How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

Loafing Oaf

Sammy2012 wrote: »

That could very well be us in a couple of months time!!

Do we have the capacity to educate all kids in classes of 18 or less?

Sammy2012

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Do we have the capacity to educate all kids in classes of 18 or less?

Sorry I meant we could be rowing back on the full opening to more restricted numbers.

F5500

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Do we have the capacity to educate all kids in classes of 18 or less?

DEIS secondary schools have the best shot at reduced class sizes as their classes are generally smaller anyways.

For many schools 30 in a class is common enough, so you'd need twice as many rooms. A big, big ask.

Sammy2012

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

Where there is a suspected case of COVID-19 in a school, the COVID-19 Response Plan Guidance also sets out steps schools should take as follows:
• Bring the person to the designated isolation area available in each school;
• Arrangements to contact parents/guardians in the event of a suspected case in a
pupil/student;
• Facilitate the person remaining in isolation if they cannot go home immediately;
• Supporting the making of arrangements for transport home or if they are too unwell
to go home to contact 999 or 112 to advise it is a COVID-19 suspected case;
• Carrying out an assessment of the incident to determine follow up actions; and
• Arrangements for the appropriate cleaning of the isolation and work areas.

Where there is a suspected or confirmed case of COVID-19 amongst school staff or pupils, schools need to maintain both staff and pupil confidentiality at all times and must
follow the instructions of HSE Public Health.

HSE Public Health will:
• inform any staff/parents or students who come into close contact with a diagnosed case via the contact tracing process;
• contact all relevant persons where a diagnosis of COVID-19 is made; and
• advise on the appropriate action, on a case-by-case basis, that should be taken vis-à-vis the operation of the school.

Okay my bad they are fairly comprehensive. But who isolates for 14 days if there is a confirmed case in the class? All/just the pod the child is part of/just the teacher if they are the confirmed case? Who stays with the suspected case while they are being facilitated?

byhookorbycrook

“Where there is a suspected case of COVID-19 in a school, the COVID-19 Response Plan Guidance also sets out steps schools should take as follows:
• Bring the person to the designated isolation area available in each school;
• Arrangements to contact parents/guardians in the event of a suspected case in a
pupil/student;
• Facilitate the person remaining in isolation if they cannot go home immediately.”

Who brings the child to this room that most schools wouldn’t have ?
Who supervises them?

F5500

Sammy2012 wrote: »

Okay my bad they are fairly comprehensive. But who isolates for 14 days if there is a confirmed case in the class? All/just the pod the child is part of/just the teacher if they are the confirmed case? Who stays with the suspected case while they are being facilitated?

The piece about assessing the incident and determining follow up actions is interesting as well.

Raises as many questions as it answers really.

wirelessdude01

Sammy2012 wrote: »

Who stays with the suspected case while they are being facilitated?

Whatever about secondary but I'm guessing in primary that role this will be thrown at a member of the SET team. SET this year are just gap fillers. The kids they are meant to be working with are being forgotten about by the government.

Sammy2012

F5500 wrote: »

The piece about assessing the incident and determining follow up actions is interesting as well.

Raises as many questions as it answers really.

That was what PBH was trying to get an answer on today. There is no answer it seems.

wirelessdude01

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

“Where there is a suspected case of COVID-19 in a school, the COVID-19 Response Plan Guidance also sets out steps schools should take as follows:
• Bring the person to the designated isolation area available in each school;
• Arrangements to contact parents/guardians in the event of a suspected case in a
pupil/student;
• Facilitate the person remaining in isolation if they cannot go home immediately.”

Who brings the child to this room that most schools wouldn’t have ?
Who supervises them?

I'm guessing SET will be asked to supervise. Everything is being thrown at them.

The quarantine room for us will be a storage closet we have emptied. This room is approx 0.75m by 1.2m with a tiny window. The child will just have to be left in there in their own with the supervising adult sitting outside.

byhookorbycrook

Sammy2012 wrote: »

Okay my bad they are fairly comprehensive. But who isolates for 14 days if there is a confirmed case in the class? All/just the pod the child is part of/just the teacher if they are the confirmed case? Who stays with the suspected case while they are being facilitated?

