Shelbourne Hotel remove historic statues due to association with slavery - *Read OP**

Tombo2001

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

That does not apply here. The poster is talking about one specific person who doesnt seem to value integration. You cant just assume Wibbs would say that about every single first generation immigrant. I also think you are confusing nationality with ethnicity. Personally I don't like guessing people's ethnicity but I wouldn't blame people for arguing she isn't ethnically Irish even though she I believe has Irish nationality.



Right wing isnt a synonym for anti immigration. Supporting moderate immigration is not the same as being anti immigration. In many topic this forum is very leftie, to the point of being exclusionary even.

I can just assume that, and I do. Ive seen too much of this rhetoric to believe any different. The lady in question has been living here for 18 years.

Wibbs

Tombo2001 wrote: »

I can just assume that, and I do. Ive seen too much of this rhetoric to believe any different. The lady in question has been living here for 18 years.

I note you didn't address any of my points(not a shock), but could you answer this question?

Me. Earlier. wrote: »

If I lived in Senegal for 20 years and got a Senegalese passport would you consider me Senegalese?

Tombo2001

Wibbs wrote: »

I note you didn't address any of my points(not a shock), but could you answer this question?

Sure.

There is an Irish lady living in Australia since 2002, and she will run for Australia at the Olympics next year.

Can you imagine her being told that there is nothing Australian about her except the letters on her passport. But you think its ok to do that.

Tombo2001

The most pathetic thing here is all the sycophants reinforcing one another's opinions, like a little cult.

Tony EH

KevRossi wrote: »

I think the fact that she is willing to ignore her peers when they provide substantial evidence (in this case a catalogue) is more worrying for her academic standing. Along with this her inability to admit she was wrong in her initial assessment. We all make mistakes, we have all at times changed opinion when we learn more on a subject. She needs to learn from this, apologise and move on. (But she won't).

In an effort to try and be fair to her, she can't do this. Nobody in public life can, without permanently taking a lot of damage. Even people with extremely minor profiles like Ebun Joseph. She has to just keep ploughing on with her "truth" and ignore the facts of the matter, with the hopes that the whole issue will eventually fade away.

Because if she does actually back down and admit that she was wrong, she'll be absolutely crucified for it.

She's trying to use this as a way to increase her profile and as one of the few black faces on Irish TV, it'll be useful for her to engineer a situation whereby the media will pursue her as a mouthpiece for "race issues".

Eventually, the Shellbourne Statues fiasco will be forgotten. But she's hoping that exposure for her will continue.

KevRossi wrote: »

The sooner the black community find another public face in Ireland, the better.

Again, in fairness, I don't think that anyone in our tiny black community was asking her to be a spokesperson for them.

givyjoe

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Sure.

There is an Irish lady living in Australia since 2002, and she will run for Australia at the Olympics next year.

Can you imagine her being told that there is nothing Australian about her except the letters on her passport. But you think its ok to do that.

My brother has been living in New York since 1989, has 2 grown up kids and a wife since 1991 along with an American passport. He's still my brother and he's still Irish.

Tony EH

imme wrote: »

I don't think they'll be interfered with.
They were OK until they were lighted upon by people seeking to further their own agenda.

Nobody had a problem with them, until some American piped up and shot their mouth off.

Quelle fuckin surprise.

Tombo2001

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Sure.

There is an Irish lady living in Australia since 2002, and she will run for Australia at the Olympics next year.

Can you imagine her being told that there is nothing Australian about her except the letters on her passport. But you think its ok to do that.

You started this post by calling her Irish. Which is it?

Tombo2001

Deleted User wrote: »

You started this post by calling her Irish. Which is it?

You can be both, plain as.

Tombo2001

givyjoe wrote: »

My brother has been living in New York since 1989, has 2 grown up kids and a wife since 1991 along with an American passport. He's still my brother and he's still Irish.

Good stuff, am sure he noted that when he was applying for the passport.

Tony EH

Deleted User wrote: »

Won't happen alas, look at America. Really depressing to see how quickly it happened. 10 years ago I thought we would be ok but we're going down the same path.

The bolded part is the problem.

People need to stop looking at that disaster.

Tombo2001

Lads- cant keep up with all the like minded people having a pop at me at the same time.....can ye slow down a bit.

Wibbs

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Sure.

