Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

The Belly

Idbatterim wrote: »

We accept risk of death for working many jobs, accidents, medical grounds. I really think the covid thing is pushed by the media so much , because its a potential once in a lifetime mass hystetia event , that they can milk for months , potentialy years on end. Its gods gift as far as they are comcerned...

As the country goes into a economic nose dive our so-called leaders and experts and the MSM will be unaffected regardless of how bad it gets.

When this all ends Politicians will retire or go to Europe medical experts will fade away back to where they were before and the MSM will have new stories to write about.

The economy, however will be in tatters.

Power is easy to give away and as we see now very hard to take back.

Idbatterim

The last recession brought on us by ff, fg woukd have done the same. But this one is far more inexcusable in my opinion! The last one they said the people all partied, that was the politicians excuse. What will i6 be this time? They wanted everything shut to the cost of billions a month oh and the large bill is in the post ? :rolleyes:

John O.Groats

Idbatterim wrote: »

The last recession brought on us by ff, fg woukd have done the same. But this one is far more inexcusable in my opinion! The last one they said the people all partied, that was the politicians excuse. What will i6 be this time? They wanted everything shut to the cost of billions a month oh and the large bill is in the post ? :rolleyes:

I wonder how much more the cost would have been if your SF heroes were in power? Or whoever you have decided to switch to now. You have flip flopped from supporting FG to SF in recent times.. It wouldn`t surprise me in the slightest if you have voted for FF in the past as well.

Idbatterim

John O.Groats wrote: »

I wonder how much more the cost would have been if your SF heroes were in power? Or whoever you have decided to switch to now. You have flip flopped from supporting FG to SF in recent times.. It wouldn`t surprise me in the slightest if you have voted for FF in the past as well.

Listen , if every party here is to the left in one sense, what do expect? Fg support free housing for those that dont contribute and rip off housing for their voters. Ill take the chance on sf continuing with the giveway ,but perhaps doing something for the rest of us :rolleyes:

PTH2009

I wonder will any Irish Independent leaks come out tonight about phase 4 or 3.5

_Kaiser_

PTH2009 wrote: »

I wonder will any Irish Independent leaks come out tonight about phase 4 or 3.5

There was a news alert on my phone earlier (I think it was the Indo) saying that optimism around pubs reopening was fading alright

John O.Groats

Idbatterim wrote: »

Listen , if every party here is to the left in one sense, what do expect? Fg support free housing for those that dont contribute and rip off housing for their voters. Ill take the chance on sf continuing with the giveway ,but perhaps doing something for the rest of us :rolleyes:

Such as what? Pearse Doherty is on record as saying that everybody should have been given a 500 euro a week PUP payment so for someone who constantly bangs on about the fragile state of the economy and engages in rants about the "morons" in government it strikes me as bizarre that you could possibly support a party who takes that stance.

Dempo1

I think we've actually become too relaxed about this pandemic, it's barely featured on RTE news bulletins anymore, I've seen very little social distancing out and about, some supermarkets seem to have a half hearted approach and whilst I see partitions, not seeing many staff wearing masks. Small retail seemed have just stopped bothering, saw this first hand in a book and phone shop over the weekend.

What's really alarming is few people seem to be noticing what's happening abroad, Melbourne, Australia, not just a stopping of phases, but a complete curfew just introduced. USA, is frightening, 1000 deaths a day currently and there 5 months into this crisis , I get the trump incompetence not helping but 1000 a day, shocking.

I sympathise whole heartidly with any business affected but I just think we've become quite complacent about this despite it not gone anywhere.

Dempo1

Dempo1 wrote: »

I think we've actually become too relaxed about this pandemic, it's barely featured on RTE news bulletins anymore, I've seen very little social distancing out and about, some supermarkets seem to have a half hearted approach and whilst I see partitions, not seeing many staff wearing masks. Small retail seemed have just stopped bothering, saw this first hand in a book and phone shop over the weekend.

