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How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)
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On a related topic, can I ask about the usual colds that circulate the minute the kids go back to school?
My 3 year old has been back in creche for a month. Now usually there's a litany of bugs that they all catch when they start back to creche, but what with all the handwashing and masks, he's been lurgy free so far. However last Thursday he came down with a bog standard cold. Sneezing, runny nose, no temperature, clearly not Covid. However, like all kids that age (and I know this is kind of gross) they just let the excess phlegm drip down the back of their throat before coughing it up and swallowing. So occasionally, he coughs.
I'm in a bit of a conundrum now. Do I call the GP and ask for a covid test for him? I mean, I'm not a doctor but I would hope as a reasonably intelligent person I could tell the difference between a cold and covid. I don't want to unnecessarily back up the system for a nonsense test and prevent others from getting the quick turnaround they need.
So if we accept it's just a cold, when do I send him back to creche? I kept him out on Friday and today, and he's nearly over it apart from the occasional cough. Tomorrow?
And ultimately the question is for schools. Can you reasonably assess that something is a cold and send your kid back in after a couple of days? If I had to keep my kids at home for two weeks every time they sneezed or their nose ran, they may as well be home schooled for the year.0 -
Parents don't even know that there's anything to inform themselves about!! They see €375,000,000 as a generous stipend to fix the problems. They don't see that there not enough subs to cover absenteeism or reduced class sizes (although I'd like to know how many teachers on the register are not working or have ever worked tbh) and the half of the €75,000,000 pledged for works has in many cases already been given, or because of other issues can't be accessed. This is not being reported in the media. Great that it's being highlighted here but this is not a public enough domain. Direct questions on logistics from parents to schools are being ignored. I don't see any teachers or principals onto Joe Duffy about it now, when a difference could possibly be made on time.
They're working abroad or in other sectors here. They're not just sitting at home paying the teaching council fee for the craic.0 -
I agree with what you say that parents need to shout louder to achieve a change. From speaking to various parents recently Ive realised many have no idea of the ' pack em in strategy' of going back to school which the DOE is going with. They have not familiarised themselves with the plan at all and have no idea what they are in for. It is only when the kids go back to school that these parents will understand the problems and will then complain to the school.
I think schools though should be communicating with parents the issues that their own schools are going to face. I havent heard anything from my kids school since June. Parents need to be informed - If we dont know the issues we cant complain to the relevent authorities.
Its a tough one for schools, interested to hear the parental take. Youre trying to do your best, you're still hoping a diff approach will come out from the dept. If you send a message to parents saying "I don't think it can be done, social distancing just can't be done fully" you'll be accused of throwing in the towel, kids will be taken out of the school which then has an impact on everything as all funds and teacher allocations are based on numbers. If you're the only school saying youre struggling, the reputational damage is quite severe also and that could again impact on numbers. Not saying that's the correct way of thinking but it is a factor in the decision process, especially 3 weeks out time for more changes - 3 Friday circulars left!
Posters saying they have heard absolutely nothing, yeah I agree, you should have heard something, anything about even small changes to the school by now like sanitiser stations or that they're at least looking at timetable or lunch staggering etc. If not, get on to your principal or get your parent association or parent nominee to the board to see what is going on. But you won't hear a school email "we are ****ed", that's just not in the best interests of anyone. We are hoping that anonymous sites like this however afford an insight into the grave misgivings we have.0 -
Defending the government’s handling of the issue, Varadkar said that no one knows how exactly the virus spreads in meat plants.
“Even when you put in a lot of these different measures like the shields and the screen and the masks and visors – one plant in Germany even has its own testing facility – they still had outbreaks. This is a real problem and it’s going to be a continuing problem.”
I'm sure it will the same problem in schools...0 -
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On a related topic, can I ask about the usual colds that circulate the minute the kids go back to school?
