Shelbourne Hotel remove historic statues due to association with slavery - *Read OP**

gozunda

Acosta wrote: »

A lot of it reads the same as they behave on twitter. There's a stench of the fash around here at the moment. Maybe because some have had their social media activities restricted on other platforms.

What is "Fash'? Btw? Facist? Fashionable??

I think in context you are referring to the former...

So let me see - because you don't like / diasgree with some posters here - you are lumping them all together and projecting that they all share what you deem to be objectionable characteristics. Excuse me if I am confused but isn't that what racists do?

suicide_circus

As i've said before I have family born oversees, living here decades in some cases, they would never claim to be Irish and would honestly find the suggestion laughable. Same with my many friends and colleagues who have emigrated here - all proud of their countries of origin til the day they die.

Tombo2001

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Very good, another member of the wolfpack....ye are all the same, congregating on the same threads, making the same points over and over again.

the shelbourne hotel thread - tick
The diverse oscars thread - tick
the l'oreal thread - tick
the MGTOW thread - tick
the Adele cultural appropriation thread - tick

welcome to boards

I'm here too! Although, I'm only on two of the above threads.

You know, you could just argue against their points... rather than seeking to suggest some nefarious or negative attitude about the posters involved. If you're not managing to argue effectively against their opinions, then that's on you...

Wibbs

Tombo2001 wrote: »

I'd approach it from a different point of view.

Your question is an either / or one - am I Senagelese or am Irish - I can only be one, or the other, not both.

As if we were looking at an animal, and its either a dog or a cat, it cant be both a dog or a cat.

As if people were defined first and foremost, and exclusively, by their ethnicity and where they grew up.

My view would be more community based. People live in communities first and foremost. You are talking about an Irish born person going to live in Africa for 20 years, do they stop being Irish - no you dont, absolutely not (and am talking generally, I dont know anything about you personally).

There are thousands of Irish that do live in Africa and have done so for many many years. Some of them have made enormous contributions to local life, like Brother Colm O'Connell in Kenya or John Robbie in South Africa. Do they stop being Irish? No. Is Africa their home? Yes. Are they part of a community there? Yes. Do they contribute to those communities? Yes. Are they of value to those communities? Yes. So in that context - almost, what is the point of this question - are you Irish or are you African, as if you can only be one or the other.

Or the guy above who is saying his brother lives in NYC since 1998. His brother is part of a community there, he is in sports clubs, his kids are in schools, he has a job, he has mates that he drinks with, he has inlaws. Imagine how he would feel if some ****er turned around to him and said "I'm not interested in your views on Trump/ local issues/ how the school should be run.....you're Irish, not American, your views don't count".

Good God! :eek: Someone actually trying to engage. A welcome development.

I take many of your points T. I certainly take the value to the wider community aspect. However I don;t see what's the value to the wider native community of constantly ranting about the shortcomings in that native community like Joseph is prone to. Indeed it's her "killer app". And it's why I don't consider her Irish beyond the print on her passport. Ditto for any illegal economic migrants. Your examples of Robbie and O'Connell are none of that. Neither are the many thousands of non EU folks legally working in say the Irish health services.

Community brings its own issues too, because as we've seen in every single "multicultural" experiment in Europe, people tend to quite naturally coalesce together into communities of their fellows. The more different they are to the natives in looks and culture the more likely this is to happen. Ghettoisation is a given in multicultural societies and always has been with vanishingly few exceptions. This leads to societal fractures along race and cultural lines and more them V us. We've a tiny population of non native, non White people in this country and for the guts of 20 years and it's already started here.

Deleted User wrote: »

This stuff only goes in one direction for people who make the argument and it's when the host nation is predominantly white / Western.

+1000. You will never and I mean never hear any pro diversity person suggest that what a majority Black nation and culture requires to be better is more White immigrant faces. It is only White nations that are deemed in dire need of diversity and again of a particular kind. Other non native Whites don't count. Hell, even East Asians don't count. Well they tend to be conservative, family values types and in many cases can hold views considered well beyond the Pale to the so called progressive mind. The darker the skin gets the top trumps, Arab folks at a push, better if they're not Christian.

Acosta wrote: »

A lot of it reads the same as they behave on twitter. There's a stench of the fash around here at the moment. Maybe because some have had their social media activities restricted on other platforms.

