How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

Will Yam

khalessi wrote: »

We are all different but my colleagues and myself discussed it and it is what we decided to do.

Each to his own, I guess.

wirelessdude01

Will Yam wrote: »

Ask the hse.

I'm asking you. Do you not think it a little strange?

deiseindublin

I've yet to hear of a person tested as a close contact of a negative case.

wirelessdude01

deiseindublin wrote: »

I've yet to hear of a person tested as a close contact of a negative case.

Exactly.

Something doesn't exactly add up with the story being told.

Will Yam

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Test due to being a close contact requires restricted movement for 14 days after in our country.

So if someone has some sort of symptoms and is tested, and is negative then they have to isolate for 14 days?

And someone who has no symptoms at all, but is tested becuse of being in close contact to the above person and is negative is expected to isolate for 14 days too?

irishblessing

irishblessing wrote: »

Anyone else read this yet? Long, but worth a read.

As a teacher we have been given guidelines but the reality on the ground is a completely different matter. The following is a post from a school principal about what happened when he had his first positive case in his school. It was originally addressed to fellow principals informing them of how things are actually happening with the HSE. 

My experience of having our first positive Covid case

Dear Colleagues,

I have decided to write this message to you, although the sun is shining and perhaps wiser for me personally to take a walk instead. However, I thought it essential that I share my experience this week….
On Tuesday, a parent contacted the office to inform us that their child had a positive Covid test. One of our secretaries thanked her for informing us, but assured the parent it would in fact be the HSE that would be in touch with them and indeed any close contacts, etc. etc.

I decided to call the IPPN office and was advised to contact the regional HSE helpline so as to alert them to the case and hopefully ‘it would get moved along quicker’. I also asked if IPPN had received feedback from other schools and was reassured by the person’s positive response to my question, despite the contrary views expressed on this network by some principals. So I started the process with hope and relative calmness…
I rang the HSE helpdesk and was told that someone would ring me back. Later, at home, I got a call from a doctor from the helpline who quickly deemed that only the POD should be sent home and that the other PODS and class teacher were ‘casual’ rather the ‘close’ contacts.  No questions were asked about the size of the classroom, the closeness of the pods from one another. It was just confirm that there was a bubble and pod system in place. I have since this evening received an apology from the HSE Regional Centre stating that today their team has now created questions to ask principals in order to further contextualise each case presenting.

I was asked to send in the names of the close contacts (other pod members) on an incredibly cumbersome excel spreadsheet they sent me. I asked when would these parents be contacted and could they guarantee that they would be before the next school day. They informed me by phone and later by email that it could take up to 24 hours to make initial contact.

After further contact, where they said it may well be 48 hours,  I was left with no option but to call the parents affected myself or otherwise they would return to school the next day. In fact, it took over 48 hours for the HSE to make initial contact, after a further three phone calls from me, asking why it was taking so long. Each time, a nice person on the end of the line, with an apology and saying they needed more resources….

I would like to thank Pairic from IPPN and John Boyle from INTO for both returning my call most promptly and listening to my story.
However, I have so many concerns and questions that remain unanswered, the following being the most important?
- Where is the fast track testing service for staff and children we were promised before we returned to school?
- Why does the HSA return to work form specify clearly what a close contact is (i.e. within 2 metres, for more than 15 mins, on one given day) but DES Return to work form leaves this out?
- How, on the one hand, are we told by the HSE to not get involved with contacting close contacts and by another arm of the HSE specifically asking us to do so?
- How can a class teacher be deemed a casual contact and indeed the other PODS in the room without a thorough and comprehensive risk assessment by a health expert?
- When will the IPPN and the INTO say publicly ‘ENOUGH IS ENOUGH’ and prioritise our safety? If the HSE can’t keep us safe, why are we open? It seems that it is much easier to be deemed a close contact outside of a school context than within….the HSE website proves this point perfectly in their section on contacts. How can the bodies we pay to represent us allow this to continue?
- Do we have to wait for a pupil or staff member or a close relative to die before those in power admit that schools are indeed being treated entirely different from other sectors?