There is an Irish lady living in Australia since 2002, and she will run for Australia at the Olympics next year.

Can you imagine her being told that there is nothing Australian about her except the letters on her passport. But you think its ok to do that.

Nice avoidance of my point.

A) Do you consider her Australian? BTW a state like the US founded on colonialism so becoming Australian was the option since the get go, rather than requiring a deeper native belonging to the place. Ask the Aborigine people about that...

Would you consider me Senegalese in my original question?

C) If the answer to B is yes, then how would you view me if I was living in Senegal for 18 years, maybe even getting a passport because I had a child there and ran courses and paraded through the Senegalese media accusing the nation and culture and people of being racists and not welcoming of my skin colour and cultural history? Oh I forgot, only Whites can be racists, though ask the Tutsi and Hutu about that angle, for the craic like.

This is the problem I have with this multicultural crap. The pros just unquestioningly accept it must be true, because they've been told it's true and have never actually questioned any of it to any great degree. Or it certainly seems that way because when asked for debate they have remarkably little to come back with and instead roll out the lazy right wing/racists/echochamber.

Tombo2001

Tombo2001 wrote: »

You can be both, plain as.

Remarkable.

gozunda

Tombo2001 wrote: »

The most pathetic thing here is all the sycophants reinforcing one another's opinions, like a little cult.

So hang on a second - the person who has been most vocal about this issue - is by your description a 'lady' and anyone not agreeing with her points of view are 'sycophants'

Are people not allowed to comment on this issue? Or does freedom of expression only work for some?

Btw as 'lady' is looked upon as somewhat of an archaic term these days - I had to check the modern usage of the word ...

These are top two from the urban dictionary.com

Lady (noun)

a masterpeice created by god...

u guys betta treat yo lady right or she will up and leave yawl skank ass!

And

An elegant and good-hearted woman who uses her femininity in the most dignified and endearing way possible.

....

Which one do you mean? :pac:

Donald Trump

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Sure.

There is an Irish lady living in Australia since 2002, and she will run for Australia at the Olympics next year.

Can you imagine her being told that there is nothing Australian about her except the letters on her passport. But you think its ok to do that.

Depends on your definition of "Irish". It means different things to different people.


For example, you will meet plenty of Yanks in the US who will tell you "I'm Irish - my great great grandfather came from X". To them, saying "I'm Irish" means their ancestry.





I had a friend in college who was born in England and moved here before they were 1 year old. The parents were both doctors and moved here to work in hospitals. The friend never bothered to apply for an Irish passport/naturilisation (although they did recently due to Brexit but assume that we are back 3 years ago for the purposes of the exercise!).



I had a work colleague in the US who was second or third generation Irish. He once asked my advice about sending his two teenage kids to Dublin over to some kind of summer camp things for a few weeks. The kids had Irish passports. He wanted them to connect with their heritage. It was to be their first trip abroad alone.



Of they above 2 cases some people will classify the former as being Irish, and some will classify the latter as being Irish. Some will classify neither and some will classify both. I used to get annoyed with Yanks telling me they were Irish until I realised that to them, that meant something different.

Wibbs

And as I was typing out my last reply this pops up:

Tombo2001 wrote: »

The most pathetic thing here is all the sycophants reinforcing one another's opinions, like a little cult.

Again - and god knows it's been reinforced in this thread and others - the pro multicultural and oppressed/oppressor folks have near zero argument beyond having a snide go. This is not a good look and again amply demonstrates the lack of argument behind their position.

And as someone who contrary to your easy and simplistic belief isn't actually a right winger, that's scary. Why? Because actual right winger racist nutjobs can appear to have more answers and debate points than the pro diversity people and running this failed multicultural social experiment will give them more support, not less. And there is support already there albeit "quiet" support. As I noted earlier the closing of the pregnancy passport loophole passed with much higher margins than all the progressive votes over the last 20 years. All votes BTW that I supported with my X on the ballot paper, right wing nazi that I am.

Wibbs

Tony EH wrote: »

The bolded part is the problem.

People need to stop looking at that disaster.

+1000 And again we have to stop looking to ex European colonies founded and fostered on colonisation by "new citizens". This is very different to a nation founded and fostered by natives over hundreds, even thousands of years. If I moved my pale arse to Botswana and got a passport after 20 years and said to a San "Hey I'm Botswanan!" I'd not be surprised to get a reply involving many clicks in his native tongue that roughly translated as "your face looks like a baboon's arse and your mother was a warthog".

biko

Wibbs wrote: »

I note you didn't address any of my points(not a shock), but could you answer this question?

