How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

wirelessdude01

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Quick question guys.

How come when some schools get a Covid-19 case it can be plastered on social media and regional radio stations and other schools won't get mentioned.

Unless a parents puts it up on social media then it isn't known about. Not like there is a central reservoir of data about them that is publicly accessible.

Only other place they could be seen is if someone sends a screen shot of the text message, the Aladdin notification or a copy of the HSE letter to that Facebook group.

Lillyfae

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Quick question guys.

How come when some schools get a Covid-19 case it can be plastered on social media and regional radio stations and other schools won't get mentioned.

I would think it’s because some people have the opinion that it’s inevitable and expect it, and other people don’t so want to make their opinion known elsewhere. This is possibly linked to communication from the schools to employees and parents, and of course down to the expectations of employees and parents themselves.

downthemiddle

Lillyfae wrote: »

I would think it’s because some people have the opinion that it’s inevitable and expect it, and other people don’t so want to make their opinion known elsewhere. This is possibly linked to communication from the schools to employees and parents, and of course down to the expectations of employees and parents themselves.

I’d say that’s an opinion worthy of a Facebook group.

Icyseanfitz

out of interest, to the people who think having the app turned off, not pushed about whole classes getting contacted for tracing etc. Say if your child was in a class, sitting 2 desks away from a child who subsequently tested positive but you or your child never got notified of said positive case. Would you be perfectly happy that the system did everything it was supposed to do?

BonsaiKitten

JDD wrote: »

I'm guessing teams/zoom/skype might work well for secondary school? I mean, it would work for English, Irish and Maths presumably. Not so much for PE, music, art, home economics or the practical parts of science, but you'd be 70% of the way there. Is there any parents who had their secondary kids doing zoom lessons over March to May?

I'm not sure at all about primary school. Our school did microsoft teams for 5th and 6th class. I don't know how well it worked.

For classes below 5th our school used Seesaw. Which was a disaster for us anyway, and entailed two hours of direct supervision of each child each day. I'm not sure why they thought that microsoft teams would not work for the younger classes. Possibly because everything is done on worksheets, which have to be PDF'd and emailed and printed anyway, and the class is taught through play materials that people don't have at home? I don't know. It's also possibly because it is hard to keep a large group of children engaged at that age, and it's only barely manageable when you are in the room, and impossible to do remotely, so the parents would have to sit with their kids and re-explain/re-iterate what the teacher is saying so that the child understands.

Did anyone who has kids in younger primary school classes have their home-schooling done by video call with the teacher? If so, how did it go? Could you leave your child to it and get work done?

I have talked about this a lot on thread but I taught my class through Zoom every day. It did work well but you are relying on children having devices so it won't suit all schools.

The parents left their kids alone on the call - I assume anyway, am sure some sat nearby, I didn't care if they did - and the kids usually needed no home support. Though I did have to send them to find a parent if they had tech problems as it was very hard to get a kid to solve that remotely.

All in all it worked well but is very tiring. Imo you couldn't do a full primary school day on it and couldn't teach a whole class on it if you want to make sure everyone understands. I split them into groups which worked much better.

Could you teach young primary students like that - Junior or Senior Infants? I doubt it. At the very least you'd need a parent sitting alongside to support. Better to put out recorded videos and maybe have regular, short small group/1 to 1 sessions.

Lillyfae

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

out of interest, to the people who think having the app turned off, not pushed about whole classes getting contacted for tracing etc. Say if your child was in a class, sitting 2 desks away from a child who subsequently tested positive but you or your child never got notified of said positive case. Would you be perfectly happy that the system did everything it was supposed to do?

I don’t know if anyone said they were happy about it, did they? Just that it’s not fail safe. Lots of primary children don’t have phones, phones are in lockers in secondary, teachers are frequently within 2 metres of eachother albeit through a wall.

Anyway, as far as I understand it was maverick principals instructing staff to remove the app. So I guess it’s a question for them really.

meeeeh

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

out of interest, to the people who think having the app turned off, not pushed about whole classes getting contacted for tracing etc. Say if your child was in a class, sitting 2 desks away from a child who subsequently tested positive but you or your child never got notified of said positive case. Would you be perfectly happy that the system did everything it was supposed to do?

It depends if anyone else tested positive. If they didn't then I guess the measures worked and Covid didn't spread. I very much doubt that they are intentionally letting virus spread.

In general I would be a lot more worried about measures in nursing homes and hospitals where vulnerable people are than in schools where most will not be overly affected. (I think research is strong enough on that).

