How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

s1ippy

s1ippy wrote: »

Yes, absolutely. But if you look at homes, there are only between 2 and probably 8 people you can catch it from. In school there are thousands. Which place has more variables?

Your anecdote would not be applicable in the vast majority of cases.

Not really, a close contact is within 2m for in excess of 15 minutes, you don't catch Covid from walking past someone.

To my mind, all of the published numbers makes total sense.

I can't fathom how folk can't believe hundreds of kids are getting Covid from outside of school when the vast majority of cases are outside of schools.

As only 80 odd teachers and stundents have tested positive for Covid from the 4000 odd school tests my anecdote is applicable in the vast majority of the 1,122 Covid cases in the 5 - 14 age range

wirelessdude01

Augeo wrote: »

Not really, a close contact is within 2m for in excess of 15

My corn flakes are all over the kitchen floor after reading that.

You obviously don't know how close contacts work in our schools.

"After private homes (349) and workplaces (16), schools are the most prevalent current source of recorded clusters"

Makes total sense, 13 clusters from schools............... 349 from private homes......... most kids are getting covid at home.

Boggles

Augeo wrote: »

Not really, a close contact is within 2m for in excess of 15 minutes, you don't catch Covid from walking past someone.

That wishy washy nonsense has been updated last week with more wishy washy nonsense.

Spending more than 2 hours in an indoor space with someone who has COVID-19 will sometimes count as close or casual contact. This could be an office or a classroom. But it will depend on the size of the room and other factors. Public health doctors or contact tracers will let you know if you are at risk during contact tracing and public health risk assessments.

Size of the room?

I could be wrong here but I have yet to hear of a public doctor or tracer heading to a school with a measuring tape.

wirelessdude01

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

My corn flakes are all over the kitchen floor after reading that.

You obviously don't know how close contacts work in our schools.

You dropped your cornflakes a few post ago

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Yet there have been nearly 900 cases reported in the age range 5-14 since schools went back according to the figures reported. This doesn't include the majority of 2nd level children as they are included in the 15-24 age range.

Figures all here.


https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/surveillance/covid-1914-dayepidemiologyreports/

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Apologies, I quoted the 15-24 number in error.

Boggles

Augeo wrote: »

"After private homes (349) and workplaces (16), schools are the most prevalent current source of recorded clusters"

Makes total sense, 13 clusters from schools............... 349 from private homes......... most kids are getting covid at home.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest, weighted there is far more homes and work places in Ireland than schools.

What do you reckon?

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

That wishy washy nonsense has been updated last week with more wishy washy nonsense.



Size of the room?

I could be wrong here but I have yet to hear of a public doctor or tracer heading to a school with a measuring tape.

The 2m 15 minute thing is the wishy washy nonsense we are all adhering to.

The facts and numbers are all there folks and they make total sense.........

4,328 children and teachers have been tested and the positivity rate in school cases has been 1.9%......80 odd cases


264 cases in total linked to schools

In the past week....... "After private homes (349) and workplaces (16), schools are the most prevalent current source of recorded clusters"

Makes total sense, 13 clusters from schools............... 349 from private homes.........

wirelessdude01

Augeo wrote: »

You dropped your cornflakes a few post ago

Again, no idea how close contacts work in schools.

Boggles

Augeo wrote: »

The 2m 15 minute thing is the wishy washy nonsense we are all adhering to.

You wrongly claimed that was the sole criteria for close contacts, I merely corrected you and highlighted the relevant criteria.


You're welcome.

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest, weighted there is far more homes and work places in Ireland than schools.

What do you reckon?

13 clusters is a tiny number. there are absolutely loads of schools nationwide and we've folk in here spieling on about " But if you look at homes, there are only between 2 and probably 8 people you can catch it from. In school there are thousands"

Again, for those who won't accept it........... 4,328 children and teachers have been tested and the positivity rate in school cases has been 1.9%......80 odd cases

Blondini

Augeo wrote: »

"THE HSE HAS said more than 4,000 children and teachers have been tested for the coronavirus since schools re-opened, with 264 cases in total linked to schools."

That would be the 80 odd cases passing the virus on....... R number is about 1.7.

The number is well over 200, not 80.

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

You wrongly claimed that was the sole criteria for close contacts, I merely corrected you and highlighted the relevant criteria.


You're welcome.

Sole criteria? You stated it was wishy washy nonsense, it's criteria or it's wishy washy nonsense make up your mind

Boggles

Augeo wrote: »

13 clusters is a tiny number.