“Pods” are nonsense . If you have 30 children in a class, they are all “ close contacts .” Anyone who has a primary age child knows that children already sit in what the DES are trying to pass off as a new and safe idea -when in reality , they will be sitting in table groups , as always . And the parents are also aware of how easily tummy bugs, head lice etc. go through a class!

Sammy2012

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

“Pods” are nonsense . If you have 30 children in a class, they are all “ close contacts .” Anyone who has a primary age child knows that children already sit in what the DES are trying to pass off as a new and safe idea -when in reality , they will be sitting in table groups , as always . And the parents are also aware of how easily tummy bugs, head lice etc. go through a class!

Oh stop I know that! The red/blue/yellow table will now be the red/blue/yellow pod!!! So silly. I am a parent of soon to be 2 primary kids but my older one has picked up all of the above in school. As a teacher of 1st and 2nd class I see what winter vomiting bugs/colds/coughs do to attendance figures in Dec, January and Feb. I'm under no illusions that it will be worse this year.

byhookorbycrook

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

I'm guessing SET will be asked to supervise. Everything is being thrown at them.

The quarantine room for us will be a storage closet we have emptied. This room is approx 0.75m by 1.2m with a tiny window. The child will just have to be left in there in their own with the supervising adult sitting outside.

The “ supervising adult” - aka the Special Education Teacher or SNA .
The DES can waffle on about supporting “ the most vulnerable “ children all they like . It seems children most in need of extra support will be the ones to lose out once again .

wirelessdude01

I see face coverings are mandatory now to enter shops and shopping centres from August 10th as announced by MM.

byhookorbycrook

Sammy2012 wrote: »

Oh stop I know that! The red/blue/yellow table will now be the red/blue/yellow pod!!! So silly. I am a parent of soon to be 2 primary kids but my older one has picked up all of the above in school. As a teacher of 1st and 2nd class I see what winter vomiting bugs/colds/coughs do to attendance figures in Dec, January and Feb. I'm under no illusions that it will be worse this year.

And trying to keep “ pods “ in the yard is frankly ridiculous. Children will gravitate towards friends in other classes as well.oh, hang on , there’s a marquee in the yard , 3 classes in the school hall , so no play space.

Blondini

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

“Pods” are nonsense . If you have 30 children in a class, they are all “ close contacts .” Anyone who has a primary age child knows that children already sit in what the DES are trying to pass off as a new and safe idea -when in reality , they will be sitting in table groups , as always . And the parents are also aware of how easily tummy bugs, head lice etc. go through a class!

Agreed. Anyone that works in a school knows this whole thing is a sham. I've worked in 6 different schools over the last 20 years and have been in dozens more in various capacities. These guidelines are not going to work.

Despite my sometimes sneery posts on this thread , I do genuinely feel sorry for parents, who for financial reasons, have to send their children into an environment that goes completey against the current public health guidelines. Completely.

Trust me, the guidelines will not work in any school I've ever been in.

wirelessdude01

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

And trying to keep “ pods “ in the yard is frankly ridiculous. Children will gravitate towards friends in other classes as well.oh, hang on , there’s a marquee in the yard , 3 classes in the school hall , so no play space.

And just imagine a windy day when the marquee goes walkies across the yard and hits a child.

Alrigghtythen

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

I'm guessing SET will be asked to supervise. Everything is being thrown at them.

The quarantine room for us will be a storage closet we have emptied. This room is approx 0.75m by 1.2m with a tiny window. The child will just have to be left in there in their own with the supervising adult sitting outside.

How many children fit in that?

:pac:

https://www.irishtimes.com/polopoly_fs/1.4320919.1596475581!/image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_620/image.jpg




Not much social distancing st the protest
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/asti-seeks-agreement-on-pay-as-state-plans-to-hire-1-000-teachers-1.4320921

wirelessdude01

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

How many children fit in that?

