How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

wirelessdude01

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

I've posted this before but all the sniping on here is merely white noise.

Shame the WUMs on here won't ever see teacher-student working relationships, people having a bit of craic and getting some work done each day, also watching how everyone has adapted calmly to sanitising, wearing masks etc.

Discussing with the students their observations on the pandemic, how news of Trump having covid was the talk of the school on Friday, how rubbish Man U are now will the gaa season go ahead, or will the LC be cancelled this year (they all want it to go ahead in our place due to farce of predictive) etc.

The bond established in a school environment over the 5/6 years students spend with us is lost on those with a chip on their shoulder. Their loss.

But, but, but teachers are lazy...

combat14

Looks like something has to change .. numbers have gone up by 4.5 times per day in the last month

NPHET warns of 1,300 daily Covid-19 cases by end of month if trends continue

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/nphet-warns-of-1-300-daily-covid-19-cases-by-end-of-month-if-trends-continue-1.4371541?mode=amp

Icyseanfitz

combat14 wrote: »

Looks like something has to change .. numbers have gone up by 4.5 times per day in the last month

NPHET warns of 1,300 daily Covid-19 cases by end of month if trends continue

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/nphet-warns-of-1-300-daily-covid-19-cases-by-end-of-month-if-trends-continue-1.4371541?mode=amp

Whatever they do won't be schools anyway

combat14

Covid-19: 10 more deaths, 613 further cases plus 726 more cases in northern ireland = 1339 reported on the island here in one day

schools are only back 1 month and starting to look like the country is losing a handle on things....

what's next are we to wait for the deaths to start stacking up before proper online learning plan considered ..

hopefully a vaccine will be ready for early next year

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1003/1169176-covid-data-figures-ireland/

appledrop

combat14 wrote: »

Looks like something has to change .. numbers have gone up by 4.5 times per day in the last month

NPHET warns of 1,300 daily Covid-19 cases by end of month if trends continue

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/nphet-warns-of-1-300-daily-covid-19-cases-by-end-of-month-if-trends-continue-1.4371541?mode=amp

Anyone with any cop on knows its the schools that are spreading it . 770 cases in University in UK + only 10% had symptoms. As we know thankfully most kids get very few or no symptoms so its spreading like wildfire through community to adults etc + then they are wondering why the community transmission is so high.

They can't use their bulls**t excuse of pubs or restaurants in Dublin as not open.

Whocare

Should the school be closed again as it pretty obvious it the school are cause the rise in covid cases

niamh247

appledrop wrote: »

Anyone with any cop on knows its the schools that are spreading it . 770 cases in University in UK + only 10% had symptoms. As we know thankfully most kids get very few or no symptoms so its spreading like wildfire through community to adults etc + then they are wondering why the community transmission is so high.

They can't use their bulls**t excuse of pubs or restaurants in Dublin as not open.

Everyone in the authority knew what's happening. But no one can say the emperor has no cloths on. No one can dare to link schools to the rise of cases. This drunk country has lost all it's sanity. A huge goofup of massive scale is going on.

hesaidshesaid

Hi there I'm a primary teacher.

I don't think schools should be closed, not primary schools anyway. Children suffered socially and academically during lockdown. The delight on their faces on the first day back was evident.

However, despite our best efforts, schools are unsafe. Pods and bubbles are just fancy names for the table groups and class groups that have always existed. Social distancing is a myth, school buildings still contain the same number of pupils as they always did. The DES response has been frustrating and cowardly. They issued an unrealistic response plan and are now sending the Inspectorate out with checklists to point the accusing finger at schools who could never achieve the criteria of their, frankly bull****, plan.

So what to do? IMHO, testing and contact tracing are the only tools to keep schools open. If a positive case is identified in a class, then the entire class, the teacher and any relevant SNAs /learning support teachers need to be tested immediately. Anyone who tests positive isolates, everyone else goes back to school. Repeat ad nauseum.

No teacher I know wants the schools to close. The test/contact trace method above would be costly and stretch testing capacity but I believe it would keep us open. It's not happening at the moment, by the way. We've already had our first positive case but as the child was out of school for more than 48 hours before being tested, the HSE decided that not one other child or adult needed to be tested. Make of that what you will.

Beasty

Threads merged

niamh247

hesaidshesaid wrote: »

Hi there I'm a primary teacher.

I don't think schools should be closed, not primary schools anyway. Children suffered socially and academically during lockdown. The delight on their faces on the first day back was evident.

.....

No teacher I know wants the schools to close. The test/contact trace method above would be costly and stretch testing capacity but I believe it would keep us open. It's not happening at the moment, by the way. We've already had our first positive case but as the child was out of school for more than 48 hours before being tested, the HSE decided that not one other child or adult needed to be tested. Make of that what you will.

Thanks for the info!. If you don't mind me asking, what do you think is the justification to keep schools open? Is it just "delight on their faces .." or anything else? The social and academic problem could have been solved by online as well, though not so ideally as physical class room. But is it worth taking all this risk and mental tension? Do you think this psychological tension, anxiety and stress (for both kids and parents) is what is called mental health benefit offered by re-opening of schools? Do you think kids are really learning and teachers teaching well under these new situation, or is it that everyone is just pretending to keep business as usual?

