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Solar PV Hints, Tips & Troubleshooting
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I disagree. 1240 is about the cost of a 2.4kWh battery and hybrid over non-hybrid inverter to an installer. DrPhilG got an extra Pylontech for 700 over his original quote. 540 is definitely ballpark what a hybrid inverter costs more than the non-hybrid equivalent.
Thats the key point there garo.
No point in looking at retail prices for batteries. You need to compare quotes from SEAI registered installers and there sure aint €40 in the difference between a battery and non-battery install unless the installer is massaging the quotes.
I've got enough quotes of my own at this stage to know the price difference unless something has radically changed in the last few months.
battery, hybrid inverter, odds 'n ends and labour minus the grant does not get you to €40.
As a few of us have said before, better keep the money in your pocket, get the €1800 grant and pay a few extra quid to get it to 3-4kWp (which doesnt cost much extra as the installer is already on site) and then utilise FiT when it comes in.
No issues with a much more expensive hybrid inverter packing up or batteries degrading in the lifetime of you trying to break even, not to mind be up money, and FiT will "make you money" as an "infinitely" sized battery without any capital expenditure or degrading parts. I know we need to wait for that to come in but I'd rather wait a few years for that than pay for Li-ion batteries now that wont break even for 10-15 years, at least.
But peoples opinions differ here so each to their own. At least the readers are getting both opinions on it!
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Instead of going all out right now and getting a full monitoring kit, you can just easily purchase a watt meter, plug it in to your fridge for 24 hours and it will give your overall usage, fridges are normally around 1kwh used for 24 hours.
I used to config/maintain network monitoring software so what can i say, i love a good graph :P but you make a good point, a watt meter would give me a ball park for certain appliances alright to get started with.
Washing machine wouldnt be a priority for me and can be done in the sink at a push if we have "storm ophelia" length outages. The missus may disagree thereWashing machines only ramp up when they spin.
I wouldn't touch a dryer in a grid down unless you have more than enough solar to cover the export of the battery during the day.
Combi boilers are bad for grid down,plus there is no hot water stored, just mains runs through them.
The gas boiler heats water in the same tank as the thermal panels we have. If we know of a storm coming and the tank isnt already warm from the pannels i usually give it a 60min boost just to make sure we have a full hot tank. Have to admit, i've never thought about how much power a boiler would consume until now.Go with a 48 volt system as your wire diameter is smaller.
Led lights, no desktops as they can use up to 3 to 400 watts an hour, laptops are not that efficient either 150 watts , try a tablet.
Amazon is good for dc circuit breakers. Anything else just ask.
YouTube is great for learning about off grid, on grid is the easy part.
All LED lights here. Unfortunately massively offset by 2 servers running 24x7 plus now 2 laptops from us working from home. Your advice is much appreciated. Given me lots more to think about and research!0 -
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Don't forget to learn how to calculate your power.sphinxicus wrote: »I used to config/maintain network monitoring software so what can i say, i love a good graph :P but you make a good point, a watt meter would give me a ball park for certain appliances alright to get started with.
Washing machine wouldnt be a priority for me and can be done in the sink at a push if we have "storm ophelia" length outages. The missus may disagree there
The gas boiler heats water in the same tank as the thermal panels we have. If we know of a storm coming and the tank isnt already warm from the pannels i usually give it a 60min boost just to make sure we have a full hot tank. Have to admit, i've never thought about how much power a boiler would consume until now.
All LED lights here. Unfortunately massively offset by 2 servers running 24x7 plus now 2 laptops from us working from home. Your advice is much appreciated. Given me lots more to think about and research!
Your amps, watts, volts calculations, after you have that down you can sail through your off grid setup.
Not all solar panels are the same, the voltages may differ, as an example, you can't have let's say 20 panels at 40 volts each, 20x40= 800 volts, and your inverter can only handle 600 volts, it's over voltage.
Your batteries are the same, a 48 volt battery setup at 200 amp hours is 48x200= 9600 watt hours.
If your going with agm or lead acid that above number is halved as lead acid and agms can safely only discharge to 50%, so you only have 4800 watt hours, that's the beauty of lithium, can really discharge to 20% and still be fine.
I know you can go to 0% but not advisable.
So your 4800 watt hours is 4.8kwh..
Just get used to your calculations..
You need to understand circuit breakers also.
If I have 5kw of solar coming in to a 48 volt battery I need a dc breaker, 5000 watts divided by 48 = 104 amps, 104x1.25= 130 amp breaker.
Hope this helps0 -
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Let's say for instance you just charge your fridge for the lifespan of the lithium 2.4kwh pylontech.
How much is a pylontech after tax?
