Shelbourne Hotel remove historic statues due to association with slavery - *Read OP**

Donald Trump

SoupMonster wrote: »

Mariah Carey. Only found out she is black last year.

She's half Irish is she not as well

suicide_circus

SoupMonster wrote: »

Mariah Carey. Only found out she is black last year.

That must have come as a shock to her

RandomName2

Wibbs wrote: »

Yeah, I'd reckon I'd last 20 seconds, maybe a minute if I aired my views, and they'd be backed up by facts.

I can hear it now.

You say that these are facts, yes, but I say that facts are subjective. Remember the number 3.. or was it an m? See, it depends on your perspective. You may be uncomfortable saying this, but you are a White man, and consequently you have the White privilege perspective (and so on)

CrankyHaus

So any word from DCC or are they all still on holiday?

gailforecast

CrankyHaus wrote: »

So any word from DCC or are they all still on holiday?

It’s wishful thinking to hope that they’ll grow a pair of balls. Hopefully the Georgian Society will keep pressure on them, though I wouldn’t count on it. The complaint will be like a fart in the wind.

Chips Lovell

CrankyHaus wrote: »

So any word from DCC or are they all still on holiday?

gailforecast wrote: »

It’s wishful thinking to hope that they’ll grow a pair of balls. Hopefully the Georgian Society will keep pressure on them, though I wouldn’t count on it. The complaint will be like a fart in the wind.

They began an enforcement action against the Shelboure today.

Edgware

SoupMonster wrote: »

Mariah Carey. Only found out she is black last year.

A bit like Michael Jackson so. When he was dying his whole life flashed before him.
His last words were " Who's that little black kid singing?"

Rodney Bathgate

Funny, I just started to search in google Chrome address bar with ‘is mariah carey ‘ and it gave me lots of auto complete suggestions such as ‘is mariah carey white’ and ‘is mariah carey Irish’ but no ‘is mariah carey black’.

I had ‘is mariah carey bl’ and auto complete suggested ‘is mariah carey blonde’

‘is mariah carey blac’ gives no auto complete suggestions.

Political correctness gone mad.

Yellow_Fern

gailforecast wrote: »

It’s wishful thinking to hope that they’ll grow a pair of balls. Hopefully the Georgian Society will keep pressure on them, though I wouldn’t count on it. The complaint will be like a fart in the wind.

It is very common for it to be the council themselves who are altering protected buildings and I presume illegally.

ilkhanid

RandomName2 wrote: »

I am hesitant to blame Marxism, not because Marxism is good, but because it seems unfair to sully Karl Marx's name with the type of neanderthal stupidity that is displayed in woke activism. Besides which, he was a privileged old white dude, so I can hardly imagine that someone who describes themselves as woke would want to be associated with them. #notracistjustantiwhite

Also....Karl was a man of his time in certain ways. He regarded certain nations and ethnicities as "unhistorical" and expendable so he might have some very problematic views about certain African peoples...and indeed the Irish for that matter.

RandomName2

ilkhanid wrote: »

Also....Karl was a man of his time in certain ways. He regarded certain nations and ethnicities as "unhistorical" and expendable so he might have some very problematic views about certain African peoples...and indeed the Irish for that matter.

Well Marxism isn't really very relevant to the conversation in my opinion, but Communism saw no differences between race, which according to the current idiotic line of thought, is itself racist.

https://www.wiley.com/en-ie/Colorblind+Racism-p-9781509524426

But what about Blacks who were Communist? Is that a conundrum? Some civil rights movements went full hammer and sickle, partially because of Communism's inherent colorblindness. Does that mean that these people were racist?

No thankfully not, because they were not white. If they were white that might actually mean they were racist. Thankfully though, whites cannot experience racism. By definition they can only experience 'reverse racism' and the idea that they even do, is a myth

http://www.aclrc.com/myth-of-reverse-racism

White people can only experience racial prejudice, not racism, because all white people have more power than people of color.

Is it racist to claim that a large section of the globe is immune to racism because all those people, from White Salvadorans to Ukranians, from Redneck hilbillies to Mat Salleh, from Irish to Farang are in a position of privilege (and that therefore you can say whatever you want about them)? Not necessarily. If you say that and you are white, again that can be racist. Take the racism that Irish Travelers experience. Again, this is white based racism. However if you are a person of color and you say this, it cannot be a racist suggestion, for the aforementioned reasons.

