Winter 20/21 - General Discussion

Oneiric 3

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

I think hilly areas of NI do better than most of England, at least in terms of frequency of snow.

The hills here above 500 metres have a semi permanent snow cover. And slieve Donard is actually below freezing quite often, even when it is 5-6c at sea level.

There is also a very strong southern England bias with the UK Met Office it has to be said. What is common winter weather in the north of the UK (heavy rains, gales etc) becomes something akin to the great apocalypse when those systems happen to move in through the south of the country from time to time.

sryanbruen

Deleted User wrote: »

We probably got rain in that 1978 blizzard.

No we didn't. Cork Airport had a depth of 26cm on 20 February 1978 from that blizzard - its greatest depth. Shannon Airport had a depth of 6cm - also its greatest depth. It was a great event for southern parts of the country.

EDIT: And I see you probably meant the 1987 beast from the east, not 1978.

sryanbruen

sryanbruen wrote: »

No we didn't. Cork Airport had a depth of 26cm on 20 February 1978 from that blizzard - its greatest depth. Shannon Airport had a depth of 6cm - also its greatest depth. It was a great event for southern parts of the country.

interesting. What about further north like Dublin, or did it not reach?

munsterlegend

sryanbruen wrote: »

No we didn't. Cork Airport had a depth of 26cm on 20 February 1978 from that blizzard - its greatest depth. Shannon Airport had a depth of 6cm - also its greatest depth. It was a great event for southern parts of the country.

EDIT: And I see you probably meant the 1987 beast from the east, not 1978.

Plenty snow in Cork in 1987 as well.

Nqp15hhu

Oneiric 3 wrote: »

There is also a very strong southern England bias with the UK Met Office it has to be said. What is common winter weather in the north of the UK (heavy rains, gales etc) becomes something akin to the great apocalypse when those systems happen to move in through the south of the country from time to time.

My university sent out warning emails and told us to stay inside with 50mph gusts!

Slashermcguirk

This is correct, Scottish highlands are the only reliable place for snow. Southern England Including London is a disaster if you are a snow lover. Some parts of northern England like parts of Ireland (Donegal) get snow occasionally but by no means regularly. The UK snow hype is just bizarre, I know people who have been years in London and Bristol and they say snow is very rare, lucky to even see snow at all some winters. They are basically like us, potential for snow is there but rarely transpires. Scotland is really the only exception

Oneiric 3 wrote: »

Snow events in the UK, outside of Scotland that is, are often overhyped in my opinion, both by the media and the UK Met Office. England and Wales are not really that snowy at all.

Slashermcguirk

Wicklow mountains / sally gap would get more snow than those places in winter

quote="fvp4;116041953"]It snows more than in Ireland, perhaps outside the North, but of course less than the more northerly parts of Britain. There are high hills and moors on the south west which are snowy.

from wiki:

In the south-west the number of days of snowfall increases with altitude: per approximately every 100 m (330 ft) increase in altitude, the number of days of snow falling increases by five days. From 1979 to 2000, on average there were fewer than 10 days per winter in which snow fell in the islands of the south-west and the coastal areas of Devon and Cornwall, and slightly more than 10 days on average near to the Severn Estuary. Inland areas received between 8–15 days of snow falling; more days of snow fall were noted particularly to the north-east. Some upland areas received, on average, over 25 days per year of snow falling.[11]

Similarly to the ratio of days of snow falling to altitude, the number of days in which snow settles on the ground increases by five days per every 100 m (330 ft) increase in altitude. In the south-west, it is rare that snow settles on the ground. From 1979 to 2000 on average, lowland areas did not record any lying snow in one out of every three years. During this period, snow settled, on average, fewer than three days per year across the Isles of Scilly and on the coasts of Devon and Cornwall. Inland areas had an average of 5–10 days of snow lying per year and, as with the days of snow falling; this was higher towards the north-east of the region. More than 20 days of snow lying can be expected on the high grounds of Dartmoor and Exmoor.[11]

Seems higher than most of Ireland.

And then the Atlantic hitting the cold continental air.

