How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

Icyseanfitz

meeeeh wrote: »

It's primary, not that small, not very rural and in the more challenging part of town. I'm not saying everywhere is the same but I don't think many people have any desire for schools to close or move to reduced hours.

No one wants schools to close but near everyone ive talked to agrees that the government should have planned for some form of blended approach to reduce the risk to all involved in schools, wider community included. Problem is the government sat on their arses and did nothing, so now the public believe the only way schools can work at the moment is full steam ahead and masks and thats all we can do, which is complete bull**** when compared to what other countries are doing.

Icyseanfitz

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

How about you respond to the huge drop in cases in Louth lately and the 14 cases in 8 counties today first?

When it was claimed cases are rising "everywhere" and you all gave yourselves a pat on the back and multiple likes for that out and out lie.

I await.

Cases are rising daily/weekly at a national level, we are a small country, i apologize if county louth is doing okay and i didn't research covid on a county by county basis.

wirelessdude01

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

When it was claimed cases are rising "everywhere" and you all gave yourselves a pat on the back and multiple likes for that out and out lie.

I await.

As you have an issue with the use of the word "everywhere" I'd advise you take it up with the ACMO seeing as he is the one who used it.

Today was the first day that he actually seemed flustered/edgy with regards to numbers and how things are planning out.

freak scence

covid20 wrote: »

The only way that does not involve illogical loopholes that we as a country are terrible for is to close everything and pay people to stay at home. Short, swift, hard and focused attack on the virus before it gets more of hand.

Expensive short term, well worth it long term.

did that didn't work

Icyseanfitz

freak scence wrote: »

did that didn't work

Actually it worked quite well, but then every thing opened up too quickly imo

jrosen

It didnt work, because as soon as society opened up we started to see an increase in cases. We have no reason to think it would be any different if we shut the whole country down again.
Businesses are already on their knees, many have not survived. If we shut again we will loose more.

irishblessing

jrosen wrote: »

It didnt work, because as soon as society opened up we started to see an increase in cases. We have no reason to think it would be any different if we shut the whole country down again.
Businesses are already on their knees, many have not survived. If we shut again we will loose more.

Define "work." Our hospitals weren't beyond capacity and were able to cope. We're not trying to eliminate it. We need to prevent an overrun of the HSE.

We are doing ok economically on the whole.

meeeeh

irishblessing wrote: »

Define "work." Our hospitals weren't beyond capacity and were able to cope. We're not trying to eliminate it. We need to prevent an overrun of the HSE.

We are doing ok economically on the whole.

I agree that we need to keep hospitals functioning.

On the economy part I would be very worried. Small hospitality businesses are hit very hard, especially those relying on tourism and office workers. While they don't contribute as much as multinationals to GDP they employ an awful lot of people who would otherwise find it hard to find employment. Add to that other small businesses relying on state subsidies to keep them going. With messy Brexit looming we could suddenly become less attractive for multinationals and then you have perfect storm. I know we can borrow cheap at the moment but we could be hit very hard at the beginning of 2021.

Lockdown in Ireland was already harsher and lasted other than in many other countries. I really hope they will sort out testing because otherwise we could pay very expensive price later this/next year.

wirelessdude01

Wonder will the return of Tony next week have any if much thinking with regards to schools?

average_runner

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Wonder will the return of Tony next week have any if much thinking with regards to schools?

Not at all, schools need to stay open. Our kids schools are doing great, 2 cases between the school.


Once the adults behave the schools will be mainly ok

wirelessdude01

average_runner wrote: »

Not at all, schools need to stay open. Our kids schools are doing great, 2 cases between the school.


Once the adults behave the schools will be mainly ok

Did I mention school closures?

Why some posters constantly zone in on this is beyond me.

average_runner

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Did I mention school closures?

Why some posters constantly zone in on this is beyond me.

Keep your cool. Never said you did.