This is my first ever email of this type….just not me normally. I also contacted TDs for the first time in my life too to express my complete disbelief in this week’s events.
I am asking you, to not do what I have done so often on this network to read and move on to the next ‘fire to be put out’ – IF YOU AGREE WITH THIS EMAIL, PLEASE PRESS REPLY AND INSERT A WORD OR TWO, SO OTHER PRINCIPALS AND SCHOOL COMMUNITIES WON’T HAVE TO GO THROUGH THIS AND IPPN HEAD OFFICE WILL CLEARLY HEAR THIS IS THE MOST SERIOUS OF ISSUES….
I implore IPPN to not get side tracked by visiting inspectors dressed up as HSA inspectors and speak out and ACT about this matter….without a comprehensive test and tracing system , we are in serious trouble.
I fully understand the HSE and DES have created many of these issues but the bodies that represent us have allowed it unfold as it is the IPPN and INTO that sit at the table with the DES and HSE and not the individual principal, teacher, SNA, secretary or pupil.
Our politicians and others want schools back at all costs…..my worry, after these few days, is at what cost?
Finally, one positive from the week, the parents I dealt with and my school colleagues were all exceptional in their understanding and support.

School principals have a easy way out on this. Declare the full class as a pod. The pod system is supposed to a bubble that can be maintained. If it can’t it’s not a pod, so don’t declare it as a pod. Principals should though be entitled to contact everyone they believe relevant to the contact tracing to ask them to remain home, until the detailed follow up is complete. And it should be communicated to every parent nationwide that they may be asked to keep kids home pending a public health review

Will Yam

deiseindublin wrote: »

I've yet to hear of a person tested as a close contact of a negative case.

That isn’t what happened.

Will Yam

deiseindublin wrote: »

I've yet to hear of a person tested as a close contact of a negative case.

Nor have I.

Icyseanfitz

Will Yam wrote: »

So if someone has some sort of symptoms and is tested, and is negative then they have to isolate for 14 days?

And someone who has no symptoms at all, but is tested becuse of being in close contact to the above person and is negative is expected to isolate for 14 days too?

It's 48hours if negative

wirelessdude01

Will Yam wrote: »

So if someone has some sort of symptoms and is tested, and is negative then they have to isolate for 14 days?

And someone who has no symptoms at all, but is tested becuse of being in close contact to the above person and is negative is expected to isolate for 14 days too?

If you get referred for a test by your GP due to symptoms and are negative then you need to restrict your movements for 48hrs after your symptoms have gone.

Yes to the second scenario.

This is all on the HSE website.

Surprised that someone who spends so much time on a covid related thread doesn't know this.

Will Yam

deiseindublin wrote: »

I've yet to hear of a person tested as a close contact of a negative case.

Who was tested as a contact of a negative case?

wirelessdude01

Will Yam wrote: »

That isn’t what happened.

Tell us then because it makes no sense what you've told us.

Will Yam

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

It's 48hours if negative

Thanks.

It isn’t clear on the hse website. As I said, one reading of it indicates 14 days.

delly

Deleted User wrote: »

The unpopular view on their thread, but the one bourne out by facts, is that the rate of case in school age kids is not growing relative to other age groups and the rate of increase is slowing overall.

I feel like I have had to repeat it 100 times, but it’s still true

Can you link to these stats? From looking at the HSE 14 day breakdown reports, their age range is 5-14 and 15-24, so is it the former that you reference?

Mrsmum

Regarding the positive cases in primary schools, how come they didn't result in the whole class being infected when you think about it ? Considering 30 to a class, small rooms & poor ventilation, no masks, dodgy or no social distancing, hygiene unlikely to be perfect, all the things teachers have said. When there is a case, is it not more bizarre that they isn't a cluster than that they would be one. I can only conclude that the schools and teachers are indeed doing a fantastic job at controlling the school environment. If these same classes were at a party, it seems they would all have been infected.

Will Yam

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Hold on a minute. You should only be tested as a close contact of someone who has tested positive.This makes no sense.

Would you like the phone number of my go who referred me for my test?

I’m sure he would welcome a lecture on medicine from you,

Miharo

irishblessing wrote: »

Jesus, calm down. Wtf yourself. I understood where you were coming from in the first part of that previous comment. Schools are 100% not controlled environments. Do you even have kids?

