How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

JDD

There is one thing I agree with. It does seem that the Government/DoE are trying to surpress the names of schools that have positive case(s) in the school. I know they want to do this to stop over-worrying parents from taking their children out of the school, even though they might be in a different class and have less chance of catching it from the positive case than they do at the supermarket, but it does foster a sense that we don't have the full information.

I fully expect a class/pod in our primary school to close in the next month. I'm slightly surprised one hasn't closed already, there are 600 pupils in the school and we're in an area of Dublin that had high enough cases a couple of weeks ago.

Beasty

Blondini wrote: »

Nah, not after you ended up crying the last time.

Night.

Threabanned

teachinggal123

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Only good people like yourself mention school closures.

Teachers in my school are openly discussing school closures at this stage. Schools were always going to close before Christmas ... I think most people knew that (including all the teachers and most of the parents I know).

Before anyone asks what I'm advocating ... I describe this below. This is for the benefit of children, their families and teachers alike.

1. Close all the schools immediately for the entire month of October. This will be controversial, but we are heading for closure anyway. Closing now just means less people sick, and will allow the Govt to make a plan for online/hybrid.
2. The Govt get their sh1t together very quickly and develop a comprehensive, standardized online learning plan. This would be agreed with the teachers unions and compulsory for all teachers. Give hardware/laptops to those who need it, and make the schools available for teachers who don't have broadband at home.
3. Teachers to receive comprehensive training in hybrid/online teaching through October. This will also give teachers time to plan for taking their classes and materials online.
4. Get everyone back to school using a hybrid/online model from November. The fine detail of this would have to be worked out, but would probably mean some learning at home and also some attendance at school (maybe on a week-on-week-off basis).
5. All of this to be supported by properly resourced cleaning procedures for schools, and high quality PPE for teachers and other school staff.

I know this is not a perfect plan and will mean horrible inconvenience for the month of October, but we are heading for closure of schools anyway. At least my proposal will mean that schools will reopen more safely in November with a plan for online/hybrid.

We cannot have the same situation as last March when the schools closed suddenly with absolutely no plan. Parents are unlikely to accept that again ... and most here will agree that the teaching was *uneven* at best with some teachers trying and others doing nothing.

BTW if anyone is looking to allocate blame, this all falls squarely at the feet of the Govt (not us teachers). They had an opportunity to plan for this over the Summer and did f33k all. Now we have the current horrible, unsustainable situation that has put us all in danger.

alentejo

teachinggal123 wrote: »

Teachers in my school are openly discussing school closures at this stage. Schools were always going to close before Christmas ... I think most people knew that (including all the teachers and most of the parents I know).

Before anyone asks what I'm advocating ... I describe this below. This is for the benefit of children, their families and teachers alike.

1. Close all the schools immediately for the entire month of October. This will be controversial, but we are heading for closure anyway. Closing now just means less people sick, and will allow the Govt to make a plan for online/hybrid.
2. The Govt get their sh1t together very quickly and develop a comprehensive, standardized online learning plan. This would be agreed with the teachers unions and compulsory for all teachers. Give hardware/laptops to those who need it, and make the schools available for teachers who don't have broadband at home.
3. Teachers to receive comprehensive training in hybrid/online teaching through October. This will also give teachers time to plan for taking their classes and materials online.
4. Get everyone back to school using a hybrid/online model from November. The fine detail of this would have to be worked out, but would probably mean some learning at home and also some attendance at school (maybe on a week-on-week-off basis).
5. All of this to be supported by properly resourced cleaning procedures for schools, and high quality PPE for teachers and other school staff.

I know this is not a perfect plan and will mean horrible inconvenience for the month of October, but we are heading for closure of schools anyway. At least my proposal will mean that schools will reopen more safely in November with a plan for online/hybrid.

We cannot have the same situation as last March when the schools closed suddenly with absolutely no plan. Parents are unlikely to accept that again ... and most here will agree that the teaching was *uneven* at best with some teachers trying and others doing nothing.

BTW if anyone is looking to allocate blame, this all falls squarely at the feet of the Govt (not us teachers). They had an opportunity to plan for this over the Summer and did f33k all. Now we have the current horrible, unsustainable situation that has put us all in danger.

The Covid Crisis will last 2 to4 years. We cant sacrifice our childrens education which will have long term outcomes for decades to come.

Yes some classes, pods or even in some instances schoools may be required to close, however the closures should be no more than 2 to 3 weeks. We must as a society keep the schools open.

covid20

alentejo wrote: »

The Covid Crisis will last 2 to4 years. We cant sacrifice our childrens education which will have long term outcomes for decades to come.

Yes some classes, pods or even in some instances schoools may be required to close, however the closures should be no more than 2 to 3 weeks. We must as a society keep the schools open.

I would say under no circumstances should we entertain the notion of 2 to 4 years. Absolute madness and a total lack of ambition.

Like driving Malin to Mizen on a flat tyre.

teachinggal123

alentejo wrote: »

The Covid Crisis will last 2 to4 years. We cant sacrifice our childrens education which will have long term outcomes for decades to come.

