Post primary return to schools roadmap

am_zarathustra

What happens when their are no teachers to cover classes? Without mixing classes and spreading student and, at one stage ironically, having 3 classes in an old PE hall we would have had unsupervised classes last year due to absense. This can't happen this year. Schools in Dublin will shut because there are absolutely no subs and I really hope it shines a light on how bad the recruitment crisis really is

khalessi

am_zarathustra wrote: »

What happens when their are no teachers to cover classes? Without mixing classes and spreading student and, at one stage ironically, having 3 classes in an old PE hall we would have had unsupervised classes last year due to absense. This can't happen this year. Schools in Dublin will shut because there are absolutely no subs and I really hope it shines a light on how bad the recruitment crisis really is

A primary school but I received letter from kids school saying they will be sent home if class cannot be covered by SET or sub, as they cannot be split.

am_zarathustra

In primary I can see that, putting 6 kids here and there was madness at the best of times with the numbers for primary.. In secondary I don't know what happens. Go home for an hour and come back? We should have started doing that years ago instead of papering over the cracks!! I had another option down the back of my LC class for 6 weeks because we had no cover, my partner correcting work for them as she happened to be qualified in the area. Schools and teachers have done mad things to keep kids learning despite the department just pretending their isn't a crisis. I hope parents realise how bad it is when they get phonecalls. Maybe then primetime will address the chronic underfunding and lack of capacity

rainbowtrout

soso02 wrote: »

Yes preferable. What you want is for heads to roll for a school doing its best.

I think much of the criticism of Norma Foley is unwarranted. She has kept a very low profile, obviously working very hard behind the scenes.
I've even heard some teachers here criticise her appearance FFS. Leave this woman do her job

Do you have evidence for this?

She hasn't made any coherent statement since she was appointed. She's avoided just about every question asked of her. This is the single biggest reopening in the country since lockdown. She should be more visible. Even if there is a serious fuck up, it would be nice to know that some effort was being made to provide safe conditions.

rainbowtrout

am_zarathustra wrote: »

In primary I can see that, putting 6 kids here and there was madness at the best of times with the numbers for primary.. In secondary I don't know what happens. Go home for an hour and come back? We should have started doing that years ago instead of papering over the cracks!! I had another option down the back of my LC class for 6 weeks because we had no cover, my partner correcting work for them as she happened to be qualified in the area. Schools and teachers have done mad things to keep kids learning despite the department just pretending their isn't a crisis. I hope parents realise how bad it is when they get phonecalls. Maybe then primetime will address the chronic underfunding and lack of capacity

I broke my leg early 2018 and missed 7 weeks of school. While my classes were supervised of my three LC groups only one was actually taught. The others had no teacher for those 7 week, just supervision.

am_zarathustra

And that is so common. We had randomers and PMEs in doing cover the last couple of years and half the time the work left on the desk, clearly marked was only handed out when one of the kids or an SNA asked for it. I started just giving the SNAs the work or a reliable kid if I was going to be gone or emailing it to them, at least they were reliable and would make sure a bit of work was done.

There is a gap between the standard of education in urban areas like Dublin and the rest of the country opening. I'd say if you are between the canals and not in a private school at least 1 or 2 of your teachers are not qualified and I'd be shocked if when a teacher was out your were getting a qualified subject expert.

amacca

petejmk wrote: »

But someone working hard behind the scenes would know her own dept's guidelines on masks at second level.

The Dept: they're recommended.
The Minister: they're compulsory.

The criticism of her performance is fully warranted when she can't even get that right.

Oh.......so they are not compulsory????

silly me I assumed the minister for education would be correct on the one thing she was definitive on

I didn't question it at all I presumed it was 100% accurate and the guidance had changed

I was actually thinking well that clears that one up anyway:o

r93kaey5p2izun

petejmk wrote: »

I don't agree with the comments on appearance. It's irrelevant.

But someone working hard behind the scenes would know her own dept's guidelines on masks at second level.

The Dept: they're recommended.
The Minister: they're compulsory.

The criticism of her performance is fully warranted when she can't even get that right.

This is the wording from the reopening plan:

"It is therefore a requirement that teachers, staff and students attending post primary schools wear a face covering when a physical distance of 2m from other staff or students cannot be maintained."

Sounds compulsory to me.

Treppen

amacca wrote: »

Oh.......so they are not compulsory????

silly me I assumed the minister for education would be correct on the one thing she was definitive on

I didn't question it at all I presumed it was 100% accurate and the guidance had changed

I was actually thinking well that clears that one up anyway:o

She should have quoted Regina Doherty

Minister says Public Services Card is 'not compulsory but is mandatory for services'

Treppen

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Do you have evidence for this?

