Shelbourne Hotel remove historic statues due to association with slavery - *Read OP**

mikemac2

Better remove the statue of that Welsh slave at the bottom of Croagh Patrick

Junkyard Tom

conorhal wrote: »

These BLM nutters and those that pander to them are no different to the Taliban

This is utterly insane, they're glorified ornaments that will probably end up in a museum or some multi-millionaire's collection, the Taliban are suicide bombers who shoot children in the head for going to school.

MilitaryRoad

MilitaryRoad wrote: »

If we were to apply the same logic

Let's be realistic about the people we're dealing with here.

LillySV

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

This is utterly insane, they're glorified ornaments that will probably end up in a museum or some multi-millionaire's collection, the Taliban are suicide bombers who shoot children in the head for going to school.

The taliban are the only other group going around destroying buildings/items.... including many buildings before the time of Christ!!! Wiping out world history!!! Stuff that lasted thousands of years but now we have a new type of entitled person who can wipe out all traces of the past!! Never seen so evidently in world History previously ...ensuring people in hundreds and thousands of years time will Have a skewed view of the past

Well the crazies and do gooders have won again . World has gone mad.

ohnonotgmail

MilitaryRoad wrote: »

If we were to apply the same logic that had these four statues taken down and removed, every single portrait of a baron or a lord up in Dublin Castle would have to be taken down, not on the basis of a difference of colour but on the basis of a difference of nationality which is the exact same thing. The British colonial system was never standing behind the door when it came to standing on the necks of Irish people before Michael Collins got them out of here.


Look back to the famine times, subsequent to that the agrarian injustices across rural Ireland where Catholics were not allowed to own land, only Protestant men were allowed to own land and the Catholics would be evicted if they couldn't pay rent, which led to the creation of the Irish Land League, and of Captain Boycott, and the rest of it. This is all part of our history but we're obsessing over four statues that have stood there for 150 years without offending anyone apart from one woman who appears to be an RTE "black studies" lovvie who is suddenly taking offence at these statutes.


Should we take down the statute of Countess Markievicz up in Stephens Green while we are at it? I'm sure she shot a few Brits dead back in her day. That famine memorial down at the docks, basically a shine to impoverished Irish famine victims who were so starving they were well beneath the rank of a slave, at least a slave got fed, should we remove those too?


Honestly we need to start calling out this absolute and utter nonsense.

you are absolutely right. we should start with the contents of your post which is ineffable ****e.

nthclare

LillySV wrote: »

The taliban are the only other group going around destroying buildings/items.... including many buildings before the time of Christ!!! Wiping out world history!!! Stuff that lasted thousands of years but now we have a new type of entitled person who can wipe out all traces of the past!! Never seen so evidently in world History previously ...ensuring people in hundreds and thousands of years time will Have a skewed view of the past

It's absolutely flabbergasting to be honest.

You'll have to remember that a lot of these people are not normal or intelligent.
They're quite uninteresting and from looking at them in action on YouTube clips they're all ugly, malnourished, pasty, unhealthy and just weirdos.

It's like they come out in numbers, imagine people are like skittles, and you've a shiny bag of skittles.
They look nice, polished and shiny.

Now these loons look like they came out of a crushed bag of skittles and basically they're crusty, bitter, crumbly and just god dam awful.

You see the SJWs on YouTube and they're very unattractive people, both on the outside and inside.

You can see the dead in their eye's, and the bang of addiction off them.

You don't have to look a certain way to be attractive, whether you're toned, slim or overweight male,female,brown white or black once you have light in your eyes and a good heart you're a beautiful person.

But these people who want to destroy everything are ugly creepy and probably empty shells.

They wouldn't be missed that's for sure and I'm worried about the fact the far right aren't even warmed up yet to counter protest these far lefties.

If you want to see real carnage and horror, and let the anger present itself we've seen nothing yet.

Imagine a load of real fashists taking on the Antifa SJWs in a turf war.
Let's just say Romper Stomper would be like Sesame Street compared to what damage would be done.

I don't condone violence but eventually if you poke a monster long enough he'll get loose and God help whomever in its wake.

Tipperary animal lover

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Well the crazies and do gooders have won again . World has gone mad.

"DR" ebon joesph is on the case, you can't have a debate with her, she's always right and your always a racist, down the rabbit hole we go, what else can be striped of the auld irish ways, buildings, life, I suppose it's multiculturalism at its best, the paddy's days are up welcome to the life of the plastic paddy

RandomName2

MilitaryRoad wrote: »

If we were to apply the same logic that had these four statues taken down and removed, every single portrait of a baron or a lord up in Dublin Castle would have to be taken down, not on the basis of a difference of colour but on the basis of a difference of nationality which is the exact same thing. The British colonial system was never standing behind the door when it came to standing on the necks of Irish people before Michael Collins got them out of here.