The south-west, although the mildest region of the British Isles, has been affected by some of the most severe blizzards. Blizzards are a rare occurrence in the United Kingdom, but can occur when especially cold easterly winds from the continent meet an Atlantic depression, causing a prolonged snowstorm and high winds. This occurred in February 1978, when 50 cm (20 in) of snow accumulated in inland Devon and 90 cm (35 in) on Dartmoor and Exmoor, caused by −2 °C (28 °F) winds at 25 knots (46 km/h; 29 mph). In January 1982, snow drifts were 1 m (3 ft 3 in) deep around the Bristol area. Convective showers on 12 January 1987 left parts of Cornwall with deep snow: 35 cm (14 in) at Falmouth, 39 cm (15 in) Penzance and 23 cm (9.1 in) on the Isles of Scilly.[11]


So it does seem like the 1982 incident, which also affected Ireland, is more common there, even if not that common. Ireland is far west so an Atlantic storm sliding south of us and advecting cold from the continent is rare over Ireland but slightly more likely in England. We probably got rain in that 1978 blizzard.[/quote]

sryanbruen

Gonzo wrote: »

interesting video. They claim most lowland and southern parts of the UK get 10 days of falling snow per year or less. Many parts of Ireland struggles to get 1 or 2 days of falling snow per year I reckon. Some parts see no flakes at all some years.

The north-west propbably see's more snow on average than any other part of Ireland (Donegal, Mayo, Sligo).

According to Met E's Snowfall in Ireland article from 2012, Dublin Airport sees 20 days of falling snow every year which even including sleet, I find a bit hard to believe. I compiled days of snow falling for every winter (October to May) at the station since 1987 using weather bulletins which they stopped doing after 2015. 2015-16 to present day I compiled using my own observations with my relatively close locality to the airport. Open to error. Not many years here of 20 snow falling days, 2009-10 being the only one of this century so far.

This winter, I've observed 6 days of "snow falling" with 1 of them being mainly sleet (December 28th). Same as last year although the ones this year have been more significant.

Nqp15hhu

There is a couple of people who have decided that it would be a great idea to slide down a local road on sledges. Whilst the road may be impassable, tractors etc use that road.

This is very wreckless behaviour.

Tyrone212

sryanbruen wrote: »

According to Met E's Snowfall in Ireland article from 2012, Dublin Airport sees 20 days of falling snow every year which even including sleet, I find a bit hard to believe. I compiled days of snow falling for every winter (October to May) at the station since 1987 using weather bulletins which they stopped doing after 2015. 2015-16 to present day I compiled using my own observations with my relatively close locality to the airport. Open to error. Not many years here of 20 snow falling days, 2009-10 being the only one of this century so far.

This winter, I've observed 6 days of "snow falling" with 1 of them being mainly sleet (December 28th). Same as last year although the ones this year have been more significant.

In their 30 year averages from 1981-2010 it has 16.6 days with sleet/snow recorded and 3.4 days of lying snow.

Nqp15hhu

sryanbruen wrote: »

According to Met E's Snowfall in Ireland article from 2012, Dublin Airport sees 20 days of falling snow every year which even including sleet, I find a bit hard to believe. I compiled days of snow falling for every winter (October to May) at the station since 1987 using weather bulletins which they stopped doing after 2015. 2015-16 to present day I compiled using my own observations with my relatively close locality to the airport. Open to error. Not many years here of 20 snow falling days, 2009-10 being the only one of this century so far.

This winter, I've observed 6 days of "snow falling" with 1 of them being mainly sleet (December 28th). Same as last year although the ones this year have been more significant.

It is not difficult to get 20 days of falling snow over a whole winter.

You only need to have a few cold spells from December-March.

Gonzo

I've seen falling snow 2 days so far this winter and lying snow on about 4 days but the amounts are very small.

I have to admit I was rather jealous looking at those heavy snow showers in Dublin yesterday, that was a decent covering shown in the videos yesterday. We had nothing like that in Meath, just the one hour of wet snow/sleet on Saturday night.