Sure there is only 7 clusters in pubs.

But they are the first to close.

Strange that isn't it?

It's like the actions are not actually based on the recorded "evidence".

But maybe more nuanced.

covid20

Very hard to respect the teachers here who are very vocal about it all being a joke but dutifully go to work regardless. I was never one to disrespect teachers previously.

Did I read that there was some form of strike over the summer?

Some smokescreen from government with all that private home clusters...obviously it entered the home via work/school/community somehow.

Tragic incompetence.

Education is a luxury not a necessity when faced with a situation like this. The economic thinking is completely wrong as the economy will slowly die as the situation drags and drags and drags and this is plain to see for anyone with a shred of cop on.

Living with it is pure fantasy.

Boggles

Augeo wrote: »

Sole criteria? You stated it was wishy washy nonsense, it's criteria or it's wishy washy nonsense make up your mind

Ammmmm. It can be both.

Blondini

Blondini wrote: »

The number is well over 200, not 80.

Oh my.

THE HSE HAS said more than 4,000 children and teachers have been tested for the coronavirus since schools re-opened, with 264 cases in total linked to schools

4,328 children and teachers have been tested and the positivity rate in school cases has been 1.9%.

The 80 odd cases passed it on to others, those cases were close contacts of the 80 odd bringing about the statement 264 cases in total linked to schools.

It's really simple stuff if ye read it and think about it.

Mary is 9 and tested positive, Mary's Mum and Dad were her close contacts, they were tested also and they were positive. The Mum and Dad's cases are linked to the school Mary was in

downthemiddle

covid20 wrote: »

Very hard to respect the teachers here who are very vocal about it all being a joke but dutifully go to work regardless. I was never one to disrespect teachers previously.

Did I read that there was some form of strike over the summer?

Some smokescreen from government with all that private home clusters...obviously it entered the home via work/school/community somehow.

Tragic incompetence.

Education is a luxury not a necessity when faced with a situation like this. The economic thinking is completely wrong as the economy will slowly die as the situation drags and drags and drags and this is plain to see for anyone with a shred of cop on.

Living with it is pure fantasy.

I wonder who this could be.

covid20

downthemiddle wrote: »

I wonder who this could be.

Your local friendly realist

Blondini

Augeo wrote: »

Oh my.

THE HSE HAS said more than 4,000 children and teachers have been tested for the coronavirus since schools re-opened, with 264 cases in total linked to schools

4,328 children and teachers have been tested and the positivity rate in school cases has been 1.9%.

The 80 odd cases passed it on to others, those cases were close contacts of the 80 odd bringing about the statement 264 cases in total linked to schools.

It's really simple stuff if ye read it and think about it.

Mary is 9 and tested positive, Mary's Mum and Dad were her close contacts, they were tested also and they were positive. The Mum and Dad's cases are linked to the school Mary was in

Don't 'oh my' me sunshine.

Read back on the thread before embarrassing yourself further.

There are over 200 schools with at least confirmed case.

Understand?

'Oh my' indeed.

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

Sure there is only 7 clusters in pubs.

But they are the first to close.

Strange that isn't it?

It's like the actions are not actually based on the recorded "evidence".

But maybe more nuanced.

So you want the schools to close ?
That seems to be the train of thought in here.

wirelessdude01

Augeo wrote: »

So you want the schools to close ?
That seems to be the train of thought in here.

Only good people like yourself mention school closures.

downthemiddle

covid20 wrote: »

Your local friendly realist

Welcome back, although I expect it will be short lived. We missed your unique insight into industrial relations.

Boggles

Augeo wrote: »

So you want the schools to close ?
That seems to be the train of thought in here.

The reality of the situation has absolutely nothing to do with what I want or don't want.

You do understand that right?

But I suggest you read at least some of the thread before making assumptions.

Good lad.

Blondini

Blondini wrote: »

Don't 'oh my' me sunshine.........

Boggles wrote: »

......

Good lad.

Lol, teacher talk. Some shower ye are.

4,328 children and teachers have been tested and the positivity rate in school cases has been 1.9%.

Blondini wrote: »

There are over 200 schools with at least confirmed case........

A student attending a school contracted Covid from outside the school, think about it sunshine

Boggles wrote: »

.................

But I suggest you read at least some of the thread before making assumptions.

........