To be fair I think some people justified pulling down the Georgian buildings or estates in Dublin, at the time, on the basis that they were antiques of oppression. Thankfully though a lot was saved by people who valued the buildings we had in our possession.

I don't think even the cheekiest iconoclast suggested that the Viking sites shouldn't be preserved due to the legacy of Viking oppression though.

LillySV wrote: »

The taliban are the only other group going around destroying buildings/items.... including many buildings before the time of Christ!!! Wiping out world history!!! Stuff that lasted thousands of years but now we have a new type of entitled person who can wipe out all traces of the past!! Never seen so evidently in world History previously ...ensuring people in hundreds and thousands of years time will Have a skewed view of the past

Iconoclasm in the West is predominantly done by those with a political rather than religious bent, unlike the Taliban. We've seen nationalists, nationalist-socialists, and communists destroy art and architecture if it didn't fit their ethos. Fascism had a whole thing about 'degenerate art'.

Anybody calling for art to be destroyed or removed in Ireland would almost certainly be doing it with either a political or monetary motive. I don't think your analogy fits.

Just as an aside the Taliban haven't been doing that for a while (they ran out of art to blow up). ISIL was a far more recent example of 'blow up the art of the apostates and pagans'

With atheism, religion has been replaced with political correctness for these people. Look at how virtuous they try to be. How they turn on everyone and each other if they aren't maintaining the tenets of their belief. You're not allowed to diverge whatsoever on topics like abortion, transgenderism, masks, gay marriage, and now statues, or you get cancelled and treated like an apostate. Posters in this thread who have never even noticed the statues support their removal because that is part of the group they identify with. If you meet one of these people, you know their stance on every one of these social issues without needing to ask.

It will never go away. Too many people need an external moral compass and they need to feel pure and right in the same way religion has made people feel for millenia.

Kivaro

nthclare wrote: »

You'll have to remember that a lot of these people are not normal or intelligent.
They're quite uninteresting and from looking at them in action on YouTube clips they're all ugly, malnourished, pasty, unhealthy and just weirdos.


You see the SJWs on YouTube and they're very unattractive people, both on the outside and inside.

You can see the dead in their eye's, and the bang of addiction off them.

Good post. A perfect example of above is the Portland rioters ...... attacking the Federal Courthouse. After seeing and hearing numerous interviews of this group, it was bewildering to watch them trying to justify their attack on an entity that could be their last bastion for justice when local and State authorities failed to protect them. The lack of intelligence and basic ability to clearly define their views was startling. A great number of them did look strange (physically), and while that definitely does not define the person; that combination with their lack of ability to come across with some semblance of intelligence would make one wonder how representative this group is.

When the 5,000 Irish BLM crowd broke the lock-down restrictions in order to march in Dublin, I saw some similarities with the Portland crowd e.g. the inability to adequately explain the need to put the whole country at risk during a worldwide deadly pandemic.

I would hazard a guess that another similarity of the Irish BLM crowd and the Portland group would be the lack of employment. Even prior to Covid, it would be difficult to imagine that these people are employable. I would recommend employment or being a carer or contributing to society in other ways in order to provide them with a real purpose in life.

Hamsterchops

Put them away for safe keeping I say, until all this frenzied bandwagon madness has died down in a year or two . . . .

Then have them quietly put back up at night and carry on as before. Lovely ornaments not doing any harm to anyone.

Imaging Reeling in the years in twenty years time, when we & our kids will be amused, saddened and amazed at this crazy year.

NasserShammaz

Apparently the Nubian community in Ireland were up in arms about it.

Tony EH

thebaz wrote: »

as a Supporter of Black Lives Matter - I think this FAKE virtue signalling by the Shelbournbe hotel and the Marriot hotel group trying to be so hip and woke - when in reality they only care for bottom line profit and feeding and caring for the Super rich - The Marriot hotel group Marketing team planned this so the gullible public will think how great they are - well I'm not fooled.

Exactly.