She hasn't made any coherent statement since she was appointed. She's avoided just about every question asked of her. This is the single biggest reopening in the country since lockdown. She should be more visible. Even if there is a serious fuck up, it would be nice to know that some effort was being made to provide safe conditions.

Not true:

The Minister for Education Norma Foley has announced that funding has been approved for Dromclough National School in Listowel.

and that was it really...

Treppen

one one hand I'm total facepalm with the school in Carlow. At least they left space for the holy spirit etc :pac:

But after reading the 'outraged' replies on twitter, it looks like people are only waking up to whats happening across the country en masse right now.

It just shows that interest in education is of a temporary nature, the media circus will move elsewhere and teachers will be left as usual to try and make something work and take the flack for doing so.

Despite all our best efforts it wont be really that much different than a golf function in Clifden (except we don't get to reside at our temporary homes at the K Club ...bought with 450k cash..allegedly )

For journalists and pundits it's like all their Christmases have come at once.

r93kaey5p2izun

Have ye seen the guidelines for practical subjects. TUI sent them out this evening.

petejmk

Ophelia Modern Firehouse wrote: »

This is the wording from the reopening plan:

"It is therefore a requirement that teachers, staff and students attending post primary schools wear a face covering when a physical distance of 2m from other staff or students cannot be maintained."

Sounds compulsory to me.

See here: https://www.education.ie/en/Press-Events/Press-Releases/2020-press-releases/PR20-08-07.html

The guidelines changed 7th August as per that release. They haven't changed since. It says recommended.

mirrorwall14

Ophelia Modern Firehouse wrote: »

Have ye seen the guidelines for practical subjects. TUI sent them out this evening.

Yeah. TBH in music I'm just leaving all performance work for the moment. There has to be a risk assessment of the space. I'm not even going to bother trying to ask for one right now.

Our building is currently a disaster zone from a covid standpoint. As of yesterday no signs, no sanitisers (except a bottle at one entry point to one building), no tape on the floors, a large amount of rooms are not even finished being emptied never mind laid out. Our isolation room is supposedly going to be a disabled toilet. Apparently we are building a seat over the toilet itself. No ventilation. Its a school of nearly 800 stuffed into the building

There's a ton of work being done but yeah I think managements head might explode if I asked about a risk assessment. And tbh as someone who is high risk I'm not comfortable with it myself yet. Will see how september goes, concentrate on rhythm work and get them submitting performances by email for me to check

km79

She is a disaster
No wonder Martin doesn’t let her out too often

jimmytwotimes 2013

km79 wrote: »

She is a disaster
No wonder Martin doesn’t let her out too often

She's bad, he's an absolute spoofer tho

Icsics

She’s on TV3 now....same as last nite jargon led

Treppen

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Yeah. TBH in music I'm just leaving all performance work for the moment. There has to be a risk assessment of the space. I'm not even going to bother trying to ask for one right now.

Our building is currently a disaster zone from a covid standpoint. As of yesterday no signs, no sanitisers (except a bottle at one entry point to one building), no tape on the floors, a large amount of rooms are not even finished being emptied never mind laid out. Our isolation room is supposedly going to be a disabled toilet. Apparently we are building a seat over the toilet itself. No ventilation. Its a school of nearly 800 stuffed into the building

There's a ton of work being done but yeah I think managements head might explode if I asked about a risk assessment. And tbh as someone who is high risk I'm not comfortable with it myself yet. Will see how september goes, concentrate on rhythm work and get them submitting performances by email for me to check

Wow!
We got sent photos and there's tape all over the place (one way system all around the school).
All walls and classrooms stripped bare, zero posters. Hand sanitizer outside every room and on teachers desk (with masks)
2 designated isolation rooms, one was archives so I presume they chucked all accounts and photos into the skip (knowing our maintainance guy :pac: )
Staff room just has single table and chairs (like we're all doing exams).
1 yeargroup of Students in tomorrow, no assembly unless outside (take note Carlow). Students go straight to base classrooms for 'the talk'.

Have to say I'm impressed. Although is it just deckchairs on a titanic? well soon find out.

I pity the first student who tests positive though. I can see a riot starting when it happens (students will be manageable, the parents will be doing the rioting).

It's inevitable lots of 500+ population schools will find a student who tests positive isn't it? Any stats, or I suppose we're making the stats up once Monday starts.

See you all in Berlin for coffee and cake

rainbowtrout

soso02 wrote: »

Why do there have to be downgrades ? Are you willing to teach your 6th year students who fail maths but repeat to matriculate ? I wouldn't be entertaining this.

Certainly we cannot be having a major increase in the number of top grades awarded for fairness to candidates from previous years. But what I don't agree with is failing students for the sake of failing them or because the computer says no.


