How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

Lillyfae

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Quote where I said it was a super spreader?

You just dismissed two of the education stakeholders, INTO and principals as having no input into how things are decided. How narrow minded.

How are things in the land of tulips?

I'm not going to go back over all of your posts, anyone following this thread is well aware of your position.

The INTO don't educate anyone, but no I don't believe that principals or the INTO should be advising pandemic management strategy.

They're the same as anywhere else, thanks for asking. We've had to fall back onto stricter guidelines unfortunately but it's to be expected at the moment. A lot had returned to the office under the false sense of security afforded by a flattened curve, so the government are reiterating the position of "work from home unless in an essential role that requires office attendance". Hopefully numbers will improve soon. As for schools etc, they close for a couple of days and open back up again as necessary. A bit unsettling for the staff but the children are just delighted to have a routine.

wirelessdude01

[quote="Lillyfae;114764616"

They're the same as anywhere else, thanks for asking. We've had to fall back onto stricter guidelines unfortunately but it's to be expected at the moment. A lot had returned to the office under the false sense of security afforded by a flattened curve, so the government are reiterating the position of "work from home unless in an essential role that requires office attendance". Hopefully numbers will improve soon. As for schools etc, they close for a couple of days and open back up again as necessary. A bit unsettling for the staff but the children are just delighted to have a routine.[/quote]

So is it closure due to a case(s) in a school, closure of schools in an area. How does it operate? Interested to hear.

s1ippy

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

As an aside a friend of mine in a massive primary school just messaged me to say that their principal has asked every staff member to delete the covid tracking app.

My old principal sent a group message this week to advise the same, it was forwarded to me by a friend. I wonder if they're being told to or if they just have no moral compass whatsoever.

wirelessdude01

s1ippy wrote: »

My old principal sent a group message this week to advise the same, it was forwarded to me by a friend. I wonder if they're being told to or if they just have no moral compass whatsoever.

I was told last week that the HSE has contacted schools and ask that they amend any policy where they advised downloading the app. Also to advise staff/pupils to uninstall/disable in school.

SusanC10

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

I was told last week that the HSE has contacted schools and ask that they amend any policy where they advised downloading the app. Also to advise staff/pupils to uninstall/disable in school.

Was there a reason given ?

wirelessdude01

SusanC10 wrote: »

Was there a reason given ?

Is there ever.

Guessing the Drogheda 'glitch' is the most likely reason.

Lillyfae

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

So is it closure due to a case(s) in a school, closure of schools in an area. How does it operate? Interested to hear.

Well in a case from last week:

https://www.omroepbrabant.nl/nieuws/3266155/grote-opluchting-op-eindhovense-basisschool-weer-open-na-coronabesmetting-bij-leerkracht

A primary school teacher tested positive, so they closed the school for 2 days and tested all teachers. It goes on to say that parents weren't happy that these were counted as study days (so no lessons given). The principal is worried about the fact that guidelines permit children coming to school with the sniffles, although she is glad that they're allowed to. She also found it frustrating that they had various points of contact within public health so not really continuous advice etc

wirelessdude01

Lillyfae wrote: »

Well in a case from last week:

https://www.omroepbrabant.nl/nieuws/3266155/grote-opluchting-op-eindhovense-basisschool-weer-open-na-coronabesmetting-bij-leerkracht

A primary school teacher tested positive, so they closed the school for 2 days and tested all teachers. It goes on to say that parents weren't happy that these were counted as study days (so no lessons given). The principal is worried about the fact that guidelines permit children coming to school with the sniffles, although she is glad that they're allowed to. She also found it frustrating that they had various points of contact within public health so not really continuous advice etc

Any children tested as a result?

So different people having different opinions based on the same information? Same happening here. No consistent approach when it comes to tracing in schools at all.

Lillyfae

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Any children tested as a result?

So different people having different opinions based on the same information? Same happening here. No consistent approach when it comes to tracing in schools at all.

No children tested, just the teachers.

Well that would be the case anyway since they have regional and not national public health services here- but I think it was more along the lines of having one point of contact, not that the information was different. Bit of advice, maybe if you make less assumptions about things you don't understand to begin with then your argument might become more coherent.

wirelessdude01

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Is there ever.

Guessing the Drogheda 'glitch' is the most likely reason.

If you are in a place where your location relative to other people is known, the app adds no value, just confusion as it's not, and can never be, 100% accurate. Where loads of people are in a building, even if they are in different rooms, pings may be returned. The value of the app is where you don't know the people you are in the vicinity of, or could forget, such as when socialising.

wirelessdude01

Lillyfae wrote: »

No children tested, just the teachers.