Most of what fell melted yesterday morning and early afternoon due to a damp ground but there are traces of snow left in sheltered parts of the garden and there has been no melt whatsoever today due to the ground now being completely frozen after last nights very severe frost and low temperatures.

I would say my average per winter is 2 to 3 light snowfalls with lying snow 1 to 2 days per year. Of course once or twice per decade we do get that decent easterly and in those winters we could get as much as 10 days of lying snow or even more. 2010 and 2018 both had over 10 days of lying snow here.

As for the rest of this winter, i'm very unsure at this stage if were going to get an easterly at all, but i'm expecting another low level cold spell where we may get another dusting similar to Saturday and the snow early in January.

I hear alot of talk about this winter being a teaser winter so maybe there is a chance we may get the real deal next winter.

sryanbruen

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

It is not difficult to get 20 days of falling snow over a whole winter.

You only need to have a few cold spells from December-March.

Which is a lot easier said than done, particularly in the south and east of the country away from the likes of Sally Gap in contrast to further northwards. Only one winter has achieved 20 days of falling snow over a whole season since the turn of the century as I said at the airport.

DOCARCH

Gonzo wrote: »

I've seen falling snow 2 days so far this winter...

Maybe you are not looking out the window enough!

In Dublin 16 I have had 9 days so far this winter with snow falling (including sleet and graupel) but only 2 days with a dusting of snow lying at 0900.

Up same date this time last year only had 1 day with snow falling!

nacho libre

I think after having chased a notable cold spell all winter, it would not surprise me if we end up with one towards the very end of winter.
I'm just curious what people consider a dusting. We had 3- 4cm from the snowfall on Saturday night. To me that's a decent covering.

In total i've had 4 snowfalls this winter.

Danno

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

It is not difficult to get 20 days of falling snow over a whole winter.

You only need to have a few cold spells from December-March.

Snow showers will die out as they track inland until early to mid-March from then it's land based convection that keeps them going across the whole country.

Show showers will affect windward coasts but rarely give prolonged coverings under 200m or thereabouts, unless the precipitation comes in bands or trains.

The east coast does better because the air is less modified coming off a cold continent (usually).

Each area of the country will do better than others given a particular setup.

The midlands will get better frontal snow events because of distance from marine influence.
The west, northwest and north will do better from showers in a NW or N airflow bringing showers. Sometimes the SW will catch these too if the air is cold enough.
The east does well from a continental airflow or when a front stalls, but frontal snow can be hit and miss owing to the Irish sea air mixing in.

If it's anywhere that is the poor relation in all of this - it's along the south coast from say Sherkin Island over to around Dungarvan. The geography of this area does not lend well to snow events. These areas would rely on a low pressure running eastwards through the Celtic Sea generating an ENE. A rare thing, but can deliver whopping amounts of snow when they happen.

sryanbruen

Deleted User wrote: »

interesting. What about further north like Dublin, or did it not reach?

Not really, it was a southern affair though the east got affected in the 1987 beast from the east with the airport observing a depth of 19cm from lake effect streamers.

nacho libre wrote: »

I think after having chased a notable cold spell all winter, it would not surprise me if we end up with one towards the very end of winter.
I'm just curious what people consider a dusting. We had 3- 4cm from the snowfall on Saturday night. To me that's a decent covering.

In total i've had 4 snowfalls this winter.

Anything <1cm is a dusting to me, had 3 of those this winter; New Year's Eve, 7th January and Saturday night. Should be seeing at least a few of those every winter but even they have been rare to come by in some winters of the past decade here.

Tyrone212 wrote: »

In their 30 year averages from 1981-2010 it has 16.6 days with sleet/snow recorded and 3.4 days of lying snow.