Yes some classes, pods or even in some instances schoools may be required to close, however the closures should be no more than 2 to 3 weeks. We must as a society keep the schools open.

I don’t agree.

The current situation is unsustainable. Schools are weeks away from closure imho.

Universities have online/hybrid for the foreseeable future. This can work for schools too if done properly with full buyin from teachers, parents and children.

History Queen

teachinggal123 wrote: »

I don’t agree.

The current situation is unsustainable. Schools are weeks away from closure imho.

Universities have online/hybrid for the foreseeable future. This can work for schools too if done properly with full buyin from teachers, parents and children.

I also wonder how they are going to address the issue for next years leaving certs of unequal access to the curriculum.

ie. Student in school A was at home for8 weeks due to school being closed at different period due to covid, student in school B was in school all yearas their school didn't need to close. Both students expected to sit same exam.

If there wasan agreed distance/blended learning strategy student A would be at a limited disadvantage but without that, they could be significantly disadvantaged through no fault of their own.

Beasty

Beasty wrote: »

Do not post in this thread again

raind threadban lifted following discussion with user

teachinggal123

History Queen wrote: »

I also wonder how they are going to address the issue for next years leaving certs of unequal access to the curriculum.

ie. Student in school A was at home for8 weeks due to school being closed at different period due to covid, student in school B was in school all yearas their school didn't need to close. Both students expected to sit same exam.

If there was an agreed distance/blended learning strategy student A would be at a limited disadvantage but without that, they could be significantly disadvantaged through no fault of their own.

Exactly.

wirelessdude01

History Queen wrote: »

I also wonder how they are going to address the issue for next years leaving certs of unequal access to the curriculum.

ie. Student in school A was at home for8 weeks due to school being closed at different period due to covid, student in school B was in school all yearas their school didn't need to close. Both students expected to sit same exam.

If there wasan agreed distance/blended learning strategy student A would be at a limited disadvantage but without that, they could be significantly disadvantaged through no fault of their own.

Always said the curriculum should have been narrowed for the 20/21 leaving certs.

hello2020

teachinggal123 wrote: »

I don’t agree.

The current situation is unsustainable. Schools are weeks away from closure imho.

Universities have online/hybrid for the foreseeable future. This can work for schools too if done properly with full buyin from teachers, parents and children.

well said..why small innocent kids are put in danger of contacting virus while adults are asked to stay apart

hello2020

alentejo wrote: »

The Covid Crisis will last 2 to4 years. We cant sacrifice our childrens education which will have long term outcomes for decades to come.

Yes some classes, pods or even in some instances schoools may be required to close, however the closures should be no more than 2 to 3 weeks. We must as a society keep the schools open.

What about pre-school and junior infant kids? they will not lose much if they are sent to school for couple of days a week only till some vaccine is available..

really difficult to understand why are innocent kids are put in danger of contacting the virus while adults WFH

Icyseanfitz

hello2020 wrote: »

What about pre-school and junior infant kids? they will not lose much if they are sent to school for couple of days a week only till some vaccine is available..

really difficult to understand why are innocent kids are put in danger of contacting the virus while adults WFH

Kids are in school so that parents can work, that's it really at the moment.

wirelessdude01

hello2020 wrote: »

really difficult to understand why are innocent kids are put in danger of contacting the virus while adults WFH

Education and economy. Which one comes first depends on the person answering. They are certainly interchangeable but also connected.

morebabies

Can I ask 2 dumb questions?

A household of six or seven, 2 adults and 4 or 5 children. Let's say one child, Child A tests positive and so the household isolates for the 14 days but no one else has symptoms or tests positive. By day 10, a second family member shows symptoms and tests positive, and maybe other family members show symptoms in the days to come . Should child A still isolate and stay off school for the whole duration of the virus circulating around their home, which could take weeks? I would think yes, even if they recover, could they not still bring the virus to school on their clothes, etc.?

Next: if a child tests positive, gets over the worst part of the illness, but still has a lingering bad cough 4 weeks out from diagnosis, could they still be contagious?

Just thinking of how viruses normally travel around our household, and also when kids are asthmatic, their coughs tend to drag on for weeks.

alentejo

teachinggal123 wrote: »

I don’t agree.

The current situation is unsustainable. Schools are weeks away from closure imho.

Universities have online/hybrid for the foreseeable future. This can work for schools too if done properly with full buyin from teachers, parents and children.

Do we have data to back that up? Yes, more children have caught Covid over the past few weeks. This was to be expected. Have any/many teachers caught Covid.

We need to live with this disease. If we are closing all bars, restaurants, cafes and other social outlets, so be it, however we cant as a society just abandon schools. Like I said, we may need to close some schools for up to 3 weeks,

Icyseanfitz

alentejo wrote: »

Do we have data to back that up? Yes, more children have caught Covid over the past few weeks. This was to be expected. Have any/many teachers caught Covid.

We need to live with this disease. If we are closing all bars, restaurants, cafes and other social outlets, so be it, however we cant as a society just abandon schools. Like I said, we may need to close some schools for up to 3 weeks,

We do not need to abandon schools, we just need to look at some form of a blended learning plan for the moment in order for children to safely receive their education.

wirelessdude01

I disagree that schools need to close. Haven't heard any teachers or parents talking about wholescale school closures.

