How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

s1ippy

s1ippy wrote: »

I would say the opposite. If you're at work and somebody in your room tests positive and uploads their code, you will be prioritised for testing and know more quickly if you have covid.

If you don't have the app you mightn't even be flagged as a close contact in schools.

The minimum expectation for any adult in their job is that they know who their daily contacts are.

JDD

s1ippy wrote: »

I would say the opposite. If you're at work and somebody in your room tests positive and uploads their code, you will be prioritised for testing and know more quickly if you have covid.

If you don't have the app you mightn't even be flagged as a close contact in schools.

But as a teacher aren't you supposed to be the only one in the room with a mobile phone? I know that's laughable in secondary school, but aren't their phones at least supposed to be turned off during class?

Talisman

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Any in same class or same year?

5 are in my daughter's year, they seem to be split between her class and another. The same group is kept together for the core subjects but the classes mix when they do the optional subjects (Science, Home Economics, Business Studies etc.) so it's hardly an ideal setup.

There were also 2 cases in one of the senior years.

s1ippy

You could have lunch with a colleague who later tests positive. No guarantees that social distancing will be effective if you've touched the same surfaces or used the bathroom after them.

I would be keeping the app on.

Jucifer

delly wrote: »

Cold air doesn't cause sniffles, but cold air does cause a narrowing of the airways, which can then lead to coughing or a shortness of breath. If you have asthma, cold air can have a very bad effect.

Cheers, I know the cause of colds is one of many viruses. I thought being in a cold environment when already sick could worsen the illness. Along the lines of using up more energy to keep warm lessens ability of immune system to fight virus. Anyway not important.

History Queen

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The minimum expectation for any adult in their job is that they know who their daily contacts are.

Knowing who your contacts are and having the HSE agree with you are two different things if you are a teacher.

wirelessdude01

JDD wrote: »

But as a teacher aren't you supposed to be the only one in the room with a mobile phone? I know that's laughable in secondary school, but aren't their phones at least supposed to be turned off during class?

Some pupils even have phones in primary.

I'd guess pretty much every secondary student has a phone at school with them.

s1ippy

Haha,

History Queen wrote: »

Knowing who your contacts are and having the HSE agree with you are two different things if you are a teacher.

"I was within 2m of Ms Buckley, Mr O'Brien, Mr Twomey and Ms O'Leary."

HSE: "No you weren't"

wirelessdude01

History Queen wrote: »

Knowing who your contacts are and having the HSE agree with you are two different things if you are a teacher.

Depends on what definition of close contact is being applied.

The one that Irish society uses?
The one that applies to Irish schools?
The one that the ECDC recommends is used in European schools but which our lads and ladies have chosen to ignore?

wirelessdude01

s1ippy wrote: »

Haha,



"I was within 2m of Ms Buckley, Mr O'Brien, Mr Twomey and Ms O'Leary."

HSE: "No you weren't"

Sounds like something from a panto!!!

JDD

s1ippy wrote: »

You could have lunch with a colleague who later tests positive. No guarantees that social distancing will be effective if you've touched the same surfaces or used the bathroom after them.

I would be keeping the app on.

Switch it on at lunchtime then. This isn't rocket science. You're supposed to wash your hands after using the bathroom anyway, and if picking it up on surfaces is what you are worried about, then I assume you haven't used a public bathroom in six months and are disinfecting your groceries?

But you should be keeping 2m distance from colleagues and washing your hands regularly anyway. Plus I'd guess you'd know fairly quick if the colleague you had lunch with two days ago is out of school today with symptoms. Probably quicker than the covid app would tell you, as the person would have to wait 24-48 hours for a test result and then you'd have to wait for the app on their phone to send you a ping.

meeeeh

mvl wrote: »

appears there is an assumption here that blended learning means parents have to drive the teaching - with follow on economic impacts/disasters - why is that ?
personally i would have thought blended learning is done via teams/zoom/skype calls, with teachers driving the remote learning ?!?

