How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

Mrsmum

Will Yam wrote: »

But I don’t think the solution you propose would solve your problem.

If you take a school in stranrolar (330+ cases/100,000) and a school in,say, skibereen (less than 5 cases/100,000), what benefit is it to either to know the average?

IT's not comparing individual schools I want but to know the growth in cases at say age 15 and then separately at age 22. They are completely different animals imo.

Will Yam

Mrsmum wrote: »

IT's not comparing individual schools I want but to know the growth in cases at say age 15 and then separately at age 22. They are completely different animals imo.

I understand that. But if you could get it broken down as you describe, what use is it to you. What would you do differently?

Icyseanfitz

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

If there's even the smallest possibility that kids aged 4-19 can spread this to each other, even the smallest sliver of a chance, it's happening in schools, working in a school with 800 students in small rooms and corridors would highlight this fact to anyone with a functioning level of intellect within 10 minutes of being in such a school. The fact that it's not being reported on should highlight it even more.

It’s happening everywhere, including schools, however as you say schools are the areas where 30 people may be in small confined rooms, but the fact that the rate of cases in school age children is not growing faster than the general population indicates this has not caused the issues people initially feared, and measures taken, while not perfect, are succeeding to a degree.

If we want zero Covid in schools, we lockdown the country for 8 weeks and seal the borders. Otherwise we will be living with cases in schools with the goal to minimise

Will Yam

Deleted User wrote: »

It’s happening everywhere, including schools, however as you say schools are the areas where 30 people may be in small confined rooms, but the fact that the rate of cases in school age children is not growing faster than the general population indicates this has not caused the issues people initially feared, and measures taken, while not perfect, are succeeding to a degree.

If we want zero Covid in schools, we lockdown the country for 8 weeks and seal the borders. Otherwise we will be living with cases in schools with the goal to minimise

We can’t seal the borders.

Mrsmum

Will Yam wrote: »

I understand that. But if you could get it broken down as you describe, what use is it to you. What would you do differently?

Well I'm not great with figures but I believe the 15-24 age group is one, if not the fastest growing group of cases. I want to know if my 15 year old is genuinely included in that or is he just lumped in with the true at risk group. I also want to get a better idea of the real growth in pp schools and I feel that picture is hidden in a group that has nothing to do with schools ie 24 year old adults.

wirelessdude01

Mrsmum wrote: »

Well I'm not great with figures but I believe the 15-24 age group is one, if not the fastest growing group of cases. I want to know if my 15 year old is genuinely included in that or is he just lumped in with the true at risk group. I also want to get a better idea of the real growth in pp schools and I feel that picture is hidden in a group that has nothing to do with schools ie 24 year old adults.

Should be done in the following categories. Preschool, primary school and then secondary school. Roughly 0-4, 5-12/13 and then 13-19.

Would give a more natural breakdown with regards to stages in people's lives.

irishblessing

Will Yam wrote: »

We can’t seal the borders.

Maybe not, but we could have stricter testing rules and quarantine measures.

Mrsmum

Mrsmum wrote: »

Well I'm not great with figures but I believe the 15-24 age group is one, if not the fastest growing group of cases. I want to know if my 15 year old is genuinely included in that or is he just lumped in with the true at risk group. I also want to get a better idea of the real growth in pp schools and I feel that picture is hidden in a group that has nothing to do with schools ie 24 year old adults.

The impression may be that cases are rising faster in 15-24 year olds, but it’s not the case. 24% of cases in the past 14 days have been in that age group. On the 2nd of September, the previous 14 days had 24% of cases in the 15-24 year old age bracket.

niamh247

Deleted User wrote: »

It’s happening everywhere, including schools, however as you say schools are the areas where 30 people may be in small confined rooms, but the fact that the rate of cases in school age children is not growing faster than the general population indicates this has not caused the issues people initially feared, and measures taken, while not perfect, are succeeding to a degree.

If we want zero Covid in schools, we lockdown the country for 8 weeks and seal the borders. Otherwise we will be living with cases in schools with the goal to minimise

The actual logic is like - we know schools do contribute to the spread but let's keep the schools open on top priority, just because we want to pretend business going as usual, with a secret plan of not giving any excuse or chance for our economy workers to be safe at home (kids are off their back).

This country is stuck in archaic ways of thinking and silly tricks.

When you say "succeeding to a degree" - you have no clue what you are talking about. Just some blind optimism....

niamh247

niamh247 wrote: »

The actual logic is like - we know schools do contribute to the spread but let's keep the schools open on top priority, just because we want to pretend business going as usual, with a secret plan of not giving any excuse for our economy workers a chance to be safe at home (kids are off their back).

