Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

Assetbacked

I want to see civil servants in the ministerial departments, specifically the high ranking ones, to start to be told that they are looking at cutting the departmental budgets as it is unsustainable to continue to pay full salaries while tax revenues are down and that the borrowing cannot be to pay civil servant salaries but must be used to fund new infrastructure projects and other ventures to stimulate the economy. I get the feeling there are a lot of people on a very cushy number the last few months in positions where they are working on the advisory briefings for the relevant departments. There is just a severe lack of urgency and ignorance to getting the economy going again, an approach which is contradictory to the data.

average_runner

Assetbacked wrote: »

I want to see civil servants in the ministerial departments, specifically the high ranking ones, to start to be told that they are looking at cutting the departmental budgets as it is unsustainable to continue to pay full salaries while tax revenues are down and that the borrowing cannot be to pay civil servant salaries but must be used to fund new infrastructure projects and other ventures to stimulate the economy. I get the feeling there are a lot of people on a very cushy number the last few months in positions where they are working on the advisory briefings for the relevant departments. There is just a severe lack of urgency and ignorance to getting the economy going again, an approach which is contradictory to the data.

Cut the civil servant wage and there be less money to spend in the economy

Assetbacked

average_runner wrote: »

Cut the civil servant wage and there be less money to spend in the economy

How so? The borrowing is for the purpose of funding economic recovery.

bucketybuck

Deleted User wrote: »

And, if you don’t like the guidelines which aim to safeguard the general population, then take your party across the border! https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40027385.html

A perfect example of what happens when a dithering government poorly communicates its plans.

None of this works without buy in from the general public, and if you balls up the message then you lose that buy in and general public starts not only ignoring the message but often actively working against it.

Ginger n Lemon

paw patrol wrote: »

I have emailed to all my TDs this morning- 3 of the 5 are in government parties. It's time everybody here did the same and encouraged their peers to do likewise.


Also I'll commit to attending any anti lockdown protest (regardless of organiser) cos it's that serious

Me too. And I think the very fact that we, the great people of boards.ie talk about that now just shows how bad things got.

As I said before, school pupils dont go to pubs and pub drinkers dont go to school...... Keeping pubs shut with the excuse of "lets focus on schools" is idiotic beyond belief.

hawkwing

Was watching the golf 2 weeks ago and Jack Nicklaus said he had covid and got a sore throat for 2 days but that was it,his wife got tested and was positive but she didn't know she had it at all.He is 80. Skysports didn't really know what to say and probably wished he said it was a lot worse.I din't see it mentioned on RTE!

The Belly

paw patrol wrote: »

They can't just end the restrictions. They need to crank up and drag out the seriousness of Covid19.


Why?
They need to justify the previous over-hype and absolute panic they created with the lock-downs that dragged into June and onward when there was no justification for continuing it. because that bill is still outstanding.



You may argue but 1700 died , it was serious...and they did die.


Which leads me to the second reason ...Much of that dead was in the nursing homes (62% of covid deaths was a stat I saw on newstalk) a congregation of highly vulnerable people that the HSE made an absolute bags of protecting.
If they drop all the panic now and say back to normal- people will rightly ask questions on the nursing homes and the state is on the hook for that.


anyway I think we aren't run by fools but really sly individuals (as pointed out earlier are mostly career politicians) with little concept of life outside leinster house or the civil service.

I wonder what the plans would look like now if all of the TD's and Medical advisors were forced onto the 350 per week with everyone else over the last 4-5 months.

amadangomor

Zero joined up thinking we have from G and L and Hawkeye here. Couldn't be arsed responding with logic, methinks it will be a complete waste of time.

Think time to leave this here as the anti-lockdown whingefest thread and let them vent.

Allinall

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Me too. And I think the very fact that we, the great people of boards.ie talk about that now just shows how bad things got.

As I said before, school pupils dont go to pubs and pub drinkers dont go to school...... Keeping pubs shut with the excuse of "lets focus on schools" is idiotic beyond belief.

You're missing the point that school pupils mix with pub goers.

That's how the virus spreads.