I meant that his approach wouldn't change to that

The_Brood

jrosen wrote: »

It didnt work, because as soon as society opened up we started to see an increase in cases. We have no reason to think it would be any different if we shut the whole country down again.
Businesses are already on their knees, many have not survived. If we shut again we will loose more.

Depends on the kind of shut down. If it's the half-arsed, "everything is closed but we can't stop people from mingling and doing whatever" - you're absolutely right that's useless and won't work.

If however it is China style, 2-3 week total shutdown in hazmat suit to kill the virus - which worked and China is now free to continue life, while we are not - that, if done very correctly, should restore us back to life.

Washout

I am having constant arguements with my wife over kids going to school. its causing stress in our relationship.

according to policy children must go to school if they themselves are not high risk but if there is a parent or grandparent high risk at home they have to go to school.

I had cancer and am an asthmatic so am considered in the high risk category. but I am also the logical one at home. My wife wants to keep our children at home but I want them to go to school as i feel their education is far more impportant than the risk. especially for one of my daughters who started 1st Year.

we spoke to the school and they said that kids must go to school as it is govermnent policy.

I am just wondering (a) what are the consequences if we dont send our kids to school or (b) is there anyone we can talk to about what options we have

facehugger99

irishblessing wrote: »

Define "work." Our hospitals weren't beyond capacity and were able to cope. We're not trying to eliminate it. We need to prevent an overrun of the HSE.

We are doing ok economically on the whole.

Sure, as long as the meaning of 'ok' is stretched to include for going 10's of billions of euros into debt.

irishblessing

facehugger99 wrote: »

Sure, as long as the meaning of 'ok' is stretched to include for going 10's of billions of euros into debt.

We already were billions of debt in 2019 before the coronavirus hit.

In 2018, the national debt of Ireland was around 226.92 billion. For comparison, the Greek debt amounted to approximately 303 billion euros that same year.

The Irish Republic has repaid on schedule more than a third of the £3.2 billion (€3.7 billion) bilateral loan it received specifically from the UK under its international bailout at the start of the decade, a UK government report has confirmed. (as of Oct 2019).

"In terms of GDP per capita, Ireland is ranked as one of the wealthiest countries in the OECD and the EU-27, at 4th in the OECD-28 rankings. In terms of GNP per capita, a better measure of national income, Ireland ranks below the OECD average, despite significant growth in recent years, at 10th in the OECD-28 rankings."
Wikepedia

Your point?

irishblessing

Washout wrote: »

I am having constant arguements with my wife over kids going to school. its causing stress in our relationship.

according to policy children must go to school if they themselves are not high risk but if there is a parent or grandparent high risk at home they have to go to school.

I had cancer and am an asthmatic so am considered in the high risk category. but I am also the logical one at home. My wife wants to keep our children at home but I want them to go to school as i feel their education is far more impportant than the risk. especially for one of my daughters who started 1st Year.

we spoke to the school and they said that kids must go to school as it is govermnent policy.

I am just wondering (a) what are the consequences if we dont send our kids to school or (b) is there anyone we can talk to about what options we have

EH... what? The Irish Constitution states that parents have primary responsibility for educating their children. It guarantees the parents' right and duty to provide for their children's education. ... According to the Act there is no absolute legal obligation on children to attend school or on their parents to send them to school.

You can homeschool if you want- but I'll say it's a pity and a disgrace that the Irish government haven't provided a proper plan b in hybrid remote learning for families who need better options.

You can choose to educate your children at home if you want. You would need to notify Tusla and their school. You will have an interview from Tusla to answer to how you plan to educate them, but it seems they are very bogged down with the times that are in it so once you notify them and the school you are legally covered and away you go.

nothing

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

Is the testing capacity better in the North I wonder? Either way their numbers will have a direct impact on our numbers in the south.

Testing capacity in the North is worse than here - they don't test close contacts unless they get symptoms, for example.

(a friend in the North got it a few weeks ago, none of his household was tested and I was really surprised)

morebabies

Washout wrote: »

I am having constant arguements with my wife over kids going to school. its causing stress in our relationship.

according to policy children must go to school if they themselves are not high risk but if there is a parent or grandparent high risk at home they have to go to school.