Icyseanfitz

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

out of interest, to the people who think having the app turned off, not pushed about whole classes getting contacted for tracing etc. Say if your child was in a class, sitting 2 desks away from a child who subsequently tested positive but you or your child never got notified of said positive case. Would you be perfectly happy that the system did everything it was supposed to do?

See I think the issue is schools having poorly defined pods rather than the guidance itself. If a school cannot satisfy themselves that they can maintain separate pods in a classroom, they should not even try to have pods and declare the full class a pod. Once the contact tracers call and hear Johnny, Mary and Tom are in the pod, they just tick the box as the school have defined that as a pod. I presume principals are afraid if they don’t have poda they will fall fowl of the department, however the opposite should be true, if they declare that a pod can’t be maintained once the effort has been made they should be applauded. On what I personally think should happen. Pods should be separated by at least 1metre and 2 in the case where there is face to face contact. If that can’t happen the pod should be expanded until it can. If there is a case in a class the pod should be isolated and tested, if there are 2, the full class. If there are cases(not from 2siblings where 1 has isolated) in multiple classes within a school, the school should be considered for closing. Some large schools may have other means of segregating preventing that.

wirelessdude01

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Yet the HSE website shows 339 cases in the age range 4-15 between the 14th and 27th of September.

The preceding fortnight had 509 cases in that age range so actually quite a drop.

Something doesn't match or else we have a significant number of that age range delisted from school roll and officially being home schooled.

Siblings and close contacts of a school case from outside of school who subsequently test positive would not be school cases as they were identified outside the school setting, and likely isolating due to contact for the few days prior to positive testing/ result. May account for some of the difference

wirelessdude01

Deleted User wrote: »

See I think the issue is schools having poorly defined pods rather than the guidance itself. If a school cannot satisfy themselves that they can maintain separate pods in a classroom, they should not even try to have pods and declare the full class a pod. Once the contact tracers call and hear Johnny, Mary and Tom are in the pod, they just tick the box as the school have defined that as a pod. I presume principals are afraid if they don’t have poda they will fall fowl of the department, however the opposite should be true, if they declare that a pod can’t be maintained once the effort has been made they should be applauded. On what I personally think should happen. Pods should be separated by at least 1metre and 2 in the case where there is face to face contact. If that can’t happen the pod should be expanded until it can. If there is a case in a class the pod should be isolated and tested, if there are 2, the full class. If there are cases(not from 2siblings where 1 has isolated) in multiple classes within a school, the school should be considered for closing. Some large schools may have other means of segregating preventing that.

Don't think you'll find any teacher having an issue with the above. Pods are total nonsense.

I'll describe my own class set up. Pod 1 is 1m away from pod 2. However some children in both pods 1 and 2 are leas than 1m distance away from some in pod 3.
Some in pod 3 are less than 1m distance from some in pods 4 and 5. Pods 4 and 5 are 1m apart.

wirelessdude01

Deleted User wrote: »

Siblings and close contacts of a school case from outside of school who subsequently test positive would not be school cases as they were identified outside the school setting, and likely isolating due to contact for the few days prior to positive testing/ result. May account for some of the difference

A school case is any child who tests positive who is enrolled in a school.

I'm aware of a child who tested positive who hadn't been in school for a week. School sent out the HSE letter informing the entire school community of the positive case. This is HSE procedure for the first case in a school. No close contacts as they hadn't been in a school setting in the preceding 48hrs. This is still considered to be a school case though.

Supercell

My wife told me today that another mother of a child in my daughters primary school class told her that her transition year student child in another (secondary) school called her from the toilets of the school in hysterics.
Apparently there was another kid in the classroom coughing constantly and whom had told someone that they were waiting on test results.

Her mum told her to come home immediately and she would deal with it.

Turns out the child got a positive test result that day and the whole class was sent home and were waiting on an update from the Principal as to what to do next.
There are other cases in the same school also (not saying how many as it would be too obvious), I really think that they should shut the whole school, deep clean and reopen in two weeks time after all kids tested.

Mad stuff altogether, what kind of parent sends in a kid coughing their guts out and waiting on a test result?, just unreal.
Easy to see how this stuff spreads in such an environment.

wirelessdude01

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Don't think you'll find any teacher having an issue with the above. Pods are total nonsense.

I'll describe my own class set up. Pod 1 is 1m away from pod 2. However some children in both pods 1 and 2 are leas than 1m distance away from some in pod 3.
Some in pod 3 are less than 1m distance from some in pods 4 and 5. Pods 4 and 5 are 1m apart.