Leroy42

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

You need to wake up and smell the coffee. Do you really think Germany, Czech republic, Denmark, Norway, France had unemployment of 28% in April, 26% in May, 22% in June?? Stop saying "all other governments are doing the same".... seriously whats wrong with you? We are the only EU country to have pubs closed. CLOSED. its 5th of AUGUST NOW. The only country!!!!!!......

2nd off, stop saying short term. You clearly dont own a business and never ran one. Businesses in Ireland are being told to stay shut. But thats okay cus they can avail of fantastic loans at low or no interest rates from Leo's great loan scheme etc. The issue is, if you were working, and I told you to stop working for a year - but dont worry instead of ur salary you can take on a loan that has to be repaid within 2 - 3 years... please give me your reaction?? What would you say?

Pub owners have been forced to take on more debt every single month, for 6 months now. You aren't naive enough thinking that their landlord called down and said "dont pay me rent, maybe just half of rent will do" ? Although given how supportive you seem to be of this govt and other govts you may just be.

I said as you quoted, 'at least in the short term'. You do understand that that doesn't rule out the medium or long term, don't you? The only thing we can be 100% certain of is the short term since this is an ever changing situation.

A large part of the economy is back again, albeit in very different guise and facing very different trading conditions.

But my question was not about the economy, it was about whether people actually believe that the government, and governments around the world, are doing all this on purpose.

You actually believe that MM was shown evidence that opening pubs would have no negative effects but decided that keeping them closed, with the economic hit, the societal hit, the anger etc from both the public and the publicans, was worth it? For what?

It is widely known that many TD's have interests in pubs (check out the MUP thread for plenty of evidence of that) but on this occassion they are forgetting all that and actively putting their own investements at risk for some unknown plan to control the population?

Easy win for MM would be to reopen the pubs, blame Leo for being too conversative. MM becomes the saviour and is carried shoulder high through the next few elections. But no, he has decided to piss everyone off!

Ginger n Lemon

Allinall wrote: »

You're missing the point that school pupils mix with pub goers.

That's how the virus spreads.

Do you ever get tired? And if I tell you how does any of that matter if none go to hospital or a nursing home - you ll tell me pub goers, school pupils mix with healthcare workers? Truly pathetic.

Ginger n Lemon

Leroy42 wrote: »

I said as you quoted, 'at least in the short term'. You do understand that that doesn't rule out the medium or long term, don't you? The only thing we can be 100% certain of is the short term since this is an ever changing situation.

A large part of the economy is back again, albeit in very different guise and facing very different trading conditions.

But my question was not about the economy, it was about whether people actually believe that the government, and governments around the world, are doing all this on purpose.

You actually believe that MM was shown evidence that opening pubs would have no negative effects but decided that keeping them closed, with the economic hit, the societal hit, the anger etc from both the public and the publicans, was worth it? For what?

It is widely known that many TD's have interests in pubs (check out the MUP thread for plenty of evidence of that) but on this occassion they are forgetting all that and actively putting their own investements at risk for some unknown plan to control the population?

Easy win for MM would be to reopen the pubs, blame Leo for being too conversative. MM becomes the saviour and is carried shoulder high through the next few elections. But no, he has decided to piss everyone off!

Yes. And we are very much fked before you start asking questions about the economy.

At which stage it will be too late.

Allinall

hawkwing wrote: »

Was watching the golf 2 weeks ago and Jack Nicklaus said he had covid and got a sore throat for 2 days but that was it,his wife got tested and was positive but she didn't know she had it at all.He is 80. Skysports didn't really know what to say and probably wished he said it was a lot worse.I din't see it mentioned on RTE!

I was watching the football a few months ago, and Pep Guardiola said that sadly his mother had died from Cornavirus.

Leroy42

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Me too. And I think the very fact that we, the great people of boards.ie talk about that now just shows how bad things got.

As I said before, school pupils dont go to pubs and pub drinkers dont go to school...... Keeping pubs shut with the excuse of "lets focus on schools" is idiotic beyond belief.