I had cancer and am an asthmatic so am considered in the high risk category. but I am also the logical one at home. My wife wants to keep our children at home but I want them to go to school as i feel their education is far more impportant than the risk. especially for one of my daughters who started 1st Year.

we spoke to the school and they said that kids must go to school as it is govermnent policy.

I am just wondering (a) what are the consequences if we dont send our kids to school or (b) is there anyone we can talk to about what options we have

That's incredibly stressful, a lot of your questions are answered at the link below. I'm very worried for my family too, more for their health as they're all asthmatics, seriously considering homeschooling...

https://www.tusla.ie/tess/faqs/#Top

meeeeh

irishblessing wrote: »

We already were billions of debt in 2019 before the coronavirus hit.

In 2018, the national debt of Ireland was around 226.92 billion. For comparison, the Greek debt amounted to approximately 303 billion euros that same year.

The Irish Republic has repaid on schedule more than a third of the £3.2 billion (€3.7 billion) bilateral loan it received specifically from the UK under its international bailout at the start of the decade, a UK government report has confirmed. (as of Oct 2019).

"In terms of GDP per capita, Ireland is ranked as one of the wealthiest countries in the OECD and the EU-27, at 4th in the OECD-28 rankings. In terms of GNP per capita, a better measure of national income, Ireland ranks below the OECD average, despite significant growth in recent years, at 10th in the OECD-28 rankings."
Wikepedia

Your point?

National debt is measured in % of gdp and normally any debts gets repaid by borrowing more (when interest rates are not prohibitive). Absolute numbers don't matter but in Ireland percentage of gdp isn't great indicator either. In 2016 our economy grew magic 26% mostly due to multinationals funneling profits through Ireland. Something Krugman named Leprechaun Economics.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leprechaun_economics

Edit: gdp growth was 26% not 34% as stated before

irishblessing

meeeeh wrote: »

National debt is measured in % of gdp and normally any debts gets repaid by borrowing more (when interest rates are not prohibitive). Absolute numbers don't matter but in Ireland percentage of gdp isn't great indicator either. In 2016 our economy grew magic 34% mostly due to multinationals funneling profits through Ireland. Something Krugman named Leprechaun Economics.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leprechaun_economics

snore...:rolleyes:....

meeeeh

irishblessing wrote: »

snore...:rolleyes:....

Yeah the same type of snore that drowned the Celtic Tiger. Who needs caution when money just magically appears.

(And yes I think it was necessary to throw money at Corona but do not think for a second the money three will keep on giving).

...In the case involving the school children the first pupil was infected within their family but the second child who tested positive in the same class was a mystery because there was no evidence of a connection between the two.

However, a teacher provided the clue when they said the children swapped desks during one class so that one of the child was nearer the blackboard,

The virus may have been passed on through an infected surface on the desk...

...Meanwhile, a Covid-19 outbreak at a school has directly affected about 20 staff and students.

It closed the school temporarily - the only one of 4,000 to be shut as a result of the disease since the new term began a month ago.

There were about 20 cases amongst staff and students linked to the outbreak, according to the HSE, which is still actively involved.

The school has since re-opened, with some restrictions to returns still currently in place.

Latest HSE figure show that cases of Covid have been detected in 140 of the country’s 4,000 mainstream schools since pupils returned.

Some 105 primary schools and 35 post-primary schools have undergone, or are undergoing, mass testing - one of the key public health responses when Covid-19 is identified in an education facility.

As well as that, Covid-19 has been identified in 39 childcare facilities and eight special education facilities, bringing the overall number of education settings where testing has been carried out to 187.

More than 4,455 students and teachers from the 187 settings, have, so far, undergone testing to check whether they had the disease.


https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/covid-19-may-have-spread-in-school-when-students-swapped-desks-briefing-hears-as-442-new-cases-and-four-deaths-confirmed-39579963.html

wirelessdude01

Balagan1 wrote: »

...In the case involving the school children the first pupil was infected within their family but the second child who tested positive in the same class was a mystery because there was no evidence of a connection between the two.

