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Social welfare raids

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2

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    #32
    Limpy
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 1,105 ✭✭✭Limpy


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    They can arrest you on “suspicion” and don't need to expand on that reason until at the station. Reality is those in airpots wont want to be arrested and miss there holidays...

    Do you think a guard chancing his arm will arrest a family going in holidays. Not a hope.


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    #33
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users Posts: 82,413 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Not the family, probably pick one of the parents, the risk is enough in most cases for those to cooperate.

    I certainly wouldn't cooperate whatsoever if I was arrested for no reason.


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    #34
    ChelseaRentBoy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 474 ✭✭ChelseaRentBoy


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    They can arrest you on “ suspicion “ and don't need to expand on that reason until at the station. Reality is those in airpots wont want to be arrested and miss there holidays...

    Just get the next flight. They can't arrest everyone.

    They can deal with my lawyer when i'm gone.


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    #35
    StackSteevens
    Closed Accounts Posts: 873 ✭✭✭StackSteevens


    ChelseaRentBoy wrote: »
    And has a citizen you have the right to not cooperate with them. Just tell them you aren't engaging with them and let them arrest you if they see fit. They won't because they haven't a leg to stand on legally.

    Wrong.

    But I strongly urge you and all those who have liked your posts to do it!


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    #36
    StackSteevens
    Closed Accounts Posts: 873 ✭✭✭StackSteevens


    ChelseaRentBoy wrote: »
    Just get the next flight. They can't arrest everyone.

    They can deal with my lawyer when i'm gone.

    What barrack room will they find him in?


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    #37
    xhomelezz
    Registered Users Posts: 3,035 ✭✭✭xhomelezz


    Limpy wrote: »
    People stand up for the rights of ordinary people. That I am proud of.

    What rights? Rights to ride the system?


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    #38
    gral6
    Registered Users Posts: 713 ✭✭✭gral6


    xhomelezz wrote: »
    What rights? Rights to ride the system?

    System is just using people. Therefore, people should ride the system


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    #39
    xhomelezz
    Registered Users Posts: 3,035 ✭✭✭xhomelezz


    gral6 wrote: »
    System is just using people. Therefore, people should ride the system

    Ok we might just get rid of the system so. Like that there will be no system to use people, and people won't be able to ride the system. Win win situation..:D


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    #40
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    The govt would be as well now to say, August 10 pubs are back open. That’s more or less everything re-opened. PUP is no more. If you lost your job your on the €203 dole and any rules associated with that.


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    #41
    Jim Root
    Registered Users Posts: 487 ✭✭Jim Root


    Limpy wrote: »
    Tell them the wife has it and she's in the toilet. Keep them hanging like fools. Also don't sit on the departures gate going to a red country, they will be checking these. Sit for instance near a gate going to a green list country till the last min. Again if you get stopped say the wife has them or vise versa.

    Watertight advice. Lol.


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    #42
    Herb Powell
    Registered Users Posts: 3,097 ✭✭✭Herb Powell


    Insidious wrote: »
    Maybe I'm wrong but you don't get these payments from the tax paying workers to sit on a beach sipping beer in a foreign country... You get them to help tide you over while you find work... You can't find work if you're not here or if you are in quarantine for two weeks after you come home.
    People who have nothing to hide shouldn't mind getting asked a few questions by officials at the airport..
    They are just part of a system that's trying to keep covid numbers low and prevent unnecessary travel bringing on a 2nd lockdown...

    People on the PUP were "tax paying workers" until the government forced their industries to close (not without good reason).

    Their jobs are on hold. Their industries are paused. They can't all find work in different industries temporarily.

    I say this as a taxpayer who has been working throughout.


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    #43
    Limpy
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 1,105 ✭✭✭Limpy


    xhomelezz wrote: »
    What rights? Rights to ride the system?

    Pay your taxes and your entitled to do as you Wish once its within the law. You live your own life in the safety of a basement if you so wish.