And again with the cheap and lazy and simplistic and snide replies with precious little substance beyond insult. At least Tombo has engaged above. Maybe try that? Crazy notion mind you.

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Ok, I see my posts are being deleted now by the mods so I will bow out. That is really pathetic and sad, systemically entrenched views, nobody allowed disagree.

Really sad.

I'd be shocked if your posts were deleted T. Never mind the mods are far more likely to be on the more "progressive" side. Could be a Boards server error? I've had posts go into the ether a few times in the last few weeks.

Tombo2001

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm here too! Although, I'm only on two of the above threads.

You know, you could just argue against their points... rather than seeking to suggest some nefarious or negative attitude about the posters involved. If you're not managing to argue effectively against their opinions, then that's on you...

Ah, the sneeriest person in Ireland. Good to see you again.

I did make several points, but got tired of people just ignoring them (as well as seeing them disappear, apparently they couldnt possibly have been deleted).

Keyzer

Just listened to the Newstalk interview, wowsers.

Incoherent nonsense right from the start - black bodies outside a white, opulent hotel !!! An art historian says they are not slaves. Nope, they are slaves, they are enslaved bodies.

Strikes me as someone clutching at straws, can't admit they got it wrong and won't back down.

On a related note, I worked with a chap from Nigeria many moons ago, really nice guy who only ever sat with us "white folk" at lunch and break times.

There were a lot of other black people working in the same place who sat together in different groups. So I asked him one day (I meant absolutely no offence in my question, I was just curious, nor did he take offence to my question) why do you sit with us all the time and not spend time with other black people?

He laughed and then gave me his answer....

"We hate each other..."

Racism is not just a black/white issue...

Eric Cartman

Keyzer wrote: »

Just listened to the Newstalk interview, wowsers.

Incoherent nonsense right from the start - black bodies outside a white, opulent hotel !!! An art historian says they are not slaves. Nope, they are slaves, they are enslaved bodies.

Strikes me as someone clutching at straws, can't admit they got it wrong and won't back down.

On a related note, I worked with a chap from Nigeria many moons ago, really nice guy who only ever sat with us "white folk" at lunch and break times.

There were a lot of other black people working in the same place who sat together in different groups. So I asked him one day (I meant absolutely no offence in my question, I was just curious, nor did he take offence to my question) why do you sit with us all the time and not spend time with other black people?

He laughed and then gave me his answer....

"We hate each other..."

Racism is not just a black/white issue...

a lot of other people from Africa hate the Nigerians, they don't just cheat and scam white people.

Tombo2001

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Ah, the sneeriest person in Ireland. Good to see you again.

Err... me?

Sarcastic, sometimes overly aggressive, logical, unemotional, critical... sure. I get that, but sneeriest? That's a new one.

I did make several points, but got tired of people just ignoring them (as well as seeing them disappear, apparently they couldnt possibly have been deleted).

Ahh well, I have no idea how your posts would disappear, and no way to verify that they have.

As for posts being ignored... some people will respond to your posts, others won't. The same happens to me.

Wibbs responded to your last real contribution, and I felt that he'd said what I would have wanted to say. Little point repeating it, just to have my name on the page.

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

a lot of other people from Africa hate the Nigerians, they don't just cheat and scam white people.

It's not just Nigerians. Tribal culture. Historical hatreds. People hold close their hatreds and grudges... with stereotypes being very popular throughout the world. Many African nationalities will avoid each other or be overly aggressive, based on where they come from rather than dealing with the individual.

Tombo2001

Wibbs wrote: »

Good God! :eek: Someone actually trying to engage. A welcome development.

I take many of your points T. I certainly take the value to the wider community aspect. However I don;t see what's the value to the wider native community of constantly ranting about the shortcomings in that native community like Joseph is prone to. Indeed it's her "killer app". And it's why I don't consider her Irish beyond the print on her passport. Ditto for any illegal economic migrants. Your examples of Robbie and O'Connell are none of that. Neither are the many thousands of non EU folks legally working in say the Irish health services.