Numbers in each pod should be increased until ye can come up with a workable number within the space. I understand in some rooms this would result in a single pod

wirelessdude01

Deleted User wrote: »

Numbers in each pod should be increased until ye can come up with a workable number within the space. I understand in some rooms this would result in a single pod

Not possible due to space and layout of room.

wirelessdude01

Supercell wrote: »

My wife told me today that another mother of a child in my daughters primary school class told her that her transition year student child in another (secondary) school called her from the toilets of the school in hysterics.
Apparently there was another kid in the classroom coughing constantly and whom had told someone that they were waiting on test results.

Her mum told her to come home immediately and she would deal with it.

Turns out the child got a positive test result that day and the whole class was sent home and were waiting on an update from the Principal as to what to do next.
There are other cases in the same school also (not saying how many as it would be too obvious), I really think that they should shut the whole school, deep clean and reopen in two weeks time after all kids tested.

Mad stuff altogether, what kind of parent sends in a kid coughing their guts out and waiting on a test result?, just unreal.
Easy to see how this stuff spreads in such an environment.

Irresponsible parents who just don't give a frig about others.

Newbie20

irishblessing wrote: »

Thanks for that, will leave it so and see what comes. It was put on paper though in the reopening policy for the school, and nothing to that was amended so far. It's fairly warm today, and still the windows were closed because it being "too cold?" I could see in the gale force winds forecasted at the end of the week, but today? :rolleyes: I don't like the idea of them being closed all winter. Why aren't the gov't giving more funding then for extra heating since it was advice/recommended to ventilate rooms?

I would think the teachers should just come together in your school and insist that ye will only teach in rooms with windows (or at least 1 or 2) open. I won’t be teaching in a room with all the windows closed this year, no way. They can wear extra layers and toughen up. Ventilation has been shown to be extremely important.

appledrop

Right I've analysed the following data. Now by god I had to dig around to find this they don't make it easy!

Up to 4th April 4,014 cases broken down by age as follows:

0-4- 21 cases
5-14 33 cases
15-24 255 cases
25-34 678 cases
35-44 751 cases
45-54 764 cases
55-65 584 cases
65+ 918 cases
Unknown age 10

In contrast 14 day report 13th -26th Sep nearly same number of cases for comparison 4022 cases as follows:

0-4 114 cases
5-14 325 cases
15-24 984 cases
25-34 708 cases
35-44 576 cases
45-54 552 cases
55-64 375 cases
65+ 386 cases
Unknown age 2

Now that clearly shows the spread among preschool/ school kids. April 0-14 age group only had 1.3% of cases combined, by September its 10.88% of cases. 15-24 age group jumps from 6.3% of cases to 24.5% cases.

I'm sick and tired of hearing on news about house parties, restaurants etc all being blamed when it is as clear as day from stats that child/ teenagers are biggest increase at school.

Why is nobody in media reporting on this?

appledrop

appledrop wrote: »

Right I've analysed the following data. Now by god I had to dig around to find this they don't make it easy!

Up to 4th April 4,014 cases broken down by age as follows:

0-4- 21 cases
5-14 33 cases
15-24 255 cases
25-34 678 cases
35-44 751 cases
45-54 764 cases
55-65 584 cases
65+ 918 cases
Unknown age 10

In contrast 14 day report 13th -26th Sep nearly same number of cases for comparison 4022 cases as follows:

0-4 114 cases
5-14 325 cases
15-24 984 cases
25-34 708 cases
35-44 576 cases
45-54 552 cases
55-64 375 cases
65+ 386 cases
Unknown age 2

Now that clearly shows the spread among preschool/ school kids. April 0-14 age group only had 1.3% of cases combined, by September its 10.88% of cases. 15-24 age group jumps from 6.3% of cases to 24.5% cases.

I'm sick and tired of hearing on news about house parties, restaurants etc all being blamed when it is as clear as day from stats that child/ teenagers are biggest increase at school.

Why is nobody in media reporting on this?

You posted the exact same data on another thread yesterday, so I will post the exact same reply

Did you compare the 14 day incidence report from the 2nd of September? You know, when testing criteria was the same, but schools were not back?

meeeeh

appledrop wrote: »

Right I've analysed the following data. Now by god I had to dig around to find this they don't make it easy!