- with that in mind, schools can ensure all children from a year are taught virtually by one teacher at a time per subject, while allowing for additional teaching resources backups for the classes that are done in school - this can help preventing schools being understaffed in next months even. win win for all ...

Young kids can be at home on their own and your hairdresser can't cut your hair over Zoom working from home. If grandparents need to help with childminding (which is what often happens) it would be reckless to have kids in school mixing with other kids and then going to grandparents.

Blondini

At least 8 new cases/schools so far today confirmed by parents group.

JimmyVik

Deleted User wrote: »

If you are in a place where your location relative to other people is known, the app adds no value, just confusion as it's not, and can never be, 100% accurate. Where loads of people are in a building, even if they are in different rooms, pings may be returned. The value of the app is where you don't know the people you are in the vicinity of, or could forget, such as when socialising.

Lead with that on the RTE news.
I dare you

seamus

Better for the app to pick up fifty close contacts and find one case, than pick up none at all. It's unnecessarily nit-picky to ask people to switch off bluetooth on their phone while at work.

What'll happen is that they won't turn it back on for the bus journey home.

History Queen

Paul Reid says 264 cases linked to schools so far and 4000 students and teachers tested to date.

https://www.thejournal.ie/schools-testing-covid-5217543-Sep2020/

JDD

Blondini wrote: »

At least 8 new cases/schools so far today confirmed by parents group.

You know that there are a million schoolgoing children in Ireland right?

Even if, at a generous estimate, each of those 8 cases involve three pupils, then that's 24 cases today. Or 120 this week.

Which would be 0.012% of the schoolgoing population.

Say those 120 infect two others this week (higher than the current R rate, but we're being generous), and those go on to infect two more, and so on for the next month. That would be 960 cases reported in a month.

Or 0.17% of the schoolgoing population.

Those 8 cases don't seem so bad now right?

JimmyVik

s1ippy wrote: »

Haha,

"I was within 2m of Ms Buckley, Mr O'Brien, Mr Twomey and Ms O'Leary."

HSE: "No you weren't"

Oh you are safe. The virus in schools is different. It can only jump an inch.
Were you within an inch of them? No. You're fine.

JimmyVik

JimmyVik wrote: »

Lead with that on the RTE news.
I dare you

Its true

JDD

seamus wrote: »

Better for the app to pick up fifty close contacts and find one case, than pick up none at all. It's unnecessarily nit-picky to ask people to switch off bluetooth on their phone while at work.

What'll happen is that they won't turn it back on for the bus journey home.

Fair enough. But if a teacher's phone picks up 100 close contacts, and all those isolate, including pupils at the back of their class and all the teachers in the school, the school will have to close unnecessarily and the testing facilities will be overwhelmed, leading to delays in results and wider infections across the community.

That is why, I suppose, they are asking some sectors not to use the app.

JimmyVik

Deleted User wrote: »

Its true

You keep up the HSE keep the schools open at all costs, even lives claptrap all you want.


Schools are measured and treated differently than the rest of the country.
Thats the problem. Special rules are being made up as we go along for schools.

wirelessdude01

History Queen wrote: »

Paul Reid says 264 cases linked to schools so far and 4000 students and teachers tested to date.

https://www.thejournal.ie/schools-testing-covid-5217543-Sep2020/

Yet the HSE website shows 339 cases in the age range 4-15 between the 14th and 27th of September.

The preceding fortnight had 509 cases in that age range so actually quite a drop.

Something doesn't match or else we have a significant number of that age range delisted from school roll and officially being home schooled.

History Queen

History Queen wrote: »

Paul Reid says 264 cases linked to schools so far and 4000 students and teachers tested to date.

https://www.thejournal.ie/schools-testing-covid-5217543-Sep2020/

Rate of positive tests from schools less than overall rate - more data to support the success of the reopening in schools
84 additional cases following from 180 index cases which resulted in 4,328 tests - 24 per case.

Lillyfae

JDD wrote: »

Fair enough. But if a teacher's phone picks up 100 close contacts, and all those isolate, including pupils at the back of their class and all the teachers in the school, the school will have to close unnecessarily and the testing facilities will be overwhelmed, leading to delays in results and wider infections across the community.

