Are there any credible conspiracy theories?

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120299047#Comment_120299047

So, just nonsense then. Thought so.

realitykeeper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120299098#Comment_120299098

There are 1.5 billion Chinese. I agree with them.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120298056#Comment_120298056

but it wasnt just the US who experienced growth, pretty much ever western economy did... as the globals economies grew., so did the US

so it makes no sense that a world war would only lead to US growth and "to a new golden age of prosperity in the US."

i would actually argue that the reason western economies grew, and continue to grow, is as a result of there being NO world wars.

silliussoddius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120299572#Comment_120299572

The Chinese hive mind?

Hoop66

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120299021#Comment_120299021

"This renders me right and you wrong"

We're dealing with a heavyweight here lads.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120299047#Comment_120299047

Yes, Putin is stealing Ukrainian grain and forcing kids in occupied territories to speak Russian and having fake referendums "because NATO"

That's not a "report" of any kind, it's shrill neo-liberal quackery

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120299047#Comment_120299047

Not to mention the illegal invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan.

It took all the resources of the US 8 years to locate Osama Bin Laden. The US gave an ultimatum to the Afghan government to locate and hand him over in 2 weeks or they would invade.

The coups and coup attempts in Libya and Syria etc. The recognition of break away Kosovo while condemning other break away regions.

We are so indoctrinated with western propaganda that we find it difficult to accept that the west may not always good actors.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120292725#Comment_120292725

Do you still believe Covid came from a pangolin?

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120301105#Comment_120301105

Sorry, your question doesn't make any sense. I have never claimed such a thing. Honestly it seems more like a lazy attempt to deflect from the questions I asked you.

Could you please answer them directly now?

Are the energy department and the FBI are now being discredited?

Why do you believe that these organizations are not part of the conspiracy?

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120301105#Comment_120301105

You cant/wont win - Hes a master of deflecting questions, and demanding answers......

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120301135#Comment_120301135

Time to go ....................... 🙄

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120301235#Comment_120301235

Weird. I answered the question directly and concisely while the person you are leaping in to defend dodged my questions entirely.

But you accuse me of deflecting?

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120301235#Comment_120301235

There are 109 mentions of pangolins on boards.ie, most in the covid forums unsurprisingly. none of them posted by King Mob. SafeSurfer is asking King Mob to defend something they never said. Do you think that is reasonable?

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120301135#Comment_120301135

I’m sorry your questions don’t make any sense. I never claimed that the FBI or energy department are being discredited.

Are organisations people now?

Did you not consistently argue that Covid had a zoonotic origin?

Maybe it was someone else entirely. If so I apologise.

growleaves

There was a long-lasting world depression after the Napoleonic wars. All those Charles Dickens novels about freezing orphans and penniless thieves were based on Dickens' impressions from his early life.

There's no knowing what infrastructure will be destroyed in a world war. If you can manage to stay standing while other countries destroy themselves, like US in two world wars and Britain during the Thirty Years War, then you might have a big advantage afterwards.

Lots of if and buts - impossible to predict imo.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120301607#Comment_120301607

You claimed:

The conspiracy was the discrediting of anyone who even speculated that it was a lab leak 

But now, you are claiming that this only applies to individuals and that the FBI is not being discredited.

So why aren't they being discredited?

Why were they not part of the conspiracy?

And no, I did not consistently argue that covid came from pangolins.

I consistently argued that the most likely origin was zoonotic, and that there was no evidence that the virus was created in a lab. That's still the case.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120301682#Comment_120301682

Even speculation that the virus was the result of a lab leak was censored.

Are you claiming that there was not a concerted effort to discredit the theory that the origins of the Covid were the result of a lab leak?

And your evidence that it was zoonotic is?

robinph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120301751#Comment_120301751

When you say "lab leak" do you actually mean man made?

Something escaping from a lab isn't the counter position to it being zoonotic in origin.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120301751#Comment_120301751

Ok. You're still not answering my questions though.

You believe that speculation that the virus leaked from a lab was censored.

Yet the FBI is now speculating this.

Do you understand how this is a contradiction?

If speculation was censored, why was the FBI not censored or discredited?

I don't believe that there was a concerted effort to discredit the theory, because when I ask questions about this effort I get similar dodging and avoiding like you are engaging in now. I have not seen any evidence to support such an idea.

The evidence for the zoonotic origin has been posted ad nauseum on the covid thread and it's easily found on google.

But that is off topic as I'm not discussing that.

The Nal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120301751#Comment_120301751

Theres a difference between a lab leak, a lab leak with intent and man made

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120301098#Comment_120301098

George Bush, a leader from another party 20 years ago, chose to go into Afghanistan and invade Iraq. History reductionists treat countries like a personality or good/evil cartoon villains, rather than a complex sequence of different administrations. It's the equivalent of lambasting the current German PM from supporting Ukraine because a predecessor in the past invaded Ukraine. It's that level.

