Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

snotboogie

The Belly wrote: »

Well, thats debatable.

In order to be sure to eradicate covid completely the island of Ireland would need to be shut down no one in or out.

The entire population tested over and over again. Anyone with covid isolated not self-isolation. Then we would have a covid free island eventually and a failed state.

Its more realistic than your solution of lifting all restrictions. There is a reason that governments across the world have had an almost uniform response to the virus and not a single one has lifted all restrictions.

Its not that no government has thought of your solution or no government has looked into this, they have and every single one has found it to be impossible.

acequion

Spiderman0081 wrote: »

It’s hard to believe Irish politicians and media are continuing on the track they are. It’s even harder to believe so many people seem to be accepting the psychotic ramblings of politicians and pretend virus experts. I am delighted to see many on here are beginning to see the bigger picture though. And it’s not a pretty one that’s being painted.
There is not one bit of humility left in the leadership of Ireland. Maybe humility was never there but there was certainly a bit of pride among politicians for the fact that Ireland was something worth fighting for. That is gone. Their hopes and dreams are only to climb high enough up the EU ladder so that they can sit at the big boys table to share in the spoils of a destroyed Europe. The economic damage they are causing to Ireland by cancelling the economy will dwarf the damage covid has caused. When pensions are wiped out we will be reminded it was to stop the virus. There was no other way, don’t you see? Of course crippling a country was the only way.
The covid bale out fund Michael Martin signed over so eagerly to the EU has put Ireland in debt for decades. Ireland, little old Ireland is giving away billions to countries with lower taxes and lower pension ages. Italy for example already owes billions to German banks. Italy is hanging on by its fingernails economically but by some magic wand the Irish government seems to possess, he has tricked everyone in Ireland to pay off these loans. That’s why Germany was so eager to get the deal done. This deal in itself should have been voted for or against by the people of Ireland. It was a much bigger matter than actually joining the euro, not that the vast majority seems to notice or care. Using covid as an excuse couldn’t have come at a better time.
And now businesses will stay closed unless they service a basket of greasy chicken wings.
Because no matter what happens people, we can’t let anyone die. Never again will someone die on our watch in Ireland. We don’t care if we increase the level of suicide in Ireland tenfold , because we won’t count them as a covid deaths. We don’t care if we kill off 1000’s of small businesses because they’re not covid deaths either. No one will ever die again. Let’s make sure of that. At whatever the cost. Are you with me people of Ireland?

Oh I can hear the applauding already

Excellent post. People really should be mobilising for a fighback against this madness. But all you'll get in Ireland will be a whimper before the old dog turns over to get kicked some more.:(

John O.Groats

The Belly wrote: »

Any lockdown in any form is not going to eradicate covid but what it will do its destroy our economy and our normal way of life.

I'm sure Gerry is an expert in his field and has his expert advice but he is out of his depth when he talks about how his proposal would save the economy.

The only thing at this stage that can limit the damage is the lifting of all covid restrictions and let people themselves decide what they want to do.

A candidate for the most ridiculous post I have read on here and that is saying something. This can`t possibly be a serious comment.

The Belly

John O.Groats wrote: »

A candidate for the most ridiculous post I have read on here and that is saying something. This can`t possibly be a serious comment.

And your suggestion is?

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Co incidentally first time I've watched RTE since mid July today.

So M Martin says this, when asked why didnt government look at county by county approach to reopening pubs

"It would be too onerous to gather data"

fk me. actually said that.

O well, lets hope it wont be too onerous for CSO to collect all that data relating to unemployment and liquidations. Fkin hell.

Another great answer by Ronan Glynn too, when asked why didnt the 200 outdoor gathering limit went to 500 with relation to attending GAA games etc., he comes out with a classic

"There is no issue with having couple of hundred people inside a stadium from public health perspective, the issue would be people gathering together on the way to and from the stadium, taking same public transport"

Croke Park has 82,300 capacity. Currently, for the next 3 weeks actually, maximum of 200 fans could attend. Now is this stupid or what? What about cars? Driving in? Car parks??? Croke park car park has 300 car capacity. Now say 2 people drive in from same household and park, not sharing any bloody public transport (that, to my knowledge, in this country still hasnt had any "clusters") thats 600 fans straight away arriving in a safe manner. Use same approach throughout the country varying on stadium sizes etc.

