How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

meeeeh

khalessi wrote: »

Ignorant remark from someone who holds himself in such high regard

Well it's herself. And yes I expect better.

BTW we did stuff like that in Sociology classes in high school which was one of the easy subjects. So yes I would expect people who teach others to know it's completely wrong comparison.

khalessi

meeeeh wrote: »

Well it's herself. And yes I expect better.

BTW we did stuff like that in Sociology classes in high school which was one of the easy subjects. So yes I would expect people who teach others to know it's completely wrong comparison.

HIgh school is different curriculum to Ireland. thanks for your input erroneous as it is

meeeeh

khalessi wrote: »

HIgh school is different curriculum to Ireland. thanks for your input erroneous as it is

Are you telling me critical thinking is something that's not taught in Ireland?

teachinggal123

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Classic hurler on the ditch sniping from the sidelines but never willing to actually come up with any critical analysis or original thoughts of their own. Go on, explain how the comparison made by the poster earlier is not a logical fallacy based on a false equivalence between two sets of data

Can anyone arguing against this do what rand is asking?

Or is it just more smart ass replies and insults from the teachers.

History Queen

I've been mulling over my thoughts on schools reopening. I'm finding it difficult to articulate my feelings but confusion is probably the most apt description.

The attitude towards schools by the HSE/Government is very difficult to understand. On the one hand the need and desire for schools to stay open at full capacity is understandable, however the manner of their opening, in particular in relation to the lack of social distancing and crowded classrooms make it difficult to see them staying open successfully very long.

I find the contradictions regarding close contacts hard to understand yet, I cannot see whose interest it is in to put teachers and students at risk. I'm no conspiracy theorist, but even if I was, there is no benefit to the HSE or Government in having the virus spread more widely throughout the population. Therefore, I'm beginning to wonder have I misunderstood the risks? On the other hand I've read most of the official correspondence to schools re how to reopen and operate, much of it contradicts public health advice both here and abroad.

The point I am trying to make, in a rambling way admittedly, is that the root cause of my own worries is uncertainty. Lack of knowledge, lack of understanding as to why some of the decisions in the education sector have been taken and a lack of clear and rational communication from the Dept has hugely compounded an already stressful situation.

SusanC10

History Queen wrote: »

I've been mulling over my thoughts on schools reopening. I'm finding it difficult to articulate my feelings but confusion is probably the most apt description.

The attitude towards schools by the HSE/Government is very difficult to understand. On the one hand the need and desire for schools to stay open at full capacity is understandable, however the manner of their opening, in particular in relation to the lack of social distancing and crowded classrooms make it difficult to see them staying open successfully very long.

I find the contradictions regarding close contacts hard to understand yet, I cannot see whose interest it is in to put teachers and students at risk. I'm no conspiracy theorist, but even if I was, there is no benefit to the HSE or Government in having the virus spread more widely throughout the population. Therefore, I'm beginning to wonder have I misunderstood the risks? On the other hand I've read most of the official correspondence to schools re how to reopen and operate, much of it contradicts public health advice both here and abroad.

The point I am trying to make, in a rambling way admittedly, is that the root cause of my own worries is uncertainty. Lack of knowledge, lack of understanding as to why some of the decisions in the education sector have been taken and a lack of clear and rational communication from the Dept has hugely compounded an already stressful situation.

This is a fairly accurate summary of my thoughts.

s1ippy

History Queen wrote: »

I've been mulling over my thoughts on schools reopening. I'm finding it difficult to articulate my feelings but confusion is probably the most apt description.

The attitude towards schools by the HSE/Government is very difficult to understand. On the one hand the need and desire for schools to stay open at full capacity is understandable, however the manner of their opening, in particular in relation to the lack of social distancing and crowded classrooms make it difficult to see them staying open successfully very long.