Let's say 1100 euro.
So for instance a fridge uses approx 1kw for 24hrs,
That 1kwh in todays electric cost after vat, standing charge, carbon tax works out at approx 25 cent a kW.
So 365 days of the year at. 25 cent = 91.25 euro.
If the charge cycle lasts 6000 cycles, and it doesn't finish at 6000 cycles, it will degrade but still work, so 6000 cycles divided by 365 days is
16.4 years
16.4 years times 91.25 euro = 1,499 euro..
If anyone can verify these figures I would appreciate it, plus the lifespan of the lithium will last longer as your not going to 80% dod..
Your looking at about 30 years for the lifespan of that battery..
For the off grid guys here this guys videos are worth watching, also for the on grid guys.
But here is the facts about lithium
https://youtu.be/Yf9N9zBgyB8 0 -
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All this talk of batteries is really confusing? Surely the point of the battery is to improve your consumption of any electricity you generate?
For most users the highest electricity usage would in general the evening when cooking dinner ??. outside of that would be when ever people use washer / dryer / dishwasher or shorter bursts of high use for toaster/microwave/kettle? Yes there will be exceptions to this.
If i had no battery i would export most of what i generate on my SE and SW facing roofs during the morning and afternoon. At this time of year by time we start dinner solar generation has dropped considerably. But with the battery aim to be full by mid afternoon and then that covers part of cooking requirements and so far (I know I'm only a week in) usually powers the house between 12 to 4am (longer if we have a takeaway)
Once a feed in system comes along it still will depend on the price you get vs what you you pay for electricity to determine when to use battery vs when to sell? also expect if along with smart metering new time based charges come in then it could also be worth having a battery to discharge when the cost of electricity is highest and PV generation is not able to sustain your needs ?
Also when people are calculated pay back do you consider prices rising over time? EI just increased there prices.
I also don't get why we have a PSO levy for electricity but for gas there is a carbon tax. With the tax the more you use the more you pay. with electricity it makes no difference as everyone pays the same levy value irrespective.0 -
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All this talk of batteries is really confusing? Surely the point of the battery is to improve your consumption of any electricity you generate?
For most users the highest electricity usage would in general the evening when cooking dinner ??. outside of that would be when ever people use washer / dryer / dishwasher or shorter bursts of high use for toaster/microwave/kettle? Yes there will be exceptions to this.
If i had no battery i would export most of what i generate on my SE and SW facing roofs during the morning and afternoon. At this time of year by time we start dinner solar generation has dropped considerably. But with the battery aim to be full by mid afternoon and then that covers part of cooking requirements and so far (I know I'm only a week in) usually powers the house between 12 to 4am (longer if we have a takeaway)
Once a feed in system comes along it still will depend on the price you get vs what you you pay for electricity to determine when to use battery vs when to sell? also expect if along with smart metering new time based charges come in then it could also be worth having a battery to discharge when the cost of electricity is highest and PV generation is not able to sustain your needs ?
Also when people are calculated pay back do you consider prices rising over time? EI just increased there prices.
I also don't get why we have a PSO levy for electricity but for gas there is a carbon tax. With the tax the more you use the more you pay. with electricity it makes no difference as everyone pays the same levy value irrespective.
On a purely financial basis its hard to make a battery pay its way, even with the extra grant. Even with no feed in tariff. Do you know how much you get out of the battery every day, in Kwh, multiply that by your day rate and that would get you what you are "saving" by using the battery.
once a feed in tarriff comes in that would skew the figures even worse.
Now that you have solar in, I would really recommend getting a day/night meter in as most of your daytime use will be covered by solar and then you get the night time rate, at night for 9 hrs.
I love the idea of the battery and being able to use what you generate, and if you get it as a fun project, or for the feel good factor, go off grid, then go ahead, but to save money with it, is a false economy at todays prices and todays price of electricity. I still might get an AC connected battery But I'll be getting it knowing it might just pay for itself over its lifetime.. if I'm lucky!
The rise in electricity prices doesn't concern me, as I switch every year and go for the one that costs me the least amount of money.
Currently Im paying about 15.6c for day and 7.4c for night, (only have a 36% discount instead of the 41 that you can get now!)0 -
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And the elephant in the room with lead acid is that it has to be fully charged at least once a week. If your PV setup can't handle that or if you don't set it up like that, or don't manually charge them regularly, your lead acid batteries will be as good as dead after one winter
Doing it wrong Unkel.
The elephant in the room is Li-ion has a BMS and Lead doesn't.
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Sir Liamalot wrote: »Doing it wrong Unkel.
The elephant in the room is Li-ion has a BMS and Lead doesn't.
Mine doesn't
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