Well that would be the case anyway since they have regional and not national public health services here- but I think it was more along the lines of having one point of contact, not that the information was different. Bit of advice, maybe if you make less assumptions about things you don't understand to begin with then your argument might become more coherent.

Likewise to yourself.

mvl

appears there is an assumption here that blended learning means parents have to drive the teaching - with follow on economic impacts/disasters - why is that ?
personally i would have thought blended learning is done via teams/zoom/skype calls, with teachers driving the remote learning ?!?

- with that in mind, schools can ensure all children from a year are taught virtually by one teacher at a time per subject, while allowing for additional teaching resources backups for the classes that are done in school - this can help preventing schools being understaffed in next months even. win win for all ...

Icyseanfitz

mvl wrote: »

appears there is an assumption here that blended learning means parents have to drive the teaching - with follow on economic impacts/disasters - why is that ?


personally i would have thought blended learning is done via teams/zoom/skype calls, with teachers driving the remote learning ?!?


- with that in mind, schools can ensure all children from a year are taught virtually by one teacher at a time per subject, while allowing for additional teaching resources backups for the classes that are done in school - this can help preventing schools being understaffed in next months even. win win for all ...

People don't want to hear it, schools are now seen as mere economic babysitting, and that all educators just want to close schools :rolleyes:

Talisman

irishblessing wrote: »

For how long?

I have no idea, it is just a forewarning. From what we have heard there have been at least 8 positive cases in the school to date.

wirelessdude01

Talisman wrote: »

I have no idea, it is just a forewarning. From what we have heard there have been at least 8 positive cases in the school to date.

Any in same class or same year?

JDD

I think it's perfectly understandable to ask people to disable the covid app while at work, in certain situations. You don't need to uninstall the app, just switch off your bluetooth while in work.

If you work in a lab where partitions are raised between colleagues, or in a workplace where your mobile is left in a locker, then it is not just good reasonable to ask people to disable to the covid app, it is advisable. Otherwise your mobile is going to send out a massive amount of pings when your employer or the HSE already know who your close contacts are. And then everyone who gets a ping self isolates, leading to unnecessary paralysis.

Same in a school, I would expect. As a teacher, if you have your phone in your pocket then it will ping the teacher in the classroom behind you, and possibly above or below you. If you are a secondary school teacher moving from classroom to classroom your phone will probably pick up every other teacher in the school as a close contact when you might not have even seen another face during the day.

mvl

mvl wrote: »

appears there is an assumption here that blended learning means parents have to drive the teaching - with follow on economic impacts/disasters - why is that ?


personally i would have thought blended learning is done via teams/zoom/skype calls, with teachers driving the remote learning ?!?


- with that in mind, schools can ensure all children from a year are taught virtually by one teacher at a time per subject, while allowing for additional teaching resources backups for the classes that are done in school - this can help preventing schools being understaffed in next months even. win win for all ...

Believe it or not the majority of workers in the country dont have jobs that can be done remotely. 1 parent in every household with kids under the age of 16 would need to remain home from work to support remote learning.

For under 10's it would be virtually impossible to even maintain a remote job while looking after kids

Then there is the broadband infrastructure for large swathes of the country.

wirelessdude01

mvl wrote: »

appears there is an assumption here that blended learning means parents have to drive the teaching - with follow on economic impacts/disasters - why is that ?


personally i would have thought blended learning is done via teams/zoom/skype calls, with teachers driving the remote learning ?!?


- with that in mind, schools can ensure all children from a year are taught virtually by one teacher at a time per subject, while allowing for additional teaching resources backups for the classes that are done in school - this can help preventing schools being understaffed in next months even. win win for all ...

In theory it works at second level without much if any parental involvement bar pulling them out of bed every morning. Without a central portal/framework/guidelines it can in reality based on lockdown be hit and miss. This is where the whole plan B needs to be formalised.

s1ippy

JDD wrote: »

I think it's perfectly understandable to ask people to disable the covid app while at work, in certain situations. You don't need to uninstall the app, just switch off your bluetooth while in work.

If you work in a lab where partitions are raised between colleagues, or in a workplace where your mobile is left in a locker, then it is not just good reasonable to ask people to disable to the covid app, it is advisable. Otherwise your mobile is going to send out a massive amount of pings when your employer or the HSE already know who your close contacts are. And then everyone who gets a ping self isolates, leading to unnecessary paralysis.

Same in a school, I would expect. As a teacher, if you have your phone in your pocket then it will ping the teacher in the classroom behind you, and possibly above or below you. If you are a secondary school teacher moving from classroom to classroom your phone will probably pick up every other teacher in the school as a close contact when you might not have even seen another face during the day.