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    #44
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    bobmalooka wrote: »
    Does anyone know what would be considered reasonable grounds for believing that there has been a contravention of the act?

    I suspect the standard for 'reasonable grounds' would be slightly higher than 'they were at the airport'.


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    #45
    ShineOn7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,550 ✭✭✭ShineOn7


    Are they still doing this at the airports despite the massive amount of negative coverage it's got?

    And just how long do they think they can camp out in Dublin airport? Till September? October? It sounds like a hugely expensive exercise

    Sensible EU countries right now: "let's protect our people"

    Irish "government" right now: "let's claw as much money out of our people as possible"


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    #46
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    ShineOn7 wrote: »

    Irish "government" right now: "let's claw as much money out of our people as possible"

    I reckon it's more a question of "how do we discourage foreign travel without new legislation"


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    #47
    xhomelezz
    Registered Users Posts: 3,035 ✭✭✭xhomelezz


    Limpy wrote: »
    Pay your taxes and your entitled to do as you Wish once its within the law. You live your own life in the safety of a basement if you so wish.

    Or don't pay taxes, get the state freebies and do as you wish.


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    #48
    Dempo1
    Registered Users Posts: 26,977 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    God not another thread dealing with this but here goes.

    No is the actual answer re Gardai or SW inspectors questioning you or asking for passport in airports. They have to have "reasonable grounds' so the next question, how would they have reasonable grounds, unless of course they've accessed information the DAA has denied ever giving, namely flight manifests etc.

    The government have gotten into quite a spin on this and whilst not proven "yet", they've back tracked and will allow PUP recepients travel.

    FLAC have raised serious legal concerns and the Data protection commissioner is now involved. With regard to the 2012 legislation, I suspect that's going to be at the very least challenged.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




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    #49
    Smoothrider
    Registered Users Posts: 23 ✭Smoothrider


    That's not true actually. The gardai do not have a general power to stop and question people at random. They have specific powers under the Road Traffic Acts and or if you're involved in public order offences or are otherwise under real suspicion of being involved in the commission of an arrestable offence, but there is no blanket power to stop and question any member of the public as they go about their lawful business.


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    #50
    Smoothrider
    Registered Users Posts: 23 ✭Smoothrider


    The government do not have a leg to stand on in respect of this point and it's frankly embarrassing to hear Martin and Humphreys try to misrepresent the powers of Social Welfare Inspectors. They simply do not have these type of general powers over groups of people waiting to get on a plane. End of story. There's no ambiguity on this issue at all.


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    #51
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    ShineOn7 wrote: »
    Are they still doing this at the airports despite the massive amount of negative coverage it's got?

    And just how long do they think they can camp out in Dublin airport? Till September? October? It sounds like a hugely expensive exercise

    Sensible EU countries right now: "let's protect our people"

    Irish "government" right now: "let's claw as much money out of our people as possible"

    Of the 2500 people who’s PUP was stopped, only 85 were not leaving Ireland permanently. But you continue there with your little rant. Hopefully no service you need is pulled due to lack of budget.


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    #52
    Dempo1
    Registered Users Posts: 26,977 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Smoothrider wrote: »
    That's not true actually. The gardai do not have a general power to stop and question people at random. They have specific powers under the Road Traffic Acts and or if you're involved in public order offences or are otherwise under real suspicion of being involved in the commission of an arrestable offence, but there is no blanket power to stop and question any member of the public as they go about their lawful business.

    100% correct and I suspect Garda HQ is regretting the day they ever involved any of their staff to SW, heads are about to role on this and both the data protection commissioner and FLAC saying they are not satisfied the actions taken we're legal, also spare a thought for the lady who booked a ferry and didn't actually take the trip, her payments stopped, were did her info come from? And finally the couple who's children's allowance was stopped, clearly SW and the Gardai could not stop SW payments as they were not claiming any, an absolute disgrace. Before the foreigner bashers start, wife naturalised Irish citizen, hubby and children Irish citizens, they were going to a green list country on a F€&KING Holiday.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




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    #53
    Oranage2
    Registered Users Posts: 11,128 ✭✭✭✭Oranage2


    Seems wrong but also seems right.