There is a man missing in all this, our great minister for finance, the wet blanket who keeps borrowing..... VAT intake ? Abysmal. Finance forecasts? Abysmal. Unemployment? through the roof. Is he still around btw? Seeing how he has no say in whether businesses in Ireland actually operate or not.

Almost like the whole government are in on the scam...

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Spiderman0081 wrote: »

It’s hard to believe Irish politicians and media are continuing on the track they are. It’s even harder to believe so many people seem to be accepting the psychotic ramblings of politicians and pretend virus experts. I am delighted to see many on here are beginning to see the bigger picture though. And it’s not a pretty one that’s being painted.
There is not one bit of humility left in the leadership of Ireland. Maybe humility was never there but there was certainly a bit of pride among politicians for the fact that Ireland was something worth fighting for. That is gone. Their hopes and dreams are only to climb high enough up the EU ladder so that they can sit at the big boys table to share in the spoils of a destroyed Europe. The economic damage they are causing to Ireland by cancelling the economy will dwarf the damage covid has caused. When pensions are wiped out we will be reminded it was to stop the virus. There was no other way, don’t you see? Of course crippling a country was the only way.
The covid bale out fund Michael Martin signed over so eagerly to the EU has put Ireland in debt for decades. Ireland, little old Ireland is giving away billions to countries with lower taxes and lower pension ages. Italy for example already owes billions to German banks. Italy is hanging on by its fingernails economically but by some magic wand the Irish government seems to possess, he has tricked everyone in Ireland to pay off these loans. That’s why Germany was so eager to get the deal done. This deal in itself should have been voted for or against by the people of Ireland. It was a much bigger matter than actually joining the euro, not that the vast majority seems to notice or care. Using covid as an excuse couldn’t have come at a better time.
And now businesses will stay closed unless they service a basket of greasy chicken wings.
Because no matter what happens people, we can’t let anyone die. Never again will someone die on our watch in Ireland. We don’t care if we increase the level of suicide in Ireland tenfold , because we won’t count them as a covid deaths. We don’t care if we kill off 1000’s of small businesses because they’re not covid deaths either. No one will ever die again. Let’s make sure of that. At whatever the cost. Are you with me people of Ireland?

Oh I can hear the applauding already

Thank you. It’s people like you who give me hope. For the past 5 months I’ve felt like I’m the only one thinking of the bigger picture. This is by far the biggest scandal that has ever happened our country.

hmmm

Spiderman0081 wrote: »

It’s hard to believe Irish politicians and media are continuing on the track they are. It’s even harder to believe so many people seem to be accepting the psychotic ramblings of politicians and pretend virus experts. I am delighted to see many on here are beginning to see the bigger picture though. And it’s not a pretty one that’s being painted.
There is not one bit of humility left in the leadership of Ireland. Maybe humility was never there but there was certainly a bit of pride among politicians for the fact that Ireland was something worth fighting for. That is gone. Their hopes and dreams are only to climb high enough up the EU ladder so that they can sit at the big boys table to share in the spoils of a destroyed Europe. The economic damage they are causing to Ireland by cancelling the economy will dwarf the damage covid has caused. When pensions are wiped out we will be reminded it was to stop the virus. There was no other way, don’t you see? Of course crippling a country was the only way.
The covid bale out fund Michael Martin signed over so eagerly to the EU has put Ireland in debt for decades. Ireland, little old Ireland is giving away billions to countries with lower taxes and lower pension ages. Italy for example already owes billions to German banks. Italy is hanging on by its fingernails economically but by some magic wand the Irish government seems to possess, he has tricked everyone in Ireland to pay off these loans. That’s why Germany was so eager to get the deal done. This deal in itself should have been voted for or against by the people of Ireland. It was a much bigger matter than actually joining the euro, not that the vast majority seems to notice or care. Using covid as an excuse couldn’t have come at a better time.
And now businesses will stay closed unless they service a basket of greasy chicken wings.
Because no matter what happens people, we can’t let anyone die. Never again will someone die on our watch in Ireland. We don’t care if we increase the level of suicide in Ireland tenfold , because we won’t count them as a covid deaths. We don’t care if we kill off 1000’s of small businesses because they’re not covid deaths either. No one will ever die again. Let’s make sure of that. At whatever the cost. Are you with me people of Ireland?

Oh I can hear the applauding already

The government are not taking advice from "pretend virus experts" - they are taking advice from the best physicians we have in the country.

