How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

ldy4mxonucwsq6

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Finally we agree on something. Government really do need to get their collective heads out of the sand.

The school will be expected to open in about 4 weeks time. The principal refuses to accept that, denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

wirelessdude01

Alden Loose Squid wrote: »

The school will be expected to open in about 4 weeks time. The principal refuses to accept that, denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

Aren't you so clever. Principal is dead right to be covering the bases. I fully expect primary to keep open unless things go very astray but secondary is a different beast. I fully expect that they will have to move to half in, half out model before too long. Better than a full closure.

The Wordress

I think the Department made a bit of Boo Boo with the no social distancing up to 2nd class. Most schools want to keep classes smaller at the Junior end of the school and give the children the best start in their education. Now, a lot of schools have to try to accommodate the social distancing rule for 3rd class up and use their teachers there.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Aren't you so clever. Principal is dead right to be covering the bases. I fully expect primary to keep open unless things go very astray but secondary is a different beast. I fully expect that they will have to move to half in, half out model before too long. Better than a full closure.

So long as the principal isn't leading staff to believe that the school won't be opening and that they'll only be teaching online.

No problem having a contingency plan so long as that's all it is.

Bananaleaf

Redordeadqwwer wrote: »

I think the poster means in the event of a school closure or schools being closed entirely that they are to prepare themselves for online learning. If I'm correct then that's not unreasonable. Anything I do this year will be with a view to transitioning online. I'll have it in the back of my mind tbh.

Agree. If the schools do have to close again and teachers aren't prepared for it, it will be "OMG how did they not learn from the last time to be prepared for this" "Other schools in Europe had to go back to online teaching, how come they didn't expect this"

I said this before on a different thread - we should always be prepared for online learning in the same way we are prepared for a fire with fire drills. There are so many things that can render a school building unfit for purpose:

• A fire
• Burst pipes
• Breakdown of heating system
• Storm damage/red weather alert/snowfall
• Burglary/Vandalism
• Structural damage
• A pandemic or epidemic

Any one of those could have a school building out of action for days or even weeks. It's mad to think we have gone this long without being set up online. It's madder to discard the idea of being ready for online learning and think that we will never need it again at any time in the future, just because we think we are over the worst of this single incident

Leftwaffe

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Aren't you so clever. Principal is dead right to be covering the bases. I fully expect primary to keep open unless things go very astray but secondary is a different beast. I fully expect that they will have to move to half in, half out model before too long. Better than a full closure.

Yeah, I'm speaking from a secondary pov too. I thi k primary might go OK but it is absolutely vital that secondary teachers prep and or up skill for remote learning during this school year.

I'll be shocked, awed and absolutely delighted if we can stay open for the full year. But being a realist, it ain't gonna happen. Common sense is enough to tell you that.

Leftwaffe

Alden Loose Squid wrote: »

So long as the principal isn't leading staff to believe that the school won't be opening and that they'll only be teaching online.

No problem having a contingency plan so long as that's all it is.

I think we need to clarify the original post here before we continue with this. Original poster hasn't stated whether this is a full plan or contingency.

I assumed it was contingency as no principal of sane mind in ROI is telling their teachers to prep for online only come the end of August. Let's get real here.

wirelessdude01

Redordeadqwwer wrote: »

I think we need to clarify the original post here before we continue with this. Original poster hasn't stated whether this is a full plan or contingency.

I assumed it was contingency as no principal of sane mind in ROI is telling their teachers to prep for online only come the end of August. Let's get real here.

They have been told to dual plan, side by side. If school were to be closed in the morning, online has to be up and running by the afternoon. Zero downtime.

Also the theory being that the online plans can be used if and when the word comes to move to the half in, half out model which their principal feels will be the main model after a while.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

They have been told to dual plan, side by side. If school were to be closed in the morning, online has to be up and running by the afternoon. Zero downtime.

Also the theory being that the online plans can be used if and when the word comes to move to the half in, half out model which their principal feels will be the main model after a while.

But they are also making plans to open normally surely?

The preparation for full online is a contingency and not teachers being told to continue down that line. The best case scenario being that the school opens for pupils and not a half in, half out model.

Oranage2

Any thoughts just letting classes 4-6 go back in primary and year 3, 5 and 6 for secondary go back in September?

