How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

Newbienoob

Man with broke phone wrote: »

Will probably have to call off the school year in some counties, I can see serious unprecedented teaching job losses across the country.

Kids will still need to be taught remotely, there will be no job losses.

brookers

Warbeastrior wrote: »

Eventually these digs at teachers start to become pathetic.

Im not a teacher but i just cant understand why there is this underlying dislike of teachers, i find amongst my peers there was even a reluctance for them to do the homework with their children, a type of begrudgery attitude, poorly Irish of course. The constant rant about holidays and hours worked by teachers is such a non argument. I worked with people in sales who were so lazy. I worked with people in the civil service who had head phones in so they could listen to music and were never in fridays and monday. I worked recently with somebody who did not do her fair share. I know farmers who lie on a couch all day and just do the bare amount to get by. Nurses can by lazy too and so can absolutely everybody else on the planet. I probably have taken tea breaks that were too long. We are in this together, lets try and get our children back to school safely and keep the staff safe too.

am_zarathustra

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/07/brain-fog-heart-damage-covid-19-s-lingering-problems-alarm-scientists#:~:text=2%20Shortness%20of%20breath%20Doctors,cases%20are%20also%20at%20risk.

"The likelihood of a patient developing persistent symptoms is hard to pin down because different studies track different outcomes and follow survivors for different lengths of time. One group in Italy found that 87% of a patient cohort hospitalized for acute COVID-19 was still struggling 2 months later. Data from the COVID Symptom Study, which uses an app into which millions of people in the United States, United Kingdom, and Sweden have tapped their symptoms, suggest 10% to 15% of people—including some “mild” cases—don’t quickly recover. But with the crisis just months old, no one knows how far into the future symptoms will endure, and whether COVID-19 will prompt the onset of chronic diseases.!

Nice article outlining some issues identified so far and the start of the trickle of stats we should see over the next year outlining long term effect.

downthemiddle

markodaly wrote: »

I still see the same teachers doing their best to stay at home come September.

Every edge case is being brought up as an excuse and a 'what if'.

Once kids are back in School, we will see that the worry will be mostly for nothing. Sure, there will be the odd school closed here and there because a student or teacher got infected, but its an an going situation and things will be a new normal this school year.
Teachers just have to adapt.

Welcome back Marko. We have missed your thoughtful, insightful, teacher friendly posts. I'm sure we can look forward to another gem or two next week.

wirelessdude01

Came across this from a teacher on Facebook. It came about from a tweet from Joseph's Madigan, our Minister for Special Education.


ATTENTION PARENTS!! I can't remain silent on this any longer.

Shocking tweet from Minister for Special Education Josepha Madigan suggesting pupils pose no threat of spreading Covid. This is gross misinformation. If the Minister can't keep up with the latest advice from either the NPHET or the ECDC, she should consider her position. The ECDC stated conclusively this week that 'when they have symptoms, children shed the virus in similar quantities to adults and can infect others in a similar way to adults'.

The government's reckless spin to reopen schools at all costs is frightening, especially if they are not even in possession of the facts! What schools have in common with meat plants and direct provision centres is large numbers from different settings in confined, poorly ventilated spaces, with little to no distancing, insufficient provision of PPE and haphazard protocols. With average class sizes in the 28-30 range and no teachers or infrastructure for splitting classes, how do people imagine their children will be protected never mind taught? The Dept, after much pressure from teachers and on foot of the ECDC guidelines, conceded on Friday that masks should be worn by teachers and students. But only in Secondary schools. So a 12 year old in Secondary school needs to wear a mask, but a 12 year old in primary school doesn't. There's no logic here. No one wants our children to have to wear masks but if distancing is not possible (and it's not) what's the alternative?

Recent events in Israel where schools reopened with poor planning, irregular use of masks, and no proper distancing should give us all pause for concern, as the result was huge clusters, with large numbers of students, teachers and their families infected and with one teacher dying. German schools are already having problems and they've just reopened. Schools that opened successfully elsewhere had the following things in common: negligible community spread of the virus, small class sizes (ie 15 and lower) and mandatory mask wearing. That is not where Ireland is at.