I'm making no assumptions.

covid20

downthemiddle wrote: »

Welcome back, although I expect it will be short lived. We missed your unique insight into industrial relations.

Time has value, so does health.

I'm boggled by all the suckers here still complaining ad infinitum and not acting when the inevitable is playing out as expected.

Boggles

Augeo wrote: »

Lol, teacher talk. Some shower ye are.

Augeo wrote: »

I'm making no assumptions.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

That's fact not an assumption.

Disappointing to see teachers carry on like that on a public forum.

Boggles

Augeo wrote: »

That's fact not an assumption.

Disappointing to see teachers carry on like that on a public forum.

You are making a show of yourself lad.

Also it seems you don't actually know what a fact is.

:pac:

Blondini

Boggles wrote: »

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Such original ideas he has too.

Let's try get back on topic and ignore it.

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

You are making a show of yourself lad.

Also it seems you don't actually know what a fact is.

:pac:

Apologies to upset Biggles, lad

Boggles wrote: »

Of course it doesn't.

But when you look at the actual number of kids who have tested positive in that time frame the only logical conclusion is the majority of Irish children testing positive are now home schooled. Weird that.

Also if they have only tested 4000 odd kids since the start of September, the positive rate among-st kids is around 15%. 5 times higher than the rest of the population.

None of the "figures" Reid provided makes any sense.

You can't make sense of any of the figure Reid provides, you are the one making a show of yourself lad

Kids tested due to being close contacts of cases outside school aren't inlcuded in the school tests referred to here "4,328 children and teachers have been tested and the positivity rate in school cases has been 1.9%"

JDD

There is one thing I agree with. It does seem that the Government/DoE are trying to surpress the names of schools that have positive case(s) in the school. I know they want to do this to stop over-worrying parents from taking their children out of the school, even though they might be in a different class and have less chance of catching it from the positive case than they do at the supermarket, but it does foster a sense that we don't have the full information.

I fully expect a class/pod in our primary school to close in the next month. I'm slightly surprised one hasn't closed already, there are 600 pupils in the school and we're in an area of Dublin that had high enough cases a couple of weeks ago.

Beasty

Blondini wrote: »

Nah, not after you ended up crying the last time.

Night.

Threabanned

teachinggal123

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Only good people like yourself mention school closures.

Teachers in my school are openly discussing school closures at this stage. Schools were always going to close before Christmas ... I think most people knew that (including all the teachers and most of the parents I know).

Before anyone asks what I'm advocating ... I describe this below. This is for the benefit of children, their families and teachers alike.

1. Close all the schools immediately for the entire month of October. This will be controversial, but we are heading for closure anyway. Closing now just means less people sick, and will allow the Govt to make a plan for online/hybrid.
2. The Govt get their sh1t together very quickly and develop a comprehensive, standardized online learning plan. This would be agreed with the teachers unions and compulsory for all teachers. Give hardware/laptops to those who need it, and make the schools available for teachers who don't have broadband at home.
3. Teachers to receive comprehensive training in hybrid/online teaching through October. This will also give teachers time to plan for taking their classes and materials online.
4. Get everyone back to school using a hybrid/online model from November. The fine detail of this would have to be worked out, but would probably mean some learning at home and also some attendance at school (maybe on a week-on-week-off basis).
5. All of this to be supported by properly resourced cleaning procedures for schools, and high quality PPE for teachers and other school staff.

I know this is not a perfect plan and will mean horrible inconvenience for the month of October, but we are heading for closure of schools anyway. At least my proposal will mean that schools will reopen more safely in November with a plan for online/hybrid.

We cannot have the same situation as last March when the schools closed suddenly with absolutely no plan. Parents are unlikely to accept that again ... and most here will agree that the teaching was *uneven* at best with some teachers trying and others doing nothing.

BTW if anyone is looking to allocate blame, this all falls squarely at the feet of the Govt (not us teachers). They had an opportunity to plan for this over the Summer and did f33k all. Now we have the current horrible, unsustainable situation that has put us all in danger.

alentejo

teachinggal123 wrote: »

Teachers in my school are openly discussing school closures at this stage. Schools were always going to close before Christmas ... I think most people knew that (including all the teachers and most of the parents I know).

Before anyone asks what I'm advocating ... I describe this below. This is for the benefit of children, their families and teachers alike.