I do think that numbers in schools at secondary and possibly upper primary level will possibly need to be reduced at some stage.

Half in, half out, blended, remote. Whatever you want to call it should have been properly teased out while the dept had time as a workable plan B for when it was needed. Wasn't as if they spent those months properly fleshing out the calculated grades as today's fiasco shows.

covid20

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Education and economy. Which one comes first depends on the person answering. They are certainly interchangeable but also connected.

1. Health.
2. Economy.
3. Education

All interdependent

deliege

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

I disagree that schools need to close. Haven't heard any teachers or parents talking about wholescale school closures.

I do think that numbers in schools at secondary and possibly upper primary level will possibly need to be reduced at some stage.

Half in, half out, blended, remote. Whatever you want to call it should have been properly teased out while the dept had time as a workable plan B for when it was needed. Wasn't as if they spent those months properly fleshing out the calculated grades as today's fiasco shows.

Totally agree. And totally do not understand why parents who are in a position to help with that (i.e. having their kids following school curriculum partly or totally from home, thus decreasing numbers in class) and are only asking for minimum support are not only not supported but told straight away "no, or register for homeschooling, no support".

Look at this FAQ. Some answers are really borderline obtuse, imho.

https://www.tusla.ie/tess/faqs/

jrosen

I dont think schools need to close, YET!

I have one friend who's child is home for 2 weeks. They are having feck all contact with the school just some work being sent. So here in lies the issue. No real standard of education is being delivered. Now we can play the blame game and we all know where blame lies but ultimately untill this changes and changes drastically we can not have any level of remote /distance learning.

As much as I dont want to make any teacher feel like a babysitter because its not an opinion I hold there is nothing in place for Ireland having thousands of kids suddenly at home. Even if parents had money to burn there isn't enough childminders to go around and certainly not enough that could support home learning.

So even if we saw a blended learning approach there is no denying that there will be kids who will suffer because they do not have the support at home.

covid20

alentejo wrote: »

Do we have data to back that up? Yes, more children have caught Covid over the past few weeks. This was to be expected. Have any/many teachers caught Covid.

We need to live with this disease. If we are closing all bars, restaurants, cafes and other social outlets, so be it, however we cant as a society just abandon schools. Like I said, we may need to close some schools for up to 3 weeks,

"Can't"

We can and should do whatever is needed to regain normal life as a priority.

hello2020

covid20 wrote: »

1. Health.
2. Economy.
3. Education

All interdependent

in practice we are now having this in reverse order

also opening of schools is more to do with child minding then education !

Icyseanfitz

covid20 wrote: »

"Can't"

We can and should do whatever is needed to regain normal life as a priority.

Life is not normal at the moment and won't be until a vaccine is created or we just give up.

teachinggal123

alentejo wrote: »

Do we have data to back that up? Yes, more children have caught Covid over the past few weeks. This was to be expected. Have any/many teachers caught Covid.

We need to live with this disease. If we are closing all bars, restaurants, cafes and other social outlets, so be it, however we cant as a society just abandon schools. Like I said, we may need to close some schools for up to 3 weeks,

We have common sense to back that up.

I don't think anyone here is suggesting we 'abandon' schools. But we do need to do schools differently and not keep making the mistake of thinking that education can only happen in the traditional classroom.

meeeeh

hello2020 wrote: »

in practice we are now having this in reverse order

also opening of schools is more to do with child minding then education !

Our society developed the way that education times overlap with the way people work. Do you want return society to good old times when women stopped working after marriage and one partner would be dependant on another. In case of single parent families it would mean parents being dependant on social welfare.

You might consider schools doubling up as childcare a bad thing but I'm very glad as woman that I don't need to sacrifice income and financial independence to have children. And I'm in very happy marriage, imagine those who are not.

meeeeh

teachinggal123 wrote: »

We have common sense to back that up.

I don't think anyone here is suggesting we 'abandon' schools. But we do need to do schools differently and not keep making the mistake of thinking that education can only happen in the traditional classroom.

Again how do we restructure society to enable that?

frank8211

https://english.radio.cz/schools-open-czech-republic-amid-surge-coronavirus-cases-8690725

Secondary schools in Czech Rep to close

covid20

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

Life is not normal at the moment and won't be until a vaccine is created or we just give up.

To me that attitude is a form of giving up though Sean. I genuinely believe we could and should do an awful lot better.

There is no one, who in hindsight would disagree with shutting borders last February and saving us a big headache.

covid20

meeeeh wrote: »

Our society developed the way that education times overlap with the way people work. Do you want return society to good old times when women stopped working after marriage and one partner would be dependant on another. In case of single parent families it would mean parents being dependant on social welfare.

You might consider schools doubling up as childcare a bad thing but I'm very glad as woman that I don't need to sacrifice income and financial independence to have children. And I'm in very happy marriage, imagine those who are not.

It would make many very happy, not everyone, but many would love the option. The problem is affordability, not a desire to work.

Who doesn't want more time with their kids?