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Schools and Concerns

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    #32
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    I wasn't asking anyone to provide options. It just seemed a bit insensitive to completely dismiss the difficult situation some find themselves in. And petty comments like, deal with it, or move out, completely miss the mark.

    But this is the reality of life now. Children who for whatever reason won't be able to go to school will have to be schooled at home. And if a living situation is one reason they can't go to school changing the living situation is the choice to be considered. Facts are not insensitive.


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    #33
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    lazygal wrote: »
    But this is the reality of life now. Children who for whatever reason won't be able to go to school will have to be schooled at home. And if a living situation is one reason they can't go to school changing the living situation is the choice to be considered. Facts are not insensitive.

    The issue isn't a "matter of fact" lazygal. It is the tone and presentation of the comments that are insensitive as you are refusing to acknowledge why someone is in the position they are in, in the first place. Again, neither of those options are options, when it is not possible to act on them.


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    #34
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    The issue isn't a "matter of fact" lazygal. It is the tone and presentation of the comments that are insensitive as you are refusing to acknowledge why someone is in the position they are in, in the first place. Again, neither of those options are options, when it is not possible to act on them.

    You are personaling comments needlessly.
    You are the one who's said your living situation is a reason for concern about your child attending school. Getting annoyed with people pointing out the fact that we're in a global pandemic is a reason why all of us have had to make changes to our lives, big and small, makes zero sense.


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    #35
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    lazygal wrote: »
    You are personaling comments needlessly.
    You are the one who's said your living situation is a reason for concern about your child attending school. Getting annoyed with people pointing out the fact that we're in a global pandemic is a reason why all of us have had to make changes to our lives, big and small, makes zero sense.

    I'm not personalising it at all. I haven't said that either, I was supporting someone elses position that was being dismissed. I've done nothing to refute the global impact of the pandemic and if you saw comments from me elsewhere on it, you'd know that. I'm very well aware of the difficulty that is going to exist for some time to come. But if someone is in a position where they're living situation is based on economics, they aren't going to be able to change it so "factually." And to push it as an option makes zero sense.


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    #36
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    What do you want people to say though?
    Your living situation is affecting your child's ability to attend school.


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    #37
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    lazygal wrote: »
    What do you want people to say though?
    Your living situation is affecting your child's ability to attend school.

    It isn't. I never said it would.


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    #38
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    It isn't. I never said it would.

    So why bring up your living situation then, when it's completely irrelevant to the topic at hand.


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    #39
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    lazygal wrote: »
    So why bring up your living situation then, when it's completely irrelevant to the topic at hand.

    Because I was being sympathetic and recongising the position another poster was in, that was being dismissed.


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    #40
    Uncle Pierre
    Registered Users Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭Uncle Pierre


    If I may......I think in fairness that they really are the options. For anybody in that situation, you either have to:

    - send the kids to school, and accept the risk
    - move to live somewhere else
    - somehow home school the kids instead of sending them to school, or
    - not educate them at all.

    I honestly can't think of any other alternative. Granted, none of them are attractive, and one or two of them might not even be feasible (e.g. moving somewhere else, if you can't afford it). But that doesn't mean you can avoid having to make a choice between them, and therefore they're the only options you have.

    For what it's worth, our own lad is aged 6, and will be starting 1st Class. All we can do is trust the school does all it can, and hope for the best. All four grandparents are still living, but one of them is in a vulnerable group, so we've already had to reluctantly decide that he won't be able to visit there for at least a while after he returns to school.

    We don't know yet what we'll do when the inevitable outbreaks of ordinary colds or even flu start going round later in the year. Our options will be to send him to school and hope none of the illnesses are Covid 19, or not send him to school at all, as a precaution. Again, neither of them particularly attractive, but they'll be the only options we'll have.

    EDIT: Just thought of another option. It's to send the kids to live somewhere else. Again, it's neither attractive nor realistic, but by definition, it's an option.


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    #41
    scarepanda
    Registered Users Posts: 3,452 ✭✭✭scarepanda


    lazygal wrote: »
    What do you want people to say though?
    Your living situation is affecting your child's ability to attend school.