I don't thin you'll ever get a straight answer to that question.

Similar scenario - an Irish person moves to Wuhan, marries a Wuhan woman and get a Chinese passport.
After 20 years there this person gives up their Irish citizenship.

Is this person Chinese or Irish?
Lefties heads melt.

Tombo2001

Wibbs wrote: »

Nice avoidance of my point.

A) Do you consider her Australian? BTW a state like the US founded on colonialism so becoming Australian was the option since the get go, rather than requiring a deeper native belonging to the place. Ask the Aborigine people about that...

Would you consider me Senegalese in my original question?

C) If the answer to B is yes, then how would you view me if I was living in Senegal for 18 years, maybe even getting a passport because I had a child there and ran courses and paraded through the Senegalese media accusing the nation and culture and people of being racists and not welcoming of my skin colour and cultural history? Oh I forgot, only Whites can be racists, though ask the Tutsi and Hutu about that angle, for the craic like.

This is the problem I have with this multicultural crap. The pros just unquestioningly accept it must be true, because they've been told it's true and have never actually questioned any of it to any great degree. Or it certainly seems that way because when asked for debate they have remarkably little to come back with and instead roll out the lazy right wing/racists/echochamber.

I'd approach it from a different point of view.

Your question is an either / or one - am I Senagelese or am Irish - I can only be one, or the other, not both.

As if we were looking at an animal, and its either a dog or a cat, it cant be both a dog or a cat.

As if people were defined first and foremost, and exclusively, by their ethnicity and where they grew up.

My view would be more community based. People live in communities first and foremost. You are talking about an Irish born person going to live in Africa for 20 years, do they stop being Irish - no you dont, absolutely not (and am talking generally, I dont know anything about you personally).

There are thousands of Irish that do live in Africa and have done so for many many years. Some of them have made enormous contributions to local life, like Brother Colm O'Connell in Kenya or John Robbie in South Africa. Do they stop being Irish? No. Is Africa their home? Yes. Are they part of a community there? Yes. Do they contribute to those communities? Yes. Are they of value to those communities? Yes. So in that context - almost, what is the point of this question - are you Irish or are you African, as if you can only be one or the other.

Or the guy above who is saying his brother lives in NYC since 1998. His brother is part of a community there, he is in sports clubs, his kids are in schools, he has a job, he has mates that he drinks with, he has inlaws. Imagine how he would feel if some ****er turned around to him and said "I'm not interested in your views on Trump/ local issues/ how the school should be run.....you're Irish, not American, your views don't count".

Have lived in Vietnam a decade. Haven't stepped foot in Ireland in a decade. I could stay here another 50 years and I'll never be Vietnamese. I could move to Australia and get a passport there like my brother and I'll never be Australian.

This stuff only goes in one direction for people who make the argument and it's when the host nation is predominantly white / Western.

gozunda

biko wrote: »

I don't thin you'll ever get a straight answer to that question.

Similar scenario - an Irish person moves to Wuhan, marries a Wuhan woman and get a Chinese passport.
After 20 years there this person gives up their Irish citizenship.

Is this person Chinese or Irish?
Lefties heads melt.

According to the business insider website - China is no. 8 on the list of the top 10 most difficult countries to get a citizenship

8. China

The Nationality Law of the People's Republic of China allows foreigners to try become naturalized citizens if they have relatives who are Chinese citizens, have settled in China, or "have other legitimate reasons."

If you don't have a relative who's a Chinese citizen and lives in China, your chances of becoming a Chinese citizen are slim. According to the CIA, while naturalization is possible, it is extremely difficult. Long-term residency is required but not specified

I reckon Ireland is a pushover by comparison...


See: https://www.businessinsider.com/8-of-the-countries-where-its-hardest-to-become-a-citizen-2018-9?r=US&IR=T#8-china-8

Acosta

Tombo2001 wrote: »

If you are denying this then you are denying the right of any first generation immigrant to be considered in any way Irish, even if have they have lived here for the majority of their lives.

I was away from boards for a long while, rejoined it last week.