Plenty of classrooms then for social distancing. I know it's not ideal for primary classes 1-3 but the government could put on a TV show for them as well as their teachers doing some online too. Year 1 and 2 are old enough to learn effectively online.

After a month with no major increases introduce the rest of the classes and years in October.

Then let college students go back mid October.

wirelessdude01

Alden Loose Squid wrote: »

But they are also making plans to open normally surely?

The preparation for full online is a contingency and not teachers being told to continue down that line. The best case scenario being that the school opens for pupils and not a half in, half out model.

What do you think dual planning means or are you just being deliberately obtuse?

eclipsechaser

"Older students should not be requested to wear a facial covering..."

From the Roadmap Document.


I can't understand this. Legally they have to wear a mask for any short public transport journey. Legally they have to wear a mask heading into a shop for a brief period of time.

But simultaneously, I can't even ask my own students to wear a mask while they're with me for 40 minutes. That's an outrageous double standard.

BonsaiKitten

Speaking as a primary teacher I will be surprised if we manage to remain face to face teaching all year. Personally I am just happy to have the first few weeks to get to know the kids - much easier to work with a class online when you have some kind of prior bond - and we'll just see how long we last.

I would hope that as we head into this year, primary teachers are thinking about how they'd handle shifting back to distance learning. I have put together a class website via Google Sites which I plan on using a lot with the kids. If/when we close it will be good to have them familiar with the online hub - even if we don't close, some kids will have to miss large chunks of school and can use info on it to catch up at home.

The Wordress wrote: »

I think the Department made a bit of Boo Boo with the no social distancing up to 2nd class. Most schools want to keep classes smaller at the Junior end of the school and give the children the best start in their education. Now, a lot of schools have to try to accommodate the social distancing rule for 3rd class up and use their teachers there.

I don't quite get what you mean by this. Senior primary classes will have the same amount of teachers as junior (aka one per class), the desks just have to spread out as much as possible.

Oranage2 wrote: »

Any thoughts just letting classes 4-6 go back in primary and year 3, 5 and 6 for secondary go back in September?

Plenty of classrooms then for social distancing. I know it's not ideal for primary classes 1-3 but the government could put on a TV show for them as well as their teachers doing some online too. Year 1 and 2 are old enough to learn effectively online.

I would actually do it the other way around at primary level, send in the youngest and have older classes do distance learning. Older kids would be better able to learn at home and there's a huge amount of learning done in the younger primary years.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

What do you think dual planning means or are you just being deliberately obtuse?

That's not exactly what you said now originally was it.

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

One of my neighbours is a secondary teacher. They continue to be told by their principal to prepare for full online, best case scenario being half in, half out model.

Teachers need to accept that they are going back to work in just a few weeks. No 'what about this' and 'what about that', that time has passed now.

Some do appear to be in complete denial and are finding it hard to accept that the schools are reopening (or that they will remain open).

Given the layout of this country we might see the occasional local closure but you can bet it will have to be deemed essential and will be short as possible too.

There are some counties haven't had a case for weeks, highly unlikely we will see the likes of a nationwide long term closure again any time soon.

We have met the criteria to reopen schools (back in the beginning of May actually). Teachers need to mentally prepare that they will be going back and those that feel they can't have decisions to make.

khalessi

Alden Loose Squid wrote: »

That's not exactly what you said now originally was it.



Teachers need to accept that they are going back to work in just a few weeks. No 'what about this' and 'what about that', that time has passed now.

Some do appear to be in complete denial and are finding it hard to accept that the schools are reopening (or that they will remain open).

Given the layout of this country we might see the occasional local closure but you can bet it will have to be deemed essential and will be short as possible too.

There are some counties haven't had a case for weeks, highly unlikely we will see the likes of a nationwide long term closure again any time soon.

We have met the criteria to reopen schools (back in the beginning of May actually). Teachers need to mentally prepare that they will be going back and those that feel they can't have decisions to make.

Sure when we have you to preach at us we dont need to accept anything. It is a howl that you have a problem with teachers being told to prepare for something that may or may not happen when you would be the first giving out if they were not prepared. What is it to you if we do twice the work?

Could you please show me where a teacher has said we are not going back? Could you please show us where teachers have called for schools to stay closed. Any teacher here wants to go back.

Could you please show me where teachers have called for schools to be open safely. Could you show me where they have been asked to prepare for any eventuality as this never occured befoee and now that we know it can it is better to be ready for it, just in case.