What's really alarming is few people seem to be noticing what's happening abroad, Melbourne, Australia, not just a stopping of phases, but a complete curfew just introduced. USA, is frightening, 1000 deaths a day currently and there 5 months into this crisis , I get the trump incompetence not helping but 1000 a day, shocking.

I sympathise whole heartidly with any business affected but I just think we've become quite complacent about this despite it not gone anywhere.

We’ve had every pub, school and college in the country closed going into a 6th month now and maybe still more to go.

Majority of office workers working from home. 350000 people getting the PUP payment.
Many other businesses were closed for long spells.

Flights are down by something like 97%.
People are wearing masks.
It’s been the top new story for months now.

The over reaction and hysteria is ridiculous!
We’ve tanked the f*cking economy for years to come.

What else would you suggest? If we drop a Nuclear bomb on the country at least no one else will die of Covid?

The Belly

Deleted User wrote: »

We’ve had every pub, school and college in the country closed going into a 6th month now and maybe still more to go.

Majority of office workers working from home. 350000 people getting the PUP payment.
Many other businesses were closed for long spells.

Flights are down by something like 97%.
People are wearing masks.
It’s been the top new story for months now.

The over reaction and hysteria is ridiculous!
We’ve tanked the f*cking economy for years to come.

What else would you suggest? If we drop a Nuclear bomb on the country at least no one else will die of Covid?

Covid is here to stay as stated by the WHO . We either get used to it and move on or in a very short space of time the country's finances will collapse and we will have social disorder.

Captain_Crash

Deleted User wrote: »

If we drop a Nuclear bomb on the country at least no one else will die of Covid?

I'm sure RTE will find a way of reporting them as Covid deaths

stephenjmcd

Premium article but basically,
Indoor events to remain limited to 50, outdoor events to go to 500, no nightclubs (as everyone knew there wouldn't be). On pubs,

"some ministers believe pubs should be allowed to open under strict rules limiting their opening hours and the number of people who can drink in a premises.

A Government source said a decision on pubs would have to be "teased out" by ministers and they expected a "lengthy discussion".

A little further on in the article, A senior minister said the "general consensus" within Cabinet was that pubs should be allowed to open.

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/bad-news-for-summer-weddings-strict-rules-on-indoor-gatherings-to-stay-in-place-as-gaa-gets-go-ahead-for-bigger-crowds-39421313.html

The HorsesMouth

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Premium article but basically,
Indoor events to remain limited to 50, outdoor events to go to 500, no nightclubs (as everyone knew there wouldn't be). On pubs,

"some ministers believe pubs should be allowed to open under strict rules limiting their opening hours and the number of people who can drink in a premises.

A Government source said a decision on pubs would have to be "teased out" by ministers and they expected a "lengthy discussion".

A little further on in the article, A senior minister said the "general consensus" within Cabinet was that pubs should be allowed to open.

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/bad-news-for-summer-weddings-strict-rules-on-indoor-gatherings-to-stay-in-place-as-gaa-gets-go-ahead-for-bigger-crowds-39421313.html

Really don't understand the logic of the 50 limited numbers. It should be according to venue size. How does it make sense that you can have 50 in a small parish hall and 50 in a huge hotel ballroom?
Nevermind the fact that over the border you can have 150 in an identical sized ballroom to the a hotel in the south.
It shouldn't be blanket 50. It should be 1 person per 5sqm or something along those lines.

stateofflux

Dempo1 wrote: »

I think we've actually become too relaxed about this pandemic, it's barely featured on RTE news bulletins anymore, I've seen very little social distancing out and about, some supermarkets seem to have a half hearted approach and whilst I see partitions, not seeing many staff wearing masks. Small retail seemed have just stopped bothering, saw this first hand in a book and phone shop over the weekend.

What's really alarming is few people seem to be noticing what's happening abroad, Melbourne, Australia, not just a stopping of phases, but a complete curfew just introduced. USA, is frightening, 1000 deaths a day currently and there 5 months into this crisis , I get the trump incompetence not helping but 1000 a day, shocking.