    Do you seriously think that the options are that simple? Home school, move out or throw all caution to the wind and send the kids off to school with a vulnerable person in the house?

    For example, my mam was a SAHM, when I was 12 my granny moved in with us after a bad fall and never moved back to her own house. She had been living with my bachelor farmer uncle, but her needs after the fall were more demanding and personal that he was able to offer or she was willing to accept from him. We lived at the top of the road from their house. The rest of mams siblings lived over 30 minutes away and had families of their own.

    In that situation, what exactly would you propose happen? Ship granny off to a nursing home? After the way nursing facilities have been managed?


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    #42
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    Because it was sympathetic to the position another poster was in, that was being dismissed.

    But the fact is if someone's living situation or childcare or anything else is a factor in whether their children can attend school they'll have to consider whether a change in circumstances is necessary.
    You're taking a weird level of offence at something that doesn't apparently affect you at all.


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    #43
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    lazygal wrote: »
    But the fact is if someone's living situation or childcare or anything else is a factor in whether their children can attend school they'll have to consider whether a change in circumstances is necessary.
    You're taking a weird level of offence at something that doesn't apparently affect you at all.

    I didn't take any offense to it. But I wasn't going to sit aside, when someone who just expressed the state of play for themselves, was being told to do things, they very likely wouldn't be able to do.


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    #44
    jlm29
    Registered Users Posts: 3,818 ✭✭✭jlm29


    scarepanda wrote: »
    Do you seriously think that the options are that simple? Home school, move out or throw all caution to the wind and send the kids off to school with a vulnerable person in the house?

    For example, my mam was a SAHM, when I was 12 my granny moved in with us after a bad fall and never moved back to her own house. She had been living with my bachelor farmer uncle, but her needs after the fall were more demanding and personal that he was able to offer or she was willing to accept from him. We lived at the top of the road from their house. The rest of mams siblings lived over 30 minutes away and had families of their own.

    In that situation, what exactly would you propose happen? Ship granny off to a nursing home? After the way nursing facilities have been managed?

    I suppose in that scenario the sahm is in a reasonable position to work through the school work at home?
    People are going to have to make choices, watch numbers carefully, be very aware of and responsive to symptoms etc. It’s going to be difficult for parents who are stuck for childcare when kids get coughs and colds this winter, but I don’t think there’s a magic One solution For all, people will need to figure out what will work for them and their households


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    #45
    Uncle Pierre
    Registered Users Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭Uncle Pierre


    scarepanda wrote: »
    Do you seriously think that the options are that simple? Home school, move out or throw all caution to the wind and send the kids off to school with a vulnerable person in the house?

    For example, my mam was a SAHM, when I was 12 my granny moved in with us after a bad fall and never moved back to her own house. She had been living with my bachelor farmer uncle, but her needs after the fall were more demanding and personal that he was able to offer or she was willing to accept from him. We lived at the top of the road from their house. The rest of mams siblings lived over 30 minutes away and had families of their own.

    In that situation, what exactly would you propose happen? Ship granny off to a nursing home? After the way nursing facilities have been managed?

    It's not that the options are that simple. Instead, it's that they're that limited.

    Basically the same unfortunate and difficult set of options would apply in a case like you've outlined. Either send the kids to school and accept the risk coming into your home, or granny goes to live somewhere else, or the kids live somewhere else, or you home school the kids, or you don't educate them at all.

    A terrible position to be in, but at the end of the day, you'd have to choose one of them.


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    #46
    Neyite
    Administrators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,947 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Neyite


    It's the parents that I'm worried about, frankly.

    I've seen over the years parents knowingly sending their child in with a vomiting bug, or chicken pox, or head-lice not giving a sh!t that their kid will infect others. You see parents deliberately sending in peanut butter sandwiches because why should their darling have to forgo just because some kid in their class could die. And that's just the selfish ones, there's plenty more who think the virus is a hoax, or no worse than a cold or that essential oils will fix it.


    Schools I have faith in, parents, not so much.


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    #47
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    There's a family in our school who don't vaccinate and it makes me seethe knowing they won't get the covid vaccine either.
    I wish vaccination was a requirement of entry to publicly funded schools


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    #48
    Lizardlegz
    Registered Users Posts: 267 ✭✭Lizardlegz


    Neyite wrote: »
    It's the parents that I'm worried about, frankly.

