Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

Rrrrrr2

Interesting to see the economic argument at last be factored in proportionally. For once Donohoe spoke up and called a halt to this madness saying we simply can’t afford it.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/relationship-between-government-and-nphet-changed-forever-as-ministers-blindsided-by-health-experts-meeting-39592752.html

Mentions it would be more difficult to access ECB and bond market funding which is ominous

polesheep

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

Listening to the radio this morning there are a lot of people not too happy that we haven't gone to level 5 so I would be careful to claim "the people" are saying we have enough - some who are ignorant, selfish or simply dont understand the seriousness of the virus spreading are but people with an understanding of the situation know full well restrictions are necessary and more restrictions than level 3 will likely be required sooner or later.

I'm a FG voter and a big fan of Leo in general but not too happy with his interview last night if Im honest.

Yep and they are all on PS salaries or cushy pensions. The irony is that one of the big reasons why we aren't going to level 5 is to be able to pay those salaries and pensions.

Rrrrrr2

RoryMac wrote: »

Kenny was waffling on yesterday asking for kids not wearing masks on their way home from school to be rounded up in paddy wagons, he has been asking for a curfew to be introduced for the last few weeks.

He has completely lost the plot on this and even Luke O'Neill has to try rein him in most mornings

Kenny used to be such a sensible man. He has allowed his own age to completely colour his analysis on Covid 19

Rrrrrr2

polesheep wrote: »

Yep and they are all on PS salaries or cushy pensions. The irony is that one of the big reasons why we aren't going to level 5 is to be able to pay those salaries and pensions.

Sounds like it’s the principle reason- we can’t afford it. Simple as that now

Whatsisname

average_runner wrote: »

Not at all costs and remember after the last pandemic we had a boom

Has everyone forgotton we've had 3 pandemics since the Spanish Flu?

hans aus dtschl

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

Interesting to see the economic argument at last be factored in proportionally. For once Donohoe spoke up and called a halt to this madness saying we simply can’t afford it.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/relationship-between-government-and-nphet-changed-forever-as-ministers-blindsided-by-health-experts-meeting-39592752.html

Mentions it would be more difficult to access ECB and bond market funding which is ominous

According to NPHET's statistical modelling we'll get level 5 regardless in a few weeks time, and it will last longer than it would have, had we implemented it now.

So it's very much a case of "one of these two is right" between NPHET and government.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

Kenny used to be such a sensible man. He has allowed his own age to completely colour his analysis on Covid 19

He just falls into the same category as the people introducing lockdowns, rich old men with everything paid for and huge pensions. Lockdown's don't affect these people...really. Their blinkered view is just about keeping cases down, not actually being able to go and work and enjoying the small things in life.

polesheep

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

Interesting to see the economic argument at last be factored in proportionally. For once Donohoe spoke up and called a halt to this madness saying we simply can’t afford it.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/relationship-between-government-and-nphet-changed-forever-as-ministers-blindsided-by-health-experts-meeting-39592752.html

Mentions it would be more difficult to access ECB and bond market funding which is ominous

When you read that article you wonder how Holohan can still be in his job this morning.

Rrrrrr2

polesheep wrote: »

When you read that article you wonder how Holohan can still be in his job this morning.

Hopefully he’ll go himself but these guys have such a neck and arrogance it’s virtually impossible to shift them. In any other sector if you pulled the stunt he did Sunday night you would be gone

FintanMcluskey

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

Sounds like it’s the principle reason- we can’t afford it. Simple as that now

Absolutely cant afford it.

They cant afford level 3.

Ireland already has one of the worst job losses in Europe while having the best natural defense against Covid of the whole of Europe.

NPHET really screwed Ireland over, and the sooner those who cant see that have a road to Damascus moment the better

RoryMac

Zebra3 wrote: »

And what did Varadkar do after the GE? He made MM taoiseach.