My 3 year old has been back in creche for a month. Now usually there's a litany of bugs that they all catch when they start back to creche, but what with all the handwashing and masks, he's been lurgy free so far. However last Thursday he came down with a bog standard cold. Sneezing, runny nose, no temperature, clearly not Covid. However, like all kids that age (and I know this is kind of gross) they just let the excess phlegm drip down the back of their throat before coughing it up and swallowing. So occasionally, he coughs.
I'm in a bit of a conundrum now. Do I call the GP and ask for a covid test for him? I mean, I'm not a doctor but I would hope as a reasonably intelligent person I could tell the difference between a cold and covid. I don't want to unnecessarily back up the system for a nonsense test and prevent others from getting the quick turnaround they need.
So if we accept it's just a cold, when do I send him back to creche? I kept him out on Friday and today, and he's nearly over it apart from the occasional cough. Tomorrow?
And ultimately the question is for schools. Can you reasonably assess that something is a cold and send your kid back in after a couple of days? If I had to keep my kids at home for two weeks every time they sneezed or their nose ran, they may as well be home schooled for the year.
Why are you in a conundrum?
Yes, you need to ring your gp and get a test, and keep him off until you get the results. I had to do the same last week with my two year old. My husband had to stay home from work.
Schools and creches will have to adopt a zero tolerance policy to any sniffle or cough during the year. Otherwise the risk is too great to everyone incase it is covid. As intelligent as you might feel you are, you are not a diagnostic test, and as my doctor said, the symptoms of covid are so wide ranging that it COULD be covid, especially in children.
It will be parents self diagnosing children to avoid the hassle of a test and self isolation til results that will cause the school system to shutdown again. We all have to take an inconvenience hit to keep it open. If my children got sick off someone sent in by their parents, knowing they were sick, I would be livid. Social responsibility is so important right now. It's not a question for schools at all, keeping sick kids out of school is your responsibility as a parent.0 -
On a related topic, can I ask about the usual colds that circulate the minute the kids go back to school?
My 3 year old has been back in creche for a month. Now usually there's a litany of bugs that they all catch when they start back to creche, but what with all the handwashing and masks, he's been lurgy free so far. However last Thursday he came down with a bog standard cold. Sneezing, runny nose, no temperature, clearly not Covid. However, like all kids that age (and I know this is kind of gross) they just let the excess phlegm drip down the back of their throat before coughing it up and swallowing. So occasionally, he coughs.
I'm in a bit of a conundrum now. Do I call the GP and ask for a covid test for him? I mean, I'm not a doctor but I would hope as a reasonably intelligent person I could tell the difference between a cold and covid. I don't want to unnecessarily back up the system for a nonsense test and prevent others from getting the quick turnaround they need.
So if we accept it's just a cold, when do I send him back to creche? I kept him out on Friday and today, and he's nearly over it apart from the occasional cough. Tomorrow?
And ultimately the question is for schools. Can you reasonably assess that something is a cold and send your kid back in after a couple of days? If I had to keep my kids at home for two weeks every time they sneezed or their nose ran, they may as well be home schooled for the year.
My Dad had Covid and we all thought it was a cold.
He woke up with a runny nose and scratchy throat and it seemed like that's all it was. No temperature, cough. He is high risk due to his age and medical conditions so after a few days he rang his GP and they said to not leave the house (he wasn't anyway) just incase. After a week of this cold not improving he lost his sense of smell/taste and started to sweat a lot and then be freezing then roasting again and extreme tiredness. Rang the GP again on Day 10 of symptoms and even though he didn't have a cough(which was required at the time for a test) as he would be a high risk. By this time both myself and my mam had mild symptoms too (headaches that wouldn't go away, tiredness and random chills/too hot) but both of us were still feeling pretty okay. If this was last year I would have easily gone to work feeling like I did.
My Dad got his test results back weeks later (this was back when there was the extreme delays) and it was positive. Even up until then we thought it was a cold as he never had a cough and the fever didn't come until 7 days in!0 -
On a related topic, can I ask about the usual colds that circulate the minute the kids go back to school?