I find the contradictions regarding close contacts hard to understand yet, I cannot see whose interest it is in to put teachers and students at risk. I'm no conspiracy theorist, but even if I was, there is no benefit to the HSE or Government in having the virus spread more widely throughout the population. Therefore, I'm beginning to wonder have I misunderstood the risks? On the other hand I've read most of the official correspondence to schools re how to reopen and operate, much of it contradicts public health advice both here and abroad.

The point I am trying to make, in a rambling way admittedly, is that the root cause of my own worries is uncertainty. Lack of knowledge, lack of understanding as to why some of the decisions in the education sector have been taken and a lack of clear and rational communication from the Dept has hugely compounded an already stressful situation.

This is a very accurate post.

My take on it is that the government knows schools need to be open so that the country doesn't bankrupt itself. They also don't want to have to fund the system adequately (same with health service) or ensure spending on the right things. They definitely don't want to make the job more attractive or easier to get. I genuinely think public opinion has a lot to do with it. Even intelligent Irish people really have it in for teachers, it's like brainwashing combined with a self-fulfilling prophecy.

teachinggal123 wrote: »

Can anyone arguing against this do what rand is asking?

Or is it just more smart ass replies and insults from the teachers.

When you say "the teachers", are you including yourself because allegedly you are (albeit a self-professed terrible) one?

Schools will stay open by hook or by crook, until there are no more subs they have to close. That is going to be a dark time.

JimmyVik

JimmyVik wrote: »

I know. So obviously a couple of shills in there.

Id love to know how much shills get paid these days.
Must ask them where you apply for the job. Could do with an extra few quid in the evenings

Cant make a reasoned argument for yourself - the othere must be shills

Posters such as wireless, irishblessing and history queen make reasoned arguments from genuine positions, while others snipe from the sidelines, attacking the posters who challenge views because they seem so insecure in their views as they cant even make a cogent argument. Nobody on this thread is 100% correct in their view, and everyone should be prepared to have their view challenged when someone finds genuine fault, real or perceived. And the number of thanks you get on a post does not make it correct, rather the ability to defend your position against reasoned argument

JimmyVik

Deleted User wrote: »

Cant make a reasoned argument for yourself - the othere must be shills

Posters such as wireless, irishblessing and history queen make reasoned arguments from genuine positions, while others snipe from the sidelines, attacking the posters who challenge views because they seem so insecure in their views as they cant even make a cogent argument. Nobody on this thread is 100% correct in their view, and everyone should be prepared to have their view challenged when someone finds genuine fault, real or perceived. And the number of thanks you get on a post does not make it correct, rather the ability to defend your position against reasoned argument

You must be on overtime at this rate.

JimmyVik

JimmyVik wrote: »

You must be on overtime at this rate.

Exhibit A

Beasty

Deleted User wrote: »

Cant make a reasoned argument for yourself - the othere must be shills

Posters such as wireless, irishblessing and history queen make reasoned arguments from genuine positions, while others snipe from the sidelines, attacking the posters who challenge views because they seem so insecure in their views as they cant even make a cogent argument. Nobody on this thread is 100% correct in their view, and everyone should be prepared to have their view challenged when someone finds genuine fault, real or perceived. And the number of thanks you get on a post does not make it correct, rather the ability to defend your position against reasoned argument

Do not post in this thread again

facehugger99

Surely the phrase 'echo-chamber' needs to be added to the thread title?

Funsterdelux

facehugger99 wrote: »

Surely the phrase 'echo-chamber' needs to be added to the thread title?

You can say that again

JimmyVik

s1ippy wrote: »

This is a very accurate post.

My take on it is that the government knows schools need to be open so that the country doesn't bankrupt itself. They also don't want to have to fund the system adequately (same with health service) or ensure spending on the right things. They definitely don't want to make the job more attractive or easier to get. I genuinely think public opinion has a lot to do with it. Even intelligent Irish people really have it in for teachers, it's like brainwashing combined with a self-fulfilling prophecy.


When you say "the teachers", are you including yourself because allegedly you are (albeit a self-professed terrible) one?