And from looking at social media, a lot of parents seem to have their heads in the sand, perhaps because we are all desperate to get back to normal and we want our children in school. Some schools with up to date facilities will fare better, but the majority of schools can't guarantee safety for your children, and I say this as a teacher AND a parent. Teachers are shouting about this to the DES and the unions but no one is listening, because teacher bashing is a national pastime, regardless of the fact that we are shouting about the safety of our students and their families as much as our own. But it's no wonder when the government colludes in it and is happy for schools to take the rap. I'm sorry, but we've muddled along for long enough and I refuse to tell any parent that their child will be safe when I don't believe it. If you want to see this as another teacher 'whingeing' or trying to wriggle out of going back to school, I've no interest in trying to change your mind, but I can tell you there'll be lots of whingeing in a few weeks if schools go back in the current circumstances.

Even if you're not concerned about your own child getting it, you need to consider others getting it, including teachers, and bringing it home to vulnerable family members. I've seen first hand, losing my mam, the heartache this virus leaves in its wake and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. But I'll be accused by many of scaremongering. So be it. What I'm saying is based on the latest scientific evidence and on 23 years teaching in real Irish schools, not the fantasy ones the government's reopening plan depicts.

It shows images of 'pods' and 'bubbles'; it has diagrams of spacious classes and lots of suggestions for 1m distancing; it talks about 'overspill' classrooms where students will be taught via live streaming, and supervised by substitute teachers. In most of my classes, there's barely room for bags between desks, never mind 1m, so overspill would be the only option. But apart from the fact that most schools don't have extra rooms to accommodate overspill, the technology doesn't exist in the majority to do live streaming, and the shortage of subs means there are no teachers to look after them in any event. Although the Dept does say that where subs can't be found, Special Education Teachers can be used. What an insult to our most vulnerable students who are already at the very bottom of the government's priority list. So despite Josepha Madigan's insistence last week that students with special needs will get extra back to school support, her promise is at odds with the Dept's own guidelines.

As for the suggestion that if we can't accommodate distancing in classrooms or create overspill rooms, we can just cram 90 students (3 classes of 30) into the gym and teach them there, it simply beggars belief. Apart from the safety issues with such large numbers in a poorly ventilated space, what kind of teaching do you imagine will take place with 90 students and no access to any resources with which to teach? Meanwhile, the rest of society is confined to 50 people in indoor settings. Does the Dept think that Covid 19 hates school, or that students and their teachers and families are immune, or do they simply not care? Perhaps the Dept's preoccupation with 'bubbles' is due to the fact that it seems to exist in one, totally removed from the reality in schools and not even in touch with one another or with the most recent science.

It is all spin, of the most despicable kind, because it involves our children. The bottom line is that schools, as a result of years of underfunding and neglect, are currently in no position to reopen safely. And while schools are scrambling, largely unsuccessfully, to put measures in place, the Ministers are conveniently on their 'staycations' and when they resume, they will return to Citywest Convention Centre at a cost of €25,000 a day to ensure adequate distancing!

Looking at the rising figures, this decision may be out of our hands at this point, but if it is, be aware that the Dept has no back up plan in place to support students, teachers or parents with either home or blended learning. Just as they insisted the Leaving Cert would take place 'by hook or by crook' and then they had to backtrack, they've been insisting schools will reopen, but have no plans for what will happen if they can't and we'll all be left to pick up the pieces. If the nation could have summoned up the same indignation about the neglect of our education system as they can now about the pubs not opening, we might not be in this position. And if your response to all of this is, 'But schools HAVE to open!', you might want to consider how quickly they'll be shut down again and for much longer if safe protocols are not in place to ensure they can actually stay open. And who knows then when you'll get down the pub for that precious pint.

There is currently a bus with the nation's children hurtling down a winding road headed for the precipice of reopening and people need to get their heads out of the sand or their arses or wherever they have them and take notice. Demand answers from any politician in your area backing this plan and ask why it is being pushed ahead without proper measures in place. Whatever you do, please direct your frustration not at schools who are doing their best, but at those behind this ludicrous, unsafe plan and with whom the power ultimately lies.