1. Close all the schools immediately for the entire month of October. This will be controversial, but we are heading for closure anyway. Closing now just means less people sick, and will allow the Govt to make a plan for online/hybrid.
2. The Govt get their sh1t together very quickly and develop a comprehensive, standardized online learning plan. This would be agreed with the teachers unions and compulsory for all teachers. Give hardware/laptops to those who need it, and make the schools available for teachers who don't have broadband at home.
3. Teachers to receive comprehensive training in hybrid/online teaching through October. This will also give teachers time to plan for taking their classes and materials online.
4. Get everyone back to school using a hybrid/online model from November. The fine detail of this would have to be worked out, but would probably mean some learning at home and also some attendance at school (maybe on a week-on-week-off basis).
5. All of this to be supported by properly resourced cleaning procedures for schools, and high quality PPE for teachers and other school staff.

I know this is not a perfect plan and will mean horrible inconvenience for the month of October, but we are heading for closure of schools anyway. At least my proposal will mean that schools will reopen more safely in November with a plan for online/hybrid.

We cannot have the same situation as last March when the schools closed suddenly with absolutely no plan. Parents are unlikely to accept that again ... and most here will agree that the teaching was *uneven* at best with some teachers trying and others doing nothing.

BTW if anyone is looking to allocate blame, this all falls squarely at the feet of the Govt (not us teachers). They had an opportunity to plan for this over the Summer and did f33k all. Now we have the current horrible, unsustainable situation that has put us all in danger.

The Covid Crisis will last 2 to4 years. We cant sacrifice our childrens education which will have long term outcomes for decades to come.

Yes some classes, pods or even in some instances schoools may be required to close, however the closures should be no more than 2 to 3 weeks. We must as a society keep the schools open.

covid20

alentejo wrote: »

The Covid Crisis will last 2 to4 years. We cant sacrifice our childrens education which will have long term outcomes for decades to come.

Yes some classes, pods or even in some instances schoools may be required to close, however the closures should be no more than 2 to 3 weeks. We must as a society keep the schools open.

I would say under no circumstances should we entertain the notion of 2 to 4 years. Absolute madness and a total lack of ambition.

Like driving Malin to Mizen on a flat tyre.

teachinggal123

alentejo wrote: »

The Covid Crisis will last 2 to4 years. We cant sacrifice our childrens education which will have long term outcomes for decades to come.

Yes some classes, pods or even in some instances schoools may be required to close, however the closures should be no more than 2 to 3 weeks. We must as a society keep the schools open.

I don’t agree.

The current situation is unsustainable. Schools are weeks away from closure imho.

Universities have online/hybrid for the foreseeable future. This can work for schools too if done properly with full buyin from teachers, parents and children.

History Queen

teachinggal123 wrote: »

I don’t agree.

The current situation is unsustainable. Schools are weeks away from closure imho.

Universities have online/hybrid for the foreseeable future. This can work for schools too if done properly with full buyin from teachers, parents and children.

I also wonder how they are going to address the issue for next years leaving certs of unequal access to the curriculum.

ie. Student in school A was at home for8 weeks due to school being closed at different period due to covid, student in school B was in school all yearas their school didn't need to close. Both students expected to sit same exam.

If there wasan agreed distance/blended learning strategy student A would be at a limited disadvantage but without that, they could be significantly disadvantaged through no fault of their own.

Beasty

Beasty wrote: »

Do not post in this thread again

raind threadban lifted following discussion with user

teachinggal123

History Queen wrote: »

I also wonder how they are going to address the issue for next years leaving certs of unequal access to the curriculum.

ie. Student in school A was at home for8 weeks due to school being closed at different period due to covid, student in school B was in school all yearas their school didn't need to close. Both students expected to sit same exam.

If there was an agreed distance/blended learning strategy student A would be at a limited disadvantage but without that, they could be significantly disadvantaged through no fault of their own.

Exactly.

wirelessdude01

History Queen wrote: »

I also wonder how they are going to address the issue for next years leaving certs of unequal access to the curriculum.

ie. Student in school A was at home for8 weeks due to school being closed at different period due to covid, student in school B was in school all yearas their school didn't need to close. Both students expected to sit same exam.

If there wasan agreed distance/blended learning strategy student A would be at a limited disadvantage but without that, they could be significantly disadvantaged through no fault of their own.

Always said the curriculum should have been narrowed for the 20/21 leaving certs.

hello2020

teachinggal123 wrote: »

I don’t agree.

The current situation is unsustainable. Schools are weeks away from closure imho.