In recognition of the extraordinary circumstances, no one should fail this year. Or at the very least have matriculation requirements waived for applicants who fail maths.

Passing people for the sake of passing them is the same as having too many high grades. It is not fair on students from previous year or future years if there is a significant cohort of students who are passed this year who don't deserve it.

A H8 or an O7/O8 are simply grades on a spectrum of grades. A certain percentage of students get those grades. It just so happens that getting one of those grades can have more serious implications than getting a H1 v H2.

r93kaey5p2izun

petejmk wrote: »

See here: https://www.education.ie/en/Press-Events/Press-Releases/2020-press-releases/PR20-08-07.html

The guidelines changed 7th August as per that release. They haven't changed since. It says recommended.

See here.
https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/41704-control-measures-covid-19-response-plan-for-safe-reopening-of-post-primary-schools/#use-of-ppe-in-schools


That's the current version of the plan, under "Control Measures" "Use of PPE in schools". Look to the section on Masks/Face Coverings. 17th August is the last update. The release was an announcement, the guidelines were then updated with the detailed info.

Alex86Eire

Any teachers based in a science lab here? I'm concerned about the use of alcohol sanitiser in the room where I'd be lighting bunsens. My school doesn't seem to be too concerned about it.

am_zarathustra

Stated clearly that it shouldn't be alcohol if possible in the new practical guidelines! Just on the DOE website last night

petejmk

Ophelia Modern Firehouse wrote: »

See here.
https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/41704-control-measures-covid-19-response-plan-for-safe-reopening-of-post-primary-schools/#use-of-ppe-in-schools


That's the current version of the plan, under "Control Measures" "Use of PPE in schools". Look to the section on Masks/Face Coverings. 17th August is the last update. The release was an announcement, the guidelines were then updated with the detailed info.

Thanks for the link. I'd have to watch back but it think she said masks were compulsory as opposed to face coverings. Face coverings include visors, the effectiveness of which are in question.

Alex86Eire

"Students who refuse to wear face masks will be sent home from secondary schools, Norma Foley says"

https://www.thejournal.ie/face-masks-irish-schools-5186366-Aug2020/

Rosita

Alex86Eire wrote: »

"Students who refuse to wear face masks will be sent home from secondary schools, Norma Foley says"

https://www.thejournal.ie/face-masks-irish-schools-5186366-Aug2020/

She stopped short of actually saying this. While here interview was good politically, as in she showed she was articulate and copped on, in terms of detail the vagueness of the guidelines came across in her answers.

Ultimately it will come down to the cojones of the Principal. As I said before we had a guy who was coming to school in a tracksuit for the four months before we closed in very clear contravention of school rules. But it was fobbed off with the old "choose your battles" cliché and nothing was done.

r93kaey5p2izun

petejmk wrote: »

Thanks for the link. I'd have to watch back but it think she said masks were compulsory as opposed to face coverings. Face coverings include visors, the effectiveness of which are in question.

There is a distinction drawn between face coverings and visors, which are to considered only "in certain circumstances". It is mask or cloth face covering which is required.

r93kaey5p2izun

Rosita wrote: »

She stopped short of actually saying this. While here interview was good politically, as in she showed she was articulate and copped on, in terms of detail the vagueness of the guidelines came across in her answers.

Ultimately it will come down to the cojones of the Principal. As I said before we had a guy who was coming to school in a tracksuit for the four months before we closed in very clear contravention of school rules. But it was fobbed off with the old "choose your battles" cliché and nothing was done.

TUI say there is a "nationally agreed supplement" for schools' code of behaviour "mandated by the Department of Education" regarding refusal to wear a face covering and it is to be treated as a "serious disciplinary offence ". No sign of the actual "supplement" though.

rainbowtrout

Alex86Eire wrote: »

Any teachers based in a science lab here? I'm concerned about the use of alcohol sanitiser in the room where I'd be lighting bunsens. My school doesn't seem to be too concerned about it.

It says to use non alcohol sanitizer in the practical guidelines.

rainbowtrout

Rosita wrote: »

Ultimately it will come down to the cojones of the Principal. As I said before we had a guy who was coming to school in a tracksuit for the four months before we closed in very clear contravention of school rules. But it was fobbed off with the old "choose your battles" cliché and nothing was done.

Ya, we've all definitely had one or two of those kids. But this time it's a health and safety issue. Principal can cite the immuno-compromised student/staff member and the risk to their health.

petejmk

Ophelia Modern Firehouse wrote: »

There is a distinction drawn between face coverings and visors, which are to considered only "in certain circumstances". It is mask or cloth face covering which is required.

I might be missing something but cloth face coverings are mentioned and in the following paragraph it reverts to face coverings.