Purplewaters

niamh247 wrote: »

Thanks for the info!. If you don't mind me asking, what do you think is the justification to keep schools open? Is it just "delight on their faces .." or anything else? The social and academic problem could have been solved by online as well, though not so ideally as physical class room. But is it worth taking all this risk and mental tension? Do you think this psychological tension, anxiety and stress (for both kids and parents) is what is called mental health benefit offered by re-opening of schools? Do you think kids are really learning and teachers teaching well under these new situation, or is it that everyone is just pretending to keep business as usual?

I agree. It is nice for them to be back and for parents to have some time away from their kids also. And thats fine. But it is also nice for adults to socialise. But we cant. To go to restaurants. But we cant. To be within 2m of people but we cant. I feel the message has been lost here as we all know jt wohld be nicer for schools to be open but the dept opened them identically to March before covid besides some moved around furniture and extra disinfectant and sanitiser. If they'd opened them half and hapd safely then it probably could have continued.

The_Brood

hesaidshesaid wrote: »

Hi there I'm a primary teacher.

I don't think schools should be closed, not primary schools anyway. Children suffered socially and academically during lockdown. The delight on their faces on the first day back was evident.

However, despite our best efforts, schools are unsafe. Pods and bubbles are just fancy names for the table groups and class groups that have always existed. Social distancing is a myth, school buildings still contain the same number of pupils as they always did. The DES response has been frustrating and cowardly. They issued an unrealistic response plan and are now sending the Inspectorate out with checklists to point the accusing finger at schools who could never achieve the criteria of their, frankly bull****, plan.

So what to do? IMHO, testing and contact tracing are the only tools to keep schools open. If a positive case is identified in a class, then the entire class, the teacher and any relevant SNAs /learning support teachers need to be tested immediately. Anyone who tests positive isolates, everyone else goes back to school. Repeat ad nauseum.

No teacher I know wants the schools to close. The test/contact trace method above would be costly and stretch testing capacity but I believe it would keep us open. It's not happening at the moment, by the way. We've already had our first positive case but as the child was out of school for more than 48 hours before being tested, the HSE decided that not one other child or adult needed to be tested. Make of that what you will.

In what possible way is the "delight on faces" and easing "social suffering" a valid excuse for keeping some establishments open, while in pretty much all other industries people are told it doesn't matter what they are missing out on or what they are suffering, the "health of the nation" means they must be closed down?

This is just extreme hypocrisy.

To any pleas about businesses and futures and mental health the government and its supporters go "nope, we must beat Covid, nothing trumps that. Suck it up."

But schools? "Well look at those smiles, how can you say no?"

We're all in this together, sure we are....

meeeeh

niamh247 wrote: »

Everyone in the authority knew what's happening. But no one can say the emperor has no cloths on. No one can dare to link schools to the rise of cases. This drunk country has lost all it's sanity. A huge goofup of massive scale is going on.

It's international conspiracy because most other countries also opened the schools. ECDC, WHO, Illuminati, Freemasons are all part of the cover up. But keep up the good work I'm sure you and Appledrop did some uber intelligent statistical analysis that proves exactly it's the schools.

And yes schools contribute to spread of virus but unless you can actually provide any reliable data for the claims they are the main cause you are just another victim of Corona conspiracy theory virus. That one is becoming more harmful that Corona itself and it equally infects left and right lulas.

Icyseanfitz

Another week of unchecked and unsafe madness starts tomorrow, stay safe school staff and students.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

Another week of unchecked and unsafe madness starts tomorrow, stay safe school staff and students.

Big week this week, open night and first PT meeting replacement activities

irishblessing

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Big week this week, open night and first PT meeting replacement activities

What does that entail??

Icyseanfitz

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

Another week of unchecked and unsafe madness starts tomorrow, stay safe school staff and students.

I second that.

Thank you to all the teachers that are doing all they can.

Jaded Walker

meeeeh wrote: »

It's international conspiracy because most other countries also opened the schools. ECDC, WHO, Illuminati, Freemasons are all part of the cover up. But keep up the good work I'm sure you and Appledrop did some uber intelligent statistical analysis that proves exactly it's the schools.

And yes schools contribute to spread of virus but unless you can actually provide any reliable data for the claims they are the main cause you are just another victim of Corona conspiracy theory virus. That one is becoming more harmful that Corona itself and it equally infects left and right lulas.

Do you know that over 1.200 school going children tested positive from the beginning of the school term until 27th September? Did you know that there were higher case numbers every week?

beggars_bush

As I've said before, schools rely on parents to be sensible with where the kids go every evening and at weekends

There are thousands of communion parties happening every weekend across the country not adhering to guidelines

meeeeh

Jaded Walker wrote: »

Do you know that over 1.200 school going children tested positive from the beginning of the school term until 27th September? Did you know that there were higher case numbers every week?