    I've seen over the years parents knowingly sending their child in with a vomiting bug, or chicken pox, or head-lice not giving a sh!t that their kid will infect others. You see parents deliberately sending in peanut butter sandwiches because why should their darling have to forgo just because some kid in their class could die. And that's just the selfish ones, there's plenty more who think the virus is a hoax, or no worse than a cold or that essential oils will fix it.


    Schools I have faith in, parents, not so much.

    This x100!!!!! I’m more concerned about the (selfish silly) parents than anything else...


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    #49
    scarepanda
    Registered Users Posts: 3,452 ✭✭✭scarepanda


    .


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    #50
    scarepanda
    Registered Users Posts: 3,452 ✭✭✭scarepanda


    jlm29 wrote: »
    I suppose in that scenario the sahm is in a reasonable position to work through the school work at home?
    People are going to have to make choices, watch numbers carefully, be very aware of and responsive to symptoms etc. It’s going to be difficult for parents who are stuck for childcare when kids get coughs and colds this winter, but I don’t think there’s a magic One solution For all, people will need to figure out what will work for them and their households


    See, people have gone from it being a simple black or white choice to 'I suppose', everyones situation is different, anyone living with a parent/grandparent have a reason that's not a straight black and white situation.

    As for what would have happened in the situation i outlined, I've no idea what choice my parents would have made. There would have been no way that granny would have been sent somewhere else to live, there would have been no one in a position or willing to take on her care, if she went back into my uncles house mam would still have been the main carer just that granny would have lived in a different house, and although my parents came from a different era than parents today, my mother wouldn't have been best placed to do home schooling because of her own education background. And as for shipping the kids out? Come on, does anyone think that's a realistic option for many people? I'm not trying to be obstinate by throwing out problems to any of the possible solutions, I just know that if covid happened when I was a kid it would not be an easy choice for my mam, her kids or her mother, the guilt of choosing one over the other would have eaten her alive.


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    #51
    Uncle Pierre
    Registered Users Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭Uncle Pierre


    scarepanda wrote: »
    I just know that if covid happened when I was a kid it would not be an easy choice for my mam, her kids or her mother, the guilt of choosing one over the other would have eaten her alive.

    That's more or less exactly what I'm saying myself, with the only difference being that you maybe came from the other side of the fence to get there.

    It wouldn't be an easy choice for anybody, but it's a choice that would have to be made.

    I just got involved in this discussion when somebody said that certain things aren't options at all, in order to point out that they are the options, no matter how unpalatable or unfeasible they might be. Because anybody in any of those situations will have to make one of those choices, no matter how difficult it may be.

    By the way, no, I don't expect anybody to seriously consider sending the kids to live somewhere else! I was just throwing that one in for the sake of completeness!


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    #52
    Theboinkmaster
    Registered Users Posts: 3,995 ✭✭✭Theboinkmaster


    lazygal wrote: »
    There's a family in our school who don't vaccinate and it makes me seethe knowing they won't get the covid vaccine either.
    I wish vaccination was a requirement of entry to publicly funded schools

    Whilst annoying I don’t think that’s a huge concern - most people will get the vaccine so herd immunity should rid us of cv19


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    #53
    jlm29
    Registered Users Posts: 3,818 ✭✭✭jlm29


    Uncle Pierre wrote: »
    That's more or less exactly what I'm saying myself, with the only difference being that you maybe came from the other side of the fence to get there.

    It wouldn't be an easy choice for anybody, but it's a choice that would have to be made.

    I just got involved in this discussion when somebody said that certain things aren't options at all, in order to point out that they are the options, no matter how unpalatable or unfeasible they might be. Because anybody in any of those situations will have to make one of those choices, no matter how difficult it may be.

    By the way, no, I don't expect anybody to seriously consider sending the kids to live somewhere else! I was just throwing that one in for the sake of completeness!