This country is stuck in archaic ways of thinking and silly tricks.

Unfortunately it’s people social lives that are driving the cases, not workplaces or schools

niamh247

Deleted User wrote: »

Unfortunately it’s people social lives that are driving the cases, not workplaces or schools

You believe that just because govt says so? Why do you believe that schools don't spread the thing? Any strong evidence? Specifically, how about kids being asymptomatic carriers?

irishblessing

niamh247 wrote: »

The actual logic is like - we know schools do contribute to the spread but let's keep the schools open on top priority, just because we want to pretend business going as usual, with a secret plan of not giving any excuse or chance for our economy workers to be safe at home (kids are off their back).

This country is stuck in archaic ways of thinking and silly tricks.

The government have said that schools are a safe, controlled environment and have indicated schools will remain open at any level of country restrictions. Their ability to run the country hinges on schools remaining open and not being transparent with information because that would lead to parents pulling their children out and have it all come falling down.

Numbers provided by the HSE and NPHET regarding cases in school age children have been increasing yet letters from the HSE to the schools have been decreasing. Obviously they are trying to keep a lid on.

niamh247

irishblessing wrote: »

The government have said that schools are a safe, controlled environment and have indicated schools will remain open at any level of country restrictions. Their ability to run the country hinges on schools remaining open and not being transparent with information because that would lead to parents pulling their children out and have it all come falling down.

Numbers provided by the HSE and NPHET regarding cases in school age children have been increasing yet letters from the HSE to the schools have been decreasing. Obviously they are trying to keep a lid on.

Absolutely yes. Well said. There is no free lunch. Risk is moved from place to place, distributed but not taken out.

Icyseanfitz

irishblessing wrote: »

The government have said that schools are a safe, controlled environment and have indicated schools will remain open at any level of country restrictions. Their ability to run the country hinges on schools remaining open and not being transparent with information because that would lead to parents pulling their children out and have it all come falling down.

Numbers provided by the HSE and NPHET regarding cases in school age children have been increasing yet letters from the HSE to the schools have been decreasing. Obviously they are trying to keep a lid on.

Isn't it amazing that the people who think this is one giant world government conspiracy or 5g or whatever stupid story theve told themselves haven't copped onto the hush story with schools.

irishblessing

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

Isn't it amazing that the people who think this is one giant world government conspiracy or 5g or whatever stupid story theve told themselves haven't copped onto the hush story with schools.

Maybe it's not exciting enough for them :pac:

Was also thinking that not only are parents not told about positive tests, but teachers aren't either. That's f'd up because first of all they're more likely to become seriously ill, and also if they are considered close contacts then all the teacher isolations would crash the school system especially as I learned here on this thread there is a massive teacher/sub shortage. There aren't enough teachers or subs in this country to keep us going.

I would fully support a teacher strike to force the hand for safer schools and a national plan b/remote hybrid learning plan.

khalessi

irishblessing wrote: »

Maybe it's not exciting enough for them :pac:

Was also thinking that not only are parents not told about positive tests, but teachers aren't either. That's f'd up because first of all they're more likely to become seriously ill, and also if they are considered close contacts then all the teacher isolations would crash the school system especially as I learned here on this thread there is a massive teacher/sub shortage. There aren't enough teachers or subs in this country to keep us going.

I would fully support a teacher strike to force the hand for safer schools and a national plan b/remote hybrid learning plan.

First I knew of case in my school was the empty classroom.

irishblessing

khalessi wrote: »

First I knew of case in my school was the empty classroom.

Do we know why sometimes entire classes close vs. one student or pods, and what the reason is?

khalessi

irishblessing wrote: »

Do we know why sometimes entire classes close vs. one student or pods, and what the reason is?

No idea wasnt told

downthemiddle

irishblessing wrote: »

Do we know why sometimes entire classes close vs. one student or pods, and what the reason is?

Depends on the conversation between the HSE and the principal, in particular the individual from the HSE.

Icyseanfitz

irishblessing wrote: »

Do we know why sometimes entire classes close vs. one student or pods, and what the reason is?

Probably toss a coin

Icyseanfitz

khalessi wrote: »

First I knew of case in my school was the empty classroom.

What an absolute disgrace, so the whole class was considered close contact, but the teacher wasn't and not only that, but not even notified.

wirelessdude01

irishblessing wrote: »

Do we know why sometimes entire classes close vs. one student or pods, and what the reason is?