I think it was a subdued response considering your repeated inability to display a basic level of English comprehension. The facts speak for themselves, you can choose to ignore them but hopefully the people making the decisions are basing them off the actual data.

wirelessdude01

Mrsmum wrote: »

Regarding the positive cases in primary schools, how come they didn't result in the whole class being infected when you think about it ? Considering 30 to a class, small rooms & poor ventilation, no masks, dodgy or no social distancing, hygiene unlikely to be perfect, all the things teachers have said. When there is a case, is it not more bizarre that they isn't a cluster than that they would be one. I can only conclude that the schools and teachers are indeed doing a fantastic job at controlling the school environment. If these same classes were at a party, it seems they would all have been infected.

Well children who are infected cannot be found if asymptomatic if not tested. Categorised as not close contacts ensures this.

Will Yam

Will Yam wrote: »

So if someone has some sort of symptoms and is tested, and is negative then they have to isolate for 14 days?

And someone who has no symptoms at all, but is tested becuse of being in close contact to the above person and is negative is expected to isolate for 14 days too?

If someone has symptoms and tests negative they don’t isolate after 48 hours

If someone is a close contact of someone who tests negative, well they don’t do anything

If someone is a close contact of a positive case they restrict movements for 14 days even if they test negative

HSE do not do contact tracing for someone who is waiting on a test result, so it’s highly dubious that they would arrange a test.

Some employers however do internal contact tracing for suspect cases pending results, mine included. Anyone who is a close contact of someone being sent for test because they have symptoms are asked to remain home on full pay for 14 days or until negative result from their contact.

wirelessdude01

Will Yam wrote: »

Would you like the phone number of my go who referred me for my test?

I’m sure he would welcome a lecture on medicine from you,

Oh so it was your GP who referred you, ahh see you told us you were a close contact of someone. Different story now.

Will Yam

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

If you get referred for a test by your GP due to symptoms and are negative then you need to restrict your movements for 48hrs after your symptoms have gone.

Yes to the second scenario.

This is all on the HSE website.

Surprised that someone who spends so much time on a covid related thread doesn't know this.

So you and icyseanfitz have different answers to the same questions.

Interesting.

Will Yam

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Oh so it was your GP who referred you, ahh see you told us you were a close contact of someone. Different story now.

It’s not a different story. It’s the same story. I was referred for a test. I have no symptoms. I am in close contact with someone who has exhibited the symptoms of a common cold. That person was referred as well.

There aren’t conspiracies everywhere about all this, you know.

But I’m sure, as ever you’ll come up with some fantastical scenario.

combat14

Highest daily figures announced since April

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40055795.html?type=amp

Icyseanfitz

Deleted User wrote: »

If someone has symptoms and tests negative they don’t isolate.

If someone is a close contact of someone who tests negative, well they don’t do anything

If someone is a close contact of a positive case they restrict movements for 14 days even if they test negative

HSE do not do contact tracing for someone who is waiting on a test result, so it’s highly dubious that they would arrange a test.

Some employers however do internal contact tracing for suspect cases pending results, mine included. Anyone who is a close contact of someone being sent for test because they have symptoms are asked to remain home on full pay for 14 days or until negative result from their contact.

If someone tests negative they do isolate for a further 48 hours after test result, at least that's what happened with the wife.

wirelessdude01

Will Yam wrote: »

So you and icyseanfitz have different answers to the same questions.

Interesting.

How are they different?

Icyseanfitz

Will Yam wrote: »

So you and icyseanfitz have different answers to the same questions.

Interesting.

Did we not say the exact same thing? Isolate for 48h after negative result.

irishblessing

Miharo wrote: »

I think it was a subdued response considering your repeated inability to display a basic level of English comprehension. The facts speak for themselves, you can choose to ignore them but hopefully the people making the decisions are basing them off the actual data.

Reported.

wirelessdude01

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

Did we not say the exact same thing? Isolate for 48h after negative result.

I don't see any difference but await with interest how the poster sees a difference.

delly

delly wrote: »

Can you link to these stats? From looking at the HSE 14 day breakdown reports, their age range is 5-14 and 15-24, so is it the former that you reference?

I think all school age children fall within those buckets apart from a some of the younger juniors.

So without the breakdown in 15-18 year olds it’s possible there has been massive growth in this cohort and reduction in 19 to 24 years, but it’s highly unlikely. And the 5 -14 stats are stable. 8% of cases at the start of the month and in the most recent report.

Icyseanfitz

combat14 wrote: »

Highest daily figures announced since April

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40055795.html?type=amp

I wonder how hospitals are going to hold up in a week or two