My 3 year old has been back in creche for a month. Now usually there's a litany of bugs that they all catch when they start back to creche, but what with all the handwashing and masks, he's been lurgy free so far. However last Thursday he came down with a bog standard cold. Sneezing, runny nose, no temperature, clearly not Covid. However, like all kids that age (and I know this is kind of gross) they just let the excess phlegm drip down the back of their throat before coughing it up and swallowing. So occasionally, he coughs.
I'm in a bit of a conundrum now. Do I call the GP and ask for a covid test for him? I mean, I'm not a doctor but I would hope as a reasonably intelligent person I could tell the difference between a cold and covid. I don't want to unnecessarily back up the system for a nonsense test and prevent others from getting the quick turnaround they need.
So if we accept it's just a cold, when do I send him back to creche? I kept him out on Friday and today, and he's nearly over it apart from the occasional cough. Tomorrow?
And ultimately the question is for schools. Can you reasonably assess that something is a cold and send your kid back in after a couple of days? If I had to keep my kids at home for two weeks every time they sneezed or their nose ran, they may as well be home schooled for the year.
You should definitely take your child for a test but I am very glad you asked the question because it will be the question that all parents will be asking themselves in the weeks and months ahead.0 -
Schools and creches will have to adopt a zero tolerance policy to any sniffle or cough during the year. Otherwise the risk is too great to everyone incase it is covid. As intelligent as you might feel you are, you are not a diagnostic test, and as my doctor said, the symptoms of covid are so wide ranging that it COULD be covid, especially in children.
Look, I get what you're saying, that covid symptoms are wide ranging. But I didn't think they included sneezing and a runny nose? I'll take another look at the HSE website, and call the doctor today.
That brings up another issue. There isn't a person in the country that doesn't catch a cold between September and March. And in the case of my children, probably three or four times over the winter. Are we honestly saying that every time we sneeze for the next six months we have to book a covid test? We certainly, as a nation, do not have the capacity to do 10 -15 million tests over the next six months. There will have to be some criteria applied to it - and I suspect if your only symptoms are a runny nose and sneezing, you will be ruled out for a test.
But all the same, I won't anticipate what might be decided in the future. I'll let the GP make a call.0 -
My friends child had a sore throat and it was inflamed and didn’t get sent for a test- GP said unless a consistent high temp came she would refer. Another friends child had a sore throat and temp following a summer camp- got tested and was told to isolate until the negative test, I assume if you’re symptomatic and negative it’s ok? Her message told her if a close contact you still continue your isolation.
I have one in play school and know how many snots and coughs they get but from my limited experience above it seems we might have to keep them home two weeks but not get a test unless there’s a temperature0 -
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Well, rang the GP. Runny nose and sneezing are apparently not Covid symptoms, no need to bring him in or for him to take a test. The usual advice, keep him hydrated, keep an eye on him and if a temperature or anything else develops then call back. Otherwise, once the cold passes he can go back into creche. Sensible advice in my opinion.0
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Look, I get what you're saying, that covid symptoms are wide ranging. But I didn't think they included sneezing and a runny nose? I'll take another look at the HSE website, and call the doctor today.
HSE lists runny nose as "sometimes" a symptom and sneezing as not a symptom. ECDC states that a runny nose is present in 60% of cases.0 -
Well, rang the GP. Runny nose and sneezing are apparently not Covid symptoms, no need to bring him in or for him to take a test. The usual advice, keep him hydrated, keep an eye on him and if a temperature or anything else develops then call back. Otherwise, once the cold passes he can go back into creche. Sensible advice in my opinion.
They are not common symptoms but they have been reported with positive covid cases before. It's probably nothing, but I wouldnt have him mixing with any other kids, at least for the next few days.0 -
Look, I get what you're saying, that covid symptoms are wide ranging. But I didn't think they included sneezing and a runny nose? I'll take another look at the HSE website, and call the doctor today.