Politically that was a masterstroke, Leo was in charge when the easy decisions on this had to be made, the initial lockdown was the right thing to do at the time when there was so much uncertainty about the virus.

But now that the tougher decisions have to be made weighing up protecting against the virus with trying to save the economy MM is fluffing about afraid of making the wrong move while Leo has the freedom to bide his time, read the mood of the situation and give well scripted speeches making him look like someone who can control the situation.

I'm not a big fan of Leo but he has played this very well and when he's due to take over in 1.5 years the country should be getting back on it's feet and he'll be there to take the credit

RoryMac

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

Kenny used to be such a sensible man. He has allowed his own age to completely colour his analysis on Covid 19

yeah I'm a fan of his on everything else but this, he refuses to even listen to any countering opinion and is only short of demanding we go full out Wuhan style and have people locked in their houses until this passes.

average_runner

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

According to NPHET's statistical modelling we'll get level 5 regardless in a few weeks time, and it will last longer than it would have, had we implemented it now.

So it's very much a case of "one of these two is right" between NPHET and government.

Things like below won't help


"A gaa player waiting on a covid test result, plays a match and test result comes back positive"

acequion

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

Listening to the radio this morning there are a lot of people not too happy that we haven't gone to level 5 so I would be careful to claim "the people" are saying we have enough - some who are ignorant, selfish or simply dont understand the seriousness of the virus spreading are but people with an understanding of the situation know full well restrictions are necessary and more restrictions than level 3 will likely be required sooner or later.

I'm a FG voter and a big fan of Leo in general but not too happy with his interview last night if Im honest.

No wonder I disagree with you so much. Because I'm no FG supporter but I quite like Leo and really commend him for his honesty last night. What is it with the Irish that we seem to hate anyone deviating from the script! A bit of blunt honesty that nations like the French engage in all the time can be refreshing and clear. Not the constant ambiguity which constantly muddies the waters here. Like I say I'm no FG fan but I really feel that they were handling this crisis reasonably well and things might have gone better without the change of Govt in the middle of it.

For me, it was great to finally hear the government acknowledging the economy and how bad things are. They really need to shout this louder and louder each day. Let people know how desperate the situation is becoming and see how much support there actually is for another lockdown then.

It’s a little bit sad that Claire Byrne and lots of our population act shocked/outraged that we need to prioritise the economy.

The quality of all our lives depends on a strong economy.

OldRio

The playing of the General Population by Politicians during the last 36 hours is utterly sickening. A Global pandemic is in our midst and some have prioritised they own selfish agendas.

John_Rambo

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

Listening to the radio this morning there are a lot of people not too happy that we haven't gone to level 5 so I would be careful to claim "the people" are saying we have enough - some who are ignorant, selfish or simply dont understand the seriousness of the virus spreading are but people with an understanding of the situation know full well restrictions are necessary and more restrictions than level 3 will likely be required sooner or later.

I'm a FG voter and a big fan of Leo in general but not too happy with his interview last night if Im honest.

We can't let the academics make decisions, they've no real practical relevance and only one narrow remit and are there to advice on health matters only. The government governs and has to take in to consideration education, employment and other important things. A lot of politicians have real life experience in business and other professions and are better suited to make decisions like this.

Jizique

acequion wrote: »

No wonder I disagree with you so much. Because I'm no FG supporter but I quite like Leo and really commend him for his honesty last night. What is it with the Irish that we seem to hate anyone deviating from the script! A bit of blunt honesty that nations like the French engage in all the time can be refreshing and clear. Not the constant ambiguity which constantly muddies the waters here. Like I say I'm no FG fan but I really feel that they were handling this crisis reasonably well and things might have gone better without the change of Govt in the middle of it.

It seems to be an Irish trait - nobody likes straight talking, prefer a bit of plámás and then plenty of bitching down the pub later

Stormyteacup

OldRio wrote: »

The playing of the General Population by Politicians during the last 36 hours is utterly sickening. A Global pandemic is in our midst and some have prioritised they own selfish agendas.