However, a teacher provided the clue when they said the children swapped desks during one class so that one of the child was nearer the blackboard,

The virus may have been passed on through an infected surface on the desk...

...Meanwhile, a Covid-19 outbreak at a school has directly affected about 20 staff and students.

It closed the school temporarily - the only one of 4,000 to be shut as a result of the disease since the new term began a month ago.

There were about 20 cases amongst staff and students linked to the outbreak, according to the HSE, which is still actively involved.

The school has since re-opened, with some restrictions to returns still currently in place.

Latest HSE figure show that cases of Covid have been detected in 140 of the country’s 4,000 mainstream schools since pupils returned.

Some 105 primary schools and 35 post-primary schools have undergone, or are undergoing, mass testing - one of the key public health responses when Covid-19 is identified in an education facility.

As well as that, Covid-19 has been identified in 39 childcare facilities and eight special education facilities, bringing the overall number of education settings where testing has been carried out to 187.

More than 4,455 students and teachers from the 187 settings, have, so far, undergone testing to check whether they had the disease.


https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/covid-19-may-have-spread-in-school-when-students-swapped-desks-briefing-hears-as-442-new-cases-and-four-deaths-confirmed-39579963.html

Well the story is incorrect when it states that only one has had to fully shut. I'm aware of three.

Wonder were the students who swapped seats at primary or secondary level?

khalessi

https://twitter.com/MartinaBroe1/status/1311760730652372992

average_runner

I have to say the principal in our kids school is top class. They had their 3rd covid case yesterday since they returned back to school, once the principal knew about the kid, he contacted everyone in that class first, notified the close contacts first and then sent an email to all the parents of the school to let them know.


24 hrs later HSE still hasn't contacted the close contacts. Close contacts are at home at the moment as the best approach



A strong principal will do no matter what for his/her pupils

wirelessdude01

average_runner wrote: »

I have to say the principal in our kids school is top class. They had their 3rd covid case yesterday since they returned back to school, once the principal knew about the kid, he contacted everyone in that class first, notified the close contacts first and then sent an email to all the parents of the school to let them know.


24 hrs later HSE still hasn't contacted the close contacts. Close contacts are at home at the moment as the best approach



A strong principal will do no matter what for his/her pupils

This at primary or secondary level?

How many students did the principal decide were close contacts?

average_runner

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

This at primary or secondary level?

How many students did the principal decide were close contacts?

Primary school and HSE worked together to identify the close contacts, but principal had contacted them, HSE hadn't so far.


Number wise i don't know as he didnt say in the email, but there are rumours on the whats app groups, looks around 6.

wirelessdude01

average_runner wrote: »

Primary school and HSE worked together to identify the close contacts, but principal had contacted them, HSE hadn't so far.


Number wise i don't know as he didnt say in the email, but there are rumours on the whats app groups, looks around 6.

Just as well the school was proactive. Same happened in a school that I know of. Teacher and parents of the entire class were only contacted by the contact tracers 6 days after the school had been informed.

Thankfully he principal had been proactive and had told them they were all considered close contacts. Tests had been done and results received by the time they were officially notified as being close contacts.

average_runner

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Just as well the school was proactive. Same happened in a school that I know of. Teacher and parents of the entire class were only contacted by the contact tracers 6 days after the school had been informed.

Thankfully he principal had been proactive and had told them they were all considered close contacts. Tests had been done and results received by the time they were officially notified as being close contacts.

Parents have to back the school in a call like this. Different times now but if the principal believes its safer for them to be at home, so be it.

JDD

average_runner wrote: »

Parents have to back the school in a call like this. Different times now but if the principal believes its safer for them to be at home, so be it.

Completely agree.

Tell me this, if our principal contacted me to say one of the kids was a close contact of a confirmed case, but the HSE has yet to contact me, can I get my kid tested? Even if they have no symptoms? I'm not sure my GP would refer me for a test if the HSE hadn't contacted me and the child had no symptoms.