Haven't had a case in my class(yet) but from friends that have had they cannot understand the criteria at all. Some have had full class plus themselves classed as close contacts, others have had just the pod plus the teachers, others just the pod and not the teacher, others have had some within a pod considered as close contacts but not others and then there have been cases where not a sinner in the room was considered a close contact.

Interesting is the different levels of detail needed to reach the decision of who is a close contact. Some public health people speak to just the principal, some just the teacher, some both principal and teacher. Then there is the curious instances where they don't ask about how the class is structured, no detail required about classroom setup/pods. Bizarre and confusing is the most common word used in relation to the close contacts thing.

wirelessdude01

Most primary principals from talking to others seem to be of the opinion that they should tell the teachers if there is a case. That seems to be in start contrast to the secondary sector where there seems to be an attitude that teachers have no need to know. Now if teachers are considered close contacts then you would have huge issues with staffing at secondary. Think about the issues that closed the school in Drogheda and then extrapolate that out across the secondary schools nationwide.

irishblessing

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Haven't had a case in my class(yet) but from friends that have had they cannot understand the criteria at all. Some have had full class plus themselves classed as close contacts, others have had just the pod plus the teachers, others just the pod and not the teacher, others have had some within a pod considered as close contacts but not others and then there have been cases where not a sinner in the room was considered a close contact.

Interesting is the different levels of detail needed to reach the decision of who is a close contact. Some public health people speak to just the principal, some just the teacher, some both principal and teacher. Then there is the curious instances where they don't ask about how the class is structured, no detail required about classroom setup/pods. Bizarre and confusing is the most common word used in relation to the close contacts thing.

I wonder would a FOI request from the HSE be possible; imagine the light that would shed..

niamh247

niamh247 wrote: »

You believe that just because govt says so? Why do you believe that schools don't spread the thing? Any strong evidence? Specifically, how about kids being asymptomatic carriers?

Where have I said once that I don’t believe it spreads in schools. I have quite clearly stated it spreads everywhere there are people. What is clear is the proportion of cases among school age groups have not increased relative to other age groups, indicating clearly schools are not having a driving effect on the cases numbers. Even if there are more asymptomatic cases among kids it would show up as an increased rate, as not all kids are asymptomatic, and contact tracing, even at a rudimentary level, would detect an increased rate.

Icyseanfitz

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

Isn't it amazing that the people who think this is one giant world government conspiracy or 5g or whatever stupid story theve told themselves haven't copped onto the hush story with schools.

Imagine all those believers in unfounded conspiracy theories don’t believe this unfounded conspiracy theory

irishblessing

Deleted User wrote: »

Where have I said once that I don’t believe it spreads in schools. I have quite clearly stated it spreads everywhere there are people. What is clear is the proportion of cases among school age groups have not increased relative to other age groups, indicating clearly schools are not having a driving effect on the cases numbers. Even if there are more asymptomatic cases among kids it would show up as an increased rate, as not all kids are asymptomatic, and contact tracing, even at a rudimentary level, would detect an increased rate.

But you're on to something there. Kids are more likely to be asymptomatic, so if there are less tests done among that age group because of this, then of course a larger increased rate is not going to be discovered. The tracing may lead back to the community or workplace instead. No?

byhookorbycrook

I was waiting for a Covid test . My principal couldn’t say that to my colleagues. Consider that the SEN teachers have to work together very closely, it’s ridiculous. I messaged my colleagues that I was out pending a test ( which was , fortunately “ not detected) but my principal couldn’t .

khalessi

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

I was waiting for a Covid test . My principal couldn’t say that to my colleagues. Consider that the SEN teachers have to work together very closely, it’s ridiculous. I messaged my colleagues that I was out pending a test ( which was , fortunately “ not detected) but my principal couldn’t .

horrible situation. Glad you are ok. I have told my colleagues if I need a test I will text them. Secrecy stigmatises this.

irishblessing

irishblessing wrote: »

But you're on to something there. Kids are more likely to be asymptomatic, so if there are less tests done among that age group because of this, then of course a larger increased rate is not going to be discovered. The tracing may lead back to the community or workplace instead. No?

Not so. There are cases being detected in school children, resulting in contact tracing which would detect asymptomatic cases which would have been missed before. This would result in an increased rate in these age groups, even if some are missed. Remember, from the data shared previously 2100 tests from close contacts in schools, produced 35 positives. We here how up to 10% of close contacts test positive, yet 35/2100 does not equal 10%