Maybe the idea of teachers prepating for something that may or may not happens so they can provide a good service goes against the teachers are lazy handbook beloved by so many on this thread.

xhomelezz

Alden Loose Squid wrote: »

That's not exactly what you said now originally was it.



Teachers need to accept that they are going back to work in just a few weeks. No 'what about this' and 'what about that', that time has passed now.

Some do appear to be in complete denial and are finding it hard to accept that the schools are reopening (or that they will remain open).

Given the layout of this country we might see the occasional local closure but you can bet it will have to be deemed essential and will be short as possible too.

There are some counties haven't had a case for weeks, highly unlikely we will see the likes of a nationwide long term closure again any time soon.

We have met the criteria to reopen schools (back in the beginning of May actually). Teachers need to mentally prepare that they will be going back and those that feel they can't have decisions to make.

Oh nice one. So all put the blinkers on, switch off the brains, you won't need them on this journey and full speed forward

ldy4mxonucwsq6

khalessi wrote: »

Could you please show me where a teacher has said we are not going back?

Go read the thread, some have stated here categorically that they aren't going back.

Some of the hysterics are laughable at this stage, I mean wasps might fly in through the open window, really?? Begs to question how one might deal with a real issue.

This is happening whether people like it or not, personal decision time for both parents and teachers, nobody is going to issue guidelines for individuals.

It does nobody any favours to be in denial about the fact that schools will open under some form of the current plan and in most cases will remain open. The sooner everyone can get their heads around that the quicker we can all move on to actually getting ready for it.

khalessi

Alden Loose Squid wrote: »

Go read the thread, some have stated here categorically that they aren't going back.

Some of the hysterics are laughable at this stage, I mean wasps might fly in through the open window, really??.

This is happening whether people like it or not, personal decision time for both parents and teachers, nobody is going to issue guidelines for individuals.

It does nobody any favours to be in denial about the fact that schools will open under some form of the current plan and in most cases will remain open. The sooner everyone can get their heads around that the quicker we can all move on to actually getting ready for it.

Stating they are not going back is different to keeping schools closed and the fact that you now resort to giving out about teachers doing extra prep is both farcical and hilarious. It is a pity you cannot spot humour and sarcasm which is what the wasp thing was about. But sure if it is what ya need to make a point and to be a bit braver and less obtuse in your anti teacher narrative -you go girl!!!!

ldy4mxonucwsq6

xhomelezz wrote: »

Oh nice one. So all put the blinkers on, switch off the brains, you won't need them on this journey and full speed forward

Everyone who has had to go out to work throughout all this (and I don't mean working from home) has had to "put the blinkers on" in some way.

You have to overcome your fears and learn to live as relatively normal as possible in order to do your job. It's how you mentally protect yourself while working during a pandemic and all the worries that come with that.

Luckily for teachers, things have improved in the past few months in terms of case numbers and testing/tracing so it will be a much better situation for them once they get back to school.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

khalessi wrote: »

Stating they are not going back is different to keeping schools closed and the fact that you now resort to giving out about teachers doing extra prep is both farcical and hilarious. It is a pity you cannot spot humour and sarcasm which is what the wasp thing was about. But sure if it is what ya need to make a point and to be a bit braver and less obtuse in your anti teacher narrative -you go girl!!!!

It is a first where preparing for something that has happened already and may happen in the future is being in denial

You asked me to show you where a teacher has said "we" are not going back?

Several have.

xhomelezz

Alden Loose Squid wrote: »

Everyone who has had to go out to work throughout all this (and I don't mean working from home) has had to "put the blinkers on" in some way.

You have to overcome your fears and learn to live as relatively normal as possible in order to do your job. It's how you mentally protect yourself while working during a pandemic and all the worries that come with that.

Luckily for teachers, things have improved in the past few months in terms of case numbers and testing/tracing so it will be a much better situation for them once they get back to school.

Keep working all the way through, since this started and can assure you, there was no blinkers on me. You kind of keep belittling things and it doesn't help anyone.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

xhomelezz wrote: »

Keep working all the way through, since this started and can assure you, there was no blinkers on me. You kind of keep belittling things and it doesn't help anyone.

And would you not agree, if you were working outside the home during the past few months, that you have had to overcome certain things mentally so that you could continue to do your job?