    That’s it. None of the choices will be easy for some people. But they are people’s own decisions to make. Nobody can do it for them. Everyone will think differently. I’ve heard of nurses moving out of their family home to avoid passing Covid on to their families. I’ve heard of other healthcare workers being signed off work sick to avoid going to work during Covid. They’re both choices that I wouldn’t make myself. But that doesn’t make them right or wrong


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    #54
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    This is it. There are going to be kids and families in really awful dilemmas. I can't see how we will be able to have any family gatherings once the kids go back as my sister has a very small baby who was premature and we have other at risk people in the family. But school is the number one priority for us and we'll do whatever is necessary to ensure they can attend as many days as possible. If that means no family birthdays, Christmas events, long Sunday lunches, sleepovers and everything else that's just the way it's going to be. One child in one of my children's classes was on chemo last spring and another was diagnosed with a serious illness, neither will be able to attend school for the foreseeable future as their parents don't want to take any risks. It's going to be ****ty for everyone to greater or lesser extents.


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    #55
    shesty
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,908 Mod ✭✭✭✭shesty


    100%.
    My daughter is complaining of a bit of a sore throat and her nose is a little bit runny this evening.
    I feel like I need to shut the family down on the off-chance she has something (altho I suspect it is just a bit of a sore throat).I feel like I have no way to judge this stuff anymore.And schools aren't even back.


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    #56
    Uncle Pierre
    Registered Users Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭Uncle Pierre


    I'm just glad everybody here seems to be on friendly terms again. It was getting a little bit rowdy earlier on. :D:D:D


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    #57
    RocketRaccoon
    Registered Users Posts: 4,448 ✭✭✭RocketRaccoon


    Neyite wrote: »
    It's the parents that I'm worried about, frankly.

    I've seen over the years parents knowingly sending their child in with a vomiting bug, or chicken pox, or head-lice not giving a sh!t that their kid will infect others. You see parents deliberately sending in peanut butter sandwiches because why should their darling have to forgo just because some kid in their class could die. And that's just the selfish ones, there's plenty more who think the virus is a hoax, or no worse than a cold or that essential oils will fix it.


    Schools I have faith in, parents, not so much.

    This is when the teachers will have to step in and refuse to allow sick children into the class. Hopefully someone standing at the classroom entrance with a temperature monitor. If your kid is sick then off home they go.


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    #58
    Lizardlegz
    Registered Users Posts: 267 ✭✭Lizardlegz


    RocketRaccoon wrote: »
    This is when the teachers will have to step in and refuse to allow sick children into the class. Hopefully someone standing at the classroom entrance with a temperature monitor. If your kid is sick then off home they go.

    A dose of calpol 30 min before school and the temp check will be null and void unfortunately....


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    #59
    bee06
    Registered Users Posts: 4,514 ✭✭✭bee06


    lazygal wrote: »
    It's going to be ****ty for everyone to greater or lesser extents.

    This pretty much sums it up for me. I’m very lucky we don’t have any at risk people but we all know you don’t need to be at risk for serious complications as well. My 2 year old is starting his ECCE and we have a 5 month old. I feel like I have to limit/stop his contact with his cousins in primary school because I don’t want him spreading anything himself but then I think about the children in his class with older siblings. He’s never been in crèche so he’s going to pick up all the “normal” stuff anyway. Thankfully I’ll be on maternity leave if I have to keep him home. The whole thing has given me anxiety and mild agoraphobia as it is.


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    #60
    shesty
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,908 Mod ✭✭✭✭shesty


    They are hoping the spread of stuff won't be so bad because of the increased hygiene, but Bee06 you do get used to it - you kind of realise you can only do so much.


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    #61
    Digs
    Registered Users Posts: 2,102 ✭✭✭Digs


    shesty wrote: »
    100%.
    My daughter is complaining of a bit of a sore throat and her nose is a little bit runny this evening.
    I feel like I need to shut the family down on the off-chance she has something (altho I suspect it is just a bit of a sore throat).I feel like I have no way to judge this stuff anymore.And schools aren't even back.

    This is what I’m wondering about. We have had notification from both school and Naíonra regarding their dates to return and that’s as much as I’ve heard. We’ve been told school is working on the return plan and will update shortly. I would assume they will give instructions on when to stay at home if sick etc As I said I’ll do as I’m told and do our bit but am fully expecting back and forth and stops and starts. It is going to be a loooooooong Winter.


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