I sympathise whole heartidly with any business affected but I just think we've become quite complacent about this despite it not gone anywhere.

Ever since i climbed into my wardrobe, shut the door and kissed my ass goodbye i feel a lot safer.

average_runner

The HorsesMouth wrote: »

Really don't understand the logic of the 50 limited numbers. It should be according to venue size. How does it make sense that you can have 50 in a small parish hall and 50 in a huge hotel ballroom?
Nevermind the fact that over the border you can have 150 in an identical sized ballroom to the a hotel in the south.
It shouldn't be blanket 50. It should be 1 person per 5sqm or something along those lines.

I think the number restriction is to do with making it easier to contact trace if there is a cluster. Just easier to handle. Once that part is working well they will increase it up. Did the same for Mass, no matter what size the church was, it was max of 50. So i couldn't go:D:D

bucketybuck

Another day without a Covid death, health officials are said to be very concerned and advise a cautious approach.

Imminent decision likely to be that due to the number of deaths that an entire business sector be shut down for good.

bucketybuck

bucketybuck wrote: »

Another day without a Covid death, health officials are said to be very concerned and advise a cautious approach.

Imminent decision likely to be that due to the number of deaths that an entire business sector be shut down for good.

Unless they sell chicken tenders...

Ginger n Lemon

OMG I AM RAGING.

I AM FUMING.

JAYSUS

WHAT THE F?!?!?!?!? 6 month effective lockdown for pubs?!?!?!?!??!?! 6 months? Just tell them to liquidate now.

We were the only country on the planet to have 5 months lockdown for a business sector, now we will be the only country to have 6 months lockdown for a business sector. Guinness world records. No pun intended............. :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Pathetic excuse for a government. "prioritise schools" what the hell? School pupils dont go to pubs, and pub drinkers dont go to schools. This is beyond idiotic now, even for the strongest lockdown supporters - surely we cant keep 30,000 + pub staff at home for months on end while deaths with covid in the country dont even exceed road crashes since like June?????

PTH2009

fuming about this crowds permitted not changing

Thank **** im home cause if someone pissed me off on the street god help them :mad::mad::D

Ginger n Lemon

In the meantime they ll have fans in German football stadiums come 18 September.

While this lad we have in the govt keeps talking absolute bull

Varadkar added that “it is the unfortunate truth this pandemic is still raging across the world”.

He added that Ireland is still doing relatively well compared to countries “and we want to keep it that way”.

https://www.thejournal.ie/pubs-reopening-cabinet-5167278-Aug2020/

Relative to a disease that you need a test for to know if you have it? Yes. Relative to economy, GDP, low unemployment? F no.

Assetbacked

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

OMG I AM RAGING.

I AM FUMING.

JAYSUS

WHAT THE F?!?!?!?!? 6 month effective lockdown for pubs?!?!?!?!??!?! 6 months? Just tell them to liquidate now.

We were the only country on the planet to have 5 months lockdown for a business sector, now we will be the only country to have 6 months lockdown for a business sector. Guinness world records. No pun intended............. :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Pathetic excuse for a government. "prioritise schools" what the hell? School pupils dont go to pubs, and pub drinkers dont go to school. This is beyond idiotic now, even for the strongest lockdown supporters - surely we cant keep 30,000 + pub staff at home for months on end while deaths with covid in the country dont even exceed road crashes since like June?????

Here is a data-driven post which, to me, does not sit with the NPHET advice or with any decision to delay further easing of restrictions.

By the way, it's not just pubs, Aer Lingus have around 10,000 employees who are on the brink of being made fully redundant.