Schools will stay open by hook or by crook, until there are no more subs they have to close. That is going to be a dark time.

I think you are 100% correct on this.
I believe they are trying to balance the spread of virus with the health of the economy.


What I dont like is that they are bending the rules that are supposed to make places safe for staff and customers elsewhere, so that they dont have to apply them to teachers and students. That is the crime. And they wont even be honest about it. The silence on it is deafening.

s1ippy

s1ippy wrote: »

............

My take on it is that the government knows schools need to be open so that the country doesn't bankrupt itself.................

I think that the government are very keen to keep schools open as it would be massively detrimental to the student population to do anything else.

From their actions to date they don't seem overly bothered about the financial impact of restrictions relative to the public health impact.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0928/1168063-paul-reid-covid-committee/

4,328 children and teachers have been tested and the positivity rate in school cases has been 1.9%

80 odd cases in schools so far.................. doesn't seem loony high

Boggles

Augeo wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0928/1168063-paul-reid-covid-committee/

4,328 children and teachers have been tested and the positivity rate in school cases has been 1.9%

80 odd cases in schools so far.................. doesn't seem loony high

Of course it doesn't.

But when you look at the actual number of kids who have tested positive in that time frame the only logical conclusion is the majority of Irish children testing positive are now home schooled. Weird that.

Also if they have only tested 4000 odd kids since the start of September, the positive rate among-st kids is around 15%. 5 times higher than the rest of the population.

None of the "figures" Reid provided makes any sense.

Jucifer

Augeo wrote: »

From their actions to date they don't seem overly bothered about the financial impact of restrictions relative to the public health impact.

I don’t know, having the schools and crèches back open has had a huge impact on the ability of people in my workplace to do a full days work.

That said, I don’t think it is fair on teachers to be put in a situation where they are clearly expected to be close contacts with children from over 20 households (at least in primary schools where it is impossible for the teachers to fully social distance and still teach). Whereas in hospitals staff who have nothing to do with Covid are 100% protected to the extent that a couple from the same appointment can’t come in for a pregnancy scan together. Developmental checks on infants are cancelled, routine screening appointments are cancelled. None of there things require any contact with other patients and full PPE can be used.

I really don’t get the discrepancy between the treatment of healthcare staff and teachers.

Blondini

Augeo wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0928/1168063-paul-reid-covid-committee/

4,328 children and teachers have been tested and the positivity rate in school cases has been 1.9%

80 odd cases in schools so far.................. doesn't seem loony high

According to Paul Reid yesterday there were 264 cases.

https://www.thejournal.ie/schools-testing-covid-5217543-Sep2020/

wirelessdude01

Blondini wrote: »

According to Paul Reid yesterday there were 264 cases.

https://www.thejournal.ie/schools-te...17543-Sep2020/

Yet there have been nearly 900 cases reported in the age range 5-14 since schools went back according to the figures reported. This doesn't include the majority of 2nd level children as they are included in the 15-24 age range.

Figures all here.


https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/surveillance/covid-1914-dayepidemiologyreports/

Blondini

Blondini wrote: »

According to Paul Reid yesterday there were 264 cases.

https://www.thejournal.ie/schools-testing-covid-5217543-Sep2020/

"THE HSE HAS said more than 4,000 children and teachers have been tested for the coronavirus since schools re-opened, with 264 cases in total linked to schools."

That would be the 80 odd cases passing the virus on....... R number is about 1.7.

History Queen

The lack of funding in our education system being highlighted by the OECD

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/many-secondary-students-lack-access-to-online-learning-amid-covid-19-pandemic-1.4367612?mode=amp

Boggles

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1310877110051975168

5 days waiting for contact tracing

Parent had to ring a principal to notify them their child was positive.

HSE document sent to schools doesn't include a data entry for phone numbers.

---

These are no longer random anecdotal problems being highlighted, a clear pattern is emerging.

We are averaging less than 1 test per school in the country since schools went back.

Meanwhile.

