate who was white.No, she was hell bent on being lectured by a man who was lecturing her on race and slavery, a man who has form in conducting a racist campaign in this state in 2004.
Grist to her mill. Gives her the attention she wants to sell her book.
What was racist about saying that people are only automatically are entitled to citizenship if one of their parents is a citizen? Literally nothing about race there.Not without some evidence and you have provided not a shred and it's an indictment of the moderator of this thread that you are permitted to propagate such egregious innuendo.
How dare he speak! Cancel this man or woman immediately! By lord he should not be allowed to speak!
MFPM, not even TheCitizen tried to defend that racist Ebun. You are like an alt-righter tying their star to Gemma O'Doherty.0
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