Community brings its own issues too, because as we've seen in every single "multicultural" experiment in Europe, people tend to quite naturally coalesce together into communities of their fellows. The more different they are to the natives in looks and culture the more likely this is to happen. Ghettoisation is a given in multicultural societies and always has been with vanishingly few exceptions. This leads to societal fractures along race and cultural lines and more them V us. We've a tiny population of non native, non White people in this country and for the guts of 20 years and it's already started here.

.

Thats fair enough, though you can hardly blame her for being entrenched given the entrenched views on display here. Your issue I suppose is the view that she is entrenched on.

The issue of illegal economic migration is a loaded one in the sense that this can only be one way, almost by definition there cant be economic migration from the rich country to the poor country, never mind illegally so. Only the other way around. As was the case for the 10 million odd who emigrated from Ireland between 1800 and 1990.

Take your point completely on ghettoisation, its the last thing anyone needs, there are enough case studies out there to show what a cluster**** it becomes in society, and the way direct provision is structured thats most definitely where we are heading.

Tombo2001

Deleted User wrote: »

Err... me?

Sarcastic, sometimes overly aggressive, logical, unemotional, critical... sure. I get that, but sneeriest? That's a new one.



Ahh well, I have no idea how your posts would disappear, and no way to verify that they have.

As for posts being ignored... some people will respond to your posts, others won't. The same happens to me.

Wibbs responded to your last real contribution, and I felt that he'd said what I would have wanted to say. Little point repeating it, just to have my name on the page.

Thats true, to be fair to Wibbs, he engages in debate. You just sneer.

Tombo2001

Omackeral wrote: »

Only one thing sad and pathetic and it’s your “return”. You’ve done nothing but moan, move the goal posts, take shots at wrong-thinkers and leave again in a hissy.

Very good, another one of the wolfpack.

suicide_circus

Very hard to achieve ghettoisation if asylum requests are resolved in a timely manner ie a final yes or no in 3 months.

Eric Cartman

suicide_circus wrote: »

Very hard to achieve ghettoisation if asylum requests are resolved in a timely manner ie a final yes or no in 3 months.

very hard to achieve ghettoisation if we only let in skilled workers who integrate well and can support themselves outside of needing welfare/government housing.

Tombo2001

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Thats true, to be fair to Wibbs, he engages in debate. You just sneer.

Err.. I have engaged with your contributions before with very mixed results. You do have a habit (as we're seeing now) of making negative comments about the posters themselves, ie that I sneer.

If you want people to take you seriously, and to treat you with respect, you should consider dropping the desire to judge others in this manner. If you really paid attention to my posts, you would notice that I only "sneer" (although I don't think that's the right description) at posters who are throwing around judgement such as racist, or other labels...

Stop with the nasty comments/statements, and I'll treat you exactly the same as I tread Wibbs or Eric Cartman.

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Thats fair enough, though you can hardly blame her for being entrenched given the entrenched views on display here. Your issue I suppose is the view that she is entrenched on.

It's a bulletin board where people repeatedly post to the same kind of threads. Their opinions are going to become established over time, although it is possible for them to change when they encounter someone with excellent arguing ability. That's the point.

In any case, Boards doesn't come close to representing Irish society... so her entrenched views wouldn't be due to any common beliefs here. The internet tends to encourage much stronger views than would be present in real society.

But... I'll stop this little tit-for-tat comments between us, because it's not leading anywhere.

Omackeral

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Very good, another one of the wolfpack.

Is this the racist wolfpack you're speaking about? Let's investigate

Here's some of my racist offerings over the years;

Omackeral wrote: »

I’m Irish. White. Working class.

I fully reject the attitudes of racist people here. “All the Blacks are always....”. If someone starts a platitude like that, I’m already switching off. You can accept it if you want to. I don’t accept it here.

Omackeral wrote: »

Look, I'm fairly middle of the road when it comes to social issues. I fcuking DESPISE racists and bigots. If anyone uttered the word n*gger viscously near me, I'd remove myself from their company.

Omackeral wrote: »

I don't make excuses for racism at all. Racism is vile and racists are vile.

Omackeral wrote: »

I just don't like racist terms. Do you think it's grand to use words like that?

Some alt-right scrote amn't I?