So are you going to limit the pubs being open only to people without children? What about if they have elderly parents? Or friends in at risks groups? Will teachers be allowed into pubs?

paw patrol

gmisk wrote: »

Contacting TDs makes the most sense if you want to be heard.

But your other way to help is to go to a protest with a group of people....seriously?....that will really help...

I have no other avenue bar my polite emails.
protests have worked in the past - messages boards like this can be ignored but feet on the street makes the news.
I'd rather be elsewhere than at a protest tbh but I've never felt so powerless and detached from my own agency in my life and it's for reasons I very much disagree with .Also I'm fearful that the bill still needs to be paid and that we will see another generation emigrate like 10-12years ago

gmisk wrote: »

You will also be lumping yourself in with some "characters".

yeah probably but sometimes a single issue can make strange bedfellows.
I'm sure it'll be a weird one - hopefully some regular people organise like the vintners

The Belly

average_runner wrote: »

Cut the civil servant wage and there be less money to spend in the economy

No problem cut the salaries above 60k and have a look at pensions lump sums and AVC's.

That's where most of the disposable income goes.

A targeted emergency cut on those that can afford it to help fund those that cant within the PS itself They can call it a public sector solidarity emergency measure.

Even mention stuff on the MSM like that and you will see the true meaning of we are all in this together.

yawhat?

So keeping pubs, niteclubs and casinos closed is wrecking the economy? As a result a few lunatics here are committing to raise their pitchforks and attend any “anti lockdown” protests that are organised. Hysterical nonsense. Do any of you interact with real people? The views being expressed here are reflective of only the tiniest minority of the general population. I would guess that in the majority of cases you are using your nonsense and rage to deflect from your own perceived personal inadequacies. Your time would be better spend dealing with these perceptions of yourself. You will find that your worth in far greater than you believe. I do wish you well.

gmisk

paw patrol wrote: »

I have no other avenue bar my polite emails.

protests have worked in the past - messages boards like this can be ignored but feet on the street makes the news.


I'd rather be elsewhere than at a protest tbh but I've never felt so powerless and detached from my own agency in my life and it's for reasons I very much disagree with .Also I'm fearful that the bill still needs to be paid and that we will see another generation emigrate like 10-12years ago




yeah probably but sometimes a single issue can make strange bedfellows.
I'm sure it'll be a weird one - hopefully some regular people organise like the vintners

So what is your email saying?
What do you want to happen exactly? Pubs to be re-opened with restrictions I am guessing but what else? Clubs? (How has that worked in other countries?)

There is strange and there is STRANGE...

rob316

They didn't even give the pubs a chance. There is a world of difference between a rural pub and a super pub in the city centre.

Schools are no.1 priority yes but it doesn't sit right with me, that an entire industry is been held up as the scapegoat for cases rising when its not even open.

They could of given them something, phased opening hours atleast.

Ginger n Lemon

yawhat? wrote: »

So keeping pubs, niteclubs and casinos closed is wrecking the economy? As a result a few lunatics here are committing to raise their pitchforks and attend any “anti lockdown” protests that are organised. Hysterical nonsense. Do any of you interact with real people? The views being expressed here are reflective of only the tiniest minority of the general population. I would guess that in the majority of cases you are using your nonsense and rage to deflect from your own perceived personal inadequacies. Your time would be better spend dealing with these perceptions of yourself. You will find that your worth in far greater than you believe. I do wish you well.

The irony.

I suppose you havent learned yet that over the last 7 days 1 person died with covid in our country.

average_runner

rob316 wrote: »

They didn't even give the pubs a chance. There is a world of difference between a rural pub and a super pub in the city centre.

Schools are no.1 priority yes but it doesn't sit right with me, that an entire industry is been held up as the scapegoat for cases rising when its not even open.

They could of given them something, phased opening hours atleast.

Majority of the pubs where I live are open and alot in South Dublin also

Allinall

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Do you ever get tired? And if I tell you how does any of that matter if none go to hospital or a nursing home - you ll tell me pub goers, school pupils mix with healthcare workers? Truly pathetic.

Of course they do.