That brings up another issue. There isn't a person in the country that doesn't catch a cold between September and March. And in the case of my children, probably three or four times over the winter. Are we honestly saying that every time we sneeze for the next six months we have to book a covid test? We certainly, as a nation, do not have the capacity to do 10 -15 million tests over the next six months. There will have to be some criteria applied to it - and I suspect if your only symptoms are a runny nose and sneezing, you will be ruled out for a test.
But all the same, I won't anticipate what might be decided in the future. I'll let the GP make a call.
Didn't you say your child also has a cough (postnasal drip being the cause or not)? Runny nose can be a symptom. You can't ask your three year old about fatigue, or aches and pains or a sore throat. I know if I asked my 4 or 2 year old they'd just say yes if they had a cold.Look, I get what you're saying, that covid symptoms are wide ranging. But I didn't think they included sneezing and a runny nose? I'll take another look at the HSE website, and call the doctor today.
That brings up another issue. There isn't a person in the country that doesn't catch a cold between September and March. And in the case of my children, probably three or four times over the winter. Are we honestly saying that every time we sneeze for the next six months we have to book a covid test? We certainly, as a nation, do not have the capacity to do 10 -15 million tests over the next six months. There will have to be some criteria applied to it - and I suspect if your only symptoms are a runny nose and sneezing, you will be ruled out for a test.
But all the same, I won't anticipate what might be decided in the future. I'll let the GP make a call.
So, for the sake of everyone, we have to err on the side of caution. It will come down to your gp, I know if I had gotten another in the practice he would have fobbed it off, but I don't think a laid back approach is the way to go this year. It is a global pandemic after all. We would all have had to self isolate anyway if he hadn't had a test.
Winter is going to be difficult. We basically had sickness all winter here last year with the kids passing it to each other. I'm hoping the handwashing and disinfecting and masks will some way help to relieve that a bit this winter. Otherwise we will be off work.
I was saying that this week. I'm a teacher, if someone in my class comes to school sick, then everyone in the room with them is a close contact, which means they all have to restrict their movements until a test comes back negative. That means no school for everyone. Including me. I do not understand how schools are expected to stay open.0 -
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wirelessdude01 wrote: »Any teacher and/or principal with a modicum of intelligence will keep well away from the talk radio shows.
Just to remind you of the context of my post:wirelessdude01 wrote: »What I see happening is that we open. Parents that care will quietly find out from their children exactly what is happening at school and then the likes of Liveline will be taking calls from them once the first school case occurs. All will be quiet until then. Then primetime will do a piece and then the perverbial sh1t will start to hit.downthemiddle wrote: »You've told us you have family members teaching in Ireland. Why aren't they taking your advice?
Please see above. I am not advocating for this. Why is it so difficult for people to follow this thread??0 -
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ginoginelli wrote: »They are not common symptoms but they have been reported with positive covid cases before. It's probably nothing, but I wouldnt have him mixing with any other kids, at least for the next few days.
I guess that'll be the challenge. If some parents were to apply those rules consistently it would be very difficult for if they're private sector employees, especially in SME's. Those employees may be on contracts etc. with little job security.
I'm not sure all teachers really appreciate what it's like for parents in those jobs, expecting them to take two weeks off if their child has a sniffle might be unrealistic as things currently stand.0 -
downthemiddle wrote: »So what are the teaching members of your family saying?
It differs. One in an area of higher ses is happy enough, feel like the school management are keeping them informed and are raring to go- virtual teaching was not what they signed up for. Another in a rural boarding school is quite worried and doesn't feel in the loop, doesn't know what to expect at all in a few weeks. One more is playing up their child's autoimmune disorder as a reason that they are at a higher risk but would want to keep all of their outings of the last few months off Facebook imo.