    2400+ people were caught leaving the country and didn't announce therefore claiming a payment they weren't entitled too.

    How they got this information seems so dodgy. Social welfare can work with other organizations to gather information but the manner in which the information was got seems to be unlawful.


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    #54
    gral6
    Registered Users Posts: 713 ✭✭✭gral6


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Of the 2500 people who’s PUP was stopped, only 85 were not leaving Ireland permanently. But you continue there with your little rant. Hopefully no service you need is pulled due to lack of budget.

    I am not buying this bul**** that only 85 people were coming back to Ireland. What a ****ing joke new government are !


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    #55
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Of the 2500 people who’s PUP was stopped, only 85 were not leaving Ireland permanently. But you continue there with your little rant. Hopefully no service you need is pulled due to lack of budget.

    Even if that were the case, are you suggesting the law can be ignored depending on the results?

    Can AGS/SW decide unilaterally which laws they can ignore?

    Do we need the legislature if state bodies get to decide for themselves that legislation can be disregarded?


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    #56
    shindig-jp
    Registered Users Posts: 386 ✭✭shindig-jp


    If you have come through immigration and have not been stoped at the point of entry by immigration officials and are allowed to pass unhindered at that point, the bearer of said Irish PassPort can pass freely . Should you be met by officials who are screening and asking you questions on Land side, you can request a solicitor to be present during questioning


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    #57
    titan18
    Registered Users Posts: 11,975 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    Graham wrote:
    Even if that were the case, are you suggesting the law can be ignored depending on the results?


    If it's resulting in catching in a lot of people trying to commit fraud, then yes. If causing a small inconvenience to some people will result in us stopping welfare fraud, its fine imo. Should be legal to do these checks and share information if it's not legal now


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    #58
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    titan18 wrote: »
    If it's resulting in catching in a lot of people trying to commit fraud, then yes. If causing a small inconvenience to some people will result in us stopping welfare fraud, its fine imo. Should be legal to do these checks and share information if it's not legal now

    We have elected representatives to make laws. If the laws need changing, there's a process in place to support that.

    I don't think it's a particularly good idea to start suggesting the civil service can decide which laws they can ignore.


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    #59
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,177 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    gral6 wrote: »
    Do you have to show your passport to social welfare lads accompanied by Garda in Dublin airport?
    Do you have a legal right to refuse?
    Lol they stopped a barrister recently now he is taking legal action.

    The word from the airport is they don't know these people etc ..have not given permission for this to happen.

    Its very dubious legally.

    The thing is its unworkable. They can't check everyone and they are not ...and certainly not at 3 o'clock in the morning.


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    #60
    Funkfield
    Registered Users Posts: 1,602 ✭✭✭Funkfield


    https://www.gov.ie/en/organisation-information/534503-privacy-statement/#section-9-sharing-personal-data

    This thread is full of chancers


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    #61
    JustAThought
    Registered Users Posts: 5,324 ✭✭✭JustAThought


    Frim what I recall if you are on jobseekers allowance you are allowed apply for a 2 week holiday from jobseeking once every 12 months and if this is granted your payment will be made to you on your return - if permission os given. Otherwise you are not seeking and available for work and somcan have your payment stopped and be prosecuted for illegal claims.

    Seems fair if you are claiming a benefit paid for by hardwrking taxpayers saying you have no income and are available and looking for work. I like to think you’re actually doing tour bit Nd not jollying around overses having a laugh at taxpayers expense and actually are doing ehat you are being paid to - seek and be available for work. Not drinking beers on a beech or gigging in bars in Belgium or doing Irrsh dancing for cash in Paris. etc


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