Yes the US agencies did take a long time to find Bin Laden. Indeed the Bush admin gave the ultimatum to the Taliban, after which they invaded Afghanistan.

There was no "coup" attempt in Libya, the UN straight up voted to support the uprising against a dictator (a vote which wasn't vetoed by Russia or China).

Your points are cookie cutter facsimiles of stuff we see from far left or far right figures or conspiracy theorists like Alex Jones. People who have a tendency to fall for silly conspiracy theories often share the same black/white thinking your post is demonstrating.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120301801#Comment_120301801

That's the conflation we're going to see a lot. Conspiracy theorists are going to take the FBI's statement as agreement with all of these things even when it says no such thing.

Likewise they are going to avoid and ignore the things conspiracy theorists were claiming about the virus, such as claims that the virus was a man made bioweapon or was created to sell vaccines.

Such claims didn't need a concerted effort to be discredited. They earned that all by themselves.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120301806#Comment_120301806

https://youtu.be/R4DRXwx8bGs

You are absolutely right. The NATO attack on Libya had nothing to do with regime change or supporting one side in a CIA backed civil war. Nothing at all.

Yeah, the “no fly zone” where NATO attacked infantry.

Interestingly one can no longer embed the video of Hilary Clinton’s reaction to the death of Gadaffi. “ We came, we saw, he died”.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120301842#Comment_120301842

The conflation has been from those dismissing anything but the official narrative.

Conflating believing that the pandemic was as a result of a lab leak to believing it was a NWO attempt at population control.

Vaccine hesitancy being conflated with Bill Gates trying to hack your brain.

It is just a means of dismissing any scepticism of the official narrative by smearing everyone as fringe, Tin foil hat wearers.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120301898#Comment_120301898

Gaddafi attacked his own people when they rose up against him, the UN passed a resolution to use force to prevent that. The Arab league, of 22 nations, supported it. As mentioned China and Russia didn't vote against it.

The method used was a no-fly zone, it was to free the skies to attack Gadaffi's military ground targets. There was no secret about this, that was it's purpose. It received criticism because it went on much longer than expected and had some mission creep (they had to help rebels on the ground at the end for the final push)

The whole time this was occurring Gaddafi's forces and his hired mercenaries were killing his own people and shelling his own towns and cities.

With hindsight, multiple politicians have said it might not have been the best approach, but of course there's no way of knowing because conversely it could have been worse (e.g. like Syria).

Getting off the main topic, but indeed many conspiracy theorists share a similar vein of history narratives that leave out large amounts of context/nuance

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120301951#Comment_120301951

Ok. But you've avoided my question again.

It's hard to tell you apart from "the fringe ton foil hatters" when you are similarly unable to elaborate or explain your conspiracy theory in a rational way.

People on this forum (and probably this thread) have claimed that the virus was artificially created as part of some giant global plot.

These are the people who are being discredited (by their own beliefs).

People who were speculating that the virus might have been a result of a lab leak (and nothing more) were not discredited.

If they were, then the FBI would be in the process of being discredited or they wouldn't have said what they did. This is the fundamental issue with your conspiracy theory. The FBI's stance is a very large indication that it's not true.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120301954#Comment_120301954

Don’t forget the NATO members forces on the ground aiding one side in a civil war. Yet you say it wasn’t about regime change.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120301974#Comment_120301974

Don’t forget the NATO members forces on the ground aiding one side in a civil war.

In my post.

Yet you say it wasn’t about regime change.

I didn't write this.

SafeSurfer

People who speculated that the pandemic was the result of a leak from the lab in Wuhan were dismissed as conspiracy theorists.

The speculation of the lab leak being the origin of the pandemic was censored and given warnings where it was allowed to appear.

Do you deny that?

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120301951#Comment_120301951

what was the official narrative on the source of covid? i dont remember one. even now government agencies cant agree.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120302029#Comment_120302029

The official narrative was that it was zoonotic in origin and speculation that it was the repot a lab leak was wrong and dangerous.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120302053#Comment_120302053

There's no such thing as an "official narrative". I've noticed that individuals who use this term often rely heavily on narratives themselves, hence the projection.

It is widely believed to be zoonotic in nature, but scientists and experts also said that lab leak as origin couldn't be ruled out.