The parents, however, afaik have heard nothing from schools at all.0 -
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It differs. One in an area of higher ses is happy enough, feel like the school management are keeping them informed and are raring to go- virtual teaching was not what they signed up for. Another in a rural boarding school is quite worried and doesn't feel in the loop, doesn't know what to expect at all in a few weeks. One more is playing up their child's autoimmune disorder as a reason that they are at a higher risk but would want to keep all of their outings of the last few months off Facebook imo.
The parents, however, afaik have heard nothing from schools at all.
Can I ask about what they don't feel in the loop? You know my current thoughts on the guidelines and don't want to argue in bad faith, merely adopting the contrary opinion to get at the issue of comms which has been brought up lately.
The guidelines were published for all on the DES website, minister Foley wrote a letter to staff parents and students. What do you feel schools haven't communicated about? (I ask having sent many comms to our parents already and still we are told we aren't communicating enough).0 -
Smacruairi wrote: »Can I ask about what they don't feel in the loop? You know my current thoughts on the guidelines and don't want to argue in bad faith, merely adopting the contrary opinion to get at the issue of comms which has been brought up lately.
The guidelines were published for all on the DES website, minister Foley wrote a letter to staff parents and students. What do you feel schools haven't communicated about? (I ask having sent many comms to our parents already and still we are told we aren't communicating enough).
It wasn't my opinion (apart from the Facebook comment :pac:), it's what I've heard from teachers I know. I've read that too, and without the thread here I wouldn't really know about the under-resourcing that schools already dealing with so it wouldn't mean much I'd say.0 -
mcsean2163 wrote: »I guess that'll be the challenge. If some parents were to apply those rules consistently it would be very difficult for if they're private sector employees, especially in SME's. Those employees may be on contracts etc. with little job security.
I'm not sure all teachers really appreciate what it's like for parents in those jobs, expecting them to take two weeks off if their child has a sniffle might be unrealistic as things currently stand.
To be fair, it's not teachers setting these rules, it's public health advice. I don't know why teachers would be blamed for information from the HSE?
The other thing is that one doesn't exist as a teacher in a vacuum. I'm a wife and a daughter and a parent as well, and so will be subject to the same rules as everyone else. I'll have to stay off work if someone is sent into my child's class in primary school sick and he becomes unwell. Which would have huge repercussions for all the year groups I teach. And I would still have to try work from home, on video to my classes in school, with three kids under 5. It's not just private sector workers who find these conditions challenging.
If I get sick then presumably all the 240 kids I have contact with during the day would also be sent home to self isolate. If I got corona virus they would be home for 2 weeks. And if I was off actually sick with corona virus (as opposed to just self isolating as a precaution) I'm sure id be too unwell to video chat classes.
Again, it's a global pandemic, it's going to be difficult for everyone, and despite media coverage, teachers are not sitting on their arses watching TV while parents struggle to home school. We have the exact same struggles.0 -
https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/10/health/us-coronavirus-monday/index.html
97000 children tested positive for Covid-19 in the US during the last 2 weeks of July.
Infection/incubation periods for those tested likely the 1st half of July, when schools were closed but when there was holiday weekend and multiple public events.
Those numbers seem to fly in the face of kids aren't spreaders dialogue.
The studies to date are limited, Denmark have made a success of a return to school but in a very regimented manner.
Israel returned and then suspended schools on a jump in the R0, and the UK are citing unpublished research in their effort to ensure a fast return to schools.
Returning to school is necessary.
It however needs to be carefully considered, not on the logic of the vast majority of children will be grand!
Rather, how do we protect teachers?
How do we protect the elderly and vulnerable contacts of those students and staff?
Be it as simple as splitting classes and having students do week on/week off of campus v online.
There are lots of options, we need to ensure its done in the safest manner possible.0 -
To be fair, it's not teachers setting these rules, it's public health advice. I don't know why teachers would be blamed for information from the HSE?