The average I mention is based on 1961-2012 and encompasses the snowy 60s so 16-17 days with the above data sounds a bit more realistic. Perhaps even less for 1991-2020 like 13 days? I think lying snow is based on seeing snow at 0900 the following morning. I don't recall seeing such between 2013 and 2018 although didn't observe as closely or delegate as much time to the field as I do now. I've had only this morning since 2018 as 3 March 2019 snow had melted by the morning of the 4th and none of last year's days of snow falling had settling snow.

nacho libre

https://www.severe-weather.eu/global-weather/winter-weather-forecast-early-february-united-states-europe-fa/

Nqp15hhu

nacho libre wrote: »

I think after having chased a notable cold spell all winter, it would not surprise me if we end up with one towards the very end of winter.
I'm just curious what people consider a dusting. We had 3- 4cm from the snowfall on Saturday night. To me that's a decent covering.

In total i've had 4 snowfalls this winter.

Anything above 2 inches is not a dusting. Decent coverage is 4-6 inches.

Donegal Storm

Oneiric 3 wrote: »

Snow events in the UK, outside of Scotland that is, are often overhyped in my opinion, both by the media and the UK Met Office. England and Wales are not really that snowy at all.

We complain a lot in this country about media and ME being Dublin centric but they take it to a whole different level in the UK with their South East bias. I was living in London during that particularly stormy winter around 2013 or 2014, for the most part I found it a bog standard winter when compared to what we get in Donegal but every windy day was front page news and hyped beyond belief. A major storm or snow event in Scotland on the other hand would barely get a mention in the news

Donegal Storm

Donegal Storm wrote: »

windy day was front page news and hyped beyond belief. A major storm or snow event in Scotland on the other hand would barely get a mention in the news

Sure storms get beyond belief coverage in Ireland these days too when most of them are just another storm and no big deal.

Donegal Storm

Donegal Storm wrote: »

We complain a lot in this country about media and ME being Dublin centric but they take it to a whole different level in the UK with their South East bias. I was living in London during that particularly stormy winter around 2013 or 2014, for the most part I found it a bog standard winter when compared to what we get in Donegal but every windy day was front page news and hyped beyond belief. A major storm or snow event in Scotland on the other hand would barely get a mention in the news

Yes, but the potential damage is greater in the south east to be fair, they have more people and more flora, trees especially.

Clearing the snow from the yard during Emma here near Arklow, on the morning of March 2nd 2018

We had to clear it again the next day as it continued to snow,drifts 10ft high on the farm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTsv6FhrsXM

Outside Maisie Kelly's pub in Arklow on March 3rd 2018,after the cattle were fed the following night,still snowing
(Says 11th but was the 3rd,uploaded on the 11tg I'd say)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLvbOJFDXbQ

cnocbui

Still some snow on my grass - and some other things.



The advantage of altitude.

Rock Lesnar

Class day in meath today, sunny all day, still patches of snow lying in the fields, clear sky and very cold, 0.2c, and back to the pits of wet weather tomorrow

nacho libre

Donegal Storm wrote: »

We complain a lot in this country about media and ME being Dublin centric but they take it to a whole different level in the UK with their South East bias. I was living in London during that particularly stormy winter around 2013 or 2014, for the most part I found it a bog standard winter when compared to what we get in Donegal but every windy day was front page news and hyped beyond belief. A major storm or snow event in Scotland on the other hand would barely get a mention in the news

It's because storms are rare in London. Also what we consider a normal winter system can be more impactful there. I remember an Irishman driving back from the airport to Watford was killed by a falling tree during one of those storms.

redsteveireland

Lovely this afternoon. Always look up I say.

Slight hint of Kelvin-Helmholtz in the 2nd photo.

Donegal Storm

I see there's a snow warning for tonight for Cavan, Monaghan, Donegal and Leitrim. No details on the warning but I presume it's forecast to transition to rain by morning

https://www.met.ie/warnings/tomorrow

Snowbiee21

Status Yellow - Snow/Ice warning for Cavan, Monaghan, Donegal and Leitrim
Met Éireann Weather Warning

Falls of sleet and snow. Icy and hazardous conditions.

Valid: 00:01 Tuesday 26/01/2021 to 09:00 Tuesday 26/01/2021

Issued: 18:00 Monday 25/01/2021

appledrop

We still have some snow remaining here in NCD.

Surprised it lasted. It was a cold day today but plenty of sunshine so I thought it would all melt.