The reasons why whites may complain about this sweeping statement is because they want to shore up their positions of privilege. Therefore their complaints on the matter, which were already myths, are clearly motivated by malign intent. Furthermore, it is merely ad hominem to point out that the people of color who most loudly make these claims, tend to be very well paid members of 1st world media or academia. It can be assumed that they speak for their entire community and race. They are the voice of the voiceless, and are motivated entirely by a selfless desire to improve the stock of their people, and not by prospects of personal gain. As it has already been established that criticism of their position does not have any merit, we can assume this entire conversation to have eaten its own tail.

_________________________








Christ sometimes I wish that America went the way of China and no information went in or out and that we could look over the parapet in a hundred years and say 'yo. You got your **** together yet?'

Meanwhile we have people who want to be more like America, using this occasion to show how Ireland was slave central

https://twitter.com/inquisitioneu/status/1288411522457309184

People seem to positively relish the ****show that America is and say 'yes. This is the way'.

https://universityobserver.ie/ireland-must-confront-its-own-antiblackness/

Tony EH

OMM 0000

Another article:

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0806/1157753-shelbourne-statues/

It states that the owners could face criminal prosecution with a maximum fine of over €12 million and two years' imprisonment for failing to comply with planning laws.

Good, I hope these idiots go to jail for importing this American shíte (and it is nonsensical shíte) into Ireland.

ilkhanid

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

The remarkable but was that she was emphatic that only a real expert can decide if they represent slaves,but that didnt stop her insisting a moment later that the statues fetish black bodies. Do we need an expert or not? The Kings Inn has caryatids. Are they fetishing Greek bodies? Isnt fetish also just a way of honoring?

There's also the point that blackness in a statue doesn't necessarily represent physical blackness. Bronze statues look black, yet have historically been used to depict caucasian people. This was common in ancient Greece as well as later times.

Yellow_Fern

Beautiful capture from May 1916.
https://twitter.com/JohnnyD87968172/status/1290024179480186880/photo/1

Quantum Erasure

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Another article:

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0806/1157753-shelbourne-statues/

The Shelbourne Hotel has received a warning letter from Dublin City Council

In the letter, the council points out that the statues are part of a protected structure and were allegedly removed without planning permission.

In its warning letter sent on 29 July, the Planning Enforcement Section of the city council only refers to the issue of the hotel being a protected structure and that the removal of the four statues would be an "unauthorised development".

The owners were told they can make submissions on the matter to the city council within four weeks of receiving the letter.

The city council also points out in the letter that it can issue an enforcement notice if the removal is considered to be unauthorised and that failure to comply could incur criminal penalties.

y0ssar1an22

Two of the statues had been described as depicting "slave girls" and it is believed that the hotel, which is owned and operated by American companies, removed all four without notice because of sensitivity over the Black Lives Matter campaign.
However, art historians have since produced evidence that the statues in fact depict four female royals, two Nubian and two Egyptian, and that the "manacles" which are claimed to be around their feet are anklet jewellery.


the two female Ancient Egyptian[7] figures flanking either side of the front door, and Négresse - the two female ancient Ku****e (Nubian)[8] figures flanking either corner of the main building. All four statues are wearing gold coloured anklets, and are draped, with jewellery picked out in gilt while supporting a torch with a frosted glass flambeau shade.[9][10][11] All four statues are on a circular base with a further square metal plinth with cartouches to the angles indicating royal descent.

the 2 historians that claim there are 2 slaves...Neither book notes the source of the information and neither book cites the original catalogue or primary sources.[19]

Kyle Leyden, an art history lecturer at the University of London, indicated that the statues did not depict slaves as claimed, but rather aristocratic women of Egypt and Africa


i suppose maybe no one knows for sure whether manacles or jewelry.