I never make my posts public, as my Facebook page is where I share private things, but this is an occasion where private and public collide and I think this is a message that needs to be heard. Please share if you agree.

Man with broke phone

Newbienoob wrote: »

Kids will still need to be taught remotely, there will be no job losses.

I dont think the teachers have the qualifications to teach remotely, also id say one teacher could record a video teaching a lesson and it could be played for all students at that year. There will probably a list of FAQs that a perant could get, would only need a percentage of teachers 2 years from now.

Loafing Oaf

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Shocking tweet from Minister for Special Education Josepha Madigan suggesting pupils pose no threat of spreading Covid.

Anyone know what exactly she said?

byhookorbycrook

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Anyone know what exactly she said?

She quoted a newspaper article .

byhookorbycrook

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Anyone know what exactly she said?

She quoted a newspaper article .

Icyseanfitz

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Anyone know what exactly she said?

It was something along the lines of "students pose no threat with regards spreading covid-19" I think

Loafing Oaf

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

She quoted a newspaper article .

Oh right this one
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/pupils-pose-no-risk-of-spreading-covid-27q6zfd9l

jimmytwotimes 2013

Man with broke phone wrote: »

I dont think the teachers have the qualifications to teach remotely, also id say one teacher could record a video teaching a lesson and it could be played for all students at that year. There will probably a list of FAQs that a perant could get, would only need a percentage of teachers 2 years from now.

Imagine the pile of corrections

Man with broke phone

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Imagine the pile of corrections

The money saved could go towards the health service or maybe bus drivers, both of which worked through the crisis with very little complaint, true heroes.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Man with broke phone wrote: »

The money saved could go towards the health service or maybe bus drivers, both of which worked through the crisis with very little complaint, true heroes.

Im with you, think its an amazing idea

wirelessdude01

Man with broke phone wrote: »

I dont think the teachers have the qualifications to teach remotely, also id say one teacher could record a video teaching a lesson and it could be played for all students at that year. There will probably a list of FAQs that a perant could get, would only need a percentage of teachers 2 years from now.

So you imagine that a teacher is allocated how many students?

jimmytwotimes 2013

I missed a couple of days here but did we lose a couple of regulars who liked a wind-up?

Metroid diorteM

Can we get bluetooth mics and bluetooth speakers for teachers wearing masks so kids can hear them without the teacher having to shout through the mask?

wirelessdude01

Metroid diorteM wrote: »

Can we get bluetooth mics and bluetooth speakers for teachers wearing masks so kids can hear them without the teacher having to shout through the mask?

Yea they are available but don't be expecting the department or school to pay for them.

downthemiddle

Man with broke phone wrote: »

The money saved could go towards the health service or maybe bus drivers, both of which worked through the crisis with very little complaint, true heroes.

Imagine the money that could be saved if we closed schools altogether. Education is clearly wasted on some anyway.

isup

We've received the "plan" from my kids primary school and preschools. both seem just as it was before they had closed but with addes hand washing. The preschool has a fullbroom of 22 with 2 staff and another staff member that goes between 2 rooms. Im fairly sure I can't send my 3 yr old in because I'm just not happy with it. But I think I have to send my 7 yr old because I know they need it but I think it's a risk that I'm very uncomfortable about having to choose. I think they chose to not close the playgrounds in Kildare/Offaly /laois because eit would send the signal that schools won't be safe if the virus is spreading. It really feels like they arnt thinking about the risks. And are going full steam ahead just because they said they would.

grind gremlin

isup wrote: »

We've received the "plan" from my kids primary school and preschools. both seem just as it was before they had closed but with addes hand washing. The preschool has a fullbroom of 22 with 2 staff and another staff member that goes between 2 rooms. Im fairly sure I can't send my 3 yr old in because I'm just not happy with it. But I think I have to send my 7 yr old because I know they need it but I think it's a risk that I'm very uncomfortable about having to choose. I think they chose to not close the playgrounds in Kildare/Offaly /laois because eit would send the signal that schools won't be safe if the virus is spreading. It really feels like they arnt thinking about the risks. And are going full steam ahead just because they said they would.

Norma Foley’s plan is essentially this. Wash your hands more.... leave space if you can (but if you can’t it’s ok). Carry on as before and it’ll all be grand.