That is why, I suppose, they are asking some sectors not to use the app.

Not to mention you could be within 2 metres of 4 different people through walls and not actually be in their presence at all, but that won't stop the guffaws and poorly informed comments here, and hysterics on whatsapp if someone receives an alert.

JimmyVik

Deleted User wrote: »

Rate of positive tests from schools less than overall rate - more data to support the success of the reopening in schools
84 additional cases following from 180 index cases which resulted in 4,328 tests - 24 per case.

Are we really surprised when they wont test children or teachers in schools unless they have been licking faces of the positive cases?


You are comparing apples and oranges.


I give up with you. You are a cheerleader for DES. No doubt about it.

Blondini

JDD wrote: »

You know that there are a million schoolgoing children in Ireland right?

Even if, at a generous estimate, each of those 8 cases involve three pupils, then that's 24 cases today. Or 120 this week.

Which would be 0.012% of the schoolgoing population.

Say those 120 infect two others this week (higher than the current R rate, but we're being generous), and those go on to infect two more, and so on for the next month. That would be 960 cases reported in a month.

Or 0.17% of the schoolgoing population.

Those 8 cases don't seem so bad now right?

Read back on the thread.

You're not the first amateur statistician to come up with that garbage.

JimmyVik

JimmyVik wrote: »

Are we really surprised when they wont test children or teachers in schools unless they have been licking faces of the positive cases?


You are comparing apples and oranges.


I give up with you. You are a cheerleader for DES. No doubt about it.

24 tests per positive case says you are wrong.


Never let facts get in the way of a good rant

Lillyfae

Deleted User wrote: »

Never let facts get in the way of a good rant

I'd say it's reminiscent of the "banter" in the school staff room here sometimes :rolleyes:

downthemiddle

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Yet the HSE website shows 339 cases in the age range 4-15 between the 14th and 27th of September.

The preceding fortnight had 509 cases in that age range so actually quite a drop.

Something doesn't match or else we have a significant number of that age range delisted from school roll and officially being home schooled.

I know of one primary school where three staff and five pupils have tested positive. That's a lot of community transmission!!

downthemiddle

Lillyfae wrote: »

I'd say it's reminiscent of the "banter" in the school staff room here sometimes :rolleyes:

I doubt it. Most school staff actually understand how schools function.

JimmyVik

JimmyVik wrote: »

Are we really surprised when they wont test children or teachers in schools unless they have been licking faces of the positive cases?


You are comparing apples and oranges.


I give up with you. You are a cheerleader for DES. No doubt about it.

wirelessdude01

downthemiddle wrote: »

I know of one primary school where three staff and five pupils have tested positive. That's a lot of community transmission!!

All caught in the pub.

irishblessing

JDD wrote: »

You know that there are a million schoolgoing children in Ireland right?

Even if, at a generous estimate, each of those 8 cases involve three pupils, then that's 24 cases today. Or 120 this week.

Which would be 0.012% of the schoolgoing population.

Say those 120 infect two others this week (higher than the current R rate, but we're being generous), and those go on to infect two more, and so on for the next month. That would be 960 cases reported in a month.

Or 0.17% of the schoolgoing population.

Those 8 cases don't seem so bad now right?

That's 8 known cases, reported just in a FB group. Your figures don't matter so much now.

KerryConnor

Only quarantining classes in France after 3 test positive now.and teachers can't be deemed close contact s of their students anymore because they wear masks (even tho kids aren't wearing masks)
With 14000 new cases per day can only assume France wants virus to circulate as quickly as possible now

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.rfi.fr/en/france/20200921-france-eases-covid-19-restrictions-in-primary-schools-despite-rising-cases-children-low-transmission-risk

Boggles

Did any politician today ask Reid to explain his absolute nonsense figures?

meeeeh

irishblessing wrote: »

That's 8 known cases, reported just in a FB group. Your figures don't matter so much now.

Well if on fb it has to be true. Because everything on Facebook is true.

freshpopcorn

Quick question guys.