Universities have online/hybrid for the foreseeable future. This can work for schools too if done properly with full buyin from teachers, parents and children.

well said..why small innocent kids are put in danger of contacting virus while adults are asked to stay apart

hello2020

alentejo wrote: »

The Covid Crisis will last 2 to4 years. We cant sacrifice our childrens education which will have long term outcomes for decades to come.

Yes some classes, pods or even in some instances schoools may be required to close, however the closures should be no more than 2 to 3 weeks. We must as a society keep the schools open.

What about pre-school and junior infant kids? they will not lose much if they are sent to school for couple of days a week only till some vaccine is available..

really difficult to understand why are innocent kids are put in danger of contacting the virus while adults WFH

Icyseanfitz

hello2020 wrote: »

What about pre-school and junior infant kids? they will not lose much if they are sent to school for couple of days a week only till some vaccine is available..

really difficult to understand why are innocent kids are put in danger of contacting the virus while adults WFH

Kids are in school so that parents can work, that's it really at the moment.

wirelessdude01

hello2020 wrote: »

really difficult to understand why are innocent kids are put in danger of contacting the virus while adults WFH

Education and economy. Which one comes first depends on the person answering. They are certainly interchangeable but also connected.

morebabies

Can I ask 2 dumb questions?

A household of six or seven, 2 adults and 4 or 5 children. Let's say one child, Child A tests positive and so the household isolates for the 14 days but no one else has symptoms or tests positive. By day 10, a second family member shows symptoms and tests positive, and maybe other family members show symptoms in the days to come . Should child A still isolate and stay off school for the whole duration of the virus circulating around their home, which could take weeks? I would think yes, even if they recover, could they not still bring the virus to school on their clothes, etc.?

Next: if a child tests positive, gets over the worst part of the illness, but still has a lingering bad cough 4 weeks out from diagnosis, could they still be contagious?

Just thinking of how viruses normally travel around our household, and also when kids are asthmatic, their coughs tend to drag on for weeks.

alentejo

teachinggal123 wrote: »

I don’t agree.

The current situation is unsustainable. Schools are weeks away from closure imho.

Universities have online/hybrid for the foreseeable future. This can work for schools too if done properly with full buyin from teachers, parents and children.

Do we have data to back that up? Yes, more children have caught Covid over the past few weeks. This was to be expected. Have any/many teachers caught Covid.

We need to live with this disease. If we are closing all bars, restaurants, cafes and other social outlets, so be it, however we cant as a society just abandon schools. Like I said, we may need to close some schools for up to 3 weeks,

Icyseanfitz

alentejo wrote: »

Do we have data to back that up? Yes, more children have caught Covid over the past few weeks. This was to be expected. Have any/many teachers caught Covid.

We need to live with this disease. If we are closing all bars, restaurants, cafes and other social outlets, so be it, however we cant as a society just abandon schools. Like I said, we may need to close some schools for up to 3 weeks,

We do not need to abandon schools, we just need to look at some form of a blended learning plan for the moment in order for children to safely receive their education.

wirelessdude01

I disagree that schools need to close. Haven't heard any teachers or parents talking about wholescale school closures.

I do think that numbers in schools at secondary and possibly upper primary level will possibly need to be reduced at some stage.

Half in, half out, blended, remote. Whatever you want to call it should have been properly teased out while the dept had time as a workable plan B for when it was needed. Wasn't as if they spent those months properly fleshing out the calculated grades as today's fiasco shows.

covid20

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Education and economy. Which one comes first depends on the person answering. They are certainly interchangeable but also connected.

1. Health.
2. Economy.
3. Education

All interdependent

deliege

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

I disagree that schools need to close. Haven't heard any teachers or parents talking about wholescale school closures.

I do think that numbers in schools at secondary and possibly upper primary level will possibly need to be reduced at some stage.

Half in, half out, blended, remote. Whatever you want to call it should have been properly teased out while the dept had time as a workable plan B for when it was needed. Wasn't as if they spent those months properly fleshing out the calculated grades as today's fiasco shows.

Totally agree. And totally do not understand why parents who are in a position to help with that (i.e. having their kids following school curriculum partly or totally from home, thus decreasing numbers in class) and are only asking for minimum support are not only not supported but told straight away "no, or register for homeschooling, no support".

Look at this FAQ. Some answers are really borderline obtuse, imho.

https://www.tusla.ie/tess/faqs/