KevRossi

Yeah, but the historian is white and 'only' a PHD student, so his opinion doesn't count.

y0ssar1an22

KevRossi wrote: »

Yeah, but the historian is white and 'only' a PHD student, so his opinion doesn't count.

i agree. best listen to historians that can cite no evidence other than their own 'feels'. ahead of their time apparently.

he's prob straight as well, so he's ruled out as a credible expert on a number of grounds.

OMM 0000

KevRossi wrote: »

Yeah, but the historian is white and 'only' a PHD student

Sounds like a nazi

Tony EH

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Good, I hope these idiots go to jail for importing this American shíte (and it is nonsensical shíte) into Ireland.

Well, that's probably not going to happen and it ought not to really. But, I do hope that there's some sort of fine involved here.

Yellow_Fern

KevRossi wrote: »

Yeah, but the historian is white and 'only' a PHD student, so his opinion doesn't count.

and he presented the original order for their design from the French artist! As if there is some hidden iconography the buyer hadn't asked for.

I hope this incident is a lesson though. Our heritage is being chipped away all the time. If you ever see spot an old building that has been significantly altered that looks like it might be protected please photograph and report it. Even if nothing is done it preserves an architectural record.

Wibbs

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

i suppose maybe no one knows for sure whether manacles or jewelry.

It's really simple I would have thought. If there's a chain between them they're manacles, if not they're jewellery. Analysis done.

Edgware

ilkhanid wrote: »

Also....Karl was a man of his time in certain ways. He regarded certain nations and ethnicities as "unhistorical" and expendable so he might have some very problematic views about certain African peoples...and indeed the Irish for that matter.

I always thought that his brother Groucho spoke more sense. Of course this country is full of gob****es who think Karl was brilliant

Edgware

KevRossi wrote: »

Yeah, but the historian is white and 'only' a PHD student, so his opinion doesn't count.

He is also a male so his opinion is worthless unless he gives the "right" answer to the question "Do this dress make my arse look fat"
(No fatter than usual is not the right answer)

Rodney Bathgate

Edgware wrote: »

I always thought that his brother Groucho spoke more sense. Of course this country is full of gob****es who think Karl was brilliant

What do you expect when we have one of them in the Áras.

nullzero

RandomName2 wrote: »

https://universityobserver.ie/ireland-must-confront-its-own-antiblackness/

That article is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read in my life.

c.p.w.g.w

nullzero wrote: »

That article is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read in my life.

My favourite bit...

"White propositions of a black inferiority are visible by the way many migrant families are subjected to higher third-level education fees owing to many not having the required Irish citizenship for access to substantially lower Irish fees, or the lack of access to SUSI. Because of the white Irish imagination, structural barriers that affect Black people in this country are overlooked and not considered in our relationship to poverty. "

Same applies to all migrants...no matter what colour...

gailforecast

nullzero wrote: »

That article is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read in my life.

It really is. His main points are:

Black people have to pay more for college: No they don’t.

There is a certain low class of employment reserved for black people: No there isn’t

The native Irish are responsible for Irish Americans racism: No we aren’t. This is like saying that the author is responsible for gang violence.

One thing I notice with a lot of these articles, likewise from any publications Dr. Joseph, is that there are blanket statements like “anti-blackness permeates every aspect of Irish society” with absolutely zero examples given. It just sounds like ramblings. But then again, as a whitey, I have no right to speak on any of this.

Wibbs

gailforecast wrote: »

It really is. His main points are:

Black people have to pay more for college: No they don’t.

There is a certain low class of employment reserved for black people: No there isn’t

The native Irish are responsible for Irish Americans racism: No we aren’t. This is like saying that the author is responsible for gang violence.

One thing I notice with a lot of these articles, likewise from any publications Dr. Joseph, is that there are blanket statements like “anti-blackness permeates every aspect of Irish society” with absolutely zero examples given. It just sounds like ramblings.

What they're doing is lying through their teeth in order to foster their politic, worldview and often career.

gailforecast wrote: »

But then again, as a whitey, I have no right to speak on any of this.

Yep you do and should do. We all should. The phrase "go away to hell you attention seeking muppet" covers the guts of most of this idiocy.

They're also violently allergic to something called Facts, which usually results in anaphylactic shock with symptoms including blocking their ears, shouting down, dog whistling to fellow allergics and screaming racism at the top of their well practised lungs.