The other thing is that one doesn't exist as a teacher in a vacuum. I'm a wife and a daughter and a parent as well, and so will be subject to the same rules as everyone else. I'll have to stay off work if someone is sent into my child's class in primary school sick and he becomes unwell. Which would have huge repercussions for all the year groups I teach. And I would still have to try work from home, on video to my classes in school, with three kids under 5. It's not just private sector workers who find these conditions challenging.
If I get sick then presumably all the 240 kids I have contact with during the day would also be sent home to self isolate. If I got corona virus they would be home for 2 weeks. And if I was off actually sick with corona virus (as opposed to just self isolating as a precaution) I'm sure id be too unwell to video chat classes.
Again, it's a global pandemic, it's going to be difficult for everyone, and despite media coverage, teachers are not sitting on their arses watching TV while parents struggle to home school. We have the exact same struggles.
What you have said above is correct. Teachers with children will face the exact same issues regarding having to stay at home due to displaying symptoms or staying at home with sick children . The only difference is that there are many parents out there employed in the private sector that wont get paid by their employer if they have to stay at home to look after sick children. They also risk losing their jobs. I would fear that these parents may risk sending their children to school with covid symptoms. The government doesnt appear to realise this problem yet.0 -
What you have said above is correct. Teachers with children will face the exact same issues regarding having to stay at home due to displaying symptoms or staying at home with sick children . The only difference is that there are many parents out there employed in the private sector that wont get paid by their employer if they have to stay at home to look after sick children. They also risk losing their jobs. I would fear that these parents may risk sending their children to school with covid symptoms. The government doesnt appear to realise this problem yet.
Totally, which is why schools need to be really strict about refusing to admit sick kids. I could send my children to school sick, affecting 29 other families, who then could experience financial difficulties as a result. Social responsibility from everyone is key. Plus I think the government will have to look at how they support parents financially if they are at home self isolating to the benefit of everyone else.0 -
What you have said above is correct. Teachers with children will face the exact same issues regarding having to stay at home due to displaying symptoms or staying at home with sick children . The only difference is that there are many parents out there employed in the private sector that wont get paid by their employer if they have to stay at home to look after sick children. They also risk losing their jobs. I would fear that these parents may risk sending their children to school with covid symptoms. The government doesnt appear to realise this problem yet.
I don't speak for all teachers but from discussing this exact issue with a relative in the private sector, I agree that there is just as much that goes on there that the public sector doesnt know about and while there are a lot of things that 'should be taken into account' by employers, it often isn't. This will be a huge problem0 -
I note that schools in Scotland resume tomorrow. This is their approach so we will have the guts of three weeks to see how it's working for them before our lot go back.
https://www.gov.scot/binaries/content/documents/govscot/publications/advice-and-guidance/2020/07/coronavirus-covid-19-guidance-preparing-start-new-school-term-august-2020/documents/reopening-schools-guidance-summary-version/reopening-schools-guidance-summary-version/govscot%3Adocument/reopening-schools-guidance-summary-version.pdf0 -
Israel returned and then suspended schools on a jump in the R0, and the UK are citing unpublished research in their effort to ensure a fast return to schools.
I had CNN on in the background during our Zoom staff meeting earlier and saw it flash up that Israel are limiting class sizes now to max 18. Avg size when they tried to reopen was 35. Not sure how they are facilitating this drastic halving of class size but know for sure that they are curtailing the curriculum.0 -
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wirelessdude01 wrote: »I had CNN on in the background during our Zoom staff meeting earlier and saw it flash up that Israel are limiting class sizes now to max 18. Avg size when they tried to reopen was 35. Not sure how they are facilitating this drastic halving of class size but know for sure that they are curtailing the curriculum.
I never thought I'd say this but I am jealous of all your staff meetings. Are you on the management team? How are you at so many meetings? I still havent heard from my principal? We are a huge school and we were past capacity as it was so tbf there would be a huge amount to be trying to figure out but I am getting concerned0
This discussion has been closed.
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