The number of fucks given by anyone about these statues was approx. zero.

hotmail.com

American culture rubbish coming into Ireland thick and fast.

nthclare

Kivaro wrote: »

Good post. A perfect example of above is the Portland rioters ...... attacking the Federal Courthouse. After seeing and hearing numerous interviews of this group, it was bewildering to watch them trying to justify their attack on an entity that could be their last bastion for justice when local and State authorities failed to protect them. The lack of intelligence and basic ability to clearly define their views was startling. A great number of them did look strange (physically), and while that definitely does not define the person; that combination with their lack of ability to come across with some semblance of intelligence would make one wonder how representative this group is.

When the 5,000 Irish BLM crowd broke the lock-down restrictions in order to march in Dublin, I saw some similarities with the Portland crowd e.g. the inability to adequately explain the need to put the whole country at risk during a worldwide deadly pandemic.

I would hazard a guess that another similarity of the Irish BLM crowd and the Portland group would be the lack of employment. Even prior to Covid, it would be difficult to imagine that these people are employable. I would recommend employment or being a carer or contributing to society in other ways in order to provide them with a real purpose in life.

There's a lot of these types l
know from East Clare, they're blow in's and you'd describe then as new age travellers or crusties.

In hindsight they're ok, mannerly when you'd meet them.
A colourful lot.

But dare you deabate about social issues etc you're cancelled.
They'll gang up on you.

Usually old money misfits and wasters.
Not working, holidays in India, driving bangers but if they need 600 euro for a clutch you can guarantee daddy or mummy will transfer the cash into their accounts within hours.

Talking about virtue signaling, the plot thickens...

if you think about it, back in the day not the English crusties I'm taking about but their Irish counterparts....

Long ago they would have been the priest or nun in the family.

Look at them the next time you see them, picture them dressed as nuns or priest's.

SJWs and the clergy are very similar.

Tony EH

statesaver wrote: »

It's American owned so that's the reason. Bringing their stupid cancel culture over here.

All the more reason to object to this.

This Marriott crowd are destroying a piece of Dublin history that has been standing for over 150 years...before they were even in the hotel business.

They are merely custodians of this building and their act of vandalism just to jump on a bandwagon should be rejected wholeheartedly by Irish people.

Jimbob1977

Imagine Indiana Jones being made in 2020.

Evil meglomaniac:

"I'm sorry Dr. Jones. You're too late. The Ark of the Covenant has been removed. It was problematic for atheists and the Palestinians. I shall enjoy watching you doxxed"

conorhal

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

This is utterly insane, they're glorified ornaments that will probably end up in a museum or some multi-millionaire's collection, the Taliban are suicide bombers who shoot children in the head for going to school.

Is it really?


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53224445


BLM shooting kids in the head is a thing you know.
This group is cut from the same cloth, the have a religious fervor that's determined to demolish anyting that offends their rancid, emotionally incontinent supremist ideology.

conorhal

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

Imagine Indiana Jones being made in 2020.

Evil meglomaniac:

"I'm sorry Dr. Jones. You're too late. The Ark of the Covenant has been removed. It was problematic for atheists and the Palestinians. I shall enjoy watching you doxxed"

Not to mention those 'problematic' pictures that surfaced of him allegedly wearing a Nazi uniform....





CANCELLED!!!!!!!

nthclare

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

Imagine Indiana Jones being made in 2020.

Evil meglomaniac:

"I'm sorry Dr. Jones. You're too late. The Ark of the Covenant has been removed. It was problematic for atheists and the Palestinians. I shall enjoy watching you doxxed"

lol you rebel, the Atheism and Agnoticism forum would have you banned for a week if you suggested that

But yes a lot of those folk are similar to the SJWs and odd ball's.

They'ed be giving out about the church holding sway and indoctrination of kid's in Catholic run schools etc imagine that it's 2020 most teacher's are open minded these days and go through the motions.

FFS I was in primary school in 1980 until 88 and our teachers weren't strident cathecism bashers.

Yeah there's a bang of victimhood from some Atheists too.

Michael Nugent always gives me a chuckle, he gets very cross about the church and schools.

Yellow_Fern

Quite shocking to see the amount of people on Twitter who really belief that that these caryatids depicting ancient African princesses and their slaves is harmful to black people in Ireland.
https://twitter.com/i_Gleeson/status/1288422124613509120

nullzero

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

Quite shocking to see the amount of people on Twitter who really belief that that these caryatids depicting ancient African princesses and their slaves is harmful to black people in Ireland.
https://twitter.com/i_Gleeson/status/1288422124613509120

That person seems like an rational individual with well thought out opinions. Love the use of "muh", very entertaining.

Had a look through his twitter, heres one relevant tweet; "if you don't think racism is a problem in the UK & Ireland, read the comments under this. this woman is as Irish as they come but to them it's 'our country and if you're not happy with our racism, go back to where your parents came from, which we probably colonised at some point"

I forgot that Ireland colonised Africa, must have missed that.