The two key data sources for Ireland are the following;

https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/casesinireland/epidemiologyofcovid-19inireland/
https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/cases-2019-ncov-eueea

For travel, the government use this chart (one example of a Coveney quote https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53442261) so it beggars belief that we do not have a bigger green list;



Today's numbers; 0 deaths and 45 cases, 77% of whom are under 45. Another day with 0 deaths - as expected as our deaths peaked weeks ago. In respect of the 36 of whom are aged under 45, a conservative estimate on the outcome of these cases is the following (source; https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/casesinireland/epidemiologyofcovid-19inireland/COVID-19_Daily_epidemiology_report_(NPHET)_31072020%20-%20Website.pdf);

1 person may end up in hospital but won't end up in ICU and won't die.

In respect of the 9 of whom are aged over 45, a conservative estimate on the outcome of these cases is the following;

2 may end up in hospital, 0 will end up in ICU and of course 0 will die.

https://covid19ireland-geohive.hub.arcgis.com/

Currently there are 14 cases in hospital with 5 in ICU in the whole of Ireland.

Why are these conservative estimates? Well, firstly because we have not recorded positive tests for everyone who has been infected with covid in Ireland and secondly because our hospitalisations, ICU and fatality rates are counting those "with" covid so those who had covid when hospitalised or they died counted in these stats.

Lundstram

Deaths from Covid19 last 7 days - 1

Deaths from road traffic accidents last 7 days - 6

I guess we should all stop driving now?

Absolutely mental decision to not open pubs and even more mental to not allow outdoor gatherings to rise from 200 to 500. I really hate this country sometimes.

Lundstram

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

In the meantime they ll have fans in German football stadiums come 18 September.

While this lad we have in the govt keeps talking absolute bull

Varadkar added that “it is the unfortunate truth this pandemic is still raging across the world”.

He added that Ireland is still doing relatively well compared to countries “and we want to keep it that way”.

https://www.thejournal.ie/pubs-reopening-cabinet-5167278-Aug2020/

Relative to a disease that you need a test for to know if you have it? Yes. Relative to economy, GDP, low unemployment? F no.

It's all about looking good on the EU and international stage, bragging how good our numbers are while letting the economy go to fcuking sh1t. They have their pay rises now, they won't be paying for this, Ronan Glynn won't be paying for this, they'll ride off into the sunset on their disgustingly generous pensions when they get the boot come election time, it'll be the ordinary working tax payer that will foot the bill and make no mistake about it, the bill for this is going to be astronomical.

People are going to be in for a massive shock come Budget 2021 in October. They'll change their tune then.

_Kaiser_

So masks look to be becoming actually mandatory in retail from next week - wonderful :rolleyes:

All for 14 people in hospital, only 5 of which are in ICU.

Farcical and again completely deferring to NPHET's extremely conservative (by nature) advice.

I will not be surprised if protests by workers in the worst affected sectors follow shortly

_Kaiser_

Next review date is 3 weeks from August 10th. Even getting that info was a joke as they all panicked from having to go off script.

NPHET refusing to answer what conditions need to be met to tighten/relax restrictions.

And Micheal is clearly terrified of making a decision that he might have to stand over. Just like the lad on his right before him

It's like March/April all over again

Assetbacked

I posted this 2 months ago on social distancing https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=113674229

Why I still think it is very relevant is based on my observation of why they are so focused on getting schools back; social distancing dies once kids are back as there is zero chance of enforcing any sort of masks or social distancing outside of the classroom. Further, public transport will start to fill up again with these school kids which means that social distancing on the buses, darts etc. has to be done away with in order to ensure people can actually get to school and work. These school kids may also be competing for space on public transport with office workers who are going to start returning to the office throughout the autumn putting further pressure on the requirements to social distance on public transport.

Schoolkids are, from the data, of negligible risk from covid so even if children have been infected, they won't end up being tested as they won't show any symptoms. The measures to get the schools up and running are, to a large extent, optics.

To contextualise this post, if a wave of covid means a sharp increase in ICU admissions and deaths (rather than a mere increase in cases), then there is not a lot of evidence for a second wave in countries that are ahead of Ireland (e.g. Italy). At worst, there are some spikes and that's it, with places like the southern states in the US and Australia only going through their first wave currently. I do not think there is more than one burn through society with covid and I even notice this where the response to this claim is that "well the unknown and unproven long-term effects are the concern". In this context, I feel once the schools are back, by October we will have a lot of society back to normal.