He also confirmed that 3,000 tests for Covid-19 were carried out across 29 meat plants last week

Maybe school staff should get part time jobs in meat plants.

Icyseanfitz

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Yet there have been nearly 900 cases reported in the age range 5-14 since schools went back according to the figures reported. This doesn't include the majority of 2nd level children as they are included in the 15-24 age range.

Figures all here.


https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/surveillance/covid-1914-dayepidemiologyreports/

Catching it in pubs clearly

wirelessdude01

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Yet there have been nearly 900 cases reported in the age range 5-14 since schools went back according to the figures reported. This doesn't include the majority of 2nd level children as they are included in the 15-24 age range.

Figures all here.


https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/surveillance/covid-1914-dayepidemiologyreports/

02nd to 15th Sep 243 cases
15th Sep to 28th Sep 321 cases
That's 564 cases.......... I doubt there was 300 cases yesterday in the age range 5-14.


It is quite reasonable to accept hundreds of kids are getting it from adults and not at school.

wirelessdude01

Augeo wrote: »

02nd to 15th Sep 243 cases
15th Sep to 28th Sep 321 cases
That's 564 cases.......... I doubt there was 300 cases yesterday in the age range 5-14.


It is quite reasonable to accept hundreds of kids are getting it from adults and not at school.

Apologies, I quoted the 15-24 number in error.

s1ippy

Augeo wrote: »

02nd to 15th Sep 243 cases
15th Sep to 28th Sep 321 cases
That's 564 cases.......... I doubt there was 300 cases yesterday in the age range 5-14.


It is quite reasonable to accept hundreds of kids are getting it from adults and not at school.

What are you on about, how can you assume that??

Augeo

Augeo wrote: »

02nd to 15th Sep 243 cases
15th Sep to 28th Sep 321 cases
That's 564 cases.......... I doubt there was 300 cases yesterday in the age range 5-14.


It is quite reasonable to accept hundreds of kids are getting it from adults and not at school.

s1ippy wrote: »

What are you on about, how can you assume that??

Ok, I'll tell you a little story.
Other halves sister is in school. A classmate was tested as her ole lad contracted covid, she tested negative but if she'd tested positive that case would not have been linked to a school.

Of the thousands of folk testing positive loads of them have kids and their kids are contracting Covid from them.

Hence why there are 80 ish positive teachers and students with a further 180 cases linked to schools

Really simple when you look at all the data and join the dots.

Folk here think that all 264 cases in total linked to schools rubbishes the 4,328 children and teachers have been tested and the positivity rate in school cases has been 1.9%......80 odd cases in schools so far data.

It doesn't............ the 80 odd cases from schools passed it on to another 180 people (perhaps the parents, teacher's partner shocker)

Kids can contract covid outside of school, R number is 1.7 ........... 1000 cases a week so that's a few hundred kids that get if from one of the thousand......... shocker.

s1ippy

Augeo wrote: »

Ok, I'll tell you a little story.
Other halves sister is in school. A classmate was tested as her ole lad contracted covid, she tested negative but if she'd tested positive that case would not have been linked to a school.

Of the thousands of folk testing positive loads of them have kids and their kids are contracting Covid from them.

Hence why there are 80 ish positive teachers and students with a further 180 cases linked to schools

Really simple when you look at all the data and join the dots.

Folk here think that all 264 cases in total linked to schools rubbishes the 4,328 children and teachers have been tested and the positivity rate in school cases has been 1.9%......80 odd cases in schools so far data.

It doesn't............ the 80 odd cases from schools passed it on to another 180 people (perhaps the parents, teacher's partner shocker)

Kids can contract covid outside of school, R number is 1.7 ........... 1000 cases a week so that's a few hundred kids that get if from one of the thousand......... shocker.

Yes, absolutely. But if you look at homes, there are only between 2 and probably 8 people you can catch it from. In school there are thousands. Which place has more variables?

Your anecdote would not be applicable in the vast majority of cases.

Boggles

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1311241672395816961