This individual is also on youtube tasting foods in those god awful "Irish people try (insert food or drink name) videos. Plenty of SJW nonsense spouted by him there as well.

Tony EH

goose2005 wrote: »

Most likely it was a mixture of free labourers (the skilled stonemasons, planners and architects) and slaves (doing the lifting and carrying and gruntwork) - the latter would not be mentioned in historical records much

Exactly.

I'm certainly no expert on ancient Egyptian history, it's a bit before my historical interest point. But I do find it very difficult, very difficult indeed, to buy that there were no slaves involved in the building of the pyramids, given the fact that Egypt regularly used slaves in every day life, like all empires of the time and after.

The reasoning for this belief is very tenuous as well. So, they found some graves of skilled labourers, who were well fed. So what? That doesn't mean that there weren't any slaves doing the heavy lifting and the donkey work.

There's probably no doubt that the passover myth of Jewish slaves and the further Hollywood myth making involving Jews hasn't much basis in fact and slaves or any kind probably weren't involved in the design, or the skilled stone masonry, for sure. But there were thousands and thousands involved in the work to construct the pyramids and other Egyptian structures. Are we really to believe that there were no slaves used at all?

The Nal

Tony EH wrote: »

Are we really to believe that there were no slaves used at all?

Slaves of some sort or another have been used to build most big projects in human history. From the Pyramids to the US railroads to the Nepalese who are currently building the stadiums for the 2022 World Cup in Qatar.

joe40

Tony EH wrote: »

Exactly.

The number of fucks given by anyone about these statues was approx. zero.

Exactly, a lot of people here getting their making a big fuss over this with their ever increasing outlandish predictions of what next.

There was zero agitation from the public to remove these statues, it was solely the decision of the American hotel owners. A bad decision in my view but not the Armageddon some are suggesting.

I particularly like how some say debate is impossible while they themselves are absolutely entrenched in their own position.

Tony EH

^
It's a ridiculous PR move by an American company who thinks that they can import their bullshit over here and do what they please.

I hope that the find out that they can't and the statues are reinstated.

conorhal

Tony EH wrote: »

Exactly.

I'm certainly no expert on ancient Egyptian history, it's a bit before my historical interest point. But I do find it very difficult, very difficult indeed, to buy that there were no slaves involved in the building of the pyramids, given the fact that Egypt regularly used slaves in every day life, like all empires of the time and after.

The reasoning for this belief is very tenuous as well. So, they found some graves of skilled labourers, who were well fed. So what? That doesn't mean that there weren't any slaves doing the heavy lifting and the donkey work.

There's probably no doubt that the passover myth of Jewish slaves and the further Hollywood myth making involving Jews hasn't much basis in fact and slaves or any kind probably weren't involved in the design, or the skilled stone masonry, for sure. But there were thousands and thousands involved in the work to construct the pyramids and other Egyptian structures. Are we really to believe that there were no slaves used at all?

Of course it's the case. Slaves were an integral part of the supply chain of every aspect of the lives of people in ancient Egypt, you could say the same about the Nikes and iPhones of these wittless protestors also, but they seem less interested in challenging the modern slavery that makes their own modern lives so comfortable.
I doubt any of these loosers have the slightest interest in statues, this isn't about ancient representations of slavery, it's about demoralizing the population into accepting their authoritarian demands and erasing culture. It's about their absolute control and ability to force people into decisions that they know are wrong.

TheValeyard

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

Quite shocking to see the amount of people on Twitter who really belief that that these caryatids depicting ancient African princesses and their slaves is harmful to black people in Ireland.
https://twitter.com/i_Gleeson/status/1288422124613509120

I hope Niall Gleeson never visits Rome if those statues offend him so much!

Yellow_Fern

joe40 wrote: »

Exactly, a lot of people here getting their making a big fuss over this with their ever increasing outlandish predictions of what next.

There was zero agitation from the public to remove these statues, it was solely the decision of the American hotel owners. A bad decision in my view but not the Armageddon some are suggesting.

I particularly like how some say debate is impossible while they themselves are absolutely entrenched in their own position.

I adore period buildings (I report examples of authorised developments when I spot them) and the statues themselves ar a significant loss. However what really bugs me is the notion that very bricks and mortar of Dublin are imbued with historical racism and slave trade and need to fixed. It bugs me that a UCD academic said on our national TV (referring to the statues) that mistreated women can't possible be art and slaves can't be a part of art.