The thing that really jumps out at me is how its become a platform for right wing, anti immigrant viewpoints.

Its popping up again and again and again, across multiple different threads but principally in this 'Current Affairs/IMHO' section.

One thing for sure, anyone that disagrees with you here will be quickly shot down by a gang of 'like minded' people.

A lot of it reads the same as they behave on twitter. There's a stench of the fash around here at the moment. Maybe because some have had their social media activities restricted on other platforms.

Tombo2001

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Ok, I see my posts are being deleted now by the mods so I will bow out. That is really pathetic and sad, systemically entrenched views, nobody allowed disagree.

Really sad.

Bit rich for someone who doesn't even share their views and instead just strolls in and insults others.

suicide_circus

Wibbs wrote: »

If I lived in Senegal for 20 years and got a Senegalese passport would you consider me Senegalese? If you say yes, pardon me if I wouldn't quite believe you.

No sorry Wibbs, that transformation spell only works the other way.

Tony EH

Re: nationalities...I suppose that it depends on which country one moves to.

Moving to somewhere like America or Australia, which have had a history of immigration since they killed off/isolated all the original inhabitants will give a person more leeway to announce their "new" nationality. Those countries are still very new. They're barely out of conceptual phase in the grand scheme of things, with most people living there being able to trace their lineage back one, two or three generations at best and all the while still clinging to images of the "old country".

However, moving to somewhere like Scotland, which has a much longer history with a native population that stems way back, and you'd find yourself hard pressed to declare that you are now suddenly Scottish, when none of your family have ever set foot in the place.

HBC08

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Ebun Joseph is a deranged racist, she’s almost the pendulum swing of Gemma, inventing racism and slamming white people to further her own career. She wouldnt dare go live in a black country again though

I have noticed the similarities aswell to Gemma.

Omackeral

Tombo2001 wrote: »

The most pathetic thing here is all the sycophants reinforcing one another's opinions, like a little cult.

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Lads- cant keep up with all the like minded people having a pop at me at the same time.....can ye slow down a bit.

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Ok, I see my posts are being deleted now by the mods so I will bow out. That is really pathetic and sad, systemically entrenched views, nobody allowed disagree.

Really sad.

Only one thing sad and pathetic and it’s your “return”. You’ve done nothing but moan, move the goal posts, take shots at wrong-thinkers and leave again in a hissy.

biko

biko wrote: »

I don't thin you'll ever get a straight answer to that question.

Similar scenario - an Irish person moves to Wuhan, marries a Wuhan woman and get a Chinese passport.
After 20 years there this person gives up their Irish citizenship.

Is this person Chinese or Irish?
Lefties heads melt.

Legally they'd be Chinese, but in reality, they would be treated at all levels (official/social) as being foreign. I know that's true since I have foreign friends who have done just that. Wife, kids, property, business in China, perfect Mandarin and local dialect, but still counted as foreigners. And just to clarify, China is rather insular about race... but the same thing happens if you gain Thai citizenship, and they've got a much longer history of foreigners settling in their country.

I'm more curious about the case where someone changes their citizenship to Irish, works here for a decade, saves a heap of money, and then returns to their birth country, and changes their citizenship again to their birth nationality... what are they then?

Better yet what happens with dual passports. Someone has a passport/citizenship for both countries, so are they Irish/other (a merging of the two) or just one of them?

I do wonder if people have ever really spent time abroad. The West is typically the most accepting of other nationalities in how they treat them when they settle, and integrate (not assimilate). I can't think of any other country or culture which is as accepting of other peoples... and yet, we're expected to believe that we're racist for behaving the same as other countries/nationalities.

I have never quite understood why we are expected to simply accept the double standard at play here. Although I suppose since westerners created the double standard, that makes us responsible for it. You won't find such expectations throughout Asia, Africa, etc except for how it applies to settling in a western nation.

Tombo2001

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Very good, another member of the wolfpack....ye are all the same, congregating on the same threads, making the same points over and over again.

the shelbourne hotel thread - tick
The diverse oscars thread - tick
the l'oreal thread - tick
the MGTOW thread - tick
the Adele cultural appropriation thread - tick

welcome to boards

Posters post in multiple threads and aren't schizophrenic. Shocker.

At least I make points, though. At least I have opinions and can argue them. All you're capable of is expressing disgust for other posters.