Politics, restriction levels, virtue signalling and blaming need to take a back seat now.

Time we took agendas and emotions out this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rz_Z7Gf1aRE

Already posted but not enough times. This should be shown on RTÉ 6pm & 9pm news.

Those who advocate ‘locking down’ a society by asking the middle classes to work from home on full salary while the lowest paid are thrown to the wolves, regardless of their age, need a good hard look at themselves. Time to wind down the hero complex these good citizens have developed.

A lot of very well argued points in that interview. We are greatly, and possibly irrevocably, damaging those already at a disadvantage - economically, mentally and medically.

All that money wasted when we could have been highlighting those most at risk and putting those billions into safeguarding them properly.
It should compulsory viewing.

The science of herd immunity is completely sound.

We need to be educated about what it actually means, for this and any future pandemic

hynesie08

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

Listening to the radio this morning there are a lot of people not too happy that we haven't gone to level 5 so I would be careful to claim "the people" are saying we have enough - some who are ignorant, selfish or simply dont understand the seriousness of the virus spreading are but people with an understanding of the situation know full well restrictions are necessary and more restrictions than level 3 will likely be required sooner or later.

I'm a FG voter and a big fan of Leo in general but not too happy with his interview last night if Im honest.

Ah yes, morning radio, that well known microcosm of public opinion, very much has its finger on the pulse of the nations opinion.

Adrian Kennedy for Lord mayor of Dublin, Niall Boylan for president, that's what Ireland needs....

crossman47

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

Hopefully he’ll go himself but these guys have such a neck and arrogance it’s virtually impossible to shift them. In any other sector if you pulled the stunt he did Sunday night you would be gone

What stunt? He gave advice on medical grounds. The Government decided not to accept it as is their right. It would be a bad scene if medical advisers moderated their views to accommodate politicians. Just look at the US where Trump listens to no advice.

polesheep

Deleted User wrote: »

For me, it was great to finally hear the government acknowledging the economy and how bad things are. They really need to shout this louder and louder each day. Let people know how desperate the situation is becoming and see how much support there actually is for another lockdown then.

It’s a little bit sad that Claire Byrne and lots of our population act shocked/outraged that we need to prioritise the economy.

The quality of all our lives depends on a strong economy.

Sad but not surprising when you consider that most of them receive income rather than generate it.

polesheep

OldRio wrote: »

The playing of the General Population by Politicians during the last 36 hours is utterly sickening. A Global pandemic is in our midst and some have prioritised they own selfish agendas.

By wanting everyone locked down.

bucketybuck

crossman47 wrote: »

What stunt? He gave advice on medical grounds. The Government decided not to accept it as is their right. It would be a bad scene if medical advisers moderated their views to accommodate politicians. Just look at the US where Trump listens to no advice.

You don't think it a stunt that the whole ****ing country knew about Tonys letter before the government did?

Like I said in another thread, if I was getting advice from a friend I would be pretty pissed to find that they had been telling it to everybody in the local pub first.

crossman47

bucketybuck wrote: »

You don't think it a stunt that the whole ****ing country knew about Tonys letter before the government did?

If you believe that, you'll believe anything. This government leaks like a sieve. Leak it and then show everyone how strong we are.

Irish Aris

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

According to NPHET's statistical modelling we'll get level 5 regardless in a few weeks time, and it will last longer than it would have, had we implemented it now.

So it's very much a case of "one of these two is right" between NPHET and government.

Not sure about that.
I think NPHET and Government have different point of views.

NPHET sees things from the somewhat narrower prism of health and safety and based on that they are probably right to recommend a level 5.
The government, on the other hand, have to consider other elements of everyday life in Ireland, including the financial aspect. And in this instance they decided that they will ignore the NPHET recommendation. Nothing to back it up, but I would guess (as many others) that money are running low.