Ginger n Lemon

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

So masks look to be becoming actually mandatory in retail from next week - wonderful :rolleyes:

All for 14 people in hospital, only 5 of which are in ICU.

Farcical and again completely deferring to NPHET's extremely conservative (by nature) advice.

I will not be surprised if protests by workers in the worst affected sectors follow shortly

I would join such. And there would be 100,000 + affected, pub workers, gig workers, unemployed youth the list goes on

The lack of critical thinking or questioning of this whole thing is disturbing. A lot of people had their jobs destroyed, holiday cancelled, medical appointments cancelled, events cancelled, child's education damaged etc. over a disease that you need to do a test for to know if you have it. Now we are being forced to wear a nappy on our faces on a bus or when buying some socks. You can have a meal in a restaurant with 50 people around you without a mask, interacting with waiter etc., but you gotta put mask on to go to a boutique shop with 2 other people inside.

But its quite obvious something is going on when new cases are being reported but not a single word over whether anyone is actually ill.....

We have PPE, whole world has PPE actually, we have tons of hospital capacity, over 150 + empty ICU beds, we've brainwashed our population into washing hands and sneezing manners over TV ads for the last 6 months, we have our great tracing app, we give all of our contact details in every establishment when we eat or have a haircut, we must wear a face nappy everytime we want to buy some clothes etc. AND THIS IS STILL NOT ENOUGH TO REOPEN BUSINESSES in our medical advice country.

Ginger n Lemon

The only thing I dont understand is why vintners havent gotten around to employing some serious legal team and challenging all of this rubbish, way back on 21 July? Ryanair are due to challenge this idiotic greenlist with fking Greenland on it...... poster above me clearly shows with a map that most of Europe is actually safe, as safe as Ireland for this funny disease that you need a test to know if you have it. So given that such legal challenge for air transport didnt even go to courts in UK and multiple normal destinations were added immediately by UK government to their greenlist - I see Ryanair being pretty successful come 12th of Aug. Or earlier hopefully.

Vintners just need to go to courts. There are only 2 ways we ll avoid mass unemployment and poverty, either through courts ruling or protests. We arent well known for protesting (albeit different times different measures), so at the moment courts should very much be utilised, ASAP. Enough is enough.

pm1977x

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

And with that post you prove my point nicely.

Here's something that you may find upsetting. I'd never heard of Gemma until posts from people like yourself appeared on this site. I'm not a Shinner or lefty either (shocking I know!), but I'm also not so blinded by validation-seeking that I can't recognise spin and deflection when I see it - whether it be by RTE (who funnily enough there are lots of threads around how they're more like a propaganda outlet at times than journalistic integrity - guess that's another thing that's been forgotten in the CV-19 hysteria), Government, or posters online.

All posts like yours do is weaken your own argument. Resorting to childish name-calling, whataboutery, deflection and so on in place of a reasoned counterargument may be commonplace these days online, but I'm quite capable of recognising that too!

I don't find that upsetting no, why would I, lucky you! However, perhaps it shows an absence of awareness of current affairs?



Don't worry I'll be sure to form a reasoned counterargument to the likes of:


''That snake varadkar , would support genocide if it were found to be a bigger vote winner, total creep !''


it might take a while though, so much nuance and thought involved in this and similar outbursts from some posters last night.

_Kaiser_

pm1977x wrote: »

I don't find that upsetting no, why would I, lucky you! However, perhaps it shows an absence of awareness of current affairs?



Don't worry I'll be sure to form a reasoned counterargument to the likes of:


''That snake varadkar , would support genocide if it were found to be a bigger vote winner, total creep !''


it might take a while though, so much nuance and thought involved in this and similar outbursts from some posters last night.

I thought about a reply to this, but instead I think I'll just let you prove my point for me again.

As for the "outburst" from the other poster you quoted, you'll need to take that up with them.