I can think of nothing more patriotic than we as a country pulling together to suppress this virus, and allow our schools to open safely in September. I certainly don't consider your post to be patriotic, despite you probably thinking you are. If we opened pubs and nightclubs, and allowed our kids, teachers and parents to be at higher risk, it would be unforgiveable.

Idbatterim

Remember how last crash , the " markets" singled in on the piigs, hence we had to go to lender of last resort. Surely that can happen again now?

MickeyLeari

Idbatterim wrote: »

Remember how last crash , the " markets" singled in on the piigs, hence we had to go to lender of last resort. Surely that can happen again now?

It is complicated. ECB are bond buying so keeping rates low. But we still have to keep the economy viable. If a few big MNEs decide to leave Ireland or scale back investment then it will not be pretty.

We are looking at difficult economic decisions in the Autumn:

- public sector pay rise deferred.
- public sector recruitment ban.
- possible public sector pay cuts.
- public sector spending cuts (will hit 3rd party suppliers also).
- a cut in programmes including in the health service.

Like with the last crash these cuts will have lasting effects. The problem for the coalition is that they will all own this while SF will hurl from the ditch.

stephenjmcd

Contained within this article

"Government sources said a new "medium to long term" roadmap would be drafted in the coming weeks to set out how the country could "learn to live with the virus".

The new roadmap will seek to set out how the country can manage a rise in new cases while allowing schools and businesses operate as near to normal as possible."

Sorry but could / should this not have been done ages ago ?? As in its what most of us are doing now and the government as usual are playing catch up.

Anyway NPHET may as well be running the country.

https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/no-guarantee-that-pubs-will-reopen-this-year-taoiseach-39424649.html

yosemitesam1

hmmm wrote: »

The government are not taking advice from "pretend virus experts" - they are taking advice from the best physicians we have in the country.

I can think of nothing more patriotic than we as a country pulling together to suppress this virus, and allow our schools to open safely in September. I certainly don't consider your post to be patriotic, despite you probably thinking you are. If we opened pubs and nightclubs, and allowed our kids, teachers and parents to be at higher risk, it would be unforgiveable.

What we have is clinical specialists dealing with something that is totally outside of their area of speciality, ie field/population problem.
The approach taken by nphet shows that they don't actually understand the difference between the clinical and field setting from the point of view of collecting/interpreting meaningful data

Penfailed

normanoffside wrote: »

Indeed, 500 Allowed for outdoor gatherings and pubs fully opened a month now, case rate has stabilised at about 10 day and no deaths in over a fortnight.

Only pubs serving food. It's the same as here in that regard.

Spiderman0081

hmmm wrote: »

The government are not taking advice from "pretend virus experts" - they are taking advice from the best physicians we have in the country.

I can think of nothing more patriotic than we as a country pulling together to suppress this virus, and allow our schools to open safely in September. I certainly don't consider your post to be patriotic, despite you probably thinking you are. If we opened pubs and nightclubs, and allowed our kids, teachers and parents to be at higher risk, it would be unforgiveable.

The fears you have about re-opening schools are founded from fear itself, but not by the actual dangers posed by this virus. A fear that is necessary if you are to believe the strategy irish politicians have leaned so heavily on. I understand why you are afraid and would agree with you if the entire country’s population was over the age of 70.
Being patriotic has got nothing to do with blindly following the rallying call of career politicians. Take a step back, a deep breath and relax. Turn off RTÉ.
You’ll be fine.

Penfailed

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Are we the most embarrassing nation on the planet?

You've said similar to this before. Who's embarrassed?

MickeyLeari

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Contained within this article

"Government sources said a new "medium to long term" roadmap would be drafted in the coming weeks to set out how the country could "learn to live with the virus".

The new roadmap will seek to set out how the country can manage a rise in new cases while allowing schools and businesses operate as near to normal as possible."

Sorry but could / should this not have been done ages ago ?? As in its what most of us are doing now and the government as usual are playing catch up.

Anyway NPHET may as well be running the country.

https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/no-guarantee-that-pubs-will-reopen-this-year-taoiseach-39424649.html

Spot on. They should have had a proper strategy in place weeks ago. Instead they have been floundering getting excited by travel and curtains.

FintanMcluskey

hmmm wrote: »

The government are not taking advice from "pretend virus experts" - they are taking advice from the best physicians we have in the country.

I can think of nothing more patriotic than we as a country pulling together to suppress this virus, and allow our schools to open safely in September. I certainly don't consider your post to be patriotic, despite you probably thinking you are. If we opened pubs and nightclubs, and allowed our kids, teachers and parents to be at higher risk, it would be unforgiveable.