JimmyVik

JDD wrote: »

Completely agree.

Tell me this, if our principal contacted me to say one of the kids was a close contact of a confirmed case, but the HSE has yet to contact me, can I get my kid tested? Even if they have no symptoms? I'm not sure my GP would refer me for a test if the HSE hadn't contacted me and the child had no symptoms.

No. Had exactly that situation. No test.

irishblessing

JDD wrote: »

Completely agree.

Tell me this, if our principal contacted me to say one of the kids was a close contact of a confirmed case, but the HSE has yet to contact me, can I get my kid tested? Even if they have no symptoms? I'm not sure my GP would refer me for a test if the HSE hadn't contacted me and the child had no symptoms.

Couldn't you say you had been contacted by HSE... how would they know otherwise?

JDD

irishblessing wrote: »

Couldn't you say you had been contacted by HSE... how would they know otherwise?

I don't know. Wouldn't the HSE give you some sort of reference number to give to your GP? Otherwise any crackpot hypochondriac could contact their GP and get a test every two weeks saying that they were contacted by the HSE.

wirelessdude01

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-09-30/largest-covid-19-transmission-study-highlights-super-spreaders?_amp=true&__twitter_impression=true

mvl

irishblessing wrote: »

Couldn't you say you had been contacted by HSE... how would they know otherwise?

I would assume this can be checked on some database. So if we're talking about bending the rules when the rules are stupid (e.g. principal doing the common sense, rather than waiting for HSE as per rules) assume there are other less traceable ways to achieve this ?

combat14

Time to close the land border with NI / UK ...?

Northern Ireland reports 934 coronavirus cases in a day, double the previous record high

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/northern-ireland-reports-934-coronavirus-cases-in-a-day-double-the-previous-record-high-39582392.html

Serious talk again of closing schools there after mid term..

khalessi

World Teacher Day 5th October normally ignored this side of the world. Would be nice to recognise the work done by school staff doing their best to keep the schools open

appledrop

770 positive cases in Northumbria University and only 78 had symptoms.

Aren't we soooooooooo lucky that it's a different form of Covid 19 we seem to get here in Ireland that doesn't effect educational institutions?

I hope Dr. Glynn is reading that report this evening.

Jucifer

khalessi wrote: »

World Teacher Day 5th October normally ignored this side of the world. Would be nice to recognise the work done by school staff doing their best to keep the schools open

Fully agree. Many teachers and other childcare workers I know are scared about the whole situation. Not for themselves so much but for their parents, grandparents, babies, pregnant colleagues and the possibility that they might catch and transmit the virus. Yet they are going into a confined space every day in close contact with children from over 20 households while case numbers are rising, in most cases for hours on end with limited protection and doing their best for the children that they teach.

When a teacher has a young child with little English and can’t understand instructions, they don’t just sit at the top of the class they go down and help them.

There are many other sectors we need to recognise too but why not use the World Teacher Day to applaud teachers playing a strong role in keeping the country going during the second wave, educating our kids and getting on with things in a scary situation when many of us are comfortably working for home (myself included).

deiseindublin

As a teacher for 25+ years I find the World Teacher Day a bit twee and pretty much lip service.

Resource our schools better, give us proper contracts instead of years subbing, provide all schools with whiteboard markers instead of lots of teachers buying their own, maybe even warm classrooms. A box of donuts once a year just doesn't do it for me.

BonsaiKitten

Yeah I'm not sold on World Teacher Day either. Seems to be very popular in the USA where many teachers have far worse working conditions than we do here (thinking of places like Texas here, I'd know some teachers from there). A shout-out once a year while you continue to work in a punishing system ain't worth shít. Probably makes their admin team look good though and ticks a box on the paper work.

...Ghost...

Maybe October 5th will be a day that those who pistol whip teachers at every opportunity might just reflect for a split second on the hard work most teachers do. I know it's not the type of job I could do and the holidays just don't do enough to entice me enough to take a job like that. I would rather keep my sanity and choose my holidays too.