That sometimes you were afraid of the risks but you needed to 'put the blinkers on' so that you could keep going?

xhomelezz

Alden Loose Squid wrote: »

And would you not agree, if you were working outside the home during the past few months, that you have had to overcome certain things mentally so that you could continue to do your job?

That sometimes you were afraid of the risks but you needed to 'put the blinkers on' so that you could keep going?

I was in control how to minimise the risks, so had no problems keep working. Now I'm being asked to send kids to environment I have absolutely no control over. And based on government's guidelines for reopening, based on what I can read from teachers, it doesn't look workable at this stage. All in approach won't work. I have no problem send kids in on half in half out scenario, because I'll know safety measures will be possible. In full in scenario, I won't bother to send them in, unless school is gonna come up with something workable. No point to keep pointing out Tusla consequences in your posts, they won't be able to do a s... about it.

grind gremlin

The notion that we can put up to 30 children in a small classroom and expect them to maintain any level of social distance is ridiculous. Children are naturally inquisitive, they touch everything, younger children frequently put objects in their mouth. Filling up our halls and any spare space around the school means that children will have little time outside of their own seat when the poor weather kicks in.
We have multiple students in our classes with learning difficulties / additional needs. Approx 1 in 60 are on the autistic spectrum. 1/10 have dyslexia. (Just a couple of examples) These children frequently need additional support. Any entitlement they had to learning support or resource will be eaten up by the need for the SET team to cover absences. In children with challenging behaviour, this will cause incidents to rise in the classroom.
You could have the best plan in the world to keep your pods / students apart but it is practically impossible to manage this successfully throughout the day. When you work with children you need to be prepared for every possibility. Anyone with classroom experience knows that.
We are well aware that we are all going back in September. We are also well aware of the difficulty implementing the ‘roadmap’.
When cases emerge in schools, and there inevitably will be cases, our large class sizes will again impact on the fallout. If a child with 2 siblings tests positive, there is every chance that over 80 families could be impacted.
Every teacher that is returning with the same thought...... please don’t let it be our school.....
Reopening all schools fully can only lead to a massive increase in cases. Our hospitals will dictate when we all close down again. Once those beds start to fill up it will be back to square one.....

ldy4mxonucwsq6

grind gremlin wrote: »

You could have the best plan in the world to keep your pods / students apart but it is practically impossible to manage this successfully throughout the day. When you work with children you need to be prepared for every possibility.

Exactly, that's the reality.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

xhomelezz wrote: »

I was in control how to minimise the risks, so had no problems keep working. Now I'm being asked to send kids to environment I have absolutely no control over.

Thats real life unfortunately, we can't control everything (even if we have the impression that we can) nor can we control every aspect of the children's day.

We're not exactly throwing them into a fire, there will be minimal disruption for kids because unlike some adults they just get on with it.

downthemiddle

Alden Loose Squid wrote: »

You asked me to show you where a teacher has said "we" are not going back?

Several have.

Several individuals have because of personal circumstances. Are you being disingenuous again Fringey? It must have been a short shift last night or else you have been posting from work.

xhomelezz

Alden Loose Squid wrote: »

Thats real life unfortunately, we can't control everything (even if we have the impression that we can) nor can we control every aspect of the children's day.

We're not exactly throwing them into a fire, there will be minimal disruption for kids because unlike some adults they just get on with it.

After following this thread for a while, I can see good few posters pointing out real issues about reopening schools, handful of muppets who blame teachers for being lazy or posting other utter nonsense, one guy who runs marquees advertising and you being living in some fairytale world with rose tinted glasses. So I guess I'll stay on board with peeps living in reality, while filtering the other noise here.

khalessi

downthemiddle wrote: »

Several individuals have because of personal circumstances. Are you being disingenuous again Fringey? It must have been a short shift last night or else you have been posting from work.

Ahh Fringey knew I menat schools but I love how she now is taking over preparation as meaning not accepting reality. Hilarious.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

downthemiddle wrote: »

Several individuals have because of personal circumstances. Are you being disingenuous again Fringey? It must have been a short shift last night or else you have been posting from work.

Yes they have, glad you saw that coz Khalessi seemed to have missed it and was looking for examples.

Personal decision time, everyone has to choose what they are happy to do, people do it every day.

Some people will choose to send their kids back, others won't. Some teachers will hop back in where they left off others will leave the profession for good.

None are wrong, but they have to decide what they are most comfortable with for themselves. We can't account for all people and all circumstances because we all have different stories.