Lets put on our leprechaun suits, follow he rantings of master of disaster Gerry Killeen, and march our little country back to the 1940s.

Thierry12

hmmm wrote: »

The government are not taking advice from "pretend virus experts" - they are taking advice from the best physicians we have in the country.

I can think of nothing more patriotic than we as a country pulling together to suppress this virus, and allow our schools to open safely in September. I certainly don't consider your post to be patriotic, despite you probably thinking you are. If we opened pubs and nightclubs, and allowed our kids, teachers and parents to be at higher risk, it would be unforgiveable.

Opening schools lol

You seem a smart guy hmmm

School openings are doomed

I'd give it 1 maybe 3 days max before we have a school all over the media thats been infected

10 teachers, 80 students in quarantine will be the headline and it will happen in so many schools its going to be laughable

Penfailed

Thierry12 wrote: »

Opening schools lol

You seem a smart guy hmmm

School openings are doomed

I'd give it 1 maybe 3 days max before we have a school all over the media thats been infected

10 teachers, 80 students in quarantine will be the headline and it will happen in so many schools its going to be laughable

Laughable? We'll have to revisit this post 3 days after the schools open, yeah?

Leroy42

Are some posters really of the opinion that the government and medical professionals are deliberately making the wrong decisions and that their plan is to cripple the economy so some unknown reason?

And that all other governments around the world are doing the same, at the same time?

Was this a coordinated effort? So a plan hatched by China and involving the EU, UK, US and everywhere?

Spanish tourism is down 97.7%, just to get control and force people to wear masks?

And they are doing all this despite the very clear link between countries evonomies and elections?

That Trump, for example, has placed his own reelection in doubt for this master plan?

As conspiracy theories go, that is the daddy.

But I suppose it is easier to lash out at everyone, somebody must be to blame than to look at the reality that, at least in the short term, our previous way of life has been altered and we need to adapt.

None of that is to say that wrong decisions are not being made, this is unprecedented in our life times and all decisions are being made without complete information but that is very different from their being a worldwide conspiracy.

Spiderman0081

Leroy42 wrote: »

Are some posters really of the opinion that the government and medical professionals are deliberately making the wrong decisions and that their plan is to cripple the economy so some unknown reason?

And that all other governments around the world are doing the same, at the same time?

Was this a coordinated effort? So a plan hatched by China and involving the EU, UK, US and everywhere?

Spanish tourism is down 97.7%, just to get control and force people to wear masks?

And they are doing all this despite the very clear link between countries evonomies and elections?

That Trump, for example, has placed his own reelection in doubt for this master plan?

As conspiracy theories go, that is the daddy.

But I suppose it is easier to lash out at everyone, somebody must be to blame than to look at the reality that, at least in the short term, our previous way of life has been altered and we need to adapt.

None of that is to say that wrong decisions are not being made, this is unprecedented in our life times and all decisions are being made without complete information but that is very different from their being a worldwide conspiracy.

You think a politician doing what’s best for his or her political party is a conspiracy theory?

prunudo

No conspiracy, just a lack of leadership and assertiveness from our government. They have been dithering with mixed signals for months.
As another poster commented, Leo had the easy task when it was a simple lock down, we're all in this together. Then he opened some sectors up and he was the good guy. Now we have MM who has been shockingly poor since taking office.
The new crew are like rabbits in the headlights.

mikekerry

prunudo wrote: »

No conspiracy, just a lack of leadership and assertiveness from our government. They have been dithering with mixed signals for months.
As another poster commented, Leo had the easy task when it was a simple lock down, we're all in this together. Then he opened some sectors up and he was the good guy. Now we have MM who has been shockingly poor since taking office.
The new crew are like rabbits in the headlights.

Part of the problem is that the government seem to be just taking advice from a medical body whose default status is to be conservative without factoring in any of the economic fallout ( as well as medical with mental illness etc) resulting from their actions ( or lack of) resulting in this oncoming sh**storm.

bucketybuck

Leroy42 wrote: »

Are some posters really of the opinion that the government and medical professionals are deliberately making the wrong decisions

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity"

I think that the government are making poor decisions and then also communicating and implementing those decisions cackhandedly. A bad combination.