How come when some schools get a Covid-19 case it can be plastered on social media and regional radio stations and other schools won't get mentioned.

Icyseanfitz

Boggles wrote: »

Did any politician today ask Reid to explain his absolute nonsense figures?

of course not

Icyseanfitz

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Quick question guys.

How come when some schools get a Covid-19 case it can be plastered on social media and regional radio stations and other schools won't get mentioned.

i listen my regional radio and news everyday, ive yet to hear a peep about any schools with covid, and i know for a certainty they exist

freshpopcorn

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

i listen my regional radio and news everyday, ive yet to hear a peep about any schools with covid, and i know for a certainty they exist

I'm just a little lost at how it's done or places are picked!

wirelessdude01

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Quick question guys.

How come when some schools get a Covid-19 case it can be plastered on social media and regional radio stations and other schools won't get mentioned.

Unless a parents puts it up on social media then it isn't known about. Not like there is a central reservoir of data about them that is publicly accessible.

Only other place they could be seen is if someone sends a screen shot of the text message, the Aladdin notification or a copy of the HSE letter to that Facebook group.

Lillyfae

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Quick question guys.

How come when some schools get a Covid-19 case it can be plastered on social media and regional radio stations and other schools won't get mentioned.

I would think it’s because some people have the opinion that it’s inevitable and expect it, and other people don’t so want to make their opinion known elsewhere. This is possibly linked to communication from the schools to employees and parents, and of course down to the expectations of employees and parents themselves.

downthemiddle

Lillyfae wrote: »

I would think it’s because some people have the opinion that it’s inevitable and expect it, and other people don’t so want to make their opinion known elsewhere. This is possibly linked to communication from the schools to employees and parents, and of course down to the expectations of employees and parents themselves.

I’d say that’s an opinion worthy of a Facebook group.

Icyseanfitz

out of interest, to the people who think having the app turned off, not pushed about whole classes getting contacted for tracing etc. Say if your child was in a class, sitting 2 desks away from a child who subsequently tested positive but you or your child never got notified of said positive case. Would you be perfectly happy that the system did everything it was supposed to do?

BonsaiKitten

JDD wrote: »

I'm guessing teams/zoom/skype might work well for secondary school? I mean, it would work for English, Irish and Maths presumably. Not so much for PE, music, art, home economics or the practical parts of science, but you'd be 70% of the way there. Is there any parents who had their secondary kids doing zoom lessons over March to May?

I'm not sure at all about primary school. Our school did microsoft teams for 5th and 6th class. I don't know how well it worked.

For classes below 5th our school used Seesaw. Which was a disaster for us anyway, and entailed two hours of direct supervision of each child each day. I'm not sure why they thought that microsoft teams would not work for the younger classes. Possibly because everything is done on worksheets, which have to be PDF'd and emailed and printed anyway, and the class is taught through play materials that people don't have at home? I don't know. It's also possibly because it is hard to keep a large group of children engaged at that age, and it's only barely manageable when you are in the room, and impossible to do remotely, so the parents would have to sit with their kids and re-explain/re-iterate what the teacher is saying so that the child understands.

Did anyone who has kids in younger primary school classes have their home-schooling done by video call with the teacher? If so, how did it go? Could you leave your child to it and get work done?

I have talked about this a lot on thread but I taught my class through Zoom every day. It did work well but you are relying on children having devices so it won't suit all schools.

The parents left their kids alone on the call - I assume anyway, am sure some sat nearby, I didn't care if they did - and the kids usually needed no home support. Though I did have to send them to find a parent if they had tech problems as it was very hard to get a kid to solve that remotely.

All in all it worked well but is very tiring. Imo you couldn't do a full primary school day on it and couldn't teach a whole class on it if you want to make sure everyone understands. I split them into groups which worked much better.

Could you teach young primary students like that - Junior or Senior Infants? I doubt it. At the very least you'd need a parent sitting alongside to support. Better to put out recorded videos and maybe have regular, short small group/1 to 1 sessions.