Do you know that case numbers are rising 4% since end of June when schools were not opened. (As per prof. Nolan). Considering that's happening it's kind of logical the numbers are rising, however it kind of isn't logical that the main cause are schools since the rise is at the same rate as it was in July and August. It would seem to me schools are reflecting what is happening in general but not driving it.

Smacruairi

meeeeh wrote: »

Do you know that case numbers are rising 4% since end of June when schools were not opened. (As per prof. Nolan). Considering that's happening it's kind of logical the numbers are rising, however it kind of isn't logical that the main cause are schools since the rise is at the same rate as it was in July and August. It would seem to me schools are reflecting what is happening in general but not driving it.

I thought schools would be far worse than they are at present, I'm pleasantly surprised to be honest. However, as someone in Dublin with no social places open, you can't help but opine that schools have to be pushing the numbers up. Every media statement about the numbers going up, eg today's on rte, mention numbers going up, but then quickly rush to reassure that schools will remain open, in total contradiction to the recommended advice. You have to admit that it sounds bogus.

To give you a practical example from a school. We have classes of 26 at the moment. We looked at booking a bus to bring them to Dublinia. Bus refused to take them unless they were 50%,so only 13 per bus. Then Dublinia refused to take them completely as they are not entertaining mixed households.so back to the classroom so. I get that it's about reducing mix in the community but when you have a community of 700 going home to their sisters in different schools, their parents working in diff environments, it makes a mockery of the whole thing to be honest.

I'm not a covid denier, and I've actually lessened my fear based on working first hand with the school, but the hypocrisy surrounding everything is very hard to take. You either value public safety and lives, or to dont. School communities are either members of the public or they are not.

meeeeh

Is recommended advice to close schools? I haven't seen advice like that (except maybe from odd individual but then you also have people suggesting we should let virus rip through younger people).

Icyseanfitz

What i can't grasp is why people take school going students and numbers for them in isolation, as if it should only be within a school building, at the correct time of day, at a specific age that covid appears and can be counted as a school case.

1million+ students are in full circulation at the moment, every rising covid demographic is connected to them in some form, kids have parents/extended family who they can contract and spread to, those family members have work colleagues that they can then spread too, those people might spread it to jim in the shop etc etc. Who then spreads to his son who goes to a different school and starts the same process there. Schools give this virus a huge vector for infection within the entire population, is it causing it by itself in isolation? Of course not ffs.

Smacruairi

meeeeh wrote: »

Is recommended advice to close schools? I haven't seen advice like that (except maybe from odd individual but then you also have people suggesting we should let virus rip through younger people).

No one is recommending school closing.

meeeeh

Smacruairi wrote: »

No one is recommending school closing.

You said that schools will remain open in total contradiction to recommendations...

meeeeh

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

What i can't grasp is why people take school going students and numbers for them in isolation, as if it should only be within a school building, at the correct time of day, at a specific age that covid appears and can be counted as a school case.

1million+ students are in full circulation at the moment, every rising covid demographic is connected to them in some form, kids have parents/extended family who they can contract and spread to, those family members have work colleagues that they can then spread too, those people might spread it to jim in the shop etc etc. Who then spreads to his son who goes to a different school and starts the same process there. Schools give this virus a huge vector for infection within the entire population, is it causing it by itself in isolation? Of course not ffs.

No but the same argument could be made that pubs should be closed, all workplaces should be closed and so on. Of course nothing is in isolation but why would you want to limit activities that affect least at risk group first? It's illogical and it's pandering to people who just enjoy being afraid.

It was exciting for some when everything was closed down but you can't solve unhappiness people have with their own life by closing things for everyone.

irishblessing

meeeeh wrote: »

No but the same argument could be made that pubs should be closed, all workplaces should be closed and so on. Of course nothing is in isolation but why would you want to limit activities that affect least at risk group first? It's illogical and it's pandering to people who just enjoy being afraid.

It was exciting for some when everything was closed down but you can't solve unhappiness people have with their own life by closing things for everyone.

Because it affects the family they live with, the community they're a part of, and that in turn affects the capacity of our hospitals?

The last sentence of yours is just a low dig, did that make you feel better?

meeeeh

irishblessing wrote: »

Because it affects the family they live with, the community they're a part of, and that in turn affects the capacity of our hospitals?

The last sentence of yours is just a low dig, did that make you feel better?

It's an observation not a dig. There are people who were very happy during lockdown but that is not a permament solution. And maybe the family members should be then separated from the kids. It's mostly grandparents who are affected.

BTW it's quite clear majority are happy with the school reopening so I would expect them to close first. Neither will majority of workplaces.

Smacruairi

meeeeh wrote: »

You said that schools will remain open in total contradiction to recommendations...

Exactly. Thanks for understanding the ire. The litany of other options which have been explained in this thread to you and your colleagues should form the backbone of the alternatives. Thanks for agreeing that change is needed.

wirelessdude01

I see the examiner is reporting that NPHET are recommending a nationwide level 4.