CalamariFritti

Thierry12 wrote: »

Opening schools lol

You seem a smart guy hmmm

School openings are doomed

I'd give it 1 maybe 3 days max before we have a school all over the media thats been infected

10 teachers, 80 students in quarantine will be the headline and it will happen in so many schools its going to be laughable

Id have to agree with that. We've talked ourselves into such a state of fear and anxiety as a country there will be no easy way out of this and it will become a bigger problem than the virus itself.

Now we're making such a hullabaloo over everything with mistimed lip service actions and stupid little micromanagement rules that it will only take a sneeze and the whole house of cards will be coming down. Which is exactly what's going to happen in the schools. I don't even give it three days.

Ginger n Lemon

Leroy42 wrote: »

Are some posters really of the opinion that the government and medical professionals are deliberately making the wrong decisions and that their plan is to cripple the economy so some unknown reason?

And that all other governments around the world are doing the same, at the same time?

Was this a coordinated effort? So a plan hatched by China and involving the EU, UK, US and everywhere?

Spanish tourism is down 97.7%, just to get control and force people to wear masks?

And they are doing all this despite the very clear link between countries evonomies and elections?

That Trump, for example, has placed his own reelection in doubt for this master plan?

As conspiracy theories go, that is the daddy.

But I suppose it is easier to lash out at everyone, somebody must be to blame than to look at the reality that, at least in the short term, our previous way of life has been altered and we need to adapt.

None of that is to say that wrong decisions are not being made, this is unprecedented in our life times and all decisions are being made without complete information but that is very different from their being a worldwide conspiracy.

You need to wake up and smell the coffee. Do you really think Germany, Czech republic, Denmark, Norway, France had unemployment of 28% in April, 26% in May, 22% in June?? Stop saying "all other governments are doing the same".... seriously whats wrong with you? We are the only EU country to have pubs closed. CLOSED. its 5th of AUGUST NOW. The only country!!!!!!......

2nd off, stop saying short term. You clearly dont own a business and never ran one. Businesses in Ireland are being told to stay shut. But thats okay cus they can avail of fantastic loans at low or no interest rates from Leo's great loan scheme etc. The issue is, if you were working, and I told you to stop working for a year - but dont worry instead of ur salary you can take on a loan that has to be repaid within 2 - 3 years... please give me your reaction?? What would you say?

Pub owners have been forced to take on more debt every single month, for 6 months now. You arent naive enough thinking that their landlord called down and said "dont pay me rent, maybe just half of rent will do" ? Although given how supportive you seem to be of this govt and other govts you may just be.

paw patrol

They can't just end the restrictions. They need to crank up and drag out the seriousness of Covid19.


Why?
They need to justify the previous over-hype and absolute panic they created with the lock-downs that dragged into June and onward when there was no justification for continuing it. because that bill is still outstanding.



You may argue but 1700 died , it was serious...and they did die.


Which leads me to the second reason ...Much of that dead was in the nursing homes (62% of covid deaths was a stat I saw on newstalk) a congregation of highly vulnerable people that the HSE made an absolute bags of protecting.
If they drop all the panic now and say back to normal- people will rightly ask questions on the nursing homes and the state is on the hook for that.


anyway I think we aren't run by fools but really sly individuals (as pointed out earlier are mostly career politicians) with little concept of life outside leinster house or the civil service.

bucketybuck

The government should take a tip from the business world regarding targets.

If you set a target, your staff meet it but then you say that the target was actually something else, then that target not only stops motivating staff it actually demotivates them to perform worse than normal.

First they say its all about flattening the curve, then when the curve is well and truly flattened to the point where ICU wards are empty and deaths are rare, then the cheerleaders start saying it is about getting the kids back to school safely.

I've always said the kids education is vital but shifting focus to schools now is shifting the ****ing goalposts and you know it.

paw patrol

I have emailed all my TDs this morning- 3 of the 5 are in government parties. It's time everybody here did the same and encouraged their peers to do likewise.


Also I'll commit to attending any anti lockdown protest (regardless of organiser) cos it's that serious

gmisk

paw patrol wrote: »

I have emailed to all my TDs this morning- 3 of the 5 are in government parties. It's time everybody here did the same and encouraged their peers to do likewise.


Also I'll commit to attending any anti lockdown protest (regardless of organiser) cos it's that serious

Contacting TDs makes the most sense if you want to be heard.

But your other way to help is to go to a protest with a group of people....seriously?....that will really help...

You will also be lumping yourself in with some "characters".

And, if you don’t like the guidelines which aim to safeguard the general population, then take your party across the border! https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40027385.html