Jucifer

deiseindublin wrote: »

As a teacher for 25+ years I find the World Teacher Day a bit twee and pretty much lip service.

Resource our schools better, give us proper contracts instead of years subbing, provide all schools with whiteboard markers instead of lots of teachers buying their own, maybe even warm classrooms. A box of donuts once a year just doesn't do it for me.

You are obviously correct. I just meant in this current situation where everyone was recognising healthcare workers, shop workers, etc for working through the first wave. It might be nice for those who do nothing but criticise teachers to stop for a second and reflect on what they are doing for society during the coronavirus and the risks they are exposed to. A little recognition wouldn’t harm.

khalessi

deiseindublin wrote: »

As a teacher for 25+ years I find the World Teacher Day a bit twee and pretty much lip service.

Resource our schools better, give us proper contracts instead of years subbing, provide all schools with whiteboard markers instead of lots of teachers buying their own, maybe even warm classrooms. A box of donuts once a year just doesn't do it for me.

Yep I agree with this too, but coming on here since March the majority of what has been written has been negative about teachers. We have been told we are lazy and hiding from the virus. Well here we are, the schools are open 5 weeks and we are considered frontline workers just enough to keep schools open but not enough to even be givien the flu vaccine. Looks like Covid19 is not the only virus we are immune to.

Yes we need proper contracts, equal pay for LPTs, proper resources, not have to constantly dip our hands in our own pockets to pay for class resources, and we need proper classrooms. Perhaps the 5th of October could be used to highliught these issues, the doughnuts are just low hanging fruit. This is an opportunity to raise the real issues.

meeeeh

Just to point our that countries who clapped hardest for health workers like UK and Spain also did the worst in pandemic. Once people start showing appreciation neans you are usually in trouble.

Teachers weren't during the first wave and they are not yet now. It might happen but you will have to start dying because of your work first for people to clap.

Icyseanfitz

meeeeh wrote: »

Just to point our that countries who clapped hardest for health workers like UK and Spain also did the worst in pandemic. Once people start showing appreciation neans you are usually in trouble.

Teachers weren't during the first wave and they are not yet now. It might happen but you will have to start dying because of your work first for people to clap.

Ah sure, they will have cought covid in the pub or a restaurant or out partying with the college students, so it won't have been them doing their job that put them at risk, no need to clap for that.

meeeeh

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

Ah sure, they will have cought covid in the pub or a restaurant or out partying with the college students, so it won't have been them doing their job that put them at risk, no need to clap for that.

You can clap for whomever you want. Personally I consider clapping a pretty empty gesture.

You know who was great at that kind of stuff? Communist countries. They were great at celebrating proletariat, letting them work in poor conditions, paying them pittance and sticking them in prison when they suggested something great overlords didn't like to hear. You get away with that kind of stuff as long as you pat a few people on the head on 1st of May.

Icyseanfitz

meeeeh wrote: »

You can clap for whomever you want. Personally I consider clapping a pretty empty gesture.

You know who was great at that kind of stuff? Communist countries. They were great at celebrating proletariat, letting them work in poor conditions, paying them pittance and sticking them in prison when they suggested something great overlords didn't like to hear. You get away with that kind of stuff as long as you pat a few people on the head on 1st of May.

I complete agree

jimmytwotimes 2013

I've posted this before but all the sniping on here is merely white noise.

Shame the WUMs on here won't ever see teacher-student working relationships, people having a bit of craic and getting some work done each day, also watching how everyone has adapted calmly to sanitising, wearing masks etc.

Discussing with the students their observations on the pandemic, how news of Trump having covid was the talk of the school on Friday, how rubbish Man U are now, will the gaa season go ahead, or will the LC be cancelled this year (they all want it to go ahead in our place due to farce of predictive) etc.

The bond established in a school environment over the 5/6 years students spend with us is lost on those with a chip on their shoulder. Their loss.