Do you really think pub goers and healthcare workers don't have children?

What is pathetic is the lack of understanding of this virus.

bucketybuck

rob316 wrote: »

They could of given them something, phased opening hours atleast.

Or at least have the balls to come out and say that they cannot reopen at all. At least then businesses could start making some decisions.

This kicking the can down the road is cowardly and pathetic, absolutely terrible leadership on display.

Ginger n Lemon

Allinall wrote: »

Of course they do.

Do you really think pub goers and healthcare workers don't have children?

What is pathetic is the lack of understanding of this virus.

So why dont we just tell pubs to liquidate?

Surely you dont think that covid will magically disappear over the next 6 - 12 months?

average_runner

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

The irony.

I suppose you havent learned yet that over the last 7 days 1 person died with covid in our country.

Clubs are not open in Denmark either.


The one person dying is a result of the low numbers 4 weeks ago, next 2-4 weeks will show the amount of deaths for this rise.


Considering most cases are outside Dublin lately, it seems to be spreading around the country.

average_runner

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

So why dont we just tell pubs to liquidate?

Surely you dont think that covid will magically disappear over the next 6 - 12 months?

Most in the city are open

Ginger n Lemon

gmisk wrote: »

So what is your email saying?
What do you want to happen exactly? Pubs to be re-opened with restrictions I am guessing but what else? Clubs? (How has that worked in other countries?)

There is strange and there is STRANGE...

1 person has died with covid over the last 7 days. With covid. We've kept over 25,000 people sitting at home, and told them to stay home for 3 more weeks.

Country of public health advice.

gmisk

yawhat? wrote: »

So keeping pubs, niteclubs and casinos closed is wrecking the economy? As a result a few lunatics here are committing to raise their pitchforks and attend any “anti lockdown” protests that are organised. Hysterical nonsense. Do any of you interact with real people? The views being expressed here are reflective of only the tiniest minority of the general population. I would guess that in the majority of cases you are using your nonsense and rage to deflect from your own perceived personal inadequacies. Your time would be better spend dealing with these perceptions of yourself. You will find that your worth in far greater than you believe. I do wish you well.

I think you are being a little harsh but I know what you mean....

I think people are frustrated....but there aren't any real easy solutions....alright MM could have opened the pubs....what else could he do massively differently now that is going to help Ireland economically at least? Would masks help, they could do and should have been brought in ages ago imo, but then again there are a significant group of people on here who refer to them as muzzles and others making it clear they won't wear them.

I have been working at home since March...people are going a tad stir crazy imo, which isn't helping.

Thankfully I don't think some of the opinions on boards.ie are really reflective of the majority of people in the real world.

average_runner

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

1 person has died with covid over the last 7 days. With covid. We've kept over 25,000 people sitting at home, and told them to stay home for 3 more weeks.

Country of public health advice.

Why don't you look at the facts.


The pubs that are open are not packed, most of the staff are not going back.


When the rest do open, it will be at a limited capacity and these will not have all the staff back either.


Temple bar pubs all serve food but aren't open out of their own choice, mainly because demand is not there for it, people don't want to go near the city.

stephenjmcd

paw patrol wrote: »

I have emailed all my TDs this morning- 3 of the 5 are in government parties. It's time everybody here did the same and encouraged their peers to do likewise.


Also I'll commit to attending any anti lockdown protest (regardless of organiser) cos it's that serious

I've done the same and admittedly the TD in the neighbouring constituency a few minutes up the road is the health minister.

Anyway 1 reply so far and its the bog standard, NPHETs advice, schools etc. The same as what was said in the press conference earlier. I'm sure once the schools reopen something else will come up not to enter phase 4.

Be hard pushed to get any of them to deviate from that I'd say.

The thing that annoyed me the most was the outdoor crowds staying at 200 and thats what my email centered around with a mention of supports now for businesses that remain closed and not supports when they reopen because without help now they won't reopen further down the line.

With regards to protest, I wouldn't attend, simply because I don't see the point in breaking the mass gathering restrictions it just gives them the stick to extend restrictions.