There is no credible evidence for the third theory, that it was deliberately created in a lab, i.e. man-made.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120302053#Comment_120302053

the prevailing opinion was that it was zoonotic in origin and that has not changed. the evidence points that way. the wrong and dangerous opinion was that it was designed by the chinese and deliberately released. there was no (and still isn't) any evidence to support that. It was spread by the usual malcontents to cause fear.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120302023#Comment_120302023

You said there was no coup attempt in Libya. Regime change was actively supported.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120302062#Comment_120302062

The mention of the lab leak theory was dismissed and labelled dangerous.

There is an attempt now to conflate lab leak theory with deliberate release of an engineered bio weapon.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120302071#Comment_120302071

we have different recollections. it was the mention of a deliberate release that was labelled dangerous. because it was.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120302078#Comment_120302078

Yes. We definitely have different recollections.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120302028#Comment_120302028

Were they? You continually repeat this claim, and yet provide zero evidence to support the contention that merely for speculating it was the result of a lab leak of a naturally originated virus they were dismissed as conspiracy theorists.

On the possibility of a lab leak:

"That possibility certainly exists, and I am totally in favour of a full investigation of whether that could have happened," Anthony Fauci, President Biden's chief medical adviser, told a US Senate committee hearing in May 2021.

The possibility was reported on by in 2020 eg the Washington Post. It was not censored.

The claims in 2020 were given warnings on social media because it was based on speculation. The best available scientific evidence at the time was that it was natural in origin. Do you see the difference?

sydthebeat

why cant it be both zoonotic and lab leaked?

are people who claim it was lab leaked also claiming it was man made?

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120302099#Comment_120302099

Typically they are dog whistling that implication yes. Lab leak means man made.

It ain't necessarily so though.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120302089#Comment_120302089

Were all theories on the origin of Covid not based on speculation?

Yet some were promoted and others were removed entirely or given warnings.

Do you see the difference?

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120302113#Comment_120302113

No, they were based on analysis of the virus indicating probable natural origin. At the time 'lab leak' was fairly synonymous also to mean man made.

Plus there is a difference between speculating on it and couching it in those terms and declaring IT WAS A LAB LEAK.

Noted that you're unable to support your claim that people who speculated on the possibility of a lab leak of a naturally originating virus were labelled conspiracy theorists merely for that.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120302065#Comment_120302065

It wasn't a "coup", it was an uprising by the Libyan people against Gaddafi, an unelected dictator. He had tanks and bombs, they didn't. After it happened, the UN voted to support them.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120302100#Comment_120302100

I don’t believe this to be the case. In my opinion a lab leak origin does not mean that it was engineered although there does seem to be some missing links from the closest naturally occurring virus to Covid 19.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120302125#Comment_120302125

Who armed and funded the rebels seeking to overthrow the Libyan government?

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120302138#Comment_120302138

They were the Libyan people, the UN supported them militarily, against a dictator who was at war with them.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120302163#Comment_120302163

And the other people in the civil war were not the Libyan people? I see.

No no fly zone in the second Libyan civil war in which more people were killed. That’s interesting.

How about in Yemen where NATO countries are supplying weapons to kill the rebels. Are those rebels not Yemeni people or are they just not on the side the west wants to win.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120302227#Comment_120302227

And the other people in the civil war were not the Libyan people? I see.

It was an uprising. The country is complex and tribal, Gaddafi had given his loyalists many of the key spots, and he had heavy control of the military and sprawling security apparatus.

When the people protested against Gaddafi's rule, 40 years of it, he had his forces violently suppress them. It basically turned into Gaddafi loyalists vs the protesters, unfortunately his "side" had most of the weapons.

Prior to the Arab Spring, Gaddafi had actually formed closer ties to the West, especially the US.

That obviously changed when pictures starting coming through of his forces brutally killing people. Naturally the world sided with the protesters. The UN passed a resolution to protect them from the skies via NATO. Only later did that develop (as mentioned) into more direct support for those against Gaddafi.

Some people don't like context though, they just try to paint all these things as "1960's CIA COUP"

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120302297#Comment_120302297

I for one love context. I also understand that Libya is, as you say “complex”. Yemen is complex but the west don’t choose to back the rebels against a regime condemned for torture, they actively arm and support them. As they have armed and supported despicable regimes against their own people for decades as long as their interests aligned.

The west has been no stranger to supporting corrupt, despotic regimes against their own people as long as it served western interests. Context doesn’t change that fact.

sydthebeat

"the west"

Ah Shure a great bunch of lads

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120302394#Comment_120302394

As mentioned it's clear you see a country, not the administration, but an entire country as "bad", and your posts demonstrate how you cherry-pick and reframe history to serve that narrative. When someone has that kind of belief, it's impossible for them to be objective.

Your fringe world view is very similar to that of conspiracy theorists who think the same way. They hold the belief that a particular country is to blame for most of their fictitious conspiracy theories. They assume it's responsible and work backwards to create narratives whereby that country is always responsible somehow.