Up to 4th April 4,014 cases broken down by age as follows:

0-4- 21 cases
5-14 33 cases
15-24 255 cases
25-34 678 cases
35-44 751 cases
45-54 764 cases
55-65 584 cases
65+ 918 cases
Unknown age 10

In contrast 14 day report 13th -26th Sep nearly same number of cases for comparison 4022 cases as follows:

0-4 114 cases
5-14 325 cases
15-24 984 cases
25-34 708 cases
35-44 576 cases
45-54 552 cases
55-64 375 cases
65+ 386 cases
Unknown age 2

Now that clearly shows the spread among preschool/ school kids. April 0-14 age group only had 1.3% of cases combined, by September its 10.88% of cases. 15-24 age group jumps from 6.3% of cases to 24.5% cases.

I'm sick and tired of hearing on news about house parties, restaurants etc all being blamed when it is as clear as day from stats that child/ teenagers are biggest increase at school.

Why is nobody in media reporting on this?

That's nonsense comparison. In April only people with symptoms were tested and with significant symptoms at that. Now close contacts are tested often with no symptoms. Did you compare positivity rate of testing in April and now. The number of kids tested and the number of tests.

So the answer why nobody is reporting is because it's worthless comparison. Btw it's sad to see teachers in this thread are not able to understand statistical comparison should be made. I expected better at least from those in education.

appledrop

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You posted the exact same data on another thread yesterday, so I will post the exact same reply

Did you compare the 14 day incidence report from the 2nd of September? You know, when testing criteria was the same, but schools were not back?

No because only 1, 577 cases in that 14 day period + I'm trying to compare similar numbers to show increase.

By the way creches open since end June for 0-4 age group.

meeeeh

meeeeh wrote: »

That's nonsense comparison. In April only people with symptoms were tested and with significant symptoms at that. Now close contacts are tested often with no symptoms. Did you compare positivity rate of testing in April and now. The number of kids tested and the number of tests.

So the answer why nobody is reporting is because it's worthless comparison.

Usual suspects are thanking the post though even though anyone with any degree of critical thought can see it doesn’t hold water

appledrop

appledrop wrote: »

No because only 1, 577 cases in that 14 day period + I'm trying to compare similar numbers to show increase.

By the way creches open since end June for 0-4 age group.

Your contention is the rate of cases in school age groups has increased as a percentage and this is a result of schools returning, yet the % is identical to that before schools returned. April cannot be compared with September, testing criteria was completely different and most infections were happening in healthcare settings and essential workplaces, not places you find full of kids.

meeeeh

appledrop wrote: »

No because only 1, 577 cases in that 14 day period + I'm trying to compare similar numbers to show increase.

By the way creches open since end June for 0-4 age group.

Similar numbers but completely different test criteria. There were also more people dying then and a lot more people were in hospital. Can we then conclude that Covid is less severe now if we assume data is in any way comparable.

mcsean2163

meeeeh wrote: »

That's nonsense comparison. In April only people with symptoms were tested and with significant symptoms at that. Now close contacts are tested often with no symptoms. Did you compare positivity rate of testing in April and now. The number of kids tested and the number of tests.

So the answer why nobody is reporting is because it's worthless comparison. Btw it's sad to see teachers in this thread are not able to understand statistical comparison should be made. I expected better at least from those in education.

You got there ahead of me.

Loss of smell wasn't even a symptom back then...

meeeeh

mcsean2163 wrote: »

You got there ahead of me.

Loss of smell wasn't even a symptom back then...

Neither were gastro issues for kids.

khalessi

meeeeh wrote: »

Btw it's sad to see teachers in this thread are not able to understand statistical comparison should be made. I expected better at least from those in education.

Ignorant remark from someone who holds himself in such high regard

Blondini

khalessi wrote: »

Ignorant remark from someone who holds himself in such high regard

Wouldn't worry about it, the know-it-all gang are all here tonight!

Pedagogical and mathematical experts apparently.

Blondini

Blondini wrote: »

Wouldn't worry about it, the know-it-all gang are all here tonight!

Pedagogical and mathematical experts apparently.

Classic hurler on the ditch sniping from the sidelines but never willing to actually come up with any critical analysis or original thoughts of their own. Go on, explain how the comparison made by the poster earlier is not a logical fallacy based on a false equivalence between two sets of data

meeeeh

Blondini wrote: »

Wouldn't worry about it, the know-it-all gang are all here tonight!

Pedagogical and mathematical experts apparently.

Actually the sad part is I'm not. It's basics anyone should be able to comprehend.

Blondini

Deleted User wrote: »

Classic hurler on the ditch sniping from the sidelines but never willing to actually come up with any critical analysis or original thoughts of their own. Go on, explain how the comparison made by the poster earlier is not a logical fallacy based on a false equivalence between two sets of data

Nah, not after you ended up crying the last time.

Night.