Murple

isup wrote: »

We've received the "plan" from my kids primary school and preschools. both seem just as it was before they had closed but with addes hand washing. The preschool has a fullbroom of 22 with 2 staff and another staff member that goes between 2 rooms. Im fairly sure I can't send my 3 yr old in because I'm just not happy with it. But I think I have to send my 7 yr old because I know they need it but I think it's a risk that I'm very uncomfortable about having to choose. I think they chose to not close the playgrounds in Kildare/Offaly /laois because eit would send the signal that schools won't be safe if the virus is spreading. It really feels like they arnt thinking about the risks. And are going full steam ahead just because they said they would.

Just out of interest, what would you have liked them to include in their plan? What would have put your mind at rest and made you feel more confident about sending them back?

Jinglejangle69

grind gremlin wrote: »

Norma Foley’s plan is essentially this. Wash your hands more.... leave space if you can (but if you can’t it’s ok). Carry on as before and it’ll all be grand.

Like most of the population working?

We have all had to get in with it to earn money to keep the teachers wage intact and other peoples during covid.

Time for a bit of return.

Can't be all take for one section and no return.

I'm going to work tomorrow in high risk areas.

But I accept that's what we have to do.

If we don't life stops and noone eats or lives.

Smacruairi

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Like most of the population working?

Can I ask what measures your employer and workplace has taken? Just so we can apply it to schools, thanks.

grind gremlin

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Like most of the population working?

Just an example for you... at Tesco today my trip to the cashier at the checkout was akin to travelling through the security check at the airport.... staff behind screens (that have increased in size, number and location since lockdown began), a staff member ensuring that no customers are ever within 2 meters of each other, and a little gap under the screen through which I could hold my club card for them to scan.... I was at the till for under 2 minutes. Both the worker and I had a mask on..... so yeah.... exactly like everyone working...

Jinglejangle69

I'm self employed.

I go into different places every day.

I fill out a form.

Wash my hands.

Wear a mask and get on with it.

If people like me don't work teachers don't get paid.

But sure I'll keep working to pay teachers while their off because their scared.

My life isn't as important..

Jinglejangle69

grind gremlin wrote: »

Just an example for you... at Tesco today my trip to the cashier at the checkout was akin to travelling through the security check at the airport.... staff behind screens (that have increased in size, number and location since lockdown began), a staff member ensuring that no customers are ever within 2 meters of each other, and a little gap under the screen through which I could hold my club card for them to scan.... I was at the till for under 2 minutes. Both the worker and I had a mask on..... so yeah.... exactly like everyone working...

Grand.

Maybe it's time teachers and staff went off full pay.

Onto the PUP if thats how much fear they have.

Smacruairi

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Grand.

Maybe it's time teachers and staff went off full pay.

Onto the PUP if thats how much fear they have.

So you have nothing to contribute in terms of procedures as you work from home. Got it. It's about teachers getting paid and you don't like that.you didn't mention kids safety or health at all, just a pop at "scared teachers". Grand, cheers, thanks.

Next.

Jinglejangle69

Smacruairi wrote: »

So you have nothing to contribute in terms of procedures as you work from home. Got it. It's about teachers getting paid and you don't like that.you didn't mention kids safety or health at all, just a pop at "scared teachers". Grand, cheers, thanks.

Next.

I don't work form home.

I work in different places everyday.

I risk getting and bringing the virus home every day.

But I do it and get on with it because life has to go on and if I don't, guess what??

Teachers don't get full pay while not working.

But sure my family isn't as important as theirs.

I'll risk mine while they sit at home.

Jinglejangle69

Smacruairi wrote: »

So you have nothing to contribute in terms of procedures as you work from home. Got it. It's about teachers getting paid and you don't like that.you didn't mention kids safety or health at all, just a pop at "scared teachers". Grand, cheers, thanks.

Next.

I don't work form home.

I work in different places everyday.

I risk getting and bringing the virus home every day.

But I do it and get in with it because life has to go on and if I don't, guess what??

Teachers don't get full pay while not working.

But sure my family isn't as important as theirs.

I'll risk mine while they sit at home.