And I think this will be a repeated pattern, not just in Ireland but in other countries. I just came back from 10 days in Greece (I am from there and visited my family) and the situation is quite similar: the equivalent of NPHET pounds the alarm on a daily basis that Greece needs to go to a lockdown again but the messaging that comes out for the government is that the country isn't anywhere near a lockdown and they pull every restriction trick out of the hat instead - reading between the lines I understood that Greece is in a very similar position as Ireland: rather poor public health system and lack of funds, and they just try to find a balance.

There were 2 things that intrigued me from last night's events:
1. For the first time the government completely ignored NPHETs recommendation. It will be very interesting to see what will happen if things don't improve in the next 3 weeks and NPHET recommends again level 5.
2. There were a couple of reports last night where HSE claimed that they haven't been consulted on the issue of capacity. Not sure if this was ever confirmed, if true though it shows that there is a disconnect between the 3 sides (NPHET, HSE and government) and, in my opinion, doesn't reflect very well on NPHET.

froog

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

According to NPHET's statistical modelling we'll get level 5 regardless in a few weeks time, and it will last longer than it would have, had we implemented it now.

So it's very much a case of "one of these two is right" between NPHET and government.

in fairness donnelly for once made a good point. NPHETs models assume no change with current levels of control and compliance in place and with cases rising at the rate they have been. of course things will be bad if we continue as is. but we have higher restrictions now and hopefully more compliance after a good national kick up the hole the last few days. but who knows, there's an awful lot of selfish pricks in this country right now.

polesheep

Irish Aris wrote: »

Not sure about that.
I think NPHET and Government have different point of views.

NPHET sees things from the somewhat narrower prism of health and safety and based on that they are probably right to recommend a level 5.
The government, on the other hand, have to consider other elements of everyday life in Ireland, including the financial aspect. And in this instance they decided that they will ignore the NPHET recommendation. Nothing to back it up, but I would guess (as many others) that money are running low.

And I think this will be a repeated pattern, not just in Ireland but in other countries. I just came back from 10 days in Greece (I am from there and visited my family) and the situation is quite similar: the equivalent of NPHET pounds the alarm on a daily basis that Greece needs to go to a lockdown again but the messaging that comes out for the government is that the country isn't anywhere near a lockdown and they pull every restriction trick out of the hat instead - reading between the lines I understood that Greece is in a very similar position as Ireland: rather poor public health system and lack of funds, and they just try to find a balance.

There were 2 things that intrigued me from last night's events:
1. For the first time the government completely ignored NPHETs recommendation. It will be very interesting to see what will happen if things don't improve in the next 3 weeks and NPHET recommends again level 5.
2. There were a couple of reports last night where HSE claimed that they haven't been consulted on the issue of capacity. Not sure if this was ever confirmed, if true, it shows that there is a disconnect between the 3 sides (NPHET, HSE and government) and, in my opinion, doesn't reflect very well on NPHET.

Doctor Martin Feeley was forced to resign for speaking contrary to the HSE. Therefore, without hesitation, the HSE should be requesting the resignation of those members of NPHET employed by the HSE, for going against the HSE. Once Paul Reid denied what they said, they should have been gone. The same standards should apply to all.

walus

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

According to NPHET's statistical modelling we'll get level 5 regardless in a few weeks time, and it will last longer than it would have, had we implemented it now.

So it's very much a case of "one of these two is right" between NPHET and government.

That is because they are fixated with the R0 factor. Instead they should be looking at the "k" factor - virus dispersion. They modelling is wrong and it will be proven that even a low level of restrictions and backward tracing (not forward) is sufficient to control the virus. It so transpires that 20% of cases are responsible for 80% of transmissions. Look at Sweden. Why are they now having a "second" wave (btw - there is no such thing as second wave)? Surely not because their health system is better...

OldRio

polesheep wrote: »

By wanting everyone locked down.

and you have been played.