I would say the opposite. If you're at work and somebody in your room tests positive and uploads their code, you will be prioritised for testing and know more quickly if you have covid.

If you don't have the app you mightn't even be flagged as a close contact in schools.

JDD

mvl wrote: »

appears there is an assumption here that blended learning means parents have to drive the teaching - with follow on economic impacts/disasters - why is that ?


personally i would have thought blended learning is done via teams/zoom/skype calls, with teachers driving the remote learning ?!?


- with that in mind, schools can ensure all children from a year are taught virtually by one teacher at a time per subject, while allowing for additional teaching resources backups for the classes that are done in school - this can help preventing schools being understaffed in next months even. win win for all ...

I'm guessing teams/zoom/skype might work well for secondary school? I mean, it would work for English, Irish and Maths presumably. Not so much for PE, music, art, home economics or the practical parts of science, but you'd be 70% of the way there. Is there any parents who had their secondary kids doing zoom lessons over March to May?

I'm not sure at all about primary school. Our school did microsoft teams for 5th and 6th class. I don't know how well it worked.

For classes below 5th our school used Seesaw. Which was a disaster for us anyway, and entailed two hours of direct supervision of each child each day. I'm not sure why they thought that microsoft teams would not work for the younger classes. Possibly because everything is done on worksheets, which have to be PDF'd and emailed and printed anyway, and the class is taught through play materials that people don't have at home? I don't know. It's also possibly because it is hard to keep a large group of children engaged at that age, and it's only barely manageable when you are in the room, and impossible to do remotely, so the parents would have to sit with their kids and re-explain/re-iterate what the teacher is saying so that the child understands.

Did anyone who has kids in younger primary school classes have their home-schooling done by video call with the teacher? If so, how did it go? Could you leave your child to it and get work done?

s1ippy

s1ippy wrote: »

I would say the opposite. If you're at work and somebody in your room tests positive and uploads their code, you will be prioritised for testing and know more quickly if you have covid.

If you don't have the app you mightn't even be flagged as a close contact in schools.

The minimum expectation for any adult in their job is that they know who their daily contacts are.

JDD

s1ippy wrote: »

I would say the opposite. If you're at work and somebody in your room tests positive and uploads their code, you will be prioritised for testing and know more quickly if you have covid.

If you don't have the app you mightn't even be flagged as a close contact in schools.

But as a teacher aren't you supposed to be the only one in the room with a mobile phone? I know that's laughable in secondary school, but aren't their phones at least supposed to be turned off during class?

Talisman

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Any in same class or same year?

5 are in my daughter's year, they seem to be split between her class and another. The same group is kept together for the core subjects but the classes mix when they do the optional subjects (Science, Home Economics, Business Studies etc.) so it's hardly an ideal setup.

There were also 2 cases in one of the senior years.

s1ippy

You could have lunch with a colleague who later tests positive. No guarantees that social distancing will be effective if you've touched the same surfaces or used the bathroom after them.

I would be keeping the app on.

Jucifer

delly wrote: »

Cold air doesn't cause sniffles, but cold air does cause a narrowing of the airways, which can then lead to coughing or a shortness of breath. If you have asthma, cold air can have a very bad effect.

Cheers, I know the cause of colds is one of many viruses. I thought being in a cold environment when already sick could worsen the illness. Along the lines of using up more energy to keep warm lessens ability of immune system to fight virus. Anyway not important.

History Queen

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The minimum expectation for any adult in their job is that they know who their daily contacts are.

Knowing who your contacts are and having the HSE agree with you are two different things if you are a teacher.

wirelessdude01

JDD wrote: »

But as a teacher aren't you supposed to be the only one in the room with a mobile phone? I know that's laughable in secondary school, but aren't their phones at least supposed to be turned off during class?

Some pupils even have phones in primary.

I'd guess pretty much every secondary student has a phone at school with them.

s1ippy

Haha,

History Queen wrote: »

Knowing who your contacts are and having the HSE agree with you are two different things if you are a teacher.

"I was within 2m of Ms Buckley, Mr O'Brien, Mr Twomey and Ms O'Leary."

HSE: "No you weren't"

wirelessdude01

History Queen wrote: »

Knowing who your contacts are and having the HSE agree with you are two different things if you are a teacher.

Depends on what definition of close contact is being applied.

The one that Irish society uses?
The one that applies to Irish schools?
The one that the ECDC recommends is used in European schools but which our lads and ladies have chosen to ignore?

wirelessdude01

s1ippy wrote: »

Haha,



"I was within 2m of Ms Buckley, Mr O'Brien, Mr Twomey and Ms O'Leary."

HSE: "No you weren't"

Sounds like something from a panto!!!