:pac:

Really.

meeeeh

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

I see face coverings are mandatory now to enter shops and shopping centres from August 10th as announced by MM.

Not for kids.

wirelessdude01

meeeeh wrote: »

Not for kids.

At what age does someone stop being a kid?

I'm guessing some shops will enforce for all. A few where I am already are. No mask, no entry. Staff on the door enforcing it.

Charles Babbage

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

And just imagine a windy day when the marquee goes walkies across the yard and hits a child.

a marquee might not be a long term solution, but it might be usable in September and October to give time to demolish a partition or make some other change.

Whatever it takes to get it done.

meeeeh

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

At what age does someone stop being a kid?

I'm guessing some shops will enforce for all. A few where I am already are. No mask, no entry. Staff on the door enforcing it.

13 for masks.

What private business does is kinda irrelevant.

Anyway all I see in this thread is what can't be done. There is no desire from some to see what can be done.

wirelessdude01

meeeeh wrote: »

13 for masks.

What private business does is kinda irrelevant.

Think you can see where I'm going with this.

So the vast majority of secondary going students will have to wear a mask to buy their cans of coke and chicken fillet rolls but not in school.

meeeeh

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Think you can see where I'm going with this.

So the vast majority of secondary going students will have to wear a mask to buy their cans of coke and chicken fillet rolls but not in school.

And in school you will know exactly who was in and where. Shop doesn't have contact details.

Beanybabog

Do you remember back in the early days Mary Lou McDonald’s kids school was shut down and kids sent home, and shortly after Mary Lou got it.... was hers ever connected to the school case or was it a coincidence?

Blondini

meeeeh wrote: »

Anyway all I see in this thread is what can't be done. There is no desire from some to see what can be done.

There is a lot of negatively coming from the people who know the education system, including the limitations of the buildings, inside out. It's just the reality unfortunately.

We, as teachers, are as unsettled as everyone else, but there's no point in sugarcoating it and pretending that the plan is workable.

khalessi

meeeeh wrote: »

And in school you will know exactly who was in and where. Shop doesn't have contact details.

I have been asked for contact details in a few shops and cafes and one restaurant

khalessi

meeeeh wrote: »

13 for masks.

What private business does is kinda irrelevant.

Anyway all I see in this thread is what can't be done. There is no desire from some to see what can be done.

Well if the Department had actually consulted with the teachers on the ground. You would see a lot of could be done.

Smaller classes for social distancing for the first few weeks.
Bring them in 2 and half days per week for first few weeks
hand hygiend and cough etiquette
Masks for teachers and students if they wish
Perspex cubes and masks in every room - one row at the back for immunocompromised children who wished to come to school
Match high risk teachers as best as possible with high risk kids for home liason online teaching or whatever,
Get Department to create proper online platforms and get rte to do similar to BBC for schools
Invest in schools properly
Have a plan at the begiinging of Junwe they had months to work on it

Thats some of what I would have suggested.

Smacruairi

Blondini wrote: »

There is a lot of negatively coming from the people who know the education system, including the limitations of the buildings, inside out. It's just the reality unfortunately.

We, as teachers, are as unsettled as everyone else, but there's no point in sugarcoating it and pretending that the plan is workable.

We put forward suggestions. They were equally as rebuffed and ignored by higher ups. Sucks doesn't it when you have teachers on the ground to help highlight logistics, parents building the spirit and energy and then the govt just throws scraps at the problem and says "do it yourself".

There's the suggestions from teachers above, why do you think the govt won't do ANY of that?

ldy4mxonucwsq6

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Think you can see where I'm going with this.

So the vast majority of secondary going students will have to wear a mask to buy their cans of coke and chicken fillet rolls but not in school.

And secondary school students over 13 will have to wear mask or visor if SD is not possible due to capacity of the classroom

Kids have a choice to go to the shop or bring in their lunch but they'll be required by law to attend school.