I'm far from racist. I'm not part of some hive mind or conservative congregation. In fact, go ahead and post one racist quote I've ever posted on this site. You won't be able to . Because I never have, never will. It's easy for you to just claim someone is something but go on and back it up!? Or have you got the fortitude to say maybe I've gotten this one wrong about you and perhaps you and I have a clash of styles. Wouldn't hold my breath but you may suprise me.


It's you and your ilk that's the problem here. YOU. Bury your head and cry racism at any given opportunity, even at time where there's none to call out. You and your ilk have lessened the power of that word. Congratulations on that. Normal people now just roll their eyes when that accusation is leveled at them, which is a shame because there are still racists and racism out there but it's you and yours that are given them freer reign. The irony is staggering. Again, well done. Bravo. You're a modern day hero.

Omackeral

Seems it's easier to just call someone a name or put them in a pigeon-hole rather than scratch beneath the surface or maybe listen to the shades of grey in their debates.

Tokyo

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Ok, I see my posts are being deleted now by the mods so I will bow out. That is really pathetic and sad, systemically entrenched views, nobody allowed disagree.

Really sad.

Mod: For what it's worth, the logs show that the only posts of yours that were deleted in this thread were deleted by you personally. So I'm not sure what game you're playing here.

suicide_circus

^^^ that's some 4D chess right there!

Tombo2001

mike_ie wrote: »

Mod: For what it's worth, the logs show that the only posts of yours that were deleted in this thread were deleted by you personally. So I'm not sure what game you're playing here.

I did delete some of my own posts, but at least one disappeared.

You tell me.

You incidentally are the same mod who deleted a bunch of my posts on the Aoibhinn O Suillebhain thread.

Anyway, the lads all like your post so lets push on.

Omackeral

Tombo2001 wrote: »

I did delete some of my own posts, but at least one disappeared.

You tell me.

You incidentally are the same mod who deleted a bunch of my posts on the Aoibhinn O Suillebhain thread.

Anyway, the lads all like your post so lets push on.

Is this your go to? The so-called wolfpack. Jesus what a victim complex.

Complete trainwreck of a poster.

gozunda

Deleted User wrote: »

Complete trainwreck of a poster.

Looks like that type of hit and run stuff is now fairly common in CA / IMHO. I previously brought it up in CA feedback. Still happening unfortunately

Tokyo

Tombo2001 wrote: »

I did delete some of my own posts, but at least one disappeared.

You tell me.

You incidentally are the same mod who deleted a bunch of my posts on the Aoibhinn O Suillebhain thread.

Anyway, the lads all like your post so lets push on.

Mod: Seeing as you want to make an issue of this, despite being informed otherwise, take it to the Help Desk. Don't post in this thread again.

TomTomTim

A truly horrible woman.

https://twitter.com/EbunJoseph1/status/1309395686765494272?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1309395686765494272%7Ctwgr%5Eshare_3&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fs9e.github.io%2Fiframe%2F2%2Ftwitter.min.html1309395686765494272

jmlad2020

The world is going mad. Next they will legalize gay marriage

gozunda

TomTomTim wrote: »

A truly horrible woman.

https://twitter.com/EbunJoseph1/status/1309395686765494272?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1309395686765494272%7Ctwgr%5Eshare_3&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fs9e.github.io%2Fiframe%2F2%2Ftwitter.min.html1309395686765494272

Little more than toxic **** stirring. Remind me again why this person is employed by UCD? Can't help feel sorry for the undergraduates who have to nod their heads in silence in order to get a pass on rants like that? The university has lost all credability imo.

That said - I guess she's right on one thing - she is "wrong". The statues do not depict 'enslaved' anything.

storker

Deleted User wrote: »

Have lived in Vietnam a decade. Haven't stepped foot in Ireland in a decade. I could stay here another 50 years and I'll never be Vietnamese.

You could have moved to Wicklow Town and experienced something similar.

BailMeOut

I am predicing that one of the statues will be soon stolen. They have been there for 150 years and were narely noticed and just ignored and taken for granted by most people. Now with their notoriety people will definitely want to check them out and will now be viewed more carefully and finally appreciated. Eventually and unfortunately however someone will want and take one as they are clearly very valuable and beautiful and wonder should they create casts while down so replicates can be made if needed?

Omackeral

BailMeOut wrote: »

I am predicing that one of the statues will be soon stolen.

Cowardly hit 'n' run paint attack would be more on point I feel.