Lillyfae

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

out of interest, to the people who think having the app turned off, not pushed about whole classes getting contacted for tracing etc. Say if your child was in a class, sitting 2 desks away from a child who subsequently tested positive but you or your child never got notified of said positive case. Would you be perfectly happy that the system did everything it was supposed to do?

I don’t know if anyone said they were happy about it, did they? Just that it’s not fail safe. Lots of primary children don’t have phones, phones are in lockers in secondary, teachers are frequently within 2 metres of eachother albeit through a wall.

Anyway, as far as I understand it was maverick principals instructing staff to remove the app. So I guess it’s a question for them really.

meeeeh

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

out of interest, to the people who think having the app turned off, not pushed about whole classes getting contacted for tracing etc. Say if your child was in a class, sitting 2 desks away from a child who subsequently tested positive but you or your child never got notified of said positive case. Would you be perfectly happy that the system did everything it was supposed to do?

It depends if anyone else tested positive. If they didn't then I guess the measures worked and Covid didn't spread. I very much doubt that they are intentionally letting virus spread.

In general I would be a lot more worried about measures in nursing homes and hospitals where vulnerable people are than in schools where most will not be overly affected. (I think research is strong enough on that).

Icyseanfitz

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

out of interest, to the people who think having the app turned off, not pushed about whole classes getting contacted for tracing etc. Say if your child was in a class, sitting 2 desks away from a child who subsequently tested positive but you or your child never got notified of said positive case. Would you be perfectly happy that the system did everything it was supposed to do?

See I think the issue is schools having poorly defined pods rather than the guidance itself. If a school cannot satisfy themselves that they can maintain separate pods in a classroom, they should not even try to have pods and declare the full class a pod. Once the contact tracers call and hear Johnny, Mary and Tom are in the pod, they just tick the box as the school have defined that as a pod. I presume principals are afraid if they don’t have poda they will fall fowl of the department, however the opposite should be true, if they declare that a pod can’t be maintained once the effort has been made they should be applauded. On what I personally think should happen. Pods should be separated by at least 1metre and 2 in the case where there is face to face contact. If that can’t happen the pod should be expanded until it can. If there is a case in a class the pod should be isolated and tested, if there are 2, the full class. If there are cases(not from 2siblings where 1 has isolated) in multiple classes within a school, the school should be considered for closing. Some large schools may have other means of segregating preventing that.

wirelessdude01

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Yet the HSE website shows 339 cases in the age range 4-15 between the 14th and 27th of September.

The preceding fortnight had 509 cases in that age range so actually quite a drop.

Something doesn't match or else we have a significant number of that age range delisted from school roll and officially being home schooled.

Siblings and close contacts of a school case from outside of school who subsequently test positive would not be school cases as they were identified outside the school setting, and likely isolating due to contact for the few days prior to positive testing/ result. May account for some of the difference

wirelessdude01

Deleted User wrote: »

See I think the issue is schools having poorly defined pods rather than the guidance itself. If a school cannot satisfy themselves that they can maintain separate pods in a classroom, they should not even try to have pods and declare the full class a pod. Once the contact tracers call and hear Johnny, Mary and Tom are in the pod, they just tick the box as the school have defined that as a pod. I presume principals are afraid if they don’t have poda they will fall fowl of the department, however the opposite should be true, if they declare that a pod can’t be maintained once the effort has been made they should be applauded. On what I personally think should happen. Pods should be separated by at least 1metre and 2 in the case where there is face to face contact. If that can’t happen the pod should be expanded until it can. If there is a case in a class the pod should be isolated and tested, if there are 2, the full class. If there are cases(not from 2siblings where 1 has isolated) in multiple classes within a school, the school should be considered for closing. Some large schools may have other means of segregating preventing that.

Don't think you'll find any teacher having an issue with the above. Pods are total nonsense.

I'll describe my own class set up. Pod 1 is 1m away from pod 2. However some children in both pods 1 and 2 are leas than 1m distance away from some in pod 3.
Some in pod 3 are less than 1m distance from some